"Other guys do it too!" is approximately the worst argument ever.
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Press Reset: The Story of Polygon - financed by Microsoft for $750,000
- Thread starter Grecco
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"Other guys do it too!" is approximately the worst argument ever.
You're culpable. You're all culpable!
milkybar1983
Member
just watched all 4 parts
nobody seems to be happy about what they are involved in?
nobody seems to be happy about what they are involved in?
They probably feel guilty, I would.
Metal Gear?!
Member
I think what Mr. Polygon is relying on is that (so far) Microsoft's divisions all fucking hate each other and never coordinate unless forced to at gunpoint:
Of course if they were ever to get their shit together...
Of course if they were ever to get their shit together...
Wait. You think branch A would pay from their own budget for branch B?
It's pretty pathetic that the majority of the posts in here are more up their own ass/more insane than the already insane self documentary.
If Microsoft wanted to buy review scores they could do it MUCH cheaper on a bigger scale by simply giving more fanboy blog type sites free copies of games and giving sites like IGN a timed exclusive with "can only run early if score is x or above" type nonsense.
Y'all nuts.
If Microsoft wanted to buy review scores they could do it MUCH cheaper on a bigger scale by simply giving more fanboy blog type sites free copies of games and giving sites like IGN a timed exclusive with "can only run early if score is x or above" type nonsense.
Y'all nuts.
I have no idea why this site is supposed to be a big deal. They have a few people I like (Leone and... well, Leone mainly), a lot I haven't heard of and a few I think have no business writing. So basically just like every other gaming website out there. Maybe it's just the fact that I see no need for traditional gaming websites anymore. I get news from GAF and podcasts, watch videos to judge my interest in a game and occasionally read interesting long-form articles from a huge variety of sources. Catch-all sites do nothing for me anymore.
The RebelFM podcast (which Gies used to be on) used some of their donated money to buy one of the hosts (not Gies) a new gaming computer, so he could stay up-to-date and talk about PC gaming on the podcast. I don't know if I'd call it "pocketing", but probably not a smart thing to do. The shitstorm has passed though.
The RebelFM podcast (which Gies used to be on) used some of their donated money to buy one of the hosts (not Gies) a new gaming computer, so he could stay up-to-date and talk about PC gaming on the podcast. I don't know if I'd call it "pocketing", but probably not a smart thing to do. The shitstorm has passed though.
I don't think this will lead to Verge/Polygon championing MS in any way. Though I think it's an absolutely stupid idea and among the most stupid ideas any gaming website has ever had.
The difference to regular ads is that they appear and get seen because of the content that's already there. When you create something specifically to be able to show some kind of ad, then this sends the wrong message. There's a difference between here are our ad spaces, choose wisely and what do you want promoted? We'll create content around that.
The thing that would bug me is that they're doing a special offer for a certain company and that makes the whole ad-business on their site completely unbalanced and the fact that their sales team can make them create content around these special ads is questionsable.
The difference to regular ads is that they appear and get seen because of the content that's already there. When you create something specifically to be able to show some kind of ad, then this sends the wrong message. There's a difference between here are our ad spaces, choose wisely and what do you want promoted? We'll create content around that.
The thing that would bug me is that they're doing a special offer for a certain company and that makes the whole ad-business on their site completely unbalanced and the fact that their sales team can make them create content around these special ads is questionsable.
Felix Lighter
Member
This is my take on the situation. I expect them to advertise gaming related products but the problem here is that the separation between sales and editorial appears to be a little hazy. In an ideal situation editorial creates the content they want to create and as far as they are concerned ads just appear on the site.
omg this is disgusting.
did he really say he was embarrassed to say he works with video games?
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
Umm...
Surely I'm not the only one who sees a problem here?
Edit: Ah, I'm not. Very well.
Using donations for a podcast, to buy stuff to make the podcast more interesting.
MADNESS
You may have good intentions, but this sounds so shady. Contractual stipulations with advertisers affecting the launch of a site? Have you got some exclusive feature you are going to launch with, or something?
whalleywhat
Member
I don't think you're gonna win any arguments this way.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I heard on GAF that it's just a Wordpress blog, sorry bro
It was a joke.
That said, this amount of time for a blog is a bit much. You guys better have some serious bells and whistles. I'm talking the best live blog system, etc.
Still, don't know why the wheel needs to be reinvented, nor why the site software is being made such a big focus on a content based site.
snoopeasystreet
Member
I don't think there's anything clandestine about Microsoft giving them money but christ, 750,000 for a documentary about a start up video game website.
MikeE21286
Member
Seems like an illegal amount of money to spend on something like this...
People already have their pre-disposed judgments about rebel fm and its hosts, so why does anybody need to win those posters over?
Hot Coldman
Banned
Saying "games journalism" a lot, and then feeding into the system more than anyone else. It's the NeoGAF way!
Doesn't make this any less weird, though.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Not likely. I'll just keep posting the gif of McElroy dancing with Skyrim, so that no one will forget that these guys are complete hacks.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
So before launch and they are already admitting that they are just "the same as everyone else", which when it comes to games journalism, isn't a good thing at all.
Note to self: add Polygon to the "Don't bother visiting" list.
Note to self: add Polygon to the "Don't bother visiting" list.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Nobody will forget these - even if the site ends up being amazing and not pitiful, and some of the writers change for the better, any misstep will be met with everything you've seen in this thread, piggybacking on all the other old shit as well like the Skyrim dancing gif and further and further back. They'll always be trying to fight their way out of it, and even if they are legitimately better at it, it'll come back to haunt them for years upon years. That's why you don't do shit like this - because it'll hang over your head for years, and people will pluck it out of the sky and throw it in your face.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Despite the (poor & misguided) defences by Polygon staff here, there are major problems with this entire launch / venture / scenario:
- Not one of these so called "top gaming editors" had the critical capacity to twig how inappropriate it would be to launch with content sponsored by Microsoft.
That suggests two troubling potential scenarios:
1. To what degree are these editors actually able to make independent, critical decisions?
2. Is editorial subservient to sales team deals?
- The entire documentary production is embarrassing, and worse, alienating for anyone beyond the 0.2% hipster wannabe-Kotaku editor crowd. The opposite of aspirational.
Say what you like about IGN editors (and I agree), but they know how to appeal to a mass audience and have hugely influential followings.
- Don't talk, show. Seriously, WTF is the website? No one cares about your journey, you're not even established. It comes off worse than a Justin Bieber bio.
A fresh approach in games media is not just needed, it's a massive opportunity for a new media owner.
- A site that does not accept ANY endemic advertising (highly engaged influencer audience 18-35 is the holy grail for almost ALL brand advertisers, selling to games publishers is just lazy).
- Has NO relationships between the gaming PR machine and its editorial, and is entirely, almost savagely independent/credible. The gaming PRs would be on their knees.
- Puts the user at the absolute centre of the experience, not ego-driven 'name' editors.
VOX/Polygon absolutely blew it.
- Not one of these so called "top gaming editors" had the critical capacity to twig how inappropriate it would be to launch with content sponsored by Microsoft.
That suggests two troubling potential scenarios:
1. To what degree are these editors actually able to make independent, critical decisions?
2. Is editorial subservient to sales team deals?
- The entire documentary production is embarrassing, and worse, alienating for anyone beyond the 0.2% hipster wannabe-Kotaku editor crowd. The opposite of aspirational.
Say what you like about IGN editors (and I agree), but they know how to appeal to a mass audience and have hugely influential followings.
- Don't talk, show. Seriously, WTF is the website? No one cares about your journey, you're not even established. It comes off worse than a Justin Bieber bio.
A fresh approach in games media is not just needed, it's a massive opportunity for a new media owner.
- A site that does not accept ANY endemic advertising (highly engaged influencer audience 18-35 is the holy grail for almost ALL brand advertisers, selling to games publishers is just lazy).
- Has NO relationships between the gaming PR machine and its editorial, and is entirely, almost savagely independent/credible. The gaming PRs would be on their knees.
- Puts the user at the absolute centre of the experience, not ego-driven 'name' editors.
VOX/Polygon absolutely blew it.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Not likely. I'll just keep posting the gif of McElroy dancing with Skyrim, so that no one will forget that these guys are complete hacks.
OK, let's clear something up- that was clearly a joke, no? That whole video was obviously comical in its intended nature. I never once understand why the majority of GAF cling to this in their endless crusade against those diabolical games writers.
I don't really see an incremental conflict of interest beyond the one normally generated by the reliance on endemic advertising; the scale and newness of the site (and some of the personalities of the site, frankly) make this smell worse than usual.
Regarding the New York Times comparison before-- come on. They have a "not even a cup of coffee" policy. Will polygon have the same?
Regarding the New York Times comparison before-- come on. They have a "not even a cup of coffee" policy. Will polygon have the same?
RedNumberFive
Banned
Are you asking if they're going to give up free games, swag, and trips, instead of refusing them as a "conflict of interest"?
I think we both know the answer to this.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Free swag is totally different from coffee, man.
Yeah, I can see that it's a problem when it wasn't really made clear beforehand, but when the other option "Did you play the latest Total War?" "Nope" is, then it makes sense.
The NYT has a century of world-changing editorial credibility. They earned it.
Polygon, The Polygon, The PolyVerge - whatever - hasn't even launched.
It has everything to prove.
And launching with a massive content deal (not even an ad deal, a paid content deal starring the site's own editors) is a stupendous error of judgement for all involved.
You realize 99% of swag that goes to non fanboy/blog sites end up getting stuck in a cluttered storage closet for years? Or if anything given to a reader or put on someone's desk/in someone's office to troll them?
Oh great another crappy video game t shirt or statue. I would like a game LESS if I got sent that bullshit.
Then people bring up stuff like trips to captivate. Go watch jeff's jar time video addressing that stuff. If anything it sucks to have to be inside with video games for 2-3 days when you are in a great foreign city because anyone worth a damn is spending that time working and has little to no chance to enjoy the location. The location is mostly hey the marketing department want to go to place X/Y/Z lets have our event there!
If anything more games would get good press if they held their events in San Francisco to avoid travel nonsense.
Edit: I don't understand the obsession with the Mcelroy skyrim dancing. It's clearly meant to be silly even if I don't find it that funny. It's the visual equivalent of someone on a podcast saying "I'm excited for game x to get here".
Now if some peeping Tom caught him secretly dancing with it by himself/not recorded as a joke it would be a time to encourage psychological help not "lol games press".
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I was ignoring this thread for the longest time and am now caught up. I get that money helps in making a doc on the site but this has red flags all over the place. I know you need money to get the site going but this all seems so over the top. It's great that the guys are trying to get the name out there and are playing the compassion/sympathy card by showing the families but this is not about that. You have to look past that facade and see that there's something wrong about taking an exceptional amount of money from MSFT. At the very least, conflict of interest surely rises and why shouldn't we think that?
I don't wish the site to burn but this surely isn't the way to build credibility.
I don't wish the site to burn but this surely isn't the way to build credibility.
All of a sudden?
They hired people like Kotaku's Brian Crecente, a man who copied a made-up (planted) rumor about a new "Xbox Pure" 360 SKU from the CheapAssGamer forums then went on a tirade against the site (claiming CAG threw their credibility out the window) after he was called out on it.
Felix Lighter
Member
Even though the business side of Polygon came up with the idea for documentary in the first place? I guess that's where things start looking worse than the typical game ads on a gaming site for me. If editorial decided they wanted to make the documentary and sales found a sponsor after the fact, it would seem par for the course but apparently that's not how it went down.
Edit: I'm not typically a strong anti-games-journalist guy. I think the Skyrim dancing gif is taken out of context and isn't nearly as damning as some think it is. This situation on the other hand just rubs me the wrong way.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The funny thing for me is that all I see is a company trying to repeat the whole "EDGE" schtick in an onlne form. Basically you take the same writers who've been working with the same credibility-deficient sites/publications and gather them together under a faux-superior banner and then slather with nu-media gloss and polish.
Its a packaging exercise with a gimmick, and unfortunately it looks like that gimmick is backfiring horrifically.
Its a packaging exercise with a gimmick, and unfortunately it looks like that gimmick is backfiring horrifically.
Wow hahaha. Why should anyone pay attention to the opinion of this bunch?
p.s.
$400k to make a year-long+ documentary on the development of Double Fine's new adventure game.
$750k for this crap.
I lol'd.
To me the issue is the clear ability of sales to influence the behavior of editorial. The hilarious claim that hobby magazines who rely on in-industry advertisement dollars to fund staff is generally that "sales and editorial are separate and never the twain shall meet." I guess in New Games Journalism the innovation is that directly influencing editorial time, energy and effort is a direct part of the sales pitch?
I do feel I have to question - somewhat - their ability to garner value for money out of the investment, too. As said before: DFA has a more enjoyable documentary which lasts longer and appears to have higher production values for a little around half that cost. Where's the money *going*?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Tattoos! Houses! Honestly I don't know.
On the other hand, "Microsoft is offering an insane amount of money to us to do this, why shouldn't we take it?"
Why wouldn't they take it?
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
RedNumberFive
Banned
Dancing lessons at Arthur Murray aren't cheap!
I hadn't heard of that, but one guy fucking up doesn't make the lot bad writers. If that's true, the guy is an asshole. Thinking of Gies in particular, I'll never balk at someone thinking he's a dickhead know it all. He's hard headed and opinionated, and he gets things wrong like any of us, but he comes across the wrong way a lot of times. I can identify with that personality but I get why he's disliked. His writing on the other hand is some of the only games writing I can stomach, honestly.
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