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[R_thanatos]

There's no way a publisher can gauge a single clear message from sales. If this game bombs there could be hundreds of reasons they derive from it. The only way it'd make it very clear is if the 360 version outsold the PS3 version massively, and if that isn't the typical trend for Atlus games, or fighting games.

The vast majority of people will never even know it's region locked, thousands will and wouldn't ever care. It's never going to make a big enough splash to make any bold indication from sales that people are pissed. But even if it did, it's not like Atlus don't know that from the feedback so far.

If you want this game, and you have a non-Euro PS3, you should buy it, because not doing so will only serve to stop you playing a game you want, Atlus don't give a fuck.

1- i want to send a message , if my message is not heard then as a consummer, screw them .. that message should be easy to spot given the people complaining and the P4 popularity ( or the arc system work games popularity )

2- i have a Euro PS3 .. the fate of this game is to not be on my collection for now .. ( it would had been otherwise ) i will complain about the lock untill the end of time if necessary...

Ps: i care about a lot of things ... i remember saying in one of the early P4A threads that if the game didn't have dual audio i would import the japanese version because it's what i want .. Now i can't import at all ...Now you see how annoyed i am at this "lock"

 

[3Kaze]

Old? P4U opening (not in the good thread, I know)
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201207/13017929.html

 

[LegatoB]

Ahh. I didn't know this game lacked an PAL release, I just assumed it was coming. That is troublesome.

There is a PAL release coming. The problem is that it doesn't have a firm date ("maybe the end of August"), and the publisher/distributor responsible has a reputation for repeatedly missing their target dates.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

If you want this game, and you have a non-Euro PS3, you should buy it, because not doing so will only serve to stop you playing a game you want, Atlus don't give a fuck.

I want this game in a "I'd like to play it" kind of way, not in a "my life will be incomplete if I don't play it" kind of way. I like fighting games. But I don't feel the need to play them all. So I don't give a fuck if Atlus gives a fuck or not. No sale.

Atlus "fails" to release their games in PALland because they do not have a business there. If they thought it would be worth it to do so they would have done it.
Dual audio is also just not important to me unless they do text too; when the little bits of Japanese I can make sense of come through and I'm reading a totally different English sentence it messes with me.

You miss my point. I know Atlus does not have a European branch and that is why many of their games do not see a release. But it is precisely because they are unable to guarantee their games will be released that it's important for people like me to send the message that we don't support region locked titles. I care about choice, not Japanese dubs or which publisher gets my money.

 

[Dantis]

Old? P4U opening (not in the good thread, I know)
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201207/13017929.html

Disappointing, but better than awful Golden opening.

 

[Delusibeta]

To be honest, from what I've seen, this is the only thread (outside of Atlus' forums, where I haven't checked) where large numbers of people are bothered by the region locking. I suspect the boycott will be a damp squib.

 

[R_thanatos]

To be honest, from what I've seen, this is the only thread (outside of Atlus' forums, where I haven't checked) where large numbers of people are bothered by the region locking. I suspect the boycott will be a damp squib.

Have you check on europpean communities foroms where a large amount of people were looking to form P4A communities ?
Because thats where you need to look

 

[Infinite]

"Everyone you talk to", well that sure is a sizeable and scientifically valid sample size, definitely not anecdotal evidence, no siree

I never claimed such. The community I'm involved with however (North East FGC) for the most part will be playing this game at all our locals and hopefully get it in majors. I can't speak for other communities directly but I'm sure Norcal anime players feel the same way since region locking has no effect on how they want to play the game. North East FGC picks the game up which all things are pointing to right now then that's all that actually matters to me personally other than the game being of competitive worth. All that goes with out saying.

 

[demidar]

Ok I haven't been keeping up with people's stances on this I confess (40 pages is a lot) but this "incident" and the latest Bombcast has caused me to reevaluate my stance of always being against region locking. I think that region-locking is perfectly fine, but with an important caveat. A region locked game MUST be released near the same time to each other in all major areas in a way that is consumable to its populace (like having Japanese voicework with Engligh subs and menus). In all other cases, a game should be region free.

I feel this stance is acceptable since people hate region locking because it prevents a person from getting games they cannot otherwise obtain locally. If that problem is solved, then region locking won't affect them and they won't get indignant all over the internet. As an example, I wish 999: Good People Die wasn't region locked (I do not want Vita) so I can play it down here in Australia, as no Pal land publisher is picking it up, but if I wanted to play P4A then I can just stroll into the shops and grab it off the shelves.

/2cents

 

[Viola of the Abyss]

Ok I haven't been keeping up with people's stances on this I confess (40 pages is a lot) but this "incident" and the latest Bombcast has caused me to reevaluate my stance of always being against region locking. I think that region-locking is perfectly fine, but with an important caveat. A region locked game MUST be released near the same time to each other in all major areas in a way that is consumable to its populace (like having Japanese voicework with Engligh subs and menus). In all other cases, a game should be region free.

I feel this stance is acceptable since people hate region locking because it prevents a person from getting games they cannot otherwise obtain locally. If that problem is solved, then region locking won't affect them and they won't get indignant all over the internet. As an example, I wish 999: Good People Die wasn't region locked (I do not want Vita) so I can play it down here in Australia, as no Pal land publisher is picking it up, but if I wanted to play P4A then I can just stroll into the shops and grab it off the shelves.

/2cents

Your example is unfortunately a too good to be true reality.
If publishers were to start region locking their games, sooner or later there will be THAT game that won't be published in the PAL region at all!

This is especially true of Atlus, where many of their games were not released in PAL land (Radiant Historia as a very recent example). That's why, in my case, the fact that Atlus itself "started" this is even more worrysome.

 

[Dantis]

Ok I haven't been keeping up with people's stances on this I confess (40 pages is a lot) but this "incident" and the latest Bombcast has caused me to reevaluate my stance of always being against region locking. I think that region-locking is perfectly fine, but with an important caveat. A region locked game MUST be released near the same time to each other in all major areas in a way that is consumable to its populace (like having Japanese voicework with Engligh subs and menus). In all other cases, a game should be region free.
/2cents

I agree. This is not the case for Persona Arena, however.

 

[demidar]

Your example is unfortunately a too good to be true reality.
If publishers were to start region locking their games, sooner or later there will be THAT game that won't be published in the PAL region at all!

This is especially true of Atlus, where many of their games were not released in PAL land (Radiant Historia as a very recent example). That's why, in my case, the fact that Atlus itself "started" this is even more worrysome.

You're right, I am being too idealistic. I don't really trust publishers all that much anymore, but then what can we do?

 

[Viola of the Abyss]

You're right, I am being too idealistic. I don't really trust publishers all that much anymore, but then what can we do?

Do like we've done in this case, let them hear our voices to show our disapproval and put this into practice by voting with our wallet and not buying the game, and write them to let them know why you haven't bought it (this is the most important thing).

Then they'll make all the necessary calculations, update their data on how many would not buy the game because of this and confront the loss with their predicted loss caused by reverse importing. After that they could say what is best for them and keep going that way. Which is not for us to know until their next release...

If you really, really, really want to buy the game then just buy it, but still write them to let them know that you're not ok with this.
I can't really blame anyone for this, I know I'd buy it too if this were Versus XIII or Persona 5, even in case of a delayed release.
But it would be only for very special cases.

 

[zerokoolpsx]

To be honest, from what I've seen, this is the only thread (outside of Atlus' forums, where I haven't checked) where large numbers of people are bothered by the region locking. I suspect the boycott will be a damp squib.

HAHAHAHA, but no. Some will boycott, others will buy it used. Any region that has most games overpriced, *looks at Australia* will definitely be complaining more.
Hoping their next sequel is region free.
Atlus PR is pretty much doing damage control. Besides, this is a niche title from a small company. They need all the sales they can get, but region locking this game isn't the way to do it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Canis lupus]

1- i want to send a message , if my message is not heard then as a consummer, screw them .. that message should be easy to spot given the people complaining and the P4 popularity ( or the arc system work games popularity )

2- i have a Euro PS3 .. the fate of this game is to not be on my collection for now .. ( it would had been otherwise ) i will complain about the lock untill the end of time if necessary...

Ps: i care about a lot of things ... i remember saying in one of the early P4A threads that if the game didn't have dual audio i would import the japanese version because it's what i want .. Now i can't import at all ...Now you see how annoyed i am at this "lock"

Just what I think. They shoot themselves in the foot with this move. This year is crowded with fighter releases and they do such a thing.

 

[Dantis]

Just what I think. They shoot themselves in the foot with this move. This year is crowded with fighter releases and they do such a thing.

Indeed. Even if the sales are unaffected, their reputation will be tarnished for a good, long while.

 

[DR2K]

Indeed. Even if the sales are unaffected, their reputation will be tarnished for a good, long while.

Until their next release in a month and a half which is region free.

 

[Uthred]

Until their next release in a month and a half which is region free.

Not really how reputation works, every single release of theirs now has a question mark over it regarding region locking and it will take considerably more than one release to shift that

 

["God's Beard!"]

Indeed. Even if the sales are unaffected, their reputation will be tarnished for a good, long while.

 

[Uthred]

Regardless of the effect of the boycott Atlus is now associated with region locking on the PS3. How much this tarnishes their reputation is certainly open to debate. But even those who dont give a shit about it are still aware it occured, ergo their reputation has been affected.

 

[DR2K]

Not really how reputation works, every single release of theirs now has a question mark over it regarding region locking and it will take considerably more than one release to shift that

What reputation? They'll region lock games that release multi-region. Their next few are not that though.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Wow, that proves... Absolutely nothing because it's Call of fucking Duty.

 

[Uthred]

What reputation? They'll region lock games that release multi-region. Their next few are not that though.

I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. I dont mean to be rude but could you genuinely not follow the flow of the conversation across four posts? Let me help you out, Dantis said that their reputation would be tarnished for a good while by this incident, you said it wouldnt because their next game wouldnt be region locked, I pointed out thats not how reputation worked and it would likely require a few region free releases to repair their reputation. Then you apparently got confused as to what we were talking about.

But to spell it out, their reputation as a "fans first" porting house for region free niche titles has been tarnished (moreso in the regions directly affected, the majority of those unaffected will note that it has occured but probably not give too much of a shit), they have also gained the (negative) reputation for being the first publisher to region lock a PS3 game. Clear now?

It's also amusing that your summary of their position " They'll region lock games that release multi-region." is a) the one importers are worried about them taking and b) the direct OPPOSITE of what their own PR release said - why look at that their repuation is warped a little further.

 

[Lost Fragment]

It would be kind of sad if Atlus, after years upon years of being awesome in almost every way, suffered any meaningful damage to their reputation over something as stupid as this.

 

[Uthred]

It would be kind of sad if Atlus, after years upon years of being awesome in almost every way, suffered any meaningful damage to their reputation over something as stupid as this.

That is unfortunately how reputation works and from this thread the issue is quite clearly not "stupid" for a number of people. Also its misguided for any consumer to sum up people complaining about anti-consumer behaviour as "stupid". To be honest the stupidest thing on display is peoples inability to grasp exactly how region locking is bad for everyone and a sad failure to look beyond this specific incident.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

So is there a stance that Atus could have taken that would have made those (understandably) upset change their tune? And by stance I mean was there any reason they could give for region locking that would have been "acceptable"?

 

[Toski]

So is there a stance that Atus could have taken that would have made those (understandably) upset change their tune?

No.

 

[Lost Fragment]

That is unfortunately how reputation works and from this thread the issue is quite clearly not "stupid" for a number of people. Also its misguided for any consumer to sum up people complaining about anti-consumer behaviour as "stupid". To be honest the stupidest thing on display is peoples inability to grasp exactly how region locking is bad for everyone and a sad failure to look beyond this specific incident.

90% of the time when whatever flavor-of-the-week thing to be OMG outraged about comes around, it's just a relatively small group of people being very loud (and often, very unreasonable). I haven't really been following this that closely so maybe this is the 10%, and a significant amount of people actually will go through with boycotts and junk. If so, then it's real sad that people are so eager to turn on a company that, for years and years, has gone out of its way to cater to the community. Especially over an issue that doesn't affect 99% of them.

I can understand people being uneasy over whatever precedent they think this sets. I can even understand people going out of their way to not buy the game over this. That's kinda extreme, but whatever. But company-wide boycotts and harboring hard feelings for months and years? Stupid as fuck.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

90% of the time when whatever flavor-of-the-week thing to be OMG outraged about comes around, it's just a relatively small group of people being very loud (and often, very unreasonable). I haven't really been following this that closely so maybe this is the 10%, and a significant amount of people actually will go through with boycotts and junk. If so, then it's real sad that people are so eager to turn on a company that, for years and years, has gone out of its way to cater to the community. Especially over an issue that doesn't affect 99% of them.

I can understand people being uneasy over whatever precedent they think this sets. I can even understand people going out of their way to not buy the game over this. That's kinda extreme, but whatever. But company-wide boycotts and harboring hard feelings for months and years? Stupid as fuck.

Why should any of us worry about what this might do to Atlus, rather than what it does do to us? The only thing you find "sad" is it might affect Atlus' profits or your online community. So you think we should all just ignore how we are being affected because you're worried about Atlus? Nah, the only thing stupid as fuck here is your narcissistic point of view.

 

[Lost Fragment]

The only thing you find "sad" is it might affect Atlus' profits or your online community.

Less that, more people screaming and throwing a temper tantrum the first time something doesn't always go perfectly with a company that has a long history of being generally awesome to the community.

 

[Gokurakumaru]

Less that, more people screaming and throwing a temper tantrum the first time something doesn't always go perfectly with a company that has a long history of being generally awesome to the community.

I'm in PAL land and Atlus has never been "awesome" to my community. And now they are being outright hostile to it. They have absolutely zero goodwill built up with me to burn on this issue.

 

[Augemitbutter]

So is there a stance that Atus could have taken that would have made those (understandably) upset change their tune? And by stance I mean was there any reason they could give for region locking that would have been "acceptable"?

don't ever touch my region free consoles. that's all.

 

[hamchan]

So is there a stance that Atus could have taken that would have made those (understandably) upset change their tune? And by stance I mean was there any reason they could give for region locking that would have been "acceptable"?

If the game actually launched worldwide at the same time instead of just two regions at the same time.

 

[alstein]

90% of the time when whatever flavor-of-the-week thing to be OMG outraged about comes around, it's just a relatively small group of people being very loud (and often, very unreasonable). I haven't really been following this that closely so maybe this is the 10%, and a significant amount of people actually will go through with boycotts and junk. If so, then it's real sad that people are so eager to turn on a company that, for years and years, has gone out of its way to cater to the community. Especially over an issue that doesn't affect 99% of them.

I can understand people being uneasy over whatever precedent they think this sets. I can even understand people going out of their way to not buy the game over this. That's kinda extreme, but whatever. But company-wide boycotts and harboring hard feelings for months and years? Stupid as fuck.

The Euros have every right to be upset. Americans not as much, outside of the precedent issue.

Atlus has lost their goodwill with me personally, but they earned the "right" to one screw-up. How many chances did folks keep giving Capcom?

 

[Lexmark2]

Not really how reputation works, every single release of theirs now has a question mark over it regarding region locking and it will take considerably more than one release to shift that

Not really a good majority of their U.S fans don't even know the game is region locked or care that it is. Maybe it will tarnish their reputation in Europe, but as to my understanding they don't support atlus in PAL region anyway if most people keep importing from the U.S. I don't think it will hurt them in japan either for the most part, so yeah I just think it will only hurt them in one region.

In the long run it seems that people are hurting atlus regardless of what they do if they aren't buying from their respective region where it releases.

 

[zoku88]

So is there a stance that Atus could have taken that would have made those (understandably) upset change their tune? And by stance I mean was there any reason they could give for region locking that would have been "acceptable"?

"They would have murdered all of our dear ones if we didn't region lock."

 

[Uthred]

Less that, more people screaming and throwing a temper tantrum the first time something doesn't always go perfectly with a company that has a long history of being generally awesome to the community.

It's both dismissive and inaccurate to categorise people objecting to Atlus' decision as "screaming" and "throwing a temper tantrum". The majority of the objections have been presented reasonably, the overall feeling presented seems to be more disappointment than anger. I'm also not sure how choosing not to buy a product you a) cant use or b) don't want to support because of the company's action counts as "throwing a tantrum". Voting with ones wallet is the standard consumer response, no ones sending death threats or anything like that.

 

[Dantis]

Are we pretending that Activision relies on its core fan-base as much as Atlus does?

Because that's really, really dumb.

I can even understand people going out of their way to not buy the game over this. That's kinda extreme, but whatever. But company-wide boycotts and harboring hard feelings for months and years? Stupid as fuck.

Well you know what? So is accepting it just because the company has a good reputation (Which is arguably undeserved. Beyond their localization of niche games, what have they done that's so spectacular? This isn't Valve or CD Projekt, guys.).

 

[Cloudy]

This seems dumb from all angles.

- They are region-locking because the games are releasing 2 weeks apart? Why not delay or push-up one version?

- Regardless. anyone who can't wait 2 weeks for a game needs to calm the fuck down.

edit: I guess the EU fans are the ones complaining the most. They do have a point but threatening to boycott a company that's been pretty good to fans of niche games seems silly. The explanation given seems legitimate IMO

ps: I didn't plan on buying this game but I will just to offset some of the super-entitled folks who might boycott it lol

 

[Jucksalbe]

Well you know what? So is accepting it just because the company has a good reputation (Which is arguably undeserved. Beyond their localization of niche games, what have they done that's so spectacular? This isn't Valve or CD Projekt, guys.).

Oh come on, just because you're mad at this incident you don't have to pretend like they didn't do a good job in the past. Atlus released tons of games noone else would probably have picked up, they always listened closely to their fans and mostly did a great job on their localizations. I don't really understand why you would compare them to developers.

 

[Uthred]

super-entitled folks

Bullshit

 

[Box of Bunnies]

edit: I guess the EU fans are the ones complaining the most. They do have a point but threatening to boycott a company that's been pretty good to fans of niche games seems silly. The explanation given seems legitimate IMO

ps: I didn't plan on buying this game but I will just to offset some of the super-entitled folks who might boycott it lol

More than half of Atlus' PSP games that hit the US never arrived in PAL regions. You can go fuck yourself with your "super-entitled" bullshit. Like, insert that Persona 4 Arena disc right up your arse. I'll turn up seven months later with mine (assuming we get the game at all) to assist you.

 

[alstein]

This seems dumb from all angles.

- They are region-locking because the games are releasing 2 weeks apart? Why not delay or push-up one version?

- Regardless. anyone who can't wait 2 weeks for a game needs to calm the fuck down.

edit: I guess the EU fans are the ones complaining the most. They do have a point but threatening to boycott a company that's been pretty good to fans of niche games seems silly. The explanation given seems legitimate IMO

ps: I didn't plan on buying this game but I will just to offset some of the super-entitled folks who might boycott it lol

Atlus doesn't exist in the EU, they have every reason to be mad as hell. As for why not delay, if the US version got delayed into, say, November, with TTT2 and DOA out, and TTT2 looking as boss as it is, it might have hurt sales or the delay might have caused folks to not want the game at all (why the Euros are so upset).

I can sorta understand why Atlus JP suits thought this would be a good idea, but it really isn't.

 

[Dantis]

Oh come on, just because you're mad at this incident you don't have to pretend like they didn't do a good job in the past. Atlus released tons of games noone else would probably have picked up, they always listened closely to their fans and mostly did a great job on their localizations. I don't really understand why you would compare them to developers.

The only Atlus games I care about are the ones developed by Atlus. Publishing their own games is hardly worthy of praise.

I dunno where this whole "They listen to the community" thing has come from either. I can't think of a single instance where they have done.

Like I say, they're not CD Projekt or Valve.

 

[Pezking]

And by stance I mean was there any reason they could give for region locking that would have been "acceptable"?

Nope.

 

[Pezking]

edit: I guess the EU fans are the ones complaining the most. They do have a point but threatening to boycott a company that's been pretty good to fans of niche games seems silly.

To me, this isn't about boycotting Atlus.
This is about boycotting the first region-locked game ever on PS3.

I will still buy/import every region-free Atlus game i want to play in the future.

I just wish sales for P4A will be low enough that it'll raise some eyebrows.

I want them to regret region-locking P4A, and that can only happen through poor sales numbers and negative feedback.

I'm not even mad at Atlus. Can't blame them for trying, in the end they're just a regular business company. But I want the first region-locked PS3 game to bomb nonetheless.

 

[LiquidSolid]

This seems dumb from all angles.

- They are region-locking because the games are releasing 2 weeks apart? Why not delay or push-up one version?

- Regardless. anyone who can't wait 2 weeks for a game needs to calm the fuck down.

edit: I guess the EU fans are the ones complaining the most. They do have a point but threatening to boycott a company that's been pretty good to fans of niche games seems silly. The explanation given seems legitimate IMO

ps: I didn't plan on buying this game but I will just to offset some of the super-entitled folks who might boycott it lol

Yes, getting angry at the FIRST publisher to make a region locked PS3 game is SO super entitled.

"We want more money" is not a fucking legitimate reason to make any move that screws over the consumer. If anything, it makes it look like they're taking their fanbase for granted and playing the people that will just shrug it off as nothing for fools.

To me, this isn't about boycotting Atlus.
This is about boycotting the first region-locked game ever on PS3.

I will still buy/import every region-free Atlus game i want to play in the future.

I just wish sales for P4A will be low enough that it'll raise some eyebrows.

I want them to regret region-locking P4A, and that can only happen through poor sales numbers and negative feedback.

I'm not even mad at Atlus. Can't blame them for trying, in the end they're just a regular business company. But I want the first region-locked PS3 game to bomb nonetheless.

I'm mostly the same, as this isn't going to stop me from buying P4 Golden (assuming they're not lying about it being region free), but I can and will blame them for trying. They're a small company, so they need to operate far smarter than the bigger ones because they don't really have the same kind of safety net to fall back on. This is a stupid move and if they continue to make similar moves, they're not going to be around a whole lot longer. The world is changing, consumers are taking advantage of globalisation and companies shouldn't be able to rig things in their favour with things like region locks.

What this decision will do however, is make me far more hesitant to import Atlus games, as I can no longer be confident that they're region free. So most Atlus games I import from now on will either be months after release or second hand. And it'll take a lot of region free releases (on actual region free systems) to regain that confidence.

 

[Pezking]

What this decision will do however, is make me far more hesitant to import Atlus games, as I can no longer be confident that they're region free. So most Atlus games I import from now on will either be months after release or second hand. And it'll take a lot of region free releases (on actual region free systems) to regain that confidence.

That's true. I won't pre-order another Atlus game anytime soon.

Sucks for potentially missing out some cool pre-order bonus or 1st print editions. This makes it much easier for me to wait for a price cut. I'm usually very patient with buying games I don't get directly on Day 1.

 

[FrozenCell]

I'm sure hackers will publish a region free copy online for your convenience, or how Gabe Newell of Valve put it: "We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," he said. "If a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable."
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114391-Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

 

[BKK]

PS3 was touted as region free for games since even before release, so to start allowing publishers to region lock games six years from launch is pretty despicable behaviour from Sony. They never mentioned publishers had this option before, which means consumers have been misled into buying PS3s under the assumption that they were region free when this was never actually the case.

Why haven't Sony even explained how PS3 region locking will work? Does it say in the PS3 manual? Will it be the same as PS2 (three regions), or will there actually be six regions as implied by the region logo on PS3 game cases? Is Asia in the same region as Japan or not? It's very confusing for consumers outside of NA/EU/JP. There really needs to be better communication and clarification from Sony on this matter.