CrazyDogg77
Member
Please enlighten me so I can avoid tragedy.
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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
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Please enlighten me so I can avoid tragedy.
So essentially what you and Zoe are saying is, Trayvon brought this on himself?
Dreams-Visions
Member
I'll be sure to never wear a hoodie ever again in life.
I will also constantly smile and wear a tie. But not a bow tie, lest I be mistaken for NOI.
I will also constantly smile and wear a tie. But not a bow tie, lest I be mistaken for NOI.
I don't think this is really a case where the perp "fucked up" and that's why he is/should be in trouble. He obviously has a deeply racist brain and it was only a matter of time before he arbitrarily lashed out/injured/killed an african american for no good reason. Why the fuck it had to be a little kid I have no idea. This is way beyond "fucking up". This is some kind of serious deep-seated mental issue from a psychopath.
Reallink
Member
Only if you suppose Zimmerman wouldn't have done the same thing to a white or Hispanic teen--also on a rainy night, with a Hoodie, looking around at houses. There is nothing to suggest Zimmerman's actions would have been limited to a black teen and only a black teen.
Be sure to have your hands visible at all times. Don't want people getting the idea that you're not readily complaint.
soundahfekz
Member
Sew some reflective elbow patches on your blazer and get a reflective handkerchief so that people know when you're going and coming. Make sure the suit is a bright yellow or green, but not red cause then you might look like Suge Knight.
You can never be too safe these days in the pursuit of tea
Dahellisdat
Member
No, dude! Some of you guys are so thick headed. I'm not saying he deserved to be profiled as suspicious. But it did happen because he fit Zimmerman's interpretation of suspicious people in his neighborhood. ZIMMERMAN fucked up the moment he decided to try and handle it himself.
Learn2read
Member
I call for stricter Skittles control laws
There's nothing to suggest Trayvon deserved to be followed by Zimmerman. That's the point.
Just a side question. Where did this come from again?
So, why are you saying that anyone living in a nice area should wear a specific set of clothes and not whatever they want, if this is indeed just zimmerman using his fucked up sense of who's suspicious looking?
CrazyDogg77
Member
How is looking at houses suspicious? Onemic I guess it's cool to make assumptions now man.
But fuck, I love hoodies. So comfy...
Reallink
Member
The 911 tapes, Zimmerman says Trayvon is "looking around at all the houses".
I said very explicitly the issue is "how Zimmerman chose to act on it".
So when you guys are walking down a street, you don't look at houses?
Well, there's definitely something to suggest that he's a racist.
Well, there's definitely something to suggest that he's a racist.
CrazyDogg77
Member
The funny thing is Trayvon wanted to be an aviation mechanic; a guy like him was probably looking at houses to study the architecture.
911 call, it was his explanation for why the kid was obviously shady.
Im not trying to derail this thread, I was talking about police in general, if some cop shoots a civilian in the back whos cuffed and on the floor, yea obviously fuck that guy, he cant handle the job. I was talking more if some guy is running from the cops and pulls something out of his pocket and gets shot, those type of scenarios
And again Im not trying to derail the thread, I just came in here, and you guys are discussing reflective coating...seems like its already derailed.
I totally get what you are saying, but what I was asking was how would this play in a trial? You cant just look someone up because you think they are guilty. Do you think they could prove it wasn't self defense? Is there enough evidence or negligence to actually arrest the guy and convict him. Or is it another OJ Simpson thing where everyone knows hes guilty but you cant prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Except the fact that it is blatant willful ignorance to pretend that profiling and stereotyping don't exist and haven't been factors in countless cases of "x happened because young black male looks suspicious and out of place".
The confrontation, the phone call, the "I got plenty of black friends/family" make it all crystal clear to those who've ever experienced or acknowledged casual racism.
Again, this is not a hate crime and the vast majority don't feel that Martin was targeted for murder because he was black. They do feel that he was put into the confrontation because he was black.
Also, little things your out of nowhere reference to gang activity when it had fuckall to do with any of the persons involved as well as Zoe's "well, you should dress this way so you don't give people the wrong idea" just spell it all out. Its casual. Its not even meant to be offensive. But its still a cog in the thought process of many - lets not pretend that it doesn't exist just to make ourselves feel better about it.
Or he's trying to get back to his dad's house at night and looking for familiar houses as landmarks. He's got a better reason to ask someone for directions than Zimmerman did.
Dahellisdat
Member
I never said anyone should do anything. All I said was that seeing something outside of your prospective expectation of normal is what makes things suspicious to people!
soundahfekz
Member
Actually, you can. It's called an arrest.
Again, you're not getting the point. I'm talking about Zimmerman following Trayvon.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Everybody knows young black men are always looking for a house to rob.
So I should do myself a favor and not look suspicious so I don't get shot? Let's keep going the down the victim blaming road. Find the next thread about a woman getting sexually harassed or raped then suggest that nothing would've happened if she didn't wear all that revealing clothing.
No you need evidence, you have to prove it. If they cant provide something that would hold up in court, it would be very stupid to arrest him, they are better off taking their time and getting more evidence, their case can only get stronger with time.
You don't get to shoot someone and not get arrested. A dead body is evidence. Whether it be for Murder 1 or manslaughter - you get cuffed, and the rest is worked out later.
CrazyDogg77
Member
Except they seem like they don't really want to arrest him.
I didn't know wearing a hoodie was outside what is deemed to be "normal"
Dahellisdat
Member
My god man, chill the fuck out. First of all, yes it IS good not to look suspicious. Second of all, it is QUITE obvious that Trayvon looked suspicious to ZIMMERMAN as ZIMMERMAN found what he saw to be out of the ordinary. I'm not fucking blaming the victim! I'm trying to work through what may have gone through Zimmerman's head when this happened.
Mortrialus
Banned
Poor guy. He was the real victim of this whole ordeal.
Dahellisdat
Member
To prepare for what might show up in court.
Unless your state has a law like Florida.
What went through his head?
"There is a [insert expletive for black person] in my neighborhood, he is OBVIOUSLY a criminal"
CrazyDogg77
Member
So would you want to figure out the rapist's motivation in the situation DY presented?
Dahellisdat
Member
There are no "self defense" laws to hide behind when you rape somebody.
The "stand your ground" thing doesn't make any sense.
Doesn't it basically imply that if you get into any fight or altercation in Florida, whoever pulls out their gun and kills the other first wins the fight and can't be charged for it?
How the fuck does that make any sense? That's like saying everyone who goes to a bar should bring a gun in case they get into a bar fight and need to "defend" themselves.
Doesn't it basically imply that if you get into any fight or altercation in Florida, whoever pulls out their gun and kills the other first wins the fight and can't be charged for it?
How the fuck does that make any sense? That's like saying everyone who goes to a bar should bring a gun in case they get into a bar fight and need to "defend" themselves.
Reallink
Member
It really goes without saying, but yea, on a rainy night it kind of is. It seems like this should be obvious to anyone. It doesn't matter whether this person is white, black, pink, or green, they're automatically suspicious.
Who is pretending racial profiling and stereotyping don't exist? I'm speaking to the evidence of this case in particular and nothing more. I don't believe we know the details of the confrontation yet, so it's impossible to say one way or the other. We do have the 911 call though, and there is nothing to suggest that the same thing wouldn't have played out if Trayvon was white. The "I have black friends" comments was in response to the decided racist focus the media has taken. Defending his son in the best way he knew how says absolutely nothing of confirming or acknowledging casual racism. Even if you want to read into the mere reference of black people, that was his father, not Zimmerman. Remember Zimmerman had no idea who Trayvon was or what he was doing, so the fact that he may have been looking at houses for direction has no bearing on any of my comments. I was speaking on things from Zimmerman's perspective, not an omnipotent narrator.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
You know what. I'll give you this. Zimmerman obviously has a messed up head so it is entirely possible...no...probable that his view of suspicious is crazy. Remember folks he did call the cops 46+ times with the overwhelming majority of them being false alarms. I'm finding it a bit difficult to believe EVERY one was on a black guy.
That's not to say that being black didn't play a role. It could have - especially if he said that slur...
Just to throw out random percentages for his suspicious-O-meter:
- Wearing hoodie 10% (Zimmerman is a wannabe overzealous cop so he probably thought the kid was concealing himself)
- Looking at houses 20% (Again, wannabe cop and overzealous. Everyones a threat. He probably thought that the kid was looking to see if he could break into something/casing)
- On drugs 20% (He's crazy. No idea why he said this. This percentage could be lumped into the "looking at houses" or being "black". Not sure. )
- Black 30% (Blacks males are dangerous guys!)
- Walking out at night 20% (He' thinks this is Gotham. Superheroes don't patrol the daytime for a reason)
Like I said these are just random percentages assigned to what I personally believe he may have thought. That's not to say he was correct in these ludicrous assumptions. That's just to say why I can see it being brought up and part of the reason he profiled Trayvon.
It's like saying a rapist probably would go after a girl wearing revealing clothes because:
a) It may turn him on b) In his messed up head he thinks she wants it c) Hes scum and thinks he can do whatever he wants to people and get away with it.
This is not a defense to what he did, or a paragraph on why Trayvon shouldn't have worn a hoodie, or looked at houses. To reasonable non paranoid/racist people these are perfectly normal actions. Im just trying to come up with an explanation that goes deeper than that of "He's a racist" or "He's crazy" which both are most likely true.
wasnt Zimmermann studiuos in the Criminal Justice field? He was applying skills!
i took CJ101as an elective. nearly the entire semester is dedicated to ethics. Zimmerma must have slept his way thru that class.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
The law didn't help him, there was reasonable evidence, Sanford PD is fucked up
Maybe you should actually read it, it might make more sense then.
Dreams-Visions
Member
The aggressor in a confrontation has waved his right to defense with the "stand his ground" law. It is designed to protect the victim and keep them from being forced to try to retreat first.
The problem comes in when there are no witnesses, the defendant claims self-defense, and no evidence really refutes the claim (such as the victim having been shot in the back or something).
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
Double post
I think people are really belaboring moot points. As for hoodies, as this documentary clearly shows: Hoodie down, never frown. Hoodie up, you gonna get raped:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmZpY2qVJiA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmZpY2qVJiA
Plenty of people.
Some honestly believe that one must say "I can't stannnnnnnnnd those jungle bunnies" before race is officially a factor. Racism, the majority of the time, is not expressed in a loud and direct manner like that.
Yeah he was gone after the vote, no confidence votes are just a way to say shit is rolling down hill and it's going to land completely on you.
No, not when there are no eyeball witnesses and there is evidence of self defense. Again, if they arrested him, it goes to trial, how do they prove it? They should wait for more evidence or a witness who saw it, so they can actually go to trial and have a chance.
You can only try someone for a crime once, its extremely dumb to rush it. You cant disprove the shooters self defense (at least that Im aware of).
If they arrested him, he would get out on bail probably, and lawyer up. And it would do nothing but make the case harder for them to prove. Plus if a weak case goes to trial, and he gets off, everyone will get even more pissed and probably will riot.
Idk I dont know all of the details, but from what I read, I dont know how they prove it to a jury. And they could end up spending hundreds of thousands on the trial, and get nowhere with it. And lose their ability to arrest and try him later on.
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