R_thanatos
Member
lol @ nothing
Should we link you to the amazing list of bad press those tweet created ?
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Adam Orth no longer with Microsoft
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
lol @ nothing
Should we link you to the amazing list of bad press those tweet created ?
On that note, might wanna make your avatar a little more SFW.
blame space
Banned
damn
For what he said, and how dumb it was, I don't know how his personality lead to the job he got.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Or maybe the mob is a screaming one because they get fucked by companies as often as they do?
So that when someone acts like Orth did...yeah...things get a bit crazy.
A course of action was taken sure... but I'm not sure if it was the most optimal course of action.
On one hand, the damage done due to his thoughtlessness was significant. On the other... if we're supposed to learn by our mistakes - then this guy just learnt a valuable lesson.
I guess, in a culture that doesn't value the experience we glean from learning from failures, we castigate those that express human foibles at inopportune moments.
But something of value (the lesson learnt) is lost in the process.
I mean... the damage was already done - so firing him or not firing him wouldn't have changed the outcome of the situation in that regard. Ostensibly you fire him with the view that these mistakes aren't repeated. But... what are they going to do? Hire some new guy that may or may not understand the value of not shooting of ones mouth on twitter? At least this guy has had the first had experience of social media blowing up in his face.
Of course, if Microsoft deemed that this guy was too stupid and or arrogant to learn the lessons needed... then they're well within their right to fire.
Still, I'm not particularly aggreived by this guy losing his job. He was a class A doucheknuckle. I'm just saying that there's a flipside to keeping/firing employees that make mistakes.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
MS didn't have to fire him and he didn't have to step down. In a year he would be "that guy who said that stupid shit".
Eighty Deuce
Banned
Damn internet, you scary.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Short term...termination of employment did not change the outcome.
Long term...it sends a message to all of the other Microsoft employees that before tweeting...use your goddamn head.
You make a value judgment on several levels. Is he a unique, indispensable talent? Is he a genuinely good person who acted rashly but will learn and grow from the mistake? Is the company able to save face without removing him? Clearly there weren't any yeses.
I suppose that's a viable argument. And one that I would've probably made had I not been trying to make the "there's value gained in mistakes made" argument.
A consistent across the board rule that is reinforced in a fair and consistent manner does have a way of reinforcing desirable behaviour.
But it doesn't necessarily teach or explain why that behaviour is desirable. It's just a rule.
Meus Renaissance
Member
I lost it here
Jacksonlee
Member
i had to look up the handful of words you threw out there, and thanks are given.
also, i think, by firing him - he becomes an example for the next guy that gets hired - dont frikin be a douchebag
"That guy who leaked information for our next big risk/investment in a bad way, further kicking up a negativity duststorm around our product" might be how MS remembered it.
Do you have more information about Mr Orth than the tweets he made on that one night? I'm not so ready to make those value judgements on that basis alone. I assume people in Microsoft would have access to more of that information. I simply bring up points of why it might not be desirable to fire someone despite them acting like an ass like he did.
Neuromancer
Member
Did you look up doucheknuckle? What does it mean?
Do we have that info or are you inferring that because he got fired. If that is the case then you have to allow for the possibility that MS bowed to pressure and fired him despite there being "yeses".
If an employee this day in age doesnt know who how to shut up on twitter, especially in this manner, then there is no remorse. He should have known better, as the CREATIVE DIRECTOR. He is a representative of that division.
He made his passive aggressive, admittedly trolling comments public. It was his grave to dig.
He made his passive aggressive, admittedly trolling comments public. It was his grave to dig.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
We are pretty "dialed in" as far as what the potential damage done might involve regarding the disclosure of feature(s) of Microsoft's new console.
I think it's pretty safe to say that the majority of people in Microsoft's game division know why what he did is wrong...or at least considered a significant career limiting move.
It's really not that complicated as needing to spell out precisely what is and what isn't allowed.
I bet Orth knows precisely why he was let go and won't make the mistake again. I bet a number of people at Microsoft know why Orth was let go and they won't make the mistake Orth did.
From where?
CaptainGyro
Banned
Chie Satonaka
Member
Pressure from WHO?
I didn't read any of the other stories on this, but I'm sure that games journalists weren't calling for his head, and I'm even more sure that "The Internet", GAF, or any other games website comments section who were asking for his head influenced the decision that much either.
Why don't people seem to understand that he made a mistake that warrants one losing their job? This isn't "Hey, we've noticed you've been taking a few minutes extra on your break every day, so we're gonna need you to stop." tier.
If that's all MS gleaned from this debacle, then the lesson has been lost on them.
I mean... I don't expect them to move from the "always online" track. But it'd be good if they took the negative reception to Mr Orth's comments as a strong indicator of the market's opinion on an always online console.
mdtauk
Member
If his job was something like PR, or customer relations - then this would be a big sacking offense. However if twitter communications are not in any way part of his job description, then this mistake would not impact on how well he performs his job, and so should not be a sacking offence.
forced resignation most likely.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
Orth has an impressive resume, but most companies would have taken the same action considering the amount of negative PR his comments generated. Personal account or not, his attitude was completely unprofessional.
Also I don't understand Gies. He has an account here and can clearly defend himself rather than taking potshots at GAF on Twitter. Jason Schreier has no problems doing that and has also gained the respect of most GAF members.
I don't think it's that simple. He could have simply apologized.
Also I don't understand Gies. He has an account here and can clearly defend himself rather than taking potshots at GAF on Twitter. Jason Schreier has no problems doing that and has also gained the respect of most GAF members.
I don't think it's that simple. He could have simply apologized.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Gies coming back here would be a blood bath.
Mistakes are always simple to diagnose in hindsight. And we have a tendency to criticize people base on that hindsight.
You can certainly argue that it should have been simple to have the foresight to not make those comments, and Orth displayed a poor lack of judgement that reflects negatively on his capacity to continue working in his role.
But... how does one stop conflating that argument with instances where mistakes were obvious in hindsight; but less so in foresight? And how do you structure an organization's policies such that you are able to allow people to learn valuable lessons in mistakes without throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater?
What? I'm saying... he wasn't fired. He left because he wanted to leave. That's all.
friskykillface
Banned
He would have got fired eventually though
Those tweets were such bad press that even major media outlets not related to gaming picked it up, it was nuts
Quite honestly, I want to see a study on how many jobs are/were lost to social media sites , it's getting crazy.
I honestly wouldn't have said anything and just repeated "you'll find out soon" for any xbox next tweets.
Those tweets were such bad press that even major media outlets not related to gaming picked it up, it was nuts
Quite honestly, I want to see a study on how many jobs are/were lost to social media sites , it's getting crazy.
I honestly wouldn't have said anything and just repeated "you'll find out soon" for any xbox next tweets.
GAF is influential. Maybe not anywhere near influential enough to bring about his resignation or firing (whichever it may be) but with the amount of info we have I don't see how you can rule it out as a possibility (GAF's influence and whether it was considered when this decision was made).
KoreanBarbecue
Member
Just like he resigned from LucasArts, and I think PopCap, before MS?
People who get canned after PR debacles are often asked to resign rather than outright fired. It's a chance for them to save face and leave with their chin up.
But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying he resigned because he wanted to.
shinobi602
Member
.....how long have you been in the workforce? Employers almost always let employees resign to save face instead of firing them. It is completely obvious this was the case.
I'm only really here for the hypothetical discussion. I don't have a horse in this race; the main point I wanted to make has been made!
If he resigned willingly, all the better for him and the organization. It shows character and understanding of the mistake made - something that he'll likely bring with him to his next role.
Barbacoatl
Banned
That's what he told you? Or MS HR?
Chie Satonaka
Member
I'm aware that we're influential, but I think that the idea that we, or any other group of people who post on the Internet have that much power, especially in a situation where it's clear that the offender did something really, REALLY stupid, is a stretch.
You're saying know for a fact, as in he told you so?
flyinpiranha
Member
Sure sounds like I'm saying that doesn't it?
ProfessorMoran
Member
MS probably wanted to send a message to those with any knowledge of the new hardware to just STFU and let PR do their job.
shinobi602
Member
Wii Friend Code:
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Location:
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Occupation:
Creative Director, Video Game Dev
That you Orthy?
I can think of examples of both, like when some guy posts about his daughter on Facebook (1,000,000 likes for a kitten) and ends up getting a million likes in a week (power of the net!) versus a large net petition that has absolutely no effect.
You are probably right, though. I just think we don't have enough concrete.
You must be new. Or dense. Or both?
Ive seen first hand people get fired for far far FAR less regarding posting things on the internet. I know a woman who simply posted on her Facebook that the board of directors at the company she was working in was merely having a meeting. No details or anything and still got fired within 6 days.
This guy did a tons of damage to the company and to boot some of his comments were so childish and immature that it reflected badly
Imagine a massive crowd at some rally waiting for someone to come out of the MS building to say something, and Adam Orth was the guy who did just that, and it ended up in the worst way imaginable.
This guy did a tons of damage to the company and to boot some of his comments were so childish and immature that it reflected badly
Imagine a massive crowd at some rally waiting for someone to come out of the MS building to say something, and Adam Orth was the guy who did just that, and it ended up in the worst way imaginable.
Doubt it. He still owes 10 bucks to some guy on gaf after losing a bet. He hasn't man up to it.