Magicpaint
Member
Nintendo gonna nintendo.
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Avalanche (Just Cause) - Wii U dev kits collecting dust, Nintendo is hard to reach
- Thread starter Flightmare
- Start date
Other studios - the few who actually have stuff in the works - seem to have no problem contacting Nintendo. Heck, even Indies have spoken about the ongoing contact/support they've been getting.
Of course, that's not to say their claims have no merit - there's a lot more Nintendo could and should be doing. Yes, things do tend to gather dust when you don't use them. Still, once we cut through the convenient excuses/complaints - however valid they may be - not supporting Wii U is the real story, and it's their (business) decision at the end of the day.
Why is it so hard for 3rd-party to just state it plainly? "Wii U is a financial risk we aren't willing to take." The multitude of excuses is a weariness. Are they afraid they'll ruin their relationship with Nintendo? The one they never had? Are they hoping not to burn bridges, in the event that Wii U sales pick back up? Is it better PR toward a few disappointed fans? IDK, just thinking aloud.
Of course, that's not to say their claims have no merit - there's a lot more Nintendo could and should be doing. Yes, things do tend to gather dust when you don't use them. Still, once we cut through the convenient excuses/complaints - however valid they may be - not supporting Wii U is the real story, and it's their (business) decision at the end of the day.
Why is it so hard for 3rd-party to just state it plainly? "Wii U is a financial risk we aren't willing to take." The multitude of excuses is a weariness. Are they afraid they'll ruin their relationship with Nintendo? The one they never had? Are they hoping not to burn bridges, in the event that Wii U sales pick back up? Is it better PR toward a few disappointed fans? IDK, just thinking aloud.
Translation by me, Im Norwegian.
"I think Nintendo has a lot to gain by taking the same path as Sony by reaching out a hand to developers and in that way get more support"
"If that had happened, as a developer you would feel more enthusiasm and maybe want to make something cool. In Nintendos case it would be about the Wii U gamepad. "
diffusionx
Gold Member
Avalanche probably did the same thing DICE did. They got the dev kits, looked at it, tried to move their engine over, saw that the hardware wasn't good enough to handle what they wanted to do, and moved on.
metalslimer
Member
We have no idea how profitable the gamecube was due to the GBA being a monster at the same time and them not breaking down the financials. It certainly wasnt a burden though
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
I still can’t get over how Nintendo let the third party situation get this bad.
fabricated backlash
Member
So the most recent home console launch was the biggest disaster since the second most recent home console launch? I can see that
The PS3 was a major disaster for Sony. Even ignoring the massive cash loss, it cost them the undisputed market leadership, coming off the most successfull console in history, the biggest installbase in the world, they barely managed to pull even with MS, while being utterly left in the dust by Nintendo, a company that completely blew their prior two generations in terms of market share.
It's the biggest loss of influence in the history of the console business, and Nintendo fell into the same trap:
Complacency and arrogance
The WiiU is a bigger disaster as even the Gamecube. It's probably even worse than the N64. They completely failed to pull any kind of momentum they had in 2010 towards their next console. The WiiU is 3 years too late, while being 3 years too old from a specs perspective, and only now does Nintendo think to work with developers after most of them told them to fuck off. Nintendo doesn't have any pull in the market anymore. They'll either adapt or they'll be left to rot in a niche market all their own with no hope of growth.
Still, Nintendo now is a lot more capable of turning shit around than Nintendo back in the N64 era. Yamauchi was a special kind of asshole that would rather drive his company against a wall than to compromise.
People referencing N64 and GC as a reason why power has nothing to do with 3rd party support are over simplifying. The N64 lost a ton of support because of the financial commitment a dev had to make publishing games on a cartridge format, if the game didnt sell they were out a lot more money than on CD (not to mention the storage disadvantage). GameCube suffered facing the PS2's DVD playback which was a huge deal at the time,its controller layout turned off a lot of consumers, it launched right after 9/11 in the states which killed the hype, and of course the purple lunch box.
If Wii U was anywhere near the ballpark of PS4/720 power wise, it absolutely would fare better in Dev support, at least for its first year or so.
If Wii U was anywhere near the ballpark of PS4/720 power wise, it absolutely would fare better in Dev support, at least for its first year or so.
It's becoming obvious...
Nintendo is a bunch of guys in Japan that just want to do their own thing. Make the games and systems they think are cool. Anyone not on board with that, whatevs. They can't be bothered with the hassle of chasing 3rd parties all the way over in the West.
It wouldn't actually surprise me to hear of a lot of weed-smoking going on at NCL.
Nintendo is a bunch of guys in Japan that just want to do their own thing. Make the games and systems they think are cool. Anyone not on board with that, whatevs. They can't be bothered with the hassle of chasing 3rd parties all the way over in the West.
It wouldn't actually surprise me to hear of a lot of weed-smoking going on at NCL.
Twenty7KVN
Member
Nah i still doubt that,Nintendo's problem isn't about power or ease of development.They have a reputation of a company that is stubborn and hard to work with,and don't care about anyone else but them.They have to change that and do it now,and they are with way they are reaching out to indies and making it easier for them to get games on the system,they just have to get in good standings with third parties and videogame fans.
shinra-bansho
Member
Late feature-bare ports like Madden can't sell well. Look at Madden NFL 06, it only sold 178K on the 360's 326K US userbase.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
They specifically talked about the WiiU install base being too small, so I dunno where you get that they aren't speaking plainly.
phosphor112
Banned
I don't buy vacuums because they're always online.
They pretty much said the install base isn't there. How much more blatant do you want?
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
I have doubts that even if Nintendo was to attain a large userbase within the first year that third party developers would be on board.
The Wii U is obviously not in the same league in terms of the spec war as the PS4 and the new Xbox. Although it might be easier to downport to the Wii U than it was to the Wii, I still don't see third parties making effort to do so. Since the Wii U install base is fairly low, we're not going to see EA make a custom engine for the Wii U since they've stated that Frostbite 3 doesn't perform favourably and that even Frostbite 2 was struggling. Unreal Engine 4 is sort of a similar deal, with Epic saying they're not going to be doing much with that engine on the Wii U but other developers are free to do so.
I think ultimately Nintendo is in a lose-lose situation by making hardware weaker than the competition, as I think that's the only way they'd get support from third parties with big games. However, that being said, I find it interesting that some development studios have technical limitations (like EA with Battlefield 4), where as some developers have already stated Wii U downports are in the works (like Ubisoft with Watch_Dogs).
The Wii U is obviously not in the same league in terms of the spec war as the PS4 and the new Xbox. Although it might be easier to downport to the Wii U than it was to the Wii, I still don't see third parties making effort to do so. Since the Wii U install base is fairly low, we're not going to see EA make a custom engine for the Wii U since they've stated that Frostbite 3 doesn't perform favourably and that even Frostbite 2 was struggling. Unreal Engine 4 is sort of a similar deal, with Epic saying they're not going to be doing much with that engine on the Wii U but other developers are free to do so.
I think ultimately Nintendo is in a lose-lose situation by making hardware weaker than the competition, as I think that's the only way they'd get support from third parties with big games. However, that being said, I find it interesting that some development studios have technical limitations (like EA with Battlefield 4), where as some developers have already stated Wii U downports are in the works (like Ubisoft with Watch_Dogs).
Captain Tuttle
Member
If you're implying that Nintendo is innocent in all of this then you're wrong. These guys are saying that they can't even get ahold of them.
Nintendo doesn't court third parties because third parties compete with Nintendo software. This approach is adequate with an install base like the Wii and the hype generated around it in the early days but with lethargic sales of the WiiU this approach won't cut it.
Having to buy empty packs of DLC from time to time sucks too.
Just like Nintendo needed to invest to get their own developers up to par on HD development they also need to spend resources to build a team that can support outside developers. You need to spend resources to create an environment where people know who they can go to for help and information.
If an established dev doesn't even know who to contact at Nintendo to get support you know they've screwed up badly. They can't just create a console and just push it out there and expect people to start creating games.
If an established dev doesn't even know who to contact at Nintendo to get support you know they've screwed up badly. They can't just create a console and just push it out there and expect people to start creating games.
I agree that Nintendo screwed up a bit, but you can't go on saying it's all their fault.
I also don't get the specs complaint. From what I can see, it's not weak and so many experts struggle to determine the power/specs of the GPU, so why do people constantly call it weak?
DragonSworne
Banned
Nintendo should take back those Dev kits and send them to some indie interested in developing for Wii U.
No point in letting it collect dust...
No point in letting it collect dust...
Seems unfair to judge the Wii U right now when the only major title to appear on it is Mario. Just wait until Mario and Mario come out, then we'll see sales go up.
Seriously though, I am starting to agree with the sentiment this is likely the end of the road for Nintendo home consoles. Wii U is the first Nintendo console I haven't bought and to be frank probably wouldn't want at all if not for the fact Monolith is making games on it.
Seriously though, I am starting to agree with the sentiment this is likely the end of the road for Nintendo home consoles. Wii U is the first Nintendo console I haven't bought and to be frank probably wouldn't want at all if not for the fact Monolith is making games on it.
Flightmare
Member
It's Nintendos job to create enthusiasm for the platform
DICE were pretty clear on this
StreetsAhead
Member
1. How long have they had Dev Kits?
2. How long have they been trying to get in contact with Nintendo?
3. Did they have plans for Wii U that fell through because they couldn't get through to them?
4. If low-install base is an issue, are they not going to be developing for PS4 and Xbox 720 in their first year too?
Wait, re-reading, they did want to but couldn't get in contact with them, but say they're better than they used to be but not as good as Sony yet? Fuck, I hate Google Translate.
2. How long have they been trying to get in contact with Nintendo?
3. Did they have plans for Wii U that fell through because they couldn't get through to them?
4. If low-install base is an issue, are they not going to be developing for PS4 and Xbox 720 in their first year too?
Wait, re-reading, they did want to but couldn't get in contact with them, but say they're better than they used to be but not as good as Sony yet? Fuck, I hate Google Translate.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
DragonSworne
Banned
Who fault is it then?
Mine? Yours? Sony/MS? Third parties? Obama? Space Aliens?
It's all Nintendo's fault, specifically Iwata, Miyamoto, Reggie, and Moffitt.
As long as these guys are in charge, nothing will change.
They're not even fucking trying, it's like they gave up about Publishers, that's the message I get everytime I hear about that indie push they're doing to cover their schedule holes (which isn't guaranteed to be succesful.
DeviantBoi
Member
Funny thing is that if Nintendo had skipped the gimmicks and came up with something with slightly lower specs than the PS4 or 720, they would've had a year's head start on this generation.
Odds are that they would have won this generation.
Odds are that they would have won this generation.
SniperHunter
Banned
well said.
DragonKnight
Member
Nintendo dont care man
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Kind of a good point really. The past two days on GAF we've heard nothing but about SotE being developed for Wii U. You have Shovel Knight and all those indie games too. I'm sure there's some gaffers who would gladly take those dev kits and put them to good use.
DragonSworne
Banned
Nintendo wouldn't have any games either way. They can't develop HD titles in a timely manner for some reason.
Twenty7KVN
Member
Oh cool didn't know they reached out to them that's awesome.But this proves my point that Nintendo is open to working with devs.I don't know what kind of experience avalanche had with trying to contact Nintendo,but it just seems they didn't even try,i don't know it just seems really odd to me.
StreetsAhead
Member
Neither can Platinum, it would seem. They're months late with W101.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
People keep bringing this point up, but they're more likely to bet on the potential of the future platforms (which presumably most of their audience are more likely to move to), than something that is already a noted failure currently.
DragonSworne
Banned
For a gaming platform released in 2012, there is no question at all that it is weak. People have yet to determine exactly how weak it is.
It's Nintendo and third party's faults, and certainly not the faults of those four people alone.
And they forgot to tell Nintendo in the whole process?or did Nintendo just ignored it??
maniac-kun
Member
Maybe the situation gets better when it has a bigger install base.
Rollercoaster isn't an accurate analogy, seems like we only get bad news non-stop. 3d mario/zelda games were a given before the console even came out.
Schnozberry
Member
Doubtful. CVG pointed out last week in an article that Iwata is reluctant to make a push with the Wii U until the system software is fixed. I'm guessing that's why game releases have been pushed off until they can get the summer software update out the door.
The Wii initially saw the same issue with 3rd parties and would've been in the same predicament if it hadn't sold so much.
Hell, it was in the same predicament- just a completely different market. And now Nintendo has no idea how to market their system to the same people-- because those people don't feel like they need to upgrade their Wii systems. Shit- the Wii I think outsold the Wii U...
But just like the 3DS, it needs games and it needs them now. Their plan to make 3rd parties "regret" not putting games on the system makes me feel like big disaster is imminent.
...of course I have a bad feeling about a console crash incoming anyways, so it's no surprise. They need to hire someone who can tell them what the market wants, how to shift it and work on their next console to launch in 6 years time.
Hell, it was in the same predicament- just a completely different market. And now Nintendo has no idea how to market their system to the same people-- because those people don't feel like they need to upgrade their Wii systems. Shit- the Wii I think outsold the Wii U...
But just like the 3DS, it needs games and it needs them now. Their plan to make 3rd parties "regret" not putting games on the system makes me feel like big disaster is imminent.
...of course I have a bad feeling about a console crash incoming anyways, so it's no surprise. They need to hire someone who can tell them what the market wants, how to shift it and work on their next console to launch in 6 years time.
StreetsAhead
Member
Yes, but how could they have known that 9-12 months ago?
You're funny. I like you.
Windom Earle
Member
I have heard from many people that Nintendo is very difficult to work with, they never fully got off the high horse from the NES/SNES era. Back in the day they could ask anything from publishers/devs because they had the market share.
Their certification process is apparently also longwinded, they are extremely picky and have some ridiculous requirements.
Their certification process is apparently also longwinded, they are extremely picky and have some ridiculous requirements.
shinra-bansho
Member
Third parties are not at fault for not sinking money into an ailing platform and/or for prudently avoiding to do so prospectively based on projections of tepid response.
It's Nintendo's platform, not EA's, not Take-Two's, not Bethesda's.
StreetsAhead
Member
Inaba has been play testing the ROM only this last week, with Kamiya complaining about deadlines the whole time. Sounds like they're winding down only now to me.