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[Opiate]

shame.

It fits thematically: constants and variables. Lots of ways to get through the game, only one way for it to end.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

But I don't think videogames have to necessarily stick to conventional literary wisdom all the time.

You right. Because is a totally different medium with it own set of narrative rules and conventions.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

1) Without Lady Comstock being Elizabeth, there is always a DeWitt and an Elizabeth. Comstock will always steal Anna from another version of himself. This is a constant in the story.

I disagree with you on that since I look it on another perspective. IMO there must always be a DeWitt and Elizabeth archetype. In the original Bioshock dimension it was Jack Ryan and the Little Girls, in DeWitt's dimension it was Anna DeWitt, and in Compstock it was Lady Compston

2) This is my point though. If he wanted a daughter of his own, what was wrong with Lady Comstock if she was Elizabeth? Unless you think that in the Comstock timelines, Elizabeth still existed without being Booker's daughter but that is a stretch IMO. I think she has to be his daughter.

He was sterile.

The door mistook Elizabeth for Lady Comstock but that is it. I would argue that Booker and Comstock found the same women in their respective realities so Elizabeth would have a resemblence to the person who would be her mother in another reality. If they were the same exact person, the door would have opened when Liz scanned her hand.

It could also be because she was missing a pinky.

Note though, that I agree that it's pretty far fetched. Still I think it's an interesting theory to think about

 

[jacksepticeye]

I'm still with you, I associate death with the office as well and I believe that all the way through until you are visiting the office at the end of the game during the Elizabeth Grand Tour. At that point, she is walking you through different realities so you aren't a new Booker when you are visiting the office this time.

The big one for me is the numbers 122 and 123. Bells at the start sequence is 1-2-2 meaning you're Booker 122. You flip the coin for the 123rd time meaning after you died in the baptism at the start you became Booker 123.

I can't see Columbians accepting someone from "The sodom below" so easily. So the priest drowns you (this one doesn't look clean to me)

 

[Apophenia Overload]

So basically the ending is Stephen King's

Spoiler

The Dark Tower

.

 

[jacksepticeye]

So basically the ending is Stephen King's

Spoiler

The Dark Tower

.

People have been drawing huge similarities to that yeah. I haven't read it though

 

[LiK]

Not shame at all, the story calls for one and only one ending. This is the only way things could get resolved. Even if they decided to add in an ending where you fight the songbird instead, he would just end up smashing in your skull anyway and a new Booker would come along who hopefully, would not fight the songbird and continue along to this one and only ending.

It fits thematically: constants and variables. Lots of ways to get through the game, only one way for it to end.

i know, but i wouldn't mind something just a lil extra. but that's okay.

 

[Opiate]

Phew. Anyway, I respect your opinion and that you took the time to write it out. But I don't think videogames have to necessarily stick to conventional literary wisdom all the time. Sure, it stumbles here and there, but overall I think it's a terrific achievement and one of the best stories told in the medium.

I don't think I disagree, but saying "one of the best stories told in the medium" would be damning with faint praise from me.

Games aren't particularly good at telling stories, almost by definition, because the listener has so much agency. As another example, somewhere out there is a painting that is the best painting in the world at telling a story, but that doesn't really make it good at telling a story relative to other mediums which are entirely focused on storytelling, like novels, plays and films.

That isn't to say that painting (and video games) don't have their own strengths, mind you. They can do complex things we should respect. Every medium has its strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Anyone find it funny that Booker calls a city under the sea ridiculous when he's spent God knows how long exploring/fighting/etc in a floating city?

 

[Sorian]

I disagree with you on that since I look it on another perspective. IMO there must always be a DeWitt and Elizabeth archetype. In the original Bioshock dimension it was Jack Ryan and the Little Girls, in DeWitt's dimension it was Anna DeWitt, and in Compstock it was Lady Compston

I'll just nitpick this one because it's easy to be devil's advocate here.

You appear to be drawing parallels from Booker's non-baptised reality, if that is the case, I believe the parallel calls for a lighthouse, a man, a city, a girl, and a protector. You've noted the man and the girl. What is the city, lighthouse, and protector?

Anyone find it funny that Booker calls a city under the sea ridiculous when he's spent God knows how long exploring/fighting/etc in a floating city?

To be fair, I think it is easy to forget you are in the sky while in Columbia. Rapture tends to always be showing you that you are underwater and let's be real a second. The line was just meant to be an ironic jab

 

[Skytylz]

Anyone find it funny that Booker calls a city under the sea ridiculous when he's spent God knows how long exploring/fighting/etc in a floating city?

That's the joke.

 

[dan2026]

How dumb am I?

I only just realised the significance of the title Bioshock INFINITE.

 

[LiK]

Anyone find it funny that Booker calls a city under the sea ridiculous when he's spent God knows how long exploring/fighting/etc in a floating city?

just a lil joke from Mr. Levine, imo.

 

[Noray]

I don't think I disagree, but saying "one of the best stories told in the medium" would be damning with faint praise from me.

Games aren't particularly good at telling stories, almost by definition, because the listener has so much agency. As another example, somewhere out there is a painting that is the best painting in the world at telling a story, but that doesn't really make it good at telling a story relative to other mediums which are entirely focused on storytelling, like novels, plays and films.

That isn't to say that painting (and video games) don't have their own strengths, mind you. They can do complex things we should respect. Every medium has its strengths and weaknesses.

Oh I agree with you, but games can do certain elements of storytelling very, very well. World-building and lore, for one thing. Like I said, for me, playing Bioshock Infinite wasn't ABOUT shooting guys, it was about trying to piece the story together as it was going along. It's part of the game, as I see it. Considering that I think first-person shooters is one of the worst genres of games to tell a story in, they did an amazing job, and even without that qualifier, haters be damned, I think it's an amazing story, and it could ONLY have been a game, because so much of HOW it tells its story hinges on it being one.

 

[jacksepticeye]

How dumb am I?

I only just realised the significance of the title Bioshock INFINITE.

Don't worry, you're not the first

 

[Sorian]

Oh I agree with you, but games can do certain elements of storytelling very, very well. World-building and lore, for one thing. Like I said, for me, playing Bioshock Infinite wasn't ABOUT shooting guys, it was about trying to piece the story together as it was going along. It's part of the game, as I see it. Considering that I think first-person shooters is one of the worst genres of games to tell a story in, they did an amazing job, and even without that qualifier, haters be damned, I think it's an amazing story, and it could ONLY have been a game, because so much of HOW it tells its story hinges on it being one.

I have to agree here as well. I think there are some stories that can only be told well through this medium and those stories tend to be some of my favorites. A game I know most people haven't played is Ever17 (its a visual novel through and through so some people won't accept that it is labeled as a game). The story and the plot could not have worked in any other medium. Everything hinged on the story being a game (I won't say why just to shy away from spoilers but anyone who played it knows what I mean).

 

[endresults]

If they succeed he will have never died in the first place. We know he was loyal to Comstock and planning to kill the False Shepard via this:

Perhaps the reason for the brutality (although do we know he was actually tortured? There's a hole on the bag so maybe he was shot, the knife and chisel were then left there having been dipped in blood or used post mortem) is because in another universe Booker simply went to Paris with Elizabeth due to not being adequetly scared.

Fantastic explanation. This works.

 

[Sorian]

If they succeed he will have never died in the first place. We know he was loyal to Comstock and planning to kill the False Shepard via this:

Perhaps the reason for the brutality (although do we know he was actually tortured? There's a hole on the bag so maybe he was shot, the knife and chisel were then left there having been dipped in blood or used post mortem) is because in another universe Booker simply went to Paris with Elizabeth due to not being adequetly scared.

Damn it, you know if they went to Paris then some incest happened in that reality.

 

[LiK]

Damn it, you know if they went to Paris then some incest happened in that reality.

probably why it should never happen. destroying Comstock prevents that from happening as well. hohoho, oh man...dark thoughts

 

[BigAT]

Just finished the game, is there any sort of collection of all the Easter eggs/little things in the game? I was pretty thorough in looking around, but I'm sure I still missed a ton.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I just read on reddit that the old French name of Paris was Lutèce. WTF?

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutèce

 

[LiK]

Just finished the game, is there any sort of collection of all the Easter eggs/little things in the game? I was pretty thorough in looking around, but I'm sure I still missed a ton.

i missed the guitar scene in Shantytown. that was a major one.

 

[BigAT]

i missed the guitar scene in Shantytown. that was a major one.

That's a shame, it's a great one.

 

[LiK]

That's a shame, it's a great one.

i don't even know how. i explored everywhere.

 

[K' Dash]

THIS, the nosebleeds are one of the things i still feel foggy about. It feels like it's when you're remembering or not remembering something from an alternate universe

Watch the Butterfly Effect, or read this:

[Evan's] assimilation of dozens of years' worth of new memories from the alternate timelines causes his brain damage and severe nosebleeds. Ultimately, he decides that his attempts to alter the past end up only harming those he cares about, and realizes that the main cause of everyone's suffering in all the different timelines is himself.

And additionally, if you notice, he starts bleeding when he's remembering things from other timelines.

 

[Tummi Gummi]

No secret ending. Everything is constant.

Incorrect. 1999 mode ends with Levine's original vision for

Spoiler

Tribes: Vengeance

 

[klinkcow]

just a lil joke from Mr. Levine, imo.

precisely

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I cried like a girl you guys....Like a damn pre-teen girl.

 

[LiK]

I cried like a girl you guys....Like a damn pre-teen girl.

there there, i almost cried.

 

[Sorian]

I cried like a man you guys....Like a damn sterioid-injected man

Fixed for ya!

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Fixed for ya!

Haha. Thanks.


When you try to rip Elizabeth out of Comstocks hands and the portal closes man I just couldn't help it.
When did you guys start to suspect you and Comstock were the same?

I started bouncing it around as a possibility when your in the battle of wounded knee and they keep saying over and over
that Comstock was never there but you were. For some reason it stuck with me. I never thought Elizabeth was your daughter though.

 

[Sorian]

Haha. Thanks.


When you try to rip Elizabeth out of Comstocks hands and the portal closes man I just couldn't help it.

I probably would have lost it too but it was hard to sympathize with Booker, he was kind of an asshole in his early years and I couldn't grieve for him even though I knew he at least became a better person after 20 years of guilt and grief.

 

[Andrew.]

I get that Liz is god and all that...

But I seriously doubt anyone used the term "all the rage" back in 1912 as Liz explains thimbles being "All the rage back in Paris" on the way to Shantytown.

Bookers response shouldve been "All the what?"

 

[Riposte]

Yeah, I totally would have cried, but I'm not a wuss so I couldn't.

 

[Voice of Reason]

there there, i almost cried.

Especially the scene where he tries to cancel the deal.

 

[Sorian]

Yeah, I totally would have cried, but I'm not a wuss so I couldn't.

heh

 

[Riposte]

heh

Now that was a sad death scene. I hear "Chris" in my dreams.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Especially the scene where he tries to cancel the deal.

My jaw was on the floor for most of the ending sequence, when everything fell into place. It was a very well-done sequence.

Is Ken Levine the new Peter Molyneux? Hopefully without the end result?

 

[LiK]

My jaw was on the floor for most of the ending sequence, when everything fell into place. It was a very well-done sequence.

Is Ken Levine the new Peter Molyneux? Hopefully without the end result?

thank gawd Levine doesn't spout nonsense and false promises.

 

[Andrew.]

Is Ken Levine the new Peter Molyneux?

Quit insulting The Levine.

 

[Freezasaurus]

thank gawd Levine doesn't spout nonsense and false promises.

Well, yes. But Molyneux was an extremely creative designer for a time. That's more what I was referring to.

I didn't realize Molyneux was an insult. I'M SORRY!

 

[Gorillaz]

Didn't cry over it, but when the wheels started turning in my head on how it all happened made me feel pretty bad.

 

[MormaPope]

I cried like a girl you guys....Like a damn pre-teen girl.

What hit me in the gut even more was the scene right before that one, where brother Lutece comes to collect Elizabeth, at that moment it hit me that Elizabeth was his daughter, and because of Booker's own actions or the actions of the other Booker, Elizabeth had to endure so much pain and suffering.

I stood in the room just awe struck.

 

[Sullichin]

So basically the ending is Stephen King's

Spoiler

The Dark Tower

.

Yep, this is how I felt. Lots of similarities. Almost felt like there was no twist because I saw where it was going pretty much having read that. Although this is not a complaint! And some of the actual details still surprised me, just not how it ends up.

Returning to Rapture felt a lot like

Spoiler

Blaine traveling to the Topeka, Kansas of The Stand

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

What hit me in the gut even more was the scene right before that one, where brother Lutece comes to collect Elizabeth, at that moment it hit me that Elizabeth was his daughter, and because of Booker's own actions or the actions of the other Booker, Elizabeth had to endure so much pain and suffering.

I stood in the room just awe struck.

That scene set me up and then the next one just bowled me over.

Yeah, I totally would have cried, but I'm not a wuss so I couldn't.

Hahaha. I drank a cranberry juice right after. I feel good now.

 

[LiK]

Well, yes. But Molyneux was an extremely creative designer for a time. That's more what I was referring to.

i know, Molyneux has a ton of ideas but he isn't able to execute them.

 

[Sorian]

thank gawd Levine doesn't spout nonsense and false promises.

I think I was promised a godly songbird boss fight at some point during these 3 years that the game has been announced. Levine is the new false prophet.

 

[Tummi Gummi]

thank gawd Levine doesn't spout nonsense and false promises.

1999 mode, "revolutionary AI" et al.

But I'd still happily buy a Levine-helmed game. Molyneux's involvement in a project actually turns me off.

 

[LiK]

1999 mode, "revolutionary AI" et al.

But I'd still happily buy a Levine-helmed game. Molyneux's involvement in a project actually turns me off.

did he say that? ah...

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I don't think I disagree, but saying "one of the best stories told in the medium" would be damning with faint praise from me.

Games aren't particularly good at telling stories, almost by definition, because the listener has so much agency. As another example, somewhere out there is a painting that is the best painting in the world at telling a story, but that doesn't really make it good at telling a story relative to other mediums which are entirely focused on storytelling, like novels, plays and films.

That isn't to say that painting (and video games) don't have their own strengths, mind you. They can do complex things we should respect. Every medium has its strengths and weaknesses.

I completely agree with where your coming from but I have to point out something interesting that happened to me while playing Bioshock that I have only experienced with great books or long running movies or shows. I became so wrapped up in the world and the characters that as I could feel it drawing to a close I started to get a serious knot in my stomach that I knew this game was going to leave behind a hole once it was over. I have never had that happen. Never once with a game.

Even my favorite narrative focused games of all time have never had that effect on me. Now that its over I don't want to start the game over and I also don't want to start another game. I just want to think about it for a while and what a great journey it was to be a part of.

That to me makes Bioshock Infinite a pretty momentous accomplishment.