-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
- Start date
- Status
Zoe
Member
Please read everything rather than selectively quoting.
And you're acting like the only option for someone who lives in an nice community to be out at night in the rain is if they're exercising and nothing else. If they do anything outside of that they're being suspicious. I live in what you would describe as a nice community, and I can effectively say what you're spewing is complete bullshit.
soundahfekz
Member
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Also he should've been wearing a reflective sign saying "Non-Criminal, Not-Selling Drugs, Non- Gang Affliliated"
The fault in your line of reasoning is easy to poke holes through. What if the person didn't know it was going to rain? What if the person simply got lost? What if it was a white person in the rain on their way home? What if he like to walk in the rain? Simply engaging the person in dialogue without a gun could have easily ended the situation without incident.
I think the major issue is that you think Zimmerman profiling a man walking at night who is not wearing bright colours/reflective clothing (because that's what it comes down to - as his hood was down until he noticed Zimmerman).
That, for example, puts me in trouble in my neighborhood - as it would be justified for someone to call the cops on me whenever I walk to the McDonald's at night, or walk someone to the bush stop/walk home from the bus stop - because I am wearing dark clothing at night.
I don't really have much in reflective or bright clothing.
Zoe
Member
I'm saying from my experiences in the environments that I've lived in and the times we live in, it's not unthinkable to find someone walking alone at night to be suspicious.
She's saying that when living in a nice community the only reason why one would go out at night in the rain is if they're exercising, and being so, they should wear reflective equipment. Even with separating this from the actual story, I can say that this statement is full of shit.
I guess in the 21 years of my life that I've lived in a nice neighborhood I never should've gone out after 9pm because, you know, when I walk back home I look reasonably suspicious and may be fatally shot.
soundahfekz
Member
No man, then they would KNOW he's a Criminal Selling drugs, Gang affiliated in disguise!
So I wonder what the 13 year-old witness was wearing, out at night, and whether or not he could be construed as suspicious.
Maybe it's just because I don't drive and live in Washington, but--seriously, people go outside in the rain to do things all the time. I've walked to get groceries after dark, and bumped into others doing the same. It's not a rare thing.
Maybe it's just because I don't drive and live in Washington, but--seriously, people go outside in the rain to do things all the time. I've walked to get groceries after dark, and bumped into others doing the same. It's not a rare thing.
Reallink
Member
Yes I have, and I was under the impression police grade tasers are often shaped and molded to look and feel very similar to their sidearms:
soundahfekz
Member
Dahellisdat
Member
Actually, wearing reflective clothing in the dark makes you more visible to moving vehicles and thus less likely to be struck by one.
And he would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling kids and their stupid dog!
The only alternative I can propose is that all black people must go out wearing clothes deemed not suspicious by white folks like myself. Khaki's, a buttoned up shirt and a sweater vest. Basically look like Bill Cosby.
Yes I have, and I was under the impression police grade tasers are often shaped and molded to look and feel very similar to their sidearms:
And I guess in a firefight a police officer at one point probably accidentally took out his taser to shoot a criminal rather than his gun.
-___________-
That's not the point, the point is that exercise isn't the only option one may have to go out in the rain at night.
Zoe
Member
I never disputed that. I said almost everything he did after he started talking to the 911 operator was wrong.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Naw, we all wear Wayne Brady masks.
CrazyDogg77
Member
You're missing the point.
soundahfekz
Member
You also indirectly justified him profiling the teen as suspicious, based on the neighborhood he was in, and the type of clothing he was wearing. You went on to suggest people wear bright, reflective clothing at night to avoid looking suspicious and thus, being shot down by a random wannabe neighborhood watch captain.
How you even got that far with your rationale before your thought process slammed on the brakes is beyond me.
Reallink
Member
Not really sure what you're implying, but yes, I'm sure it has happened. Obviously you wouldn't hear about it unless the officer died as a direct result of the mistake, but it seems likely it has happened on several occasions.
I truly fear for American police forces then. That someone would be that incompetent to not know their gun from their taser blows my mind, and either shows that police officers in the US are in desperate need of retraining or worse.
soundahfekz
Member
At some point man you just have to know what's plausible to yourself and anyone else not looking to defend criminals by extreme reasonable doubt.
I really don't want to take attention away from this case, but we all know that Police officers get lighter sentences, if any, compared to ordinary citizens. If there is ANY doubt in a cops guilt, he will be given the lesser sentence.
Reallink
Member
Yes, and as community watch, "profiling" suspicious individuals is kind of why he's out there wasting his time in the first place. Emphasis suspicious individual--not race, sex, age, or anything else. The details of the person don't matter, only that it's someone out on a rainy night in Hoodie looking around at houses. That would fit anybody's profile if they were placed in Zimmerman's shoes. The issue is not that he "profiled", it's how he chose to act on it. The racism camp wants to put the focus on profiling cause the teen happened to be black, but the reality is (if Zimmerman's 911 claims are accurate and truthful) Trayvon's actions/dress/mannerisms would be construed as suspicious regardless of his color.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Zoe not you too!
Given the shitty situations they are in on a daily basis, black or white, they should be afforded that luxury. Everyone makes mistakes on their jobs, but not most of us can be arrested and lose everything we have at our work by a shitty split second decision, not to mention it can be life or death situations. They should only get heavier trouble if you can outright prove malice, motive and guilt.
Also if they arrest this guy, will the case hold up in court? Is there sufficient evidence to prove murder or manslaughter? Or can the guys self defense case hold up? (I haven't been following the details)
soundahfekz
Member
Might as well not waste your time quoting me, you're practically on ignore as far as responding to your drivel goes
soundahfekz
Member
Fuck that. You uphold the law so you know it better than anyone else. Most people's 'mistakes' don't result in the bullet in the back of someone's head while cuffed.
I understand the desire to turn this into a cop argument thread, but I'm letting you know in advance I won't be participating in shitting up this thread with irrelevant arguments not pertaining to the matter at hand.
Edit: double most, my bad
With all due respect, please, please take some time to read up on this case before posting an opinion. Check the OP, google, or any of the major news network sites to get caught up on what's going on.
Dahellisdat
Member
I think you missed Zoe's point that there can be general expectation of what kind of dress is commonly seen on people in a given place at night in the rain. Is it that absurd to find it suspicious if you see something that doesn't fit the criteria that you are used to seeing?
If you have absurd criteria, then yes, yes it is.
soundahfekz
Member
You can find anything in the world suspicious if you choose to. It's what you do AFTER you've determined something suspicious that defines your character.
Reallink
Member
I was just trying to explain why he was out there in the first place. It doesn't matter whether it's self appointed, officially sanctioned, or anything else. In his mind, he was the CW Captain, and that is why the situation played out.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
should be pretty open and shut. The man isnt a police officer so he had no right or authority to ask the kid to stop , ask him anything about what he was doing...nothing. Why would a 17 year old teenager stop and talk to some grown man he doesn't know? To be honest i woulda got shot too, cause i would've blown that guy off cussed him the fuck out and went about my business. Who the hell does he think he is? I dont give a flying fuck what your concerned about, how i appear what your trying to get to the bottom of etc etc, fuck you and mind your business , civilian.
Zimmerman or whatever is the adult, he initiated, everything afterwards is his fault. Lock him up.
Dahellisdat
Member
Yes, true.
I am so disappointed
If your criteria is wearing a hoodie when it's raining being suspicious...yes.
I can't wear my hoodie up because its suspicious? Do you really want to go down that road? I can wear whatever the hell I want and I shouldn't have to worry about 'inviting' vigilantes or rapists.
Other than having a handle and trigger well, the weapons don't feel, weigh, operate, or look the same at all.
There is zero confusion.
Yes I have, and I was under the impression police grade tasers are often shaped and molded to look and feel very similar to their sidearms:
Other than having a handle and trigger well, the weapons don't feel, weigh, operate, or look the same at all.
There is zero confusion.
Dahellisdat
Member
It doesn't just apply to that though....it can include someone's demeanor, whether or not they're recognizable as a neighbor, and yes, the time of day can all influence someone's judgement of what is suspicious.
That being said, the man made several sequential terrible decisions one after the other, and he fucked up. As soundafekz said, he acted very poorly on his judgement and in the end I'm sure he'll pay for it.
False. Wouldn't Zimmerman's mannerisms suggest he was racially profiling Trayvon? Remember, Trayvon put on his hoodie when he was being followed by Zimmerman. He viewed Trayvon as a treat to the community, and that's why he called the police. There's nothing wrong with being a little suspicious but there's nothing to suggest (based on what we know now) that Trayvon was a treat.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yes I have, and I was under the impression police grade tasers are often shaped and molded to look and feel very similar to their sidearms:
hold a Glock 19/22. then hold one of these tasers.
"oh" is what you'll mutter to yourself. Because the feel is unmistakably different.
CrazyDogg77
Member
So there is a set demeanor I should effect to not be seen as suspicious?
Dahellisdat
Member
Yes??
So when I walk around downtown at night when its 20 degrees out and I see women leaving the clubs wearing some pretty short skirts regardless of the weather conditions and think "hmmm.... I hope nothing happens to that girl. She's definitely asking for it dressed like that" and not be in the wrong?
Yeah. You know all those times when its kinda cool out and you just want to rock out with your headphones in and your hoodie up? Don't do it. It makes you look like a slut.
Well, yeah. Don't wring your hands and laugh manically.
Seriously though, the benefit of the doubt should ALWAYS fall on the victim in situations like this. Any action can be considered suspicious to a paranoid person.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked