Support NeoGAF

[Cyrano]

It really would be nice to get an official statement from Bandai or From, just to see what it was that prevented such optimizations from occurring. All this speculation is wasted energy I think.

I'm surprised Dead End Thrills isn't on that yet.

I'm sure if someone asked him he'd probably oblige.

 

[mash440]

Only you would know the answer to this... do you think that they left it easy to mod on purpose (not trying to dismiss your work on DoF etc), maybe they set everything up for unlocked framebuffer and just locked it because Namco didnt want to bother testing it?

If they wanted to make it easy to modify, they would put it in an INI file like most Unreal Engine developers do.

The game was completely closed off, if it was supposed to be mod friendly, someone would have found a way to remove the splash screens by now for example. The only reason we have hi-resolution framebuffers is due to Durante's tenacity.

 

[Dictator93]

I found myself in the same situation but a bit different...


Supersampling to 5760 with durantes mod on one screen or triple screens native with durantes mod + flawless widescreen, went for triple screens.

If I was you I would have selected Durante's mod at native res plus 3D without SSAO,

I could always use Durante Mod plus 3D Helix mod for some 1080p 4xMSAA goodness. With no SSAO of course.

The 3D still has a problem with water shaders in the game though

 

[Durante]

Only you would know the answer to this... do you think that they left it easy to mod on purpose (not trying to dismiss your work on DoF etc), maybe they set everything up for unlocked framebuffer and just locked it because Namco didnt want to bother testing it?

No I don't think so. They also didn't make it particularly hard of course.

It's hard to gauge intent from DirectX calls (what a statement ), but if I were to engage in that I'd say that they really did the bare minimum to get it shipped. This is indicated by peculiarities like the double scaling (1024 -> 1280 -> screen).

It really would be nice to get an official statement from Bandai or From, just to see what it was that prevented such optimizations from occurring. All this speculation is wasted energy I think.

Agreed. I should get back to coding.

 

[zephervack]

If they wanted to make it easy to modify, they would put it in an INI file like most Unreal Engine developers do.

The game was completely closed off, if it was supposed to be mod friendly, someone would have found a way to remove the splash screens by now for example. The only reason we have hi-resolution framebuffers is due to Durante's tenacity.

No I don't think so. They also didn't make it particularly hard of course.

It's hard to gauge intent from DirectX calls (what a statement ), but if I were to engage in that I'd say that they really did the bare minimum to get it shipped. This is indicated by peculiarities like the double scaling (1024 -> 1280 -> screen).

Agreed. I should get back to coding.

Ok thanks for the en-lighting information, praise the sun.

Hopefully one day we will get the whole story from FROM, such a mistery.

 

[chiablo]

Has there been any word from Bandai or From regarding the release of the PC version? Via twitter or an official channel?

If anything, I'd imagine there would be something about them being pleased with the sales numbers and working on supporting the product post-release.

 

[scitek]

There's a very big difference between what an independent individual can do outside of the "system" and the processes that take place within a professional development environment.

You just use a blanket "they" to refer to From/Namco-Bandai, when what you're actually referring to are separate entities each made up of numerous individuals each of whom will doubtless have his/her own perspective and view on what should happen/have happened.



Good luck QA'ing a 100 hour game in 23 minutes on every variation of PC hardware out there.

The fact remains that, no matter which way you try to spin it, Namco should have gotten someone that knew what they were doing to port the game. Or at least provided assistance for FROM because what they released is an embarrassment. If you're going to be upset at anyone for hurting the coders or whoever's feelings, be upset at whoever made the decision that poor treatment of such a highly regarded game was okay.

 

[zephervack]

Has there been any word from Bandai or From regarding the release of the PC version? Via twitter or an official channel?

If anything, I'd imagine there would be something about them being pleased with the sales numbers and working on supporting the product post-release.

Do we even know if the game has sold well?

I know it has been at the top of the steam stats for a while but can we really extrapolate data from that alone?

 

[Clear]

The more I think about it (though I try not to ), the more I'm certain there have to be some (office) politics involved here.

Pretty much guaranteed to be a test-time issue. Performance variance on output resolution changes are minimal, internally its a whole order of magnitude of difference especially if they are using expensive multi-transparency overdraw passes like they do for dof effects.

They probably implemented the kick on low-framerate stuff to maintain integrity in the online game0 then realized that thanks to radically differing render-load depending on area allowing higher res throughout could cause problems for people on weaker hardware.

On the other hand it cpuld simply be Japanese stubborness in trying to enforce a uniform "feel" across all platforms. I remember a similar situation regarding FFXI and the whole windower situation. Essentially SE resisted PC users demands for a non-exclusive window mode because they argued it would give PC users an advantage over PS2 users.

Like this, fans created a dxhook to intercept the output and simply tweaked the internal framebuffer sizes (which were in the registry, although the confiog tool only supportefd certain subset of sizes) to allow for supersampled display. Eventually they realized they couldn't ban everyone for using this particular third-party app and relented.

Took them years to do though!

 

[1-D_FTW]

I want to believe this but when you think about they still ported the whole game to Windows, locked framebuffer or not, they must have had a capable team.

I know moving stuff from 360 to windows is easier than from PS3 to PC but that doesnt mean that all it took was to recompile the game, im sure they had to jump through tons of hurdles.

Im sure that once they told Namco how long QAing all resolutions would take, they just ordered them not to.

Why would that make an ounce of difference? They could have QA every supported resolution in under 5 minutes? Does it work? Click. Click. Click. Click. Yes? Done.

Whether or not it works on the infinite number of PC configurations in the wild is completely independent of resolution. That's an entirely separate issue. They had the same issue regardless of locked resolution or not.

 

[Ledsen]

On the other hand it cpuld simply be Japanese stubborness in trying to enforce a uniform "feel" across all platforms. I remember a similar situation regarding FFXI and the whole windower situation. Essentially SE resisted PC users demands for a non-exclusive window mode because they argued it would give PC users an advantage over PS2 users.

Pretty much the only explanation I could understand.

 

[Dodoman89]

Version 0.5 up now

No huge changes in this one, some small features people have been asking for and a tweak to the text box / button cut-off fix.

As for the Optimus issue: I know this is a big deal to those with NV laptops, but the only way to really fix it
1) is quite some effort to implement
2) may get the fix flagged as a cheat
I suggest bugging NV to make Optimus actually work as advertised (that is, by detecting DirectX, and not by a whitelist of executables)

Would you be able to make a separate fix just for Optimus users? It's extra effort, but I'm sure a lot of us Optimus users will send some donations your way.

 

[ArynCrinn]

At the end of the day it was Namco's insane port window, lack of proper funding, and wanting to deliver a very similar experience to people with a wide variety of setups. It's a double-edged sword to create a uniform feel and perfomance, on one hand you allow people on very modest machines to enjoy the game in it's console capacity. On the other hand you deny the options, tweaks and performance that us high end guys like to have. In the end, it wasn't possible to do both, not with the time, money and incentive on the table.

But seriously, why of all things did from do this with the splash screens? No reason for that.

 

[Zarx]

Do we even know if the game has sold well?

I know it has been at the top of the steam stats for a while but can we really extrapolate data from that alone?

Well it's not very scientific but with we use Tripwire Interactive's, peak steam players being ~10% of sales and the stats from here http://steamstatshistory.appspot.com/list (basically scrapes Steam's stats periodically and keeps a long term record) which has it's highest peak at 10,555. That would suggest that it's sold ~100k on Steam add a couple thousand for the non steam retail copies, and it's not looking too bad. Especially as they don't seem to have spent a lot of money porting it, and just a few web ads for advertising.

It also looks like the peak players is steadily increasing which is a good sign for legs. If it gets a good discount in the next holiday sale it could do really well.

 

[The Crimson Kid]

Check this post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41452645&postcount=2784

Huh. I copied all of those settings exactly into Inspector and set the display resolution equal to my monitor resolution of 1080p in DSfix and didn't get any SSAO.

Is there some way to force Inspector to take precedence over the regular Nvidia control panel settings? Or maybe it's a driver issue. Bummer.

 

[MGrant]

Huh. I copied all of those settings exactly into Inspector and set the display resolution equal to my monitor resolution of 1080p in DSfix and didn't get any SSAO.

Is there some way to force Inspector to take precedence over the regular Nvidia control panel settings? Or maybe it's a driver issue. Bummer.

What is your DOF resolution set at? I've heard that can be touchy.

 

[mash440]

Okay... This took me a while to work out, but I think I got it sorted.

Basically, as Durante mentioned earlier. ATI cards have problems when under low usage in that they throttle themselves between frames. This causes a cycle where the frame-rate constantly drops. This can be resolved by setting the graphic settings incredibly high, however this causes slow-down in the game when busy as you end up with no headroom.

By setting the game quality at normal levels, and having a background process use the GPU, you can have a much smoother frame-rate.

AMD fix for high end Radeon cards! (7900 series)

1. Download RadeonPro here.

2. Download FurMark here.

3. Configure RadeonPro to limit the FPS of FurMark to 60. This is important otherwise it will use up ALL your GPU.

4. Whilst playing Dark Souls run FurMark in the background, at an approriate window size. You are looking to have 30% to 40% GPU usage as a ball-park.

If anyone knows a more suitable program than this than FurMark, please suggest.

Edit: After extensive testing, this doesn't solve the problem. Frames are still dropped when there is GPU power to spare.

 

[scitek]

There's a power saving setting in Windows 7 that I had to turn off when I got my 670 because it was kicking on and destroying my framerate in games like Sonic Generations. Is that not the culprit here?

 

[mash440]

There's a power saving setting in Windows 7 that I had to turn off when I got my 670 because it was kicking on and destroying my framerate in games like Sonic Generations. Is that not the culprit here?

Definitely not. This is a power setting that is ingrained deeply into the GPU. It's basically designed to reduce the power usage to as little as 3W when not in use. What apparently is happening is the period between frames is enough to let it drop its wattage to a lower level that causes these slowdown issues.

There haven't been many PC games that are frame-capped at 30 FPS so it hasn't really been an issue for anyone before.

 

[ctrayne]

.

 

[Wario64]

 

[Gattsu25]

Who in the world is that?

 

[alr1ght]

Their comment should be "THANK YOU"

 

[Orayn]

Who in the world is that?

Game Informer editor who probably got in touch with someone from Namco-Bandai.

 

[Backfoggen]

Namco's comment:

 

[Corto]

Namco's comment:

Nah. This is it.

 

[Haunted]

I have no comment on Namco.

Damn this corporate world where we can't simply see/read the honest spontaneous reaction of some of the developers upon seeing screenshots of their game looking like it should have in the first place.

 

[Kaako]

Their comment should be "THANK YOU"

Seriously. This mod alone lead to some sales for the PC version, the least they can say is thank you!

 

[Easy_D]

So I'm using 0.3 and I don't understand what's wrong with the sun? (It looks perfectly fine!)

Also, ignore how muddy it looks, that's just Steam's screenshot tool. Looks pretty damn sharp in game.

 

[HoosTrax]

A Sony-esque bow of apology / mea culpa would be appreciated at the very least...

 

[NZNova]

Okay... This took me a while to work out, but I think I got it sorted.

Basically, as Durante mentioned earlier. ATI cards have problems when under low usage in that they throttle themselves between frames. This causes a cycle where the frame-rate constantly drops. This can be resolved by setting the graphic settings incredibly high, however this causes slow-down in the game when busy as you end up with no headroom.

By setting the game quality at normal levels, and having a background process use the GPU, you can have a much smoother frame-rate.

AMD fix for high end Radeon cards! (7900 series)

1. Download RadeonPro here.

2. Download FurMark here.

3. Configure RadeonPro to limit the FPS of FurMark to 60. This is important otherwise it will use up ALL your GPU.

4. Whilst playing Dark Souls run FurMark in the background, at an approriate window size. You are looking to have 30% to 40% GPU usage as a ball-park.

If anyone knows a more suitable program than this than FurMark, please suggest.

LOL, stuff like this makes me so glad I ditched my shitty AMD card.

 

[UrbanRats]

No comment is best comment.

 

[CambriaRising]

No one ever wants to admit fault and own up. There is no question that Durante (unintentionally) pushed a lot of people to actually buy the game when they were not going to at first, at least they could do is recognize that the guy exists.

 

[Felix Lighter]

LOL, stuff like this makes me so glad I ditched my shitty AMD card.

That is probably the most unnecessarily drastic way of forcing the GPU to work harder. I found jacking up AA, while downsampling from 3840 x 2160 to be enough to prevent the issue. Running FurMark in the background while playing is a hilarious way to fix the issue and it's funny that the game is so graphically non-intensive that someone could run FurMark while playing and still maintain the capped framerate.

 

[antitrop]

No comment, but you know they're relieved.

Durante's mod alone has no doubt been the cause behind a lot of purchases.

 

[legacyzero]

LOL, stuff like this makes me so glad I ditched my shitty AMD card.

Yeah, everybody is telling me to go Nvidia for my next build.

 

[Psy-Phi]

I have no comment on Namco.

Damn this corporate world where we can't simply see/read the honest spontaneous reaction of some of the developers upon seeing screenshots of their game looking like it should have in the first place.

Maybe things like.... I don't know, Sif's broken fur, or other graphic glitches that may have crept up with higher resolutions than the game was originally intended to run at are the reason they opted for the perfectly fine and playable resolution that they did?

I do love the mod, but I was fine playing it for 2 days without it. I could go back. I wanted to see if any issues crept up from people using it first. It's a whole lot of crying over split milk really. It's not the crispest appearing game, but it still was completely playable and fun and looked decent doing it.

I've been a PC gamer since the days of Duke Nukem, Commander Keen and Jill of the Jungle, so I know that we like our games to look better. But the amount of belly aching about this has been a bit on the obscene side.

I really do appreciate Durante's work however, but there are some comments about this situation that go too damn far.

Saying no comment is classy honestly.

 

[ctrayne]

.

 

[SpeedySwaf]

No one ever wants to admit fault and own up. There is no question that Durante (unintentionally) pushed a lot of people to actually buy the game when they were not going to at first, at least they could do is recognize that the guy exists.

The should make him a Black Phantom.

 

[Zaptruder]

No comment, but you know they're relieved.

Durante's mod alone has no doubt been the cause behind a lot of purchases.

I know I didn't purchase until I saw the hi-res mod and all the glorious screenshots myself.

 

[mash440]

That is probably the most unnecessarily drastic way of forcing the GPU to work harder. I found jacking up AA, while downsampling from 3840 x 2160 to be enough to prevent the issue. Running FurMark in the background while playing is a hilarious way to fix the issue and it's funny that the game is so graphically non-intensive that someone could run FurMark while playing and still maintain the capped framerate.

Aye, the problem with upping the framebuffer etc. is that it will make the game slow down too much during busy scenes and makes the GPU load change wildly.

I imagine it this way.

To prevent AMD cards having the slowdown problem, there needs to be a consistent high load.

Also, your are right... It is a hilarious solution, but as the owner of an AMD card it works.

Edit: ALSO. FurMark puts stress on the GPU 2x more often than Dark Souls.

Edit: After extensive testing, this doesn't solve the problem. Frames are still dropped when there is GPU power to spare.

 

[Busta SMurk]

Hey guys, I think I found a glitch, not sure if its related to this patch, although the screen it leaves me at reminds me of some of the screenshots people have posted when they have AA enabled. Not sure if this is a known glitch or not.

Edit: Link removed, because this isn't related to the patch after all. (Thanks BloodyBonzai for clarifying)

 

[Felix Lighter]

Maybe things like.... I don't know, Sif's broken fur, or other graphic glitches that may have crept up with higher resolutions than the game was originally intended to run at are the reason they opted for the perfectly fine and playable resolution that they did?

I do love the mod, but I was fine playing it for 2 days without it. I could go back. I wanted to see if any issues crept up from people using it first. It's a whole lot of crying over split milk really. It's not the crispest appearing game, but it still was completely playable and fun and looked decent doing it.

I've been a PC gamer since the days of Duke Nukem, Commander Keen and Jill of the Jungle, so I know that we like our games to look better. But the amount of belly aching about this has been a bit on the obscene side.

I really do appreciate Durante's work however, but there are some comments about this situation that go too damn far.

Saying no comment is classy honestly.

If Sif's fur is broken at higher resolutions, fix it. If there are other resolution related issues fix them. This is a product that they are selling for $40. Why is it acceptable to put so little effort into the port? $40 isn't bargain basement pricing. No one demanded that the port be released by August except Namco. No one set the budget for the port except Namco and no one allocated the resources for the port except for Namco.

 

[Dictator93]

I'm trying to get the SSAO tweak to work, but it's not sticking. I have resolution set to 1080p in both DSfix and the game itself. DOF is set to the standard 540.

As far as I can tell, nothing from Inspector is sticking, SSAO included. I followed the post with the settings to a T. Hrm.

Send me a PM with some screenshots of all your settings in inspector and in the ini and ill walk you through it

 

[Psy-Phi]

If Sif's fur is broken at higher resolutions, fix it. If there are other resolution related issues fix them. This is a product that they are selling for $40. Why is it acceptable to put so little effort into the port? $40 isn't bargain basement pricing. No one demanded that the port be released by August except Namco. No one set the budget for the port except Namco and no one allocated the resources for the port except for Namco.

It's easy to say fix it -- these guys haven't done a retail PC product before. They added new content, which is great, going back and trying to fix various problems caused by a resolution increase that otherwise don't exist doesn't sound trivial. And what if that broke the other fur effects in the game? Or caused other problems.

$40 is not your normal price point of $60, so we did save some cash -- also got some added DLC to tack on to that potential Greatest Hits price point edging it closer to $40 if it were GH.

You are right, no one demanded this now other than Namco. But if it weren't for penny pinchers and analysts within a company choosing the time and money to allocate to projects we may never get their IP's. Maybe they tried other resolutions and discovered the amount of work that would go in to fix everything would theoretically take longer than the budget allowed for? I'm not trying to be an appologist, I just know that it's acceptable as it launched. It's better than the Darksiders 2 port, at least we've got AA and Motion Blur options within the game and it doesn't feel like they did a shit job at porting it since the textures all work as intended.

 

[Revolutionary]

Damn this game looks good with Durante's mod and SSAO + MSAA

 

[epmode]

I'm not trying to be an appologist, I just know that it's acceptable as it launched. It's better than the Darksiders 2 port, at least we've got AA and Motion Blur options within the game and it doesn't feel like they did a shit job at porting it since the textures all work as intended.

Vanilla Dark Souls is one of the worst PC ports I've ever seen. Hell, it's up there with Saint's Row 2. I can't even remember the last time I've seen a 3D game with a locked internal framebuffer. You really can't excuse From/Namco just because Durante saved us all.

Darksiders 2 may not be a great port, but neither was the first game and it was still infinitely more acceptable than Dark Souls.

 

[Peterthumpa]

Tried everything, SSAO isn't working for me, used both AO flags, DOF resolution set to default, 540... nothing.

 

[Eyothrie]

You guys think its a good idea to set Steam to "not automatically update this game" in the game's options? I wouldn't want an update to break Durante's work. Thoughts?

 

[SOLDIER]

Anyone with an ATI card get SSAO to work?