RangersFan
Member
kind of find it alarming how people keep saying how he is from china or taiwan despite it being well known that he's american. i guess asians will always be a perpetual foreigner...
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Ben & Jerry's drops fortune cookies from 'Lin-Sanity'
- Thread starter MilesWebber
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If an american went to China, and a had a hamburger named after him/her, nobody would give a shit.
teruterubozu
Member
Hamburgers aren't from Hamburg, Germany?
Count Dookkake
Member
That's not analogous to this situation.
You don't have't to establish any such thing. The point is not did he mean this in a racist way or not, the point is to try to ensure literature or language is provided in such a way that such a question isn't needed in the first place.
If there is a high probability that a certain phrase or sentence (etc) could be perceived as racist or offensive to many, that in itself is enough reason not to use it, especially when there are a million and one alternatives. It's about compassion and tact, some people need to learn it. I'm not even Chinese but I find the headline of that article to be either racist or in extremely bad taste. Worthy of lambasting either way.
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The Everyman
did he go to school in taiwan or something? i pulled that from a SI or some other sports mag i was reading at the dentist
edit: correction, i remember a reporter visiting a school in taiwan where i was given the impression that he was an alumni there.
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The Everyman
oh lord, or some of us just heard otherwise drama queen
Great post, will sadly be ignored by clueless people whining about "political correctness."
EatinOlives
Member
Please grow a brain. Nowhere did i say that I "lost my ability" to be racist. You have to make some pretty gigantic leaps in logic to come up with that half-brained conclusion.
What I'm talking about is the fact that completely random words are now so "racially charged" that people get offended over things that aren't even meant to be offensive in the first place. "Chink in the armor", like a whole lot of people in this topic have said, is a completely racially neutral phrase that doesn't in any way intend to offend. It's exactly about intent.
A lot of the things people are saying in this topic are exactly reflective of the fact that the US society has become far too obsessed with being "PC". "DON'T EVEN SAY 'CHINK IN THE ARMOR' WITH A CHINESE PERSON IN THE ROOM OMG ARE YOU INSANE?!?" <-That there is the sign of a culture obsessed with being PC.
I'm not saying I should have the right to march around Chinatown showing "CHINK!" at the top of my lungs just because it has a non-offensive meaning. I'm saying it's absolutely stupid to take offense at words that come up in everyday language with zero intent of it being racially charged.
But I don't expect very many to agree with that. If you're part of the PC-obsessed culture you're not going to see what's wrong with it.
Its amazing that people cant see that this is racist. No theres nothing inherently racist about fortune cookies but if you cant see anything wrong with the fact that they chose lin to suddenly include 'cultural' flavors then thats your problem. Hes just as american as any one else.
Jerry Garcia - Cherry Ice Cream with Cherries & Fudge Flakes
Jimmy Fallon -Vanilla Bean Ice Cream with a Salty Caramel Swirl & Fudge Covered Potato Chip Clusters
Stephen Colbert - Vanilla Ice Cream with Fudge Covered Waffle Cone Pieces & a Caramel Swirl
Jeremy Lin - Herp derp fortune cookies cuz hes asian getit?!?!!?
Jerry Garcia - Cherry Ice Cream with Cherries & Fudge Flakes
Jimmy Fallon -Vanilla Bean Ice Cream with a Salty Caramel Swirl & Fudge Covered Potato Chip Clusters
Stephen Colbert - Vanilla Ice Cream with Fudge Covered Waffle Cone Pieces & a Caramel Swirl
Jeremy Lin - Herp derp fortune cookies cuz hes asian getit?!?!!?
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
If the phrase isn't actually referring to his being Taiwanese - and in the context that it's in, it's clearly not - then why should anybody take racial offense to it? Or, more importantly, why should a writer cater to a group that is unwilling to read things in their proper context? What you're advocating is a form of de facto censorship, and it's highly troubling to me as a writer and appreciator of writing/language. Yes, there are other phrases that one can use, but THAT phrase is a perfectly good one, as well, and there's nothing objectively wrong with its use in the context.
Saying that you shouldn't use something because some people MIGHT take racial offense to it, despite it demonstrably having nothing to do with race, is just another way of pandering to a lowest common denominator, which I am opposed to in all forms. If somebody is unwilling to meet you halfway and instead chooses to look to take offense in irrational contexts, then that's their problem.
Edit: EatinOlives has it right. The very fact that anybody would even notice, let alone take offense to, the use of "chink in the armor" with regard to an Asian person in a context where the person's race/national heritage clearly has nothing to do with anything, is a sign that people in this culture aren't PC out of politeness or consideration; they're PC to the point where if something could even POSSIBLY be read in a racial way, then it is therefore insensitive. Not only is that completely irrational, it's downright noxious.
Deified Data
Banned
Stupid flavor is stupid - like giving a black athlete a flavor based around watermelon or fried chicken, asking for trouble. Also: people getting offended by it are being silly and oversensitive. So, congratulations! You're all in the wrong.
But that's just it, you have no idea if it was meant in a racial manner or not. You're just assuming it. I'd argue the writer had the intention and knew full well of it's play on words, again an assumption. I just can't fathom he'd be that stupid as to not see the reference. Point is, readers can't know which it is, so it's best not to use it.
There's no "might" about it. You have to be relatively dense not to realise a good portion of people would take offence to that.
nah i think they were actually created in kentucky
Are you implying Asians are weak?
As someone who for many years did not know chink was anything other than part of the phrase "chink in the armor", I think people should be more understanding. Yes, if you use a racist word that has no other common meaning, then you can't say it was an accident. Chink in the armor on the other hand is widely used, and if that's the only thing people know of when they hear the word chink I would consider that a good thing. Not something to be mocked as being ignorant.
Racial insults being universally known is not something we should want.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Fortune cookies are from California.
Anyway, that was a dumb fucking move by Ben and Jerrys. Then again, Ben and Jerrys can have a Hitler themed icecream, and I'd let it slide. That ice cream is so good.
Anyway, that was a dumb fucking move by Ben and Jerrys. Then again, Ben and Jerrys can have a Hitler themed icecream, and I'd let it slide. That ice cream is so good.
PigSpeakers
Member
Fried chicken ice cream sounds sort of good, actually.
SteveWinwood
Member
People are taking offense that it was present in a headline for a website that is known for making puns and jokes in it's story headers. If the team were the knights or something the joke would be oh the armor, it has a chink in it, and not have anything to do with race. But the joke here is that chink is a racial slur and he is of asian descent. Like, thats the "joke". There is intent, they aren't using it just as a normal phrase, unless they're are completely changing the way they do sports headlines (which I'm pretty sure they aren't, or didn't for that one night).
Vire
Member
Fuck yes, give it to me.
EatinOlives
Member
I'm having a really hard time believing that an ESPN writer was using that word intentionally as a play on words with the meaning that is racially offensive.
But that's just me. If it turns out that he did indeed use it as a play on words then yes I completely agree with you.
Count Dookkake
Member
It was clearly an intentional pun. In some contexts, a minor racist joke is acceptable, but not in a headline of an organization that wishes to appear professional.
SteveWinwood
Member
I don't have a hard time believing it at all given that their headlines previously are usually dumb jokes.
This.
Deified Data
Banned
Fried chicken, waffles, vanilla ice cream. Breakfast of champions. Would make an epic ice cream flavor.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Maybe - *gasp* - the writer didn't even think about the race of the person that he was using the term to refer to?
Again, why should I give a shit what people will take offense to if they have literally no rational reason to take offense to it? THEY'RE the ones turning something that has an inherently non-racial meaning and construing it as something racial, not me. "Chink in the armor" is naturally neutral, which means that our assumption of a lack of racial intent assumes fewer things than yours does.
Edit: I'm not a sports fan, so hey, if you guys think that there's a good reason to believe that "chink" was referring to his being Asian, you might be right. I'm arguing more on general principle, anyway.
The editor himself said it was not intentional, that he'd used the phrase a hundred times before and thought nothing of it.
So now not only is he racist, but a liar as well apparently.
"Chink in the armor" is not that commonly used a phrase these days, and combined with Lin's Asianness as a much-emphasized point of discussion, your utter conviction that this couldn't have possibly been deliberate is reaaaaaaallllllly stretching.
SteveWinwood
Member
I'm assuming it is, because espn more often than not have dumb puns in their headlines. If you take the racial joke out of it, there is no joke to be found.
Kettch said:
A lot of people would say a lot of things to get their jobs back if they had been fired for something stupid.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Honest question, can you think of a stereotype that could possibly offend American white people? A fried chicken ice cream would piss people off in America, much less China.
Watermelon ice cream makes way more sense, by the way. Both are stupid stereotypes because everybody in the South eats fried chicken and watermelon.
Count Dookkake
Member
Probably.
As someone with a bit of experience with this subject, I can not believe this guy was not aware of the pun. Of course he will backpedal when trouble arises.
If you're a professional writer for such a prestigious organisation, one with such international reach, it sort of comes with the territory. Otherwise you move on and write for a (personal) blog or some lesser outlet of some kind.
Unfortunately (or fortunately), journalistic integrity, tact and common sense are larger factors the further up the professional chain you climb.
This is where I chime in: "And so is Jeremy."
I actually think that was your point. That it wasn't racist because it's not Chinese.
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The Everyman
they're stupid stereotypes just like every other stereotype
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Chink in the armor is quite common, at least in my experience. I use it, and I've heard others use it.
I stand by the assertion that "chink in the armor" is a racially neutral term in its de facto state, and if you want to prove racism by it, the onus is on YOU, the person choosing to take offense to it.
nib95: I know that it comes with the territory. My point is that it SHOULDN'T, that we have a culture that is obsessed with sensitivity at the expense of good sense and critical thinking. As I said, I'm not a sports fan, so the Count may be right that the word "chink" was used in an intentionally racial way in this instance. As I said, I'm arguing about the grand principle that one should be able to say that Jeremy Lin was a chink in his team's armor if he played like shit, and that there's nothing racial at all about that sentence in its neutral state.
They're only found in America. They're unfamiliar to people in China/Taiwan.
But nobody is actually arguing this.
SteveWinwood
Member
No one is saying it isn't.
I gave you my reasoning on it above.
LOL. If only all racists could hide behind this right? Can you prove I meant it in a racist way?! Huh can you? You chink! In my armour!
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The thing is, though, that many people are not making the argument on the basis that the headline is from a website that always uses bad puns in its headlines, which is somewhat reasonable. They're arguing that using "chink in the armor" with regard to an Asian person is inherently insensitive, which is what I take issue with.
SteveWinwood: I'm not arguing with you anymore; I've already conceded that in this particular instance, the writer might have meant it racially.
nib95: I'm done. I remember you now from that thread on Dawkins calling out that elevator girl, and between that and this, I can safely say that I don't think that we have anything to discuss with regard to issues like these.
vas_a_morir
Banned
No, I was just saying that it is a lazy choice! lol
Are you Asian?
Count Dookkake
Member
Irrelevant.
vas_a_morir
Banned
RACIST.
SteveWinwood
Member
Nevermind, you edited.
Vire
Member
Yes it is, however used in the context of Jeremy Lin, it becomes something questionably racist.
Many times. It's a very common phrase in sports.
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