Hes talking about franchise sales, which will be easily doable with DSII
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Edge 249: Dark Souls II. To be more "direct," "straightforward," and "understandable"
- Thread starter Visualante2
- Start date
Hes talking about franchise sales, which will be easily doable with DSII
FateBreaker
Member
Looks like Namco-Bandai will have a big year for RPGs next year; Dark Souls II, Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch, Tales of Xillia, and possibly Tales of Xillia 2 (though unlikely; that's probably 2014).
SatelliteOfLove
Member
*smacks the Kool-aid out of Midou's hand*
Come back to us in reality, where this design decision is a gamble, and many games have lost installment-over-installment sales/subscriptions when this measure happens.
Easily doable? It isn't easily doable for any entry of any franchise in the video game industry.
Edit - Unless you mean 5+ million across the whole franchise once DS2 launches. That should happen.
Total franchise sales for Souls breaking 5 million is achievable with DaS II, seeing as Demon's and Dark have sold in excess of 1 million and 1.5 million respectively.
Same feeling here. I know its to early to judge, but what I have read so far really upset me. Demon Souls and Dark Souls is in my opinion by far the best games this generation. Please dont ruin the third one!! (Yeah From/Namco, Im looking at you!!!!)
I think you underestimate the role of marketing in Dark Souls' sales figures. Namco/Bandai did manage to sell the game to a larger audience. And in the process, they made a lot of people interested in the series, people who had never played DeS, and who now talk about the Souls games as their games of the generation.
It strikes me as pretty elitist and selfish to think that nobody outside the current roster of Souls players could be interested in a new Dark Souls.
Let's be serious here with what Scamco risks if they interfere with what made Dark Souls popular to begin with.
What the hell was their last game to chart on the NPD before Dark Souls? Tekken Tag sure didn't chart, Soulcalibur V didn't.
Dark Souls is basically their most popular property in North America at this point.
What the hell was their last game to chart on the NPD before Dark Souls? Tekken Tag sure didn't chart, Soulcalibur V didn't.
Dark Souls is basically their most popular property in North America at this point.
1.) Game gets noticed
2.) Game sells moderately well
3.) Publisher/Developer tries to take advantage of this and latches all hopes unto it
4.) Publisher/Developer forces changes unto the game that "streamline" it to go after larger market
5.) Game loses all sense of direction
6.) Game loses fans that made it popular in the first place due to it becoming a homogenized mess, and receives to gain any new fans
7.) Bankruptcy
2.) Game sells moderately well
3.) Publisher/Developer tries to take advantage of this and latches all hopes unto it
4.) Publisher/Developer forces changes unto the game that "streamline" it to go after larger market
5.) Game loses all sense of direction
6.) Game loses fans that made it popular in the first place due to it becoming a homogenized mess, and receives to gain any new fans
7.) Bankruptcy
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
I had no idea they owned the IP.
You would think they did with how much influence people in this thread seem to think they have over the series.
Exactly. You look at all the big games with single player, and almost all of them are easy, have a tiny learning curve, and go to great pains not to frustrate the player in anyway. Games that require patience, learning, and dealing with frustration are pretty damn rare.
The other thing that is really annoying is that AAA games do everything they can to stroke a players ego. Many gamers will only play a game on the hardest setting because they see themselves as a badass gamer. So to avoid the "ragequit followed by badmouthing of the game" phenomena, devs either have to have the hardest level be an unlock, or they just make the hardest level fairly easy.
Big time games have to be FUN FUN FUN. And if From is trying to make the jump from 1-2 million sales to 10 million+ skyrim/gta sales, they are going to have to change the game to make it fun.
And it isn't like we havent seen this before. The most recent example was Hitman. The developers were all saying crap like "oh we know what makes hitman hitman, and we totally respect the core audience. we are definately making a hitman game that will satisfy them. But we are also adding some other great stuff for people new to hitman" I'll be watch the marketing carefully of DSII to see if namco is going to follow this pattern of lying to the core while making a game for the masses.
Gotta love the lowest common denominator.
I think its particularly funny reading people complaining about The Walking Dead winning game of the year awards since its, "Not a game."
Well go play the majority of modern AAA games. You will essentially be placed in a hallway, where you can only accomplish one objective, no need for rational thought, and combat is usually as simple as point and click.
Modern Military Shooters like Call of Duty or Medal of Honor are the best examples of this. But even Skyrim is a great example as well, dungeons are just a straight line, and the combat and RPG elements are so 'streamlined' to require no need for rational thought.
Point, click, win, walk forward, repeat. They may doctor it up with visual effects, sounds, and maybe some alternate variables, like enemies throwing grenades in CoD, but you are essentially playing a visual novel if you break it down far enough.
Is this what we get having an industry trying to follow Hollywood in terms of experiences and "cinematic" scope?
I don't want any of that anymore. It's just like every summer blockbuster now. Same shit, different skin.
The second someone says adventure games like TWD or Visual Novels aren't games then I deduce that their opinion is worthless
Definitely one of the more annoying things posted around here
Arjen
Member
As someone who loves Skyrim and held off playing Dark Souls for a year because the fear of it being to difficult.
Please don't change a goddamn thing. Figuring out all the mechanics was really part of the fun for me, if you use your brains you can figure almsot everything out yourself. I don't need a map because the map is in my head, i don't need a questlog because the stuff i want to do is in my head.
Please don't change a goddamn thing. Figuring out all the mechanics was really part of the fun for me, if you use your brains you can figure almsot everything out yourself. I don't need a map because the map is in my head, i don't need a questlog because the stuff i want to do is in my head.
ii Stryker
Banned
I hate dark souls because of its ridiculous difficulty and I applaud them for attempting to make the game more accessible to me.
I consider myself a hardcore gamer but I see NO reward for constantly sitting in a "you died" screen. I don't play games to be challenged I play for escapism and as long as they can leave the masochist mode intact I see no issue with them trying to appeal to a broader audience.
The way they implemented co-op is straight up garbage though. if I want to play through with a friend then for fucksake just let me don't make me jump through a bunch of goddam hoops to do so.
I consider myself a hardcore gamer but I see NO reward for constantly sitting in a "you died" screen. I don't play games to be challenged I play for escapism and as long as they can leave the masochist mode intact I see no issue with them trying to appeal to a broader audience.
The way they implemented co-op is straight up garbage though. if I want to play through with a friend then for fucksake just let me don't make me jump through a bunch of goddam hoops to do so.
Shin Kojima
Banned
Ahaha oh man the number of times I've heard people say something along these lines in the context of the Souls games...
Why do you want our game though? There's plenty of easy stuff for you out there.
Dark Souls is not for you. Get the fuck out. 99% of games are catered to your more casual interests.
Play a different game then
I consider you a bad gamer.
You missed the whole point of Dark Souls, and I hope they dont cater to your "hardcore" way.
everyone else said:
And they're right. Go play something else (it's available in large quantities). You can get 30 flavors of ice cream with sprinkles, but no... you have to demand that the last remaining flavor that doesn't come with sprinkles now come with sprinkles.
linko9
Member
I say start with demon's, if only because it may be hard going back to demon's if you've already played Dark (especially because of the carry weight). But you should absolutely play them both.
ii Stryker
Banned
It's not "your" game though, it's Namco/Bandai's game and clearly they see no benefit of exclusively catering to a small niche crowd of gamers.
I dont see why they can't leave the masochist mode intact while making a mode that's not quite so relentlessly punishing for players like me. I do like the fact that he game punishes you for entering areas you're too inexperienced for unfortunately the game punishes you for going the correct way also.
I don't see it as a case of either or. They can do both.
But the only reason the series got the recognition and fanbase it has now is because it cater to the niche masochist crowd.
Look at Ninja Gaiden 3 for a rough comparison. Hell, even look at ME3. You don't seem to understand how markets work.
The Xtortionist
Member
But Dark Souls isn't even that difficult. The summoning interface will take a few minutes of reading the wiki to understand but it makes pretty much every challenge in the game trivial. Plus the backstab technique wastes the majority of enemies in the game with minimal effort. All that's left it to be a little patient.
Machochist is not the word I would use to describe Dark Souls. Go play some Expert tracks in Trials.
Machochist is not the word I would use to describe Dark Souls. Go play some Expert tracks in Trials.
NinjaBoiX
Member
This is good news. I've just given up on Dark Souls, it's just too damned hard, I haven't got the time. Same with Demons souls, I get the appeal, but I don't have the time, or the skill apparently.
Edit: why do people say, "it's not even difficult". I mean, it just is! I don't know what to tell you, it's one of the hardest games you can buy. It's incredibly punishing, obtuse and about as transparent as a block of wood. Not bashing the game, it's fantastic, but this ludicrous notion that it isn't even hard is crazy.
Edit: why do people say, "it's not even difficult". I mean, it just is! I don't know what to tell you, it's one of the hardest games you can buy. It's incredibly punishing, obtuse and about as transparent as a block of wood. Not bashing the game, it's fantastic, but this ludicrous notion that it isn't even hard is crazy.
This post has been in every page of this thread multiple times and often debunked multiple times with long walls of text.
There is no way of adding an "easy" mode to appease people who can't be bothered to learn how to play the game without it impacting the default game mode for the rest of us.
This thread is a microcosm for the video game industry as a whole. "Hardcore" game, moving into the "mainstream", (maybe) sacrificing the hardcore audience that got it to the mainstream in the first place.
I'm sure even the new guy will be able to deliver a game that we all love and are deeply challenged by. Hopefully without the technical issues this time. Straight up co-op would be nice this time too. Or 4p co-op! That would be awesome.
I'm sure even the new guy will be able to deliver a game that we all love and are deeply challenged by. Hopefully without the technical issues this time. Straight up co-op would be nice this time too. Or 4p co-op! That would be awesome.
Actually, it looks to me that it is at the very least a shared copyright between FromSoftware and Namco Bandai, unlike Demon's Souls, so it probably is possible for From to freeze things if they aren't given enough control. Anyways, I think the bigger problem with including separate modes is that they divide the playerbase, in this case TOOLS within a single mode will do more good. And we did see Dark Souls go further than Demon's Souls there: you got bonfires that served as checkpoints and made it more convenient to reach bosses from, you can summon AI help if there's no one to play with or you're offline, and you can stay Hollowed at no penalty beyond looking ugly and being unable to summon help unlike Demon's Souls.
What may work is improving the AI to be good enough to go a whole level through, making Humanity (I assume they're keeping that) more reliable to acquire, and erring on the side of being too easy if they can't put in the proper polish for an area so we don't get more cases like Lost Izalith. Doing something similar to King's Field with maps as mentioned earlier would be good too, you'd have a map to follow, but need to take the time to actually process where you are in it.
EDIT: And it is worth considering just from a business standpoint that trying to aim for the wider market doesn't inherently work all the time. Ninja Gaiden 3's a great example there, it's not every time a game can do it as well (relatively) as something like Elder Scrolls did. That, and there's something to be said for diversity and targetting under served audiences, if the whole industry operated under the logic of ALWAYS hitting the largest crowd possible with successfully profiting off a smaller niche as a "failure" (and a relatively sizable one given Dark Souls sales!) we'd only have a very small handful of core games, some Nintendo titles, and a few casual games.
H_Prestige
Banned
It wouldn't be demon's souls then...
The Xtortionist
Member
The only thing holding Dark Souls back from being mainstream is its poor explanation of systems. Summoning phantoms is basically the much hated super guide from NSMB only you don't have to die X number of times to use it.
Arjen
Member
Like i said, i held of playing Dark Souls because i thought it would be to hard.
But it's really not that hard, not like Ninja Gaiden or something where you need crazy reflexes and do difficult combos. You just need to be patient, look at the attack pattern of an enemy and just wait for an opening.
I play games like Bayonetta on easy, because normal is just to frustrating for me, but i didn't have much trouble save for a few bosses in Dark Souls
But it's really not that hard, not like Ninja Gaiden or something where you need crazy reflexes and do difficult combos. You just need to be patient, look at the attack pattern of an enemy and just wait for an opening.
I play games like Bayonetta on easy, because normal is just to frustrating for me, but i didn't have much trouble save for a few bosses in Dark Souls
& how would you balance that?
linko9
Member
Nice. And it's just got the PC DVD-ROM logo, no GFW(L) association at all. Though I'm really not sure that means anything.
The Xtortionist
Member
Coop is already unbalanced with 3 players
If anything, easier ways to set up coop would make the game more challenging since inexperienced players would most likely play with their inexperienced friends instead of randomly getting matched up with godlike sunbros with uber weapons that kill bosses in like 3 hits.
Yeah, giving a good, not-obnoxious way to properly explain mechanics would do a LOT of good to making it accessible without being overbearing, possibly a respec system too (although that probably has to come with a fairly heavy penalty; maybe you just straight up give up the levels with no compensation then have to earn them again?)
You don't have to play easy mode. Why does it matter if someone else plays a easier game?
It's not. It's fucking not.
You just need to LEARN the game. Learn the enemies. Learn the environments. Learn the combat. After you learned it properly, you will fly through it on your next playthrough. It's also not incredibly punishing. You play, you die somewhere, but you don't lose all the items you found. You also get a second chance to get your souls back.
Most people that say this have never played it at all. And because of such people it took me years till I played Demon's Souls, because I thought it would be Ninja Gaiden NES hard. It's not. It's not even Zelda II NES hard. It's difficult in comparison to the hand-holding, quest-log-having, grind-to-win, platformer-with-auto-jump games of the current generation.
I don't entirely agree. Though I think a more thorough explanation of the systems and the ways they interact with each other would go a long way in helping a lot of people more easily understand the game, I still think the game would hand them their asses 90% of the time and in doing so turn off large, large numbers of players.
We've cultivated this attitude in the game industry throughout many many years so it's not entirely shocking that when a game that reminds people of the old days of challenge and difficulty is flat out "too hard" for many players of today.
Lol. It occurs to me that Felicia Day probably looks prettier killing things than I do in any genre.
Fucked if I know, not really my area. I can tell you that I have the buy-and-play end on lock though.
Haha. This. When people first described Demon's Souls to me I expected this to be the case. Thankfully, it's not.
ii Stryker
Banned
I'm not suggesting the eliminate or modify what you guys love about the game/s. all I'm hoping they'll do is add an entirely separate mode that allows me to garner some modicum of enjoyment from the IP.