I kind of agree. Though I am liking the Ace/Mike plot a lot (more so than some of the other stories going on), but it does feel pretty divorced from everything else.
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Luck - HBO show about horse racing - Canceled "due to horse safety problems"
- Thread starter Cornballer
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I kind of agree. Though I am liking the Ace/Mike plot a lot (more so than some of the other stories going on), but it does feel pretty divorced from everything else.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Yeah, pretty much "fuck this shit".
I might have been only 1 of about 20 people absolutely loved the shit out of JfC. One of the greatest casts ever assembled, that great Milch dialogue, a wonderful setting, and a story arc that was only set to get better and better.
I am still pissed at HBO for cancelling JfC.
..Luck was no JfC, but too soon.
I might have been only 1 of about 20 people absolutely loved the shit out of JfC. One of the greatest casts ever assembled, that great Milch dialogue, a wonderful setting, and a story arc that was only set to get better and better.
I am still pissed at HBO for cancelling JfC.
..Luck was no JfC, but too soon.
BoboBrazil
Member
I liked John from Cincinatti and so did my girlfriend at the time. Was sad when it was cancelled.
BoboBrazil
Member
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I still have this song on my iPhone.. and whenever it plays I reminisce what could have been.
Also, Ed O'Neill:
Could not agree more. Luck was such an exquisite slow burn (although I was hooked instantly), it's fucking criminal that it's being cut short right when it's hitting its stride. There was so much potential for every character in the show. Seeing it canceled feels like a huge waste and cocktease.
As an aside, I couldn't help but laugh all season at all the people whining about how "inaccessible" Luck is since it doesn't spoon feed them every fucking thing. God forbid a show doesn't assume its viewers have the intelligence of a 5 year old. But the joke will ultimately be on me since these people make up the vast majority of television watchers and their taste will be the reason shows like Luck stop getting greenlit.
Eggplant Wizard
Member
If I may offer an overwrought eulogy:
What a work of art this show has been. Here we have the first sprawling-cast HBO series since The Wire ended that has actually worked as such. Boardwalk Empire might have many great moments, but it doesn't hold a candle to the level of character depth this show accomplished in nine hours. It's also the first sports-related television series that I've seen that shows both its knowledge of its sport (something at which FNL didn't exactly excel) and the emotional investment that its fans hold. And finally, it did all of this while surpassing Breaking Bad as the best-looking and best-sounding series on television. Luck's tragic cancellation and the even more tragic events surrounding it can't diminish the sublime experience of watching it. Well done, Milch and Mann.
What a work of art this show has been. Here we have the first sprawling-cast HBO series since The Wire ended that has actually worked as such. Boardwalk Empire might have many great moments, but it doesn't hold a candle to the level of character depth this show accomplished in nine hours. It's also the first sports-related television series that I've seen that shows both its knowledge of its sport (something at which FNL didn't exactly excel) and the emotional investment that its fans hold. And finally, it did all of this while surpassing Breaking Bad as the best-looking and best-sounding series on television. Luck's tragic cancellation and the even more tragic events surrounding it can't diminish the sublime experience of watching it. Well done, Milch and Mann.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Now I'm even more disappointed this is over because that was a FANTASTIC episode. Went out with style at least.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Could not agree more. Luck was such an exquisite slow burn (although I was hooked instantly), it's fucking criminal that it's being cut short right when it's hitting its stride. There was so much potential for every character in the show. Seeing it canceled feels like a huge waste and cocktease.
As an aside, I couldn't help but laugh all season at all the people whining about how "inaccessible" Luck is since it doesn't spoon feed them every fucking thing. God forbid a show doesn't assume its viewers have the intelligence of a 5 year old. But the joke will ultimately be on me since these people make up the vast majority of television watchers and their taste will be the reason shows like Luck stop getting greenlit.
A show can be challenging and accessible at the same time. Luck was not that show. It was a show that got entirely too caught up in its own universe and left a lot of viewers out in the cold as a result. It's okay to make viewers work, but you have to make them want to work. I don't feel like this show did that.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I feel like people are blowing the whole "inaccessibility" thing WAY out of proportion. I know nothing - absolutely nothing - about horse racing, and was fine after the first 2 or 3 episodes. I did no outside research, and looked up none of the terms. The show didn't spell everything out to the viewer immediately, but went about events in such a way that if you pay any attention at all, you would GET exactly what happened either in that very same episode, or when it was brought up later on.
It was like getting dropped onto a different planet at first, I'll grant you that, but is that such a bad thing?
ThisWreckage
Banned
The sad fact of the matter is that most viewers will not give a show two or three episodes. This is one reason why it lost so many viewers after the initial episode.
I think the one reviewers analogy of Luck's finale having the feeling of a great book but that planned to have several sequels best describes this episode and season.
They did a great job wrapping up most arcs and keeping away from cliffhangers that would leave a lingering sour taste.
With that said, it's a real shame to see it go. The show really hit its stride and has quickly moved up my list of all time great shows.
Also, Gus is a badass!
They did a great job wrapping up most arcs and keeping away from cliffhangers that would leave a lingering sour taste.
With that said, it's a real shame to see it go. The show really hit its stride and has quickly moved up my list of all time great shows.
Also, Gus is a badass!
I think what milch and Mann pointed out in one of the interviews linked above was very interesting. That the cumulative totals for viewership wasn't so bad and that HBO was fairly satisfied so far. Pointing out Once again that HBO is more concerned with subscriptions and total viewership and not first run audience numbers. Had they been they wouldn't of put the show up against the super bowl, the oscars and several other big Sunday events.
Mann in particular feeling this would be a show, like Miami vice, where the initial ratings weren't stellar but that it would grow from a small group of satisfied fans and through high critical praise.
No. It was a great show that was ignored (and derided) by simpleton viewers. Their loss. "Too caught up in its own universe"? This is obviously meant as a negative. I see it as a positive and I applaud it. I don't need to be coddled and explained to as if I'm a child, and I resent programs that assume I am. I want to be dropped into a believable universe and absorb it. I want to be curious about things and figure them out (or not). I don't want my hand held every step of the way and have every fucking thing explained to me.
I don't have much experience with horse racing, but somehow I was able to follow everything from the pilot onwards perfectly fine. My friends/coworkers/family and a lot of others were able to as well. So I just don't buy that Luck was crafted in such a way that it actively pushed viewers away. No, it pushed lazy or less intelligent viewers away. Luck was not created for the typical modern viewer who demands instant gratification and hand holding at every turn. Luck requires a bit more thought and engagement than the average show, and this is characterized as the show being "inaccessible" or whatever nonsense word they want to apply to it.
Characters are well written, well acted, and everything about it oozes quality craftsmanship. It sucks that some knuckledraggers among us couldn't appreciate it, but I'm not going to pretend the show was some Inland Empire-like impenetrable bog just because it used a little esoteric jargon.
Great episode. I loved those two races. They did such a wonderful job at making each race exciting and distinctive, and really bringing in the emotion of the audience. All that stuff with Gus and Ace deceiving and beating the hitmen was brilliant too. I love that we've really only gotten hints about their past, and their particular skills and business.
In a perfect world there would have been a little more with Richard Kind's character.
Thankfully the season at least works pretty well as a standalone miniseries.
I'm sure come awards time that HBO will push the continuing series, but damn I'd love to see the people behind this get recognized.
Edit: I really want to go catch some races at Santa Anita now.
In a perfect world there would have been a little more with Richard Kind's character.
Thankfully the season at least works pretty well as a standalone miniseries.
I'm sure come awards time that HBO will push the continuing series, but damn I'd love to see the people behind this get recognized.
Edit: I really want to go catch some races at Santa Anita now.
HyperBitHero
Member
I had never even heard of this show until earlier tonight when it was on, and it's cancelled?!
ThisWreckage
Banned
Like I said earlier in this thread, it's main problem was that it was a show about horse racing. It might have been well acted, well written, etc., but most people are not going to be interested in a show about horse racing. The premise was the biggest gamble from the start.
Night_Trekker
Member
Watching the final episode now. It's incredible :/ Geri Jewell's Dina Belle Garcia's character finally gets a name!
God I love these characters so much. It makes me nothing but angry now that the show was canceled, especially since I read that interview with Mann and Milch.
Here's hoping they release the completed season 2 episode with the box set. I have a feeling this one-season show won't feel quite as resolved as John from Cincinnati did.
EDIT: Utterly fantastic episode. Every character got interesting developments. The race was heart-stopping. Where they would have gone in season 2... it would have been amazing.
Luck was truly too good for this world.
Meanwhile, PETA isn't doing a thing to help find owners for the horses displaced by the show's cancellation. They got the PR they were looking for and moved on. Fucking disgusting organization.
Good man.
Here, here.
Amen.
God I love these characters so much. It makes me nothing but angry now that the show was canceled, especially since I read that interview with Mann and Milch.
Here's hoping they release the completed season 2 episode with the box set. I have a feeling this one-season show won't feel quite as resolved as John from Cincinnati did.
EDIT: Utterly fantastic episode. Every character got interesting developments. The race was heart-stopping. Where they would have gone in season 2... it would have been amazing.
WTF @ Rosie and Lonnie...
Luck was truly too good for this world.
Meanwhile, PETA isn't doing a thing to help find owners for the horses displaced by the show's cancellation. They got the PR they were looking for and moved on. Fucking disgusting organization.
Good man.
Here, here.
Amen.
blainethemono
Member
that's actually an actress named Dina Belle Garcia
Night_Trekker
Member
WHAAAAT. She gets so little screen time that I couldn't tell. I thought for sure it was Jewell.
Well, good to know Jewell wasn't in the show and left out of the credits! Seems like a role that was written for and fits a specific recurring Milch actor, though...
dead souls
Member
Great season finale, and it easily tied up enough stuff to work as an effective series finale.
Wait what? People actually enjoyed JFC? I thought it was an absolutely terrible show that hooked people in with a somewhat cool premise and then did nothing with it. Absolutely loved Deadwood, loved the cast of JFC, but the show was just tripe garbage.
Luck was pretty good from what I saw. I'll have to marathon it eventually.
Night_Trekker
Member
I'm not talking about people who never gave the show a chance because of the setting. I can understand that. I don't watch True Blood since I can't stand vampire shit. If someone didn't like the setting or the characters of Luck, that's cool.
I'm addressing the specific complaint I saw in abundance about how the show was "inaccessible". The constant whining about the jargon that they couldn't parse. It just reeked of ADD and/or a lower intelligence which prevented them from inferring meaning through context. "DUMB THIS SHOW DOWN FOR ME PLZ!"
I totally understand how a show like Luck would be anathema to such a viewer. I'm just going to defend it against those accusations. Everything was explained clearly in due time, so any problems in following along lies with the viewer and their intelligence or attention span (or lack thereof).
Cornballer
Member
PistolPete
Member
Yeah this is a shame. This was a great show. HBO is crazy like this. They have shows that deserve more episodes like deadwood, carnivale and luck but other shows run too long (Sopranos IMHO)
Does anyone have a list of what HBO currently has in development that hasn't started production or hasn't been officially announced?
Does anyone have a list of what HBO currently has in development that hasn't started production or hasn't been officially announced?
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Very good finale. Aside from the Ace/Mike stuff (which got pretty damn exciting near the end of the show), I felt like everything concluded nicely. Thank goodness. *sigh* I'm sad that the show is over, but the ending was great and overall I feel like the show was a complete work. It had all the pieces there, and they were mostly all in place, so I'm satisfied.
Big lol @ Ace not eating the mayonaised bread. This show really excelled at producing tiny moments like that. BTW, Ace's grandson was played by Dustin Hoffman's son?! wat
Also, from Sepinwall's interview, it sounds like Milch is doing "Light in August" from Faulkner next. I wonder what form it will take? Movie, miniseries, etc.?
Agreed. While I did have some trouble here and there, particularly in regards to Ace's story line, I didn't have very much trouble with the jargon. It wasn't that difficult to understand.
Big lol @ Ace not eating the mayonaised bread. This show really excelled at producing tiny moments like that. BTW, Ace's grandson was played by Dustin Hoffman's son?! wat
Also, from Sepinwall's interview, it sounds like Milch is doing "Light in August" from Faulkner next. I wonder what form it will take? Movie, miniseries, etc.?
Agreed. While I did have some trouble here and there, particularly in regards to Ace's story line, I didn't have very much trouble with the jargon. It wasn't that difficult to understand.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Same here. Late in the season the show started to really gel into a cool unique show
Eggplant Wizard
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programs_broadcast_by_HBO#Future_programming
Aaron Sorkin's The Newsroom is the only other drama premiering this year, I think. American Gods (which I'm oddly excited for, considering I couldn't bring myself to finish the book) could start as early as next year.
The HBO show I'm most looking forward to now is the Scorsese/Terence Winter/Mick Jagger project. No idea when it is scheduled to air but I will be there day 1 for sure.
ThisWreckage
Banned
That's overly harsh. The first episode was somewhat hard to follow. Certainly harder to follow than most television. There was also plenty of horse racing jargon in episode one as well. It's indisputable. If a viewer got turned off by those two things then I completely understand. A lot of people do not watch television that makes them work. Most people view television as vapid entertainment.
You call it overly harsh, I call it distressingly accurate.
I didn't find the pilot hard to follow at all, and there was plenty of horse racing jargon in every episode. The thing is, that jargon was explained if it related to the plot. If it wasn't explained, then it wasn't a crucial point to the story. So who cares if some terms fly over your head? This is the problem. People whined about that because they want every single thing brought down to their level and meticulously explained. If they had their way the show would have been a complete bore. It would have been like Inception where every episode is centered around explaining shit. Shit that is ultimately window dressing to the actual drama at the heart of the show. You say people don't want to work, I agree but I also say they are simpletons. I never once felt like I was working while watching Luck, and I certainly don't consider myself a genius.
But yes, I agree that easily digestible tripe is what is most popular. A movie like A Serious Man will never be as popular as Transformers. Even if Boardwalk Empire was on network tv it would never do American Idol numbers. HBO shows are like a refuge from all the braindead bile that the average viewer enjoys, so to see them scribble their angry rants because Luck made their tiny brains hurt by asking them to pay attention for more than 3 minutes is amusing to me. I look at Luck and I see brilliance. I look at the complaints about being inaccessible and I see petulance and stupidity.
brianjones
Member
yep it was great
show to beat this year i think
show to beat this year i think
ThisWreckage
Banned
It's foolish to assume that every other viewer is observant or as "smart" as you. There were posters in this very thread that said this show was hard to follow at first. Do you consider those people stupid? I certainly do not. Luck definitely isn't or wasn't high art either.
That is my point. I don't think I'm exceptionally observant or smart. So yes, when I read those complaints about people being lost and giving up on the show in this thread I was thinking "what the fuck is wrong with you? this isn't a Lynch movie".
dead souls
Member
If you watch television through a monocle like he does you'd understand. Then again he references Boardwalk Empire as though it's something of quality, so his taste is pretty suspect to me.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Lynch movies are not hard to figure out. Especially movies like Blue Velvet, Elephant Man, and Straight Story. Even his movies like Mulholland Dr. and Eraserhead are somewhat straightforward.
Also, let's not give HBO too much credit. True Blood, Eastbound and Down, How to Make it in America, and Entourage are NOT a refuge from "braindead bile". Period.
Television is a tough medium. I think that artists are allowed to be more cagey and idiosyncratic with the film medium. There's at least a sizable amount of the population that watches movies to be challenged or because they want to see something artsy. I think that most people watch the tv medium for entertainment and escapism. That leads me to my next point and something that someone else mentioned earlier-- Luck would have probably worked better as a mini series.
If someone told me they couldn't understand Inland Empire, or that they weren't sure what Eraserhead was about, I'd understand. Having that kind of "I-can't-make-heads-or-tails-of-it" reaction to the pilot of Luck? I just can't fathom it.
I mostly agree with this, but I don't buy into the dichotomy that says a show has to be either entertaining/escapist OR artsy and challenging. Shows can be both.
I also don't think Luck would have worked better as a mini series. As much as it sucks that this season is all there is, I felt that the finale wrapped things up nicely enough. It practically feels like an extended mini series already. There was just too much potential with all the characters they established to say that it was already exhausted.
Of course not every show they make is flawless. But those shows you listed are HBO's versions of mindless entertainment. Which is fine, that stuff has its place. But I don't want to see everything be brought down to that level because a bunch of vocal whiners got headaches when a show asked them to do a tiny bit of thinking. I want to see more shows like Luck made, not less.
Cornballer
Member
I finally got a chance to watch tonight. Really tremendous finale. I'll miss this show a lot, but I'm glad I had the opportunity to watch one season of it.
Night_Trekker
Member
That's the official reason, and I believe it. The "neglect" PETA made noise about was bullshit--the deaths were all freak accidents, and the horses were very well taken care of--but the PETA narrative about the show's use of "drugged" and "malnourished" horses was already out there, and HBO had no choice but to shut down the show in the face of all that bad PR.
Plus, even given the alarmingly common nature of horse deaths in horse racing and, in contrast, Luck's relatively impressive safety record... you can't just have horses dying for entertainment. Viewers won't put up with it, and the people behind the show do love horses, after all.
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