We're more likely to see the Wii U being the lead platform next gen rather than for any of the remainder of this gen. It's going to have the largest marketshare and developers in their right minds will target the lowest common denominator.
The sales of ZombiU, Black Ops 2, Assassins Creed 3, Rayman Legends, FIFA 13 and Aliens Colonial Marines will show publishers that there's a market for bringing 'hardcore' titles to the U. Some people are going to be surprised by seeing the U being the lead platform next gen I think.
Looking at this:
And this:
PC is leading next gen. Everything else is just porting down.
I don't get the stupid hate for IdeaMan. I mean he has proven that he has some informations, from actual developpers. None of them said ram is a bottleneck. None.
Now, I still think Wii U is more powerfull than PS360.
Not that much, but powerfull enough to run at least same games with one more screen.
Because yes, comparisons show only one screen. Wii U also render a second 480p screen. Now as far as I know, Wii U is like an Xbox 360+. Slightly more powerfull, newer tech so no need to fake some effects and finally enough power to render 2 scenes.
People says :"lol complaining about rushed port."
But it seems those games are rushed port. Rushed to be ready at line up, and developped by smaller B-team with limited budget.
why would anyone lead on wiiu?
But Bayonetta 2...
This system is ripping me to shreds. Nintendo hardware keeps getting worse and worse, but the games are enticing. Shoot... I have more Wii games than I do 360 or PS3(not together). The hardware is just so bad though...
It's kind of true though. Not the developers fault but the publishers making them create a port in 3 months tops.
We're more likely to see the Wii U being the lead platform next gen rather than for any of the remainder of this gen. It's going to have the largest marketshare and developers in their right minds will target the lowest common denominator.
The sales of ZombiU, Black Ops 2, Assassins Creed 3, Rayman Legends, FIFA 13 and Aliens Colonial Marines will show publishers that there's a market for bringing 'hardcore' titles to the U. Some people are going to be surprised by seeing the U being the lead platform next gen I think.
I Definitely think the sales of those games as well as the hardware will be telling. If all those games do sell very well on the Wii U it'll send a signal to publishers that they can make money on the platform, and that's ultimately what matters to them.
As for as the "leading platform," that usually ends up being the lowest common denominator hardware-wise that publishers think has a market for their games. If that market does turn out to present itself on the Wii U, then perhaps.
By this logic PC should have been the lead SKU with mostly console down-ports this gen. Instead things have been the other way around, with 360 being the lead SKU and every game being up-ported to PC.
I think that ultimately, either the Wii U or the weaker of the other two console will end up being the lead SKU for most games next gen. The most powerful hardware has never been the leading development platfrom in console gaming.
See, I'm not saying they don't look better than what we've got now, but they just don't look all that different to me.
That Agni's Philosophy demo.... that looked amazing, mind.
Wii U lead platform? I don't know... I think that's a very bold statement, especially considering that the other two aren't even out yet. In Japan, however, we can say with some accuracy that Wii U may indeed be the lead platform for some titles, but in the western regions, it will be either the PS4 or 720 (whichever has the higher install base). Not saying that Wii U doesn't have a chance in the west for lead platform, but I think it's not likely.
I By this logic PC should have been the lead SKU with mostly console down-ports this gen. Instead things have been the other way around, with 360 being the lead SKU and every game being up-ported to PC.
I think that ultimately, either the Wii U or the weaker of the other two console will end up being the lead SKU for most games next gen. The most powerful hardware has never been the leading development platfrom in console gaming.
It doesn't come down to brute force mate. Launch day ports on any new platform are a pain in the arse to work on - even Deep Thought would struggle with day one ports due to a completely new architecture and time needed to bring said port to the new platform amid constant SDK and hardware revisions.
You'll see patches during this next week or two fixing performance issues as per usual. This isn't anything new, although I guess this is the first time patches have been implemented on a Nintendo home console.
You'll find both the PS4 and 720 having the same problems with ports that the U is having now, no matter how much more powerful they are. It always happens with new hardware, has always happened in the past with new hardware and will always happen in the future with new hardware.
you coulda just said "lol lead platform"
So the Wii U has 43% slower, but 200% more RAM than PS360 (If counting the 1 GB for the OS)
Clearly many people don't have a fucking clue what 43% slower RAM even means in the context of the rest of the Wii U's components, of which most of them arent even known yet (CPU clockspeed, GPU, EDram) and how all of that is gonna interact with each other on a system that is architecturally diffent that the PS360.
Most of GAF has degraded themselves to ingnorant, fanboish trolls, not capably of any rational thought. Just like animals. Throw them some numbers and they'll glady jump on them with their premature conlusions and half-knowledge of things. I bet my immaginary dog knows as much as most of the people here about the Wii U's hardware, overall capacity or prospect of success in the market.
The PC is already the lead platform for next gen. The only question is how long that will last.I Definitely think the sales of those games as well as the hardware will be telling. If all those games do sell very well on the Wii U it'll send a signal to publishers that they can make money on the platform, and that's ultimately what matters to them.
As for as the "leading platform," that usually ends up being the lowest common denominator hardware-wise that publishers think has a market for their games. If that market does turn out to present itself on the Wii U, then perhaps.
By this logic PC should have been the lead SKU with mostly console down-ports this gen. Instead things have been the other way around, with 360 being the lead SKU and every game being up-ported to PC.
I think that ultimately, either the Wii U or the weaker of the other two console will end up being the lead SKU for most games next gen. The most powerful hardware has never been the leading development platfrom in console gaming.
No they weren't. The people with accurate info were being jumped on. And posts like Mlatador's certainly aren't helping to raise the level of discourse in this thread.Which is the whole problem with this debate atm. Looking back, the Wii Speculation and Wii Final Specs threads were much more mature in their discussions. I find thread titles like this premature
I am not a dev so maybe someone who is in the know can answer this.
From what we are seeing we aren't getting too much AA in these games. Originally there was some talk that this eDRAM would be able to pretty much provide "free AA" and possibly other post processing effects for free. However now that it seems to be required to prop up the ram does it no longer provide the benefits it could have if it was paired with faster ram since it is being leaned on so heavily?
No, from what I've been reading in many convoluted WiiU threads here, the GPU in the console has a bandwidth of about 50GB/sec which is about 4 times the bandwidth of the RAM. As a lay person, I thought that the system is only as fast as the slowest component. Thus, a GPU with around 12GB/sec should have sufficed given bandwidth the processing speed are two different things. In the regard, couldn't the system save on even more power?
why the fuck do people defend nintendo? they barely invest in making good hardware, with the NSMB series they barely invest in making decent games with one of their most beloved if not their MOST characters. Why do you people continue to defend and invest in a company that doesnt care about you anymore? we're no longer their target demographic. i say screw em.
The PC is already the lead platform for next gen. The only question is how long that will last.
Yeah, i'm worried about this. I was promised AA on games. I have yet to see a game that uses good AA on wii-UI am not a dev so maybe someone who is in the know can answer this.
From what we are seeing we aren't getting too much AA in these games. Originally there was some talk that this eDRAM would be able to pretty much provide "free AA" and possibly other post processing effects for free. However now that it seems to be required to prop up the ram does it no longer provide the benefits it could have if it was paired with faster ram since it is being leaned on so heavily?
While he may have had some legit info, you can't deny that there's an obvious slant in his posts. I'm not sure you can see it but anyone reading them objectively can. Any hint of bad news is always slanted and spun in a way to downplay it, just like we've seen with his posts in this thread regarding the ram and in the Metro thread regarding ports. You can read his post history and find this common trend. This is why people have been skeptical of him, despite the fact that his info is probably legit.I don't get the stupid hate for IdeaMan. I mean he has proven that he has some informations, from actual developpers. None of them said ram is a bottleneck. None.
Now, I still think Wii U is more powerfull than PS360.
Not that much, but powerfull enough to run at least same games with one more screen.
Because yes, comparisons show only one screen. Wii U also render a second 480p screen. Now as far as I know, Wii U is like an Xbox 360+. Slightly more powerfull, newer tech so no need to fake some effects and finally enough power to render 2 scenes.
People says :"lol complaining about rushed port."
But it seems those games are rushed port. Rushed to be ready at line up, and developped by smaller B-team with limited budget.
This is so far from the truth I'm not sure where to begin. Please see the gangbanging of Arkam in one of those speculation threads linked some pages back. Not to mention that this info on the ram speed is more solid than 90% of the vague insider info we were led to believe in the speculation threads.Which is the whole problem with this debate atm. Looking back, the Wii Speculation and Wii Final Specs threads were much more mature in their discussions. I find thread titles like this premature
I'm specifically talking about the Zelda tech demo.
By this logic PC should have been the lead SKU with mostly console down-ports this gen. Instead things have been the other way around, with 360 being the lead SKU and every game being up-ported to PC.
I think that ultimately, either the Wii U or the weaker of the other two console will end up being the lead SKU for most games next gen. The most powerful hardware has never been the leading development platfrom in console gaming.
I am not a dev so maybe someone who is in the know can answer this.
From what we are seeing we aren't getting too much AA in these games. Originally there was some talk that this eDRAM would be able to pretty much provide "free AA" and possibly other post processing effects for free. However now that it seems to be required to prop up the ram does it no longer provide the benefits it could have if it was paired with faster ram since it is being leaned on so heavily?
eDRAM being used for other things?
many high-utilization 360 games use tiling, but that wasn't very effective because of the slow RAM bandwidth of the 360.
This is so far from the truth I'm not sure where to begin. Please see the gangbanging of Arkam in one of those speculation threads linked some pages back.
the denial from wii u fans is matched only by the hubris of ps4 nextbox fans
An XB3/PS4 upport of a Wii U original will be a very different thing than an XB3/PS4 upport of a Wii U port from X360/PS3.i-Lo said:The WiiU is unable to properly handle current gen ports which are in their twilight years. If you are expecting that people will buy software made for XB3/PS4 that looks like an anti-aliased version of WiiU's release then you are delusional.
The difference is... we (Orbis/Durango fans) have somewhat tangible ideas on what the technical capabilities of next gen systems will be BASED on actual products and showcases thus far from Epic, Square, Crytek, and others. And at the very least we can expect a modest bump in terms of capabilities.
BUT... if Orbis and/or Durango land with RAM specifications below that of their predecessors AND a weaker CPU... then the streets (read: forums) will be lined with blood!
It was split between the 360 and Ps3 since they were both very powerful.
But it really comes down to the ease of development tools that makes the decision much easier.
However, the next gen consoles are closer to PC in architecture than ever before if rumours are true. Add to that the Direct X 11 capability and we are about to see a generational shift on PC, and the consoles from sony and MS are the impetus. Therefore, it makes absolutely zero sense to lead on WiiU when developing for XB3/PS4 and then porting to PC will not only be easier but also yield visual fidelity on a mainstream scale as displayed by SW1313, WatchDogs and beyond.
The difference is... we (Orbis/Durango fans) have somewhat tangible ideas on what the technical capabilities of next gen systems will be BASED on actual products and showcases thus far from Epic, Square, Crytek, and others. And at the very least we can expect a modest bump in terms of capabilities.
BUT... if Orbis and/or Durango land with RAM specifications below that of their predecessors AND a weaker CPU... then the streets (read: forums) will be lined with blood!
hehe, can't help but smile a bit upon reading this. Ideaman isn't a techhead, he never claimed to be, he's a former games journalist and i guess his understanding of technology is at least on par with such journalists as that idiot this weekend that kept insisting that the WiiU discs are standard DVD's. So there's that.
Further more, just to be clear, neither of you are techies either (me neither for that matter, only a fraction of posters on neogaf have any authority on the matter). But it's funny to see people with no more understanding of the WiiU tech than him, targeting him, labeling him as some nitwit. At least he has sources so i'll read what he has to say more carefully than most other posters, including you.
720p is HD too.The sad part is that they're not even in HD.
I really don't get why so many posters are upset about the Wii U and Nintendo. I assumed that by now most dedicated gamers (i.e people who game a lot) knew that Nintendo just has a different philosophy than Microsoft or Sony. Sure Nintendo could have maxed out specs for the Wii U and sold it at a huge loss but that isn't their strategy at all. They follow the blue ocean strategy and going toe to toe against Microsoft and sony is not a viable or even smart business course of action.
The Wii U was always about finding a new way to be different enough to get people who don't game all the time (read: casuals), to actually buy the thing. Nintendo made sure that the Wii U met the minimum HD requirements mostly because it rather be safe than sorry (plus the console comes with a completely unique control with it).
So yeah, The Wii U isnt true next gen (whatever that means), and there is no point in defending the system. It will fill a niche among people who will buy it for Nintendo games, and tons of casuals who will love the idea of a tablet controller that they can watch movies or do social network things on.
All these spec numbers only matter to a very small percentage of people who actually play games. Sony and Microsofts next system will be significantly stronger than the Wii U and that's okay. If gamers are afraid that the Wii U will be the lead console then they really a prematurely worrying about nothing. Sure japanese devs will support the Wii U, but for western devs they will keep putting their bests efforts on Sonys and Microsofts systems. If you don't like the Wii U, its pretty easy not to buy one.
With all this slow ram, slow CPU, and general doom talk about WiiU's power, it seems to me like people already forgot what Nintendo showed at E3. I'm specifically talking about the Zelda tech demo.
It may not look like a huge generational leap, but as far as I know this was put together in a few weeks with the Twilight princess assets and it looks pretty damn good
So what are you so worried about? If the second batch of WIIU games look like this (and I'm sure they will) I'm satisfied
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=zelda tech demo#/watch?v=27Lf4uVuE50
I wonder if people realize that if the 720 and PS4 get the 4-8GB of RAM that have been touted, they're going to have just as slow clock speeds as the Wii U... You can't get that much RAM for a decent price point without sacrificing something.
Because Nintendo is a games company, that makes games. No music, no movie, no format war bullshit etc. Games.why the fuck do people defend nintendo? they barely invest in making good hardware, with the NSMB series they barely invest in making decent games with one of their most beloved if not their MOST beloved character. Why do you people continue to defend and invest in a company that doesnt care about you anymore? we're no longer their target demographic. i say screw em.
FixedLooking at this:
And this:
DX11/Opengl4 is leading next gen.
Graphics don't push the console industry anymore, I dont know how to break it to you folks.
We have essentially reached a point where any idea a developer has for his game can be realized in HD on all 3 platforms. Sure one system may have a few more shadows here or there, but its been proven over and over that immersive gameplay trumps graphics.
This is why WiiU is ahead of the curve. They are thinking outside the box for ways the make the experience of playing games more immersive, not by upping the polygon count. I consider myself a non-biased gamer, who owns a 360, a PS3 and a gaming PC with a GTX 570. I had more fun playing ZombiU the other night than I can remember. Having radio messages coming in over the gamepad, sorting my inventory, scanning areas for loot, solving puzzles was very satisfying. The game looks great, and not once did I stop to think, "This sure could use some soft shadows and anti-aliasing...nyahhhh".
If the Kinect, Move, Wiimotes have proved anything, its that console manufacturers are looking for new immersive ways to present gameplay ideas. Its no longer a table flop contest to see who has the largest videocard under the hood.
why the fuck do people defend nintendo? they barely invest in making good hardware, with the NSMB series they barely invest in making decent games with one of their most beloved if not their MOST beloved character. Why do you people continue to defend and invest in a company that doesnt care about you anymore? we're no longer their target demographic. i say screw em.
Because Nintendo is a games company, that makes games. No music, no movie, no format war bullshit etc. Games.
And, without Nintendo game industry would crash and burn.
I wonder if people realize that if the 720 and PS4 get the 4-8GB of RAM that have been touted, they're going to have just as slow speeds as the Wii U... You can't get that much RAM for a decent price point without sacrificing something.