Nothing. But then again why should they? It's harder for them (compared to some other platforms) and they would have to work with a platform that they don't want to. Compare their approach to Sony's. Hotline Miami is coming this summer to PS3/Vita. Housemarque has made Super Stardust exclusive to Sony platforms. Even Avalanche had PS3 exclusive functions in JC2. This all is because Sony operates in this area. Sometimes you need to go to the dev.
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Avalanche (Just Cause) - Wii U dev kits collecting dust, Nintendo is hard to reach
- Thread starter Flightmare
- Start date
Nothing. But then again why should they? It's harder for them (compared to some other platforms) and they would have to work with a platform that they don't want to. Compare their approach to Sony's. Hotline Miami is coming this summer to PS3/Vita. Housemarque has made Super Stardust exclusive to Sony platforms. Even Avalanche had PS3 exclusive functions in JC2. This all is because Sony operates in this area. Sometimes you need to go to the dev.
I agree with the logic that even if Wii U were selling well these guys still would not be making Wii U games.
I love the Catch 22 with Nintendo consoles. If a Nintendo console is tanking, devs want nothing to do with it. If a Nintendo console is doing well, they don't want to develop for it because they don't want to compete with Nintendo.
I love the Catch 22 with Nintendo consoles. If a Nintendo console is tanking, devs want nothing to do with it. If a Nintendo console is doing well, they don't want to develop for it because they don't want to compete with Nintendo.
Twenty7KVN
Member
I doubt that very much.Nintendo has a image problem,and it's going to take alot more that making a system like the other 2 to change that.
Schnozberry
Member
Overblown. Most games of the period were not larger than what the storage media allowed. It was sales that prevented people from developing on it.
fabricated backlash
Member
And so the bridge burning continues. Well, I wonder if Nintendo has any 3rd party support left by the end of this year.
Getting some strong N64 vibes here. Publishers and Developers openly burning bridges and shunning Nintendo.
It's completely deserved. The WiiU launch and handling has to be the biggest disaster since the PS3 launch.
Getting some strong N64 vibes here. Publishers and Developers openly burning bridges and shunning Nintendo.
It's completely deserved. The WiiU launch and handling has to be the biggest disaster since the PS3 launch.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
same. I might want a U when smash comes out. maybe.
So the most recent home console launch was the biggest disaster since the second most recent home console launch? I can see that
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Difficult or not every 3rd party game could still run on the PS3 as it was originally designed, whereas the Wii not so much.
The thing going forward is even though the PS4 and 720 have a zero install base every 3rd party developer and write a single code now for both systems and all that's left is optimization. Whereas the Wii U may require a whole new build to get it up and running. So if you were a 3rd Party betting on PS4/720 is a lot safer bet than Wii U.
Nintendo games? At least this hypothetical "same" would have a chance of getting third party games too.
Petrae
Member
I don't doubt that Nintendo will make a push (especially Q4), but will be enough to matter and build a significant install base? That's a multi-front battle for Nintendo:
-- Last-gen hardware will likely be benefitting from price cuts and from a still-strong slate of software (Madden, FIFA, GTA, AssCreed, CoD, etc.)
-- New-gen hardware launches will catch the attention of the core gaming consumer with the promise of better graphics, newer games, etc.
I think that last-gen hardware rules (at least here in the US) this holiday season before new-gen transition gradually ramps up as 2014 goes on.
That puts Nintendo in a position where its games-- and its games only-- are the sole advantage the Wii U will have. I'm not sure that's going to be enough, even with games that I'm sure will make Nintendo fans very happy indeed.
To the original point, even with Nintendo's push, I don't think it's enough potential to improve install numbers enough to make Wii U development more attractive in terms of ROI. Most third-party pubs are going to trust that PS4 and Fusion/Infinity/WhateverIt'sCalled will perform & be worth the risk.
I doubt Nintendo approached Akaoni (Spain), Knapnok (Denmark), SnowCastle (Norway), Rock Pocket (Norway), Anima (Spain), Pixel Toys (UK), Delirium (Spain), Dakko Dakko (UK), Neko (France)...
Monty Mole
Member
All of that. But we should also remember that publishers will know far more about the upcoming platforms than we do. They'll know the USPs, the specs, the marketing strategy and budgets. They'll have had the full pitch from MS and Sony respectively to get them on board for next-gen. Hence why third parties even appear at the launch events. It's up to them from that point regarding which platform(s) they want to take the bigger gamble on. But it's an informed decision.
Visualante2
Member
Criterion is part of EA and were working on one of the most popular third party to release each year. Avalanche is a free agent. It shouldn't really matter where Avalanche is based. Nintendo can't afford to give established developers the cold shoulder right now.
AstroNut325
Member
Good. Nintendo needs to fail. Thinking their Wii strategy was going to payoff in the long run is absurd. And simply tacking on a touch screen to a controller isn't going to make the uber casuals get the system in droves!
Schnozberry
Member
Don't rat them out. In fact, have them tweet shitty things about Nintendo to get some street cred.
Making a system like the other two but coming out a year earlier with Nintendo games on it would have gone a long way. They had a chance to take advantage of a market that had gamers and developers begging for a new generation.
Third parties often complain that Nintendo made games completely overshadow them. As such, Nintendo let the third parties have reign at 3DS launch. It bombed. Prior to release of the Wii U, Iwata said that the first quarter would be without Nintendo games and that the time will be used for third parties to shine...they didn't bother. Nintendo have given third parties opportunities and they still blow it and complain.
Not saying Nintendo doesn't screw up the stuff a lot, but it's not right to put the blame solely on Nintendo when they give third parties opportunities and incentives, and it just doesn't happen.
I didn't say it was impossible all I said was it's hardly optimal for devs in there.
Frozenbyte example was just brought up to show how Nintendo could actually get the games on their platforms. I mean that's what Sony does and it seems to work for them. Maybe that's what they meant about "learning from Sony"
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Guys, c'mon, this is serious. Nintendo is acting like Nintendo and not Sony. If they don't change their ways immediately then something something something...
dragonfart28
Banned
The counterargument to this is that Nintendo needs to lead by example on the types of third party games that should follow.
For instance, they need their own FPS, racing game, etc.
FalsettoVibe
Member
Dang......not good.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
It's the only way to rebuild these burnt bridges. Obviously, it's not going to happen with current leadership because Nintendo has done something (whatever it is, we don't necessarily know) to irritate a LOT of people in the industry.
From everything I've seen, it's just as easy to become a developer in Europe as it is in the US. The bigger issue seems to be that when Nintendo tries to reach out, many developers simply chose to ignore them (see the nearly empty talks at GDC for example).
Having a unique architecture AND a small installbase seems like a pretty bad combination.
You can get away with it when you have the numbers of a PS2/3 but not if it's selling as badly as the WiiU. It doesn't help if 3rd party game had a hard time selling on previous systems as well.
You can get away with it when you have the numbers of a PS2/3 but not if it's selling as badly as the WiiU. It doesn't help if 3rd party game had a hard time selling on previous systems as well.
metalslimer
Member
Bullshit. Nintendo had nothing ready for the 3DS or Wii U launch so they have said "3rd parties can support us now" and then when it obviously wasn't going to happen they changed their tune. Also Zombi U doesn't count? None of the ports at Wii U's launch that sold terribly count? What exactly do you want from 3rd parties when a big exclusive like Zombi U at launch with a lack of competition sells awfully?
If they have nothing planned for the Wii U why would they need to contact Nintendo and why should Nintendo in the end return their calls? Are they calling up just to say hello? If they have dev kits then I'm sure they know how to contact them. Perhaps contact is priorities and since they have no games planned or are even approaching them with a game idea they get dropped to the bottom of the list? The indie making a game that has a coding question or the regular to big size developer/publisher that has a networking infrastructure issue should both naturally get more attention. Just because you have a dev kit doesn't mean you call gets transfered up. That only seems fair.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm not sure why people are so reluctant to accept that when your console amounts to what you get when you design a 360 in 2011 and tack on a touchscreen as a USP in a post-iPad world and release it in 2012 at $350 that it won't inspire publisher confidence.
Nintendo did not "altruistically leave a window open for third parties to shine." They are struggling to adapt to HD development years lttp.
They had Nintendo games out at Wii U's launch, New Super Mario Bros U and Nintendo Land.
Third parties are not scared of Gran Turismo, third parties are not scared of Halo, third parties release FPS after FPS chasing that COD money. Third parties go where the audience is.
Utter nonsense.
Nintendo did not "altruistically leave a window open for third parties to shine." They are struggling to adapt to HD development years lttp.
They had Nintendo games out at Wii U's launch, New Super Mario Bros U and Nintendo Land.
Third parties are not scared of Gran Turismo, third parties are not scared of Halo, third parties release FPS after FPS chasing that COD money. Third parties go where the audience is.
Why on earth did Nintendo put so much into a gamepad that can be replaced with another gamepad they released? Who thought this was a good idea? The cost is an unremarkable console with an over spec'd and unnecessary controller. Why would i look away from my 55 inch LED screen and focus on a small screen? I dont game so much where i need to be playing away from my TV. A complete misfire of a console.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Obviously this is more evidence of a massive conspiracy against Nintendo. It's certainly not the predictable end result of poor-selling hardware that is too weak to match up with next generation development pipelines.
Mithos
Member
Yes I agree, but when/if that happens and Nintendos games in those genres end up selling 3-5 million each time they release a game, what will the 3rd parties say you think?
We cant compete with Nintendo on their platform, that's what.
Twenty7KVN
Member
So how did frozenbyte get a hold of Nintendo?Something doesn't add up,especially with Nintendo going out of the way to get indies to make games on the wii-u.
prag16
Banned
We've heard about lacking documentation early on, around launch time. But this is the first we've heard of Nintendo being "hard to contact". As if Avalanche is speaking to a receptionist at Nintendo and they're getting stonewalled? I'm skeptical. Maybe a poor translation? The quotes are very sloppy and sound like bad google translate jobs.
fabricated backlash
Member
A big exclusive? Lol, even the ZombiU devs said that they had a tiny budget for the game.
I don't think it's as much bad blood between Nintendo and other companies as its simply the circumstance that Nintendo's plattforms don't fit into the business plans of most companies.
They may have had nothing ready, sure. However, ever consider that they may have planned it that way?
And of course late ports for games sold badly...they're late ports. Everyone who wanted that game has it already.
As for ZombiU, you cannot use one single third party game as evidence of all third parties, especially when it's a specifically focused style of game that doesn't appeal to everyone, and has an 18+ rating.
That's what you get for giving them a middle finger for a decade or so. Things won't happen in an overnight. And yes reaching out (even beyond holding GDC talks which should pretty much be given) helps and this is what Sony is getting right. It wouldn't be half-bad idea to take what they did with Platinum and expand it to western developers.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Think people can begin to see why this is the last Nintendo home console. At least this one had some support out the gate, but honestly who would bet once again on another one?
And thus if its solely Nintendo supporting the thing, why would they even need two platforms after they release an HD handheld since they don't believe in power trumping all? They'll just be content with one platform they can actually support and flourish with third parties than keep creating more FailBoxes for an ever shrinking Nintendo hardcore.
And thus if its solely Nintendo supporting the thing, why would they even need two platforms after they release an HD handheld since they don't believe in power trumping all? They'll just be content with one platform they can actually support and flourish with third parties than keep creating more FailBoxes for an ever shrinking Nintendo hardcore.
dragonfart28
Banned
To be fair, it's a rare occurrence for launch games to sell like gangbusters.
And the game wasn't really marketed well either.
Hell, even first party games and the console itself weren't advertised enough.
Frozenbyte is not a good example, Nintendo contacted them directly. But there have been several small European devs who contacted Nintendo and got their license and devkits pretty quickly.
DragonSworne
Banned
Don't worry, Nintendo is working really really hard to get third party support. They are coming up with the next system gimmick that third parties will definitely love! Have they talked to any of them about it? Why would they talk to them? That's crazy.
This is a clear sign that the problem with Nintendo not getting third party support is Nintendo themselves.
This is a clear sign that the problem with Nintendo not getting third party support is Nintendo themselves.
metalslimer
Member
Ah...I see so first we go from 3rd parties don't try to now 3rd party game X does count because ______. Also using 18+ as a reason a 3rd party game didn't sell? Might as well pack it up now then.
Well I certainly hope not or everyone in that management needs to be fired, although looking at them now that shold probably happen anyway.
Well I certainly hope not or everyone in that management needs to be fired, although looking at them now that shold probably happen anyway.
phosphor112
Banned
I don't think any of us really thought it would get that bad in the first place.
It's not hard to understand. No games. I don't know if it's the concept of the Wii U itself that's holding good games back, or it's terrible name, or it's terrible marketing... but they gotta get more titles out if they want to push units. I think it's nice there is obviously an emphasis on real gaming experiences compared to more waggle but maybe that's hard to swallow in terms of mass appeal. I almost feel like the Wii sold so well because of word of mouth + the gross over excitement that motion controls caused at the time.
Funnily enough, third parties were all on board the Wii U concept and all that beforehand, but they then dropped out for one reason or another. So it's not the "gimmick", something else happened. Probably the power argument again
Gamecube and the N64 despite only selling 20 to 30 million each were profitable.
Time to buy a vacuum cleaner.