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[DragonKnight]

Im not gonna lie. It is easy for me to get hyped about the wii once I start thinking about all their franchises in HD. But then i remember all the issues that will probably still plague the system conjoined with nintendo's refusal to do anything right by third parties and live in a bubble. Ill also admit however that there is not one next gen only game that i am currently anticipating. Im pretty much waiting until e3 to make up my mind. I have never been about graphics and gtav and the evil within are both gonna be available for my ps3. If no next gen software really pulls me in i can see myself going with a wiiu just for the novelty of nintendo's franchises in HD.

Edit: i was shocked that after the inital next gen hype of the ps4 reveal wore away i found myself saying "wow. There isnt one game here that i want to play."

 

[pvpness]

When was the last third party game put on a Nintendo system that was treated the same way as if it was a PS3 or 360 game that did poorly? I can't recall. When games get treated as if they are worth buying by the publisher/developer and that message and feeling is gotten across to the potential buyers the game will do well. When it's treated as an afterthought, not even acknowledged, missing features and there is no attempt to sell the game to customers why should it be expected to sell well?

Nintendo hardware owners are customers first and foremost. You have to sell your product to them. If you don't, don't expect it to sell period. This is the problem I see and the problem with third parties. They feel they don't have to "sell" their games on Nintendo systems and it's customers. Yet have no problem on the PS3 and 360. I say this is the case because all this part generation you see advertisements for PS3 and 360 games. The few Wii games that were done had nothing or the cheapest possible ads at midnight where no one would see them. The lack of acknowledgement of Call of Duty games sometimes until weeks before launch or even not at all.

How do you run a business like that and expect your games to sell? This isn't a charity. No expectations should be made. Want to sell your product to customers (that's what everyone is. Not gamers but customers.) then you need to put in the actual work to do so like every other business in the world big or small. This industry....

/shrug nothing to get hung about. Nintendo will never see the 3rd party support the other players do, regardless of circumstance. Pretty sure they're aware of this. I'm still surprised they even reach out for token support for their fans that are interested.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Was there anything else of note to buy for the 360 when it launched?

The 360 apparently had a US tie ratio of 4 games per system, so probably. COD, as already mentioned, sold to around three quarters of the launch buyers.

 

[kuroshiki]

They sure did with the PS3.

WiiU makes PS3 launch as the best launch ever.

Seriously, no competition, 1 year head start, and yet not even scratching the market. This is some really fucked up launch.

 

[BD1]

?

2K is a subsidiary of Take-Two and as far as I'm aware the only game they've published for the Wii U is NBA 2K13. I don't think NBA 2K14 has been announced for Wii U, although someone is free to correct.

Not sure about NBA2K14. I threw 2K in there because I expect the wrestling game to release on Wii U, but I could be wrong. I doubt we'll see anything from Rockstar.

You're right, a better metric is the absence of upcoming games from pretty much every publisher besides Warner, Ubisoft and Activision.

I think Nintendo is happy with Warner, Ubi, Activision and everything else is gravy. They will need to get sports games on the console though, and I don't know if EA is ever coming back.

 

[DragonSworne]

WiiU makes PS3 launch as the best launch ever.

Seriously, no competition, 1 year head start, and yet not even scratching the market. This is some really fucked up launch.

One could argue Nintendo launched 7 years too late. Especially considering how they marketed the system and the kind of support they received.

 

[royalan]

Just one more bit of proof that Iwata is the most incompetent CEO in the industry.

It is not the responsibility of 3rd parties to cultivate and prove the existence of an audience. It's the responsibility of the hardware developer to do that. It is Nintendo's responsibility to create enthusiasm for their platform. Nintendo has not given a single shit about making their home consoles a friendly and lucrative environment for 3rd parties to thrive on. They didn't care because, until recently, they didn't have to, and it's more apparent than ever. For some strange reason, Nintendo feels that it can do whatever it wants and make whatever empty promises they want and still get the support, regardless.

Man, it's shit like this that makes you realize that Nintendo doesn't just need a little change; they need a complete fucking overhaul.

EDIT: It's not unfounded hate for Nintendo that's at play here. It's ALWAYS been obvious to the less delusional among us that Nintendo doesn't get the support the other guys do because they don't reach out to the development community and cultivate relationships like the other guys do. But to hear developers come out and blatantly say that? Damn...devs are starting to not give a fuck about even faking it for Nintendo anymore.

 

[darkstar0155]

When was the last third party game put on a Nintendo system that was treated the same way as if it was a PS3 or 360 game that did poorly? I can't recall. When games get treated as if they are worth buying by the publisher/developer and that message and feeling is gotten across to the potential buyers the game will do well. When it's treated as an afterthought, not even acknowledged, missing features and there is no attempt to sell the game to customers why should it be expected to sell well?

Nintendo hardware owners are customers first and foremost. You have to sell your product to them. If you don't, don't expect it to sell period. This is the problem I see and the problem with third parties. They feel they don't have to "sell" their games on Nintendo systems and it's customers. Yet have no problem on the PS3 and 360. I say this is the case because all this part generation you see advertisements for PS3 and 360 games. The few Wii games that were done had nothing or the cheapest possible ads at midnight where no one would see them. The lack of acknowledgement of Call of Duty games sometimes until weeks before launch or even not at all.

How do you run a business like that and expect your games to sell? This isn't a charity. No expectations should be made. Want to sell your product to customers (that's what everyone is. Not gamers but customers.) then you need to put in the actual work to do so like every other business in the world big or small. This industry....

Exactly, and yet dont bring up all the ps3/360 games that underperformed just in the last year or two (not saying N didnt mess up their launch, but the "games dont sell" argument isnt really justified)

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

WiiU makes PS3 launch as the best launch ever.

Seriously, no competition, 1 year head start, and yet not even scratching the market. This is some really fucked up launch.

One could argue Nintendo launched 7 years too late.

Yep.

Exactly, and yet dont bring up all the ps3/360 games that underperformed just in the last year or two (not saying N didnt mess up their launch, but the "games dont sell" argument isnt really justified)

It's not about the software, it's about the hardware and the Wii U is selling worse than the PS3/360 ever did.

 

[EDarkness]

COD2, Kameo, Perfect Dark

Heh, I remember CoD2 being well received. I don't remember the situation with Kameo, but all things considered, Madden didn't look too bad.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I think Nintendo is happy with Warner, Ubi, Activision and everything else is gravy. They will need to get sports games on the console though, and I don't know if EA is ever coming back.

I would imagine the projects Ubi, Activision and Warner have publicly slated have been in development for a bit.

Their performance will probably determine whether those publishers end up joining "everyone else" or the reverse.

 

[Kouriozan]

3rd party NEED a console to put games on.
Even if it fail at first, they will just make more games for it.
And that console is not from Nintendo since N64.

 

[Dark Octave]

Can someone at least buy them a feather duster?

Nintendo certainly can't be bothered to get it for them.

 

[darkstar0155]

Yep.



It's not about the software, it's about the hardware and the Wii U is selling worse than the PS3/360 ever did.

And thus the circular debate and self-fulfilling status. No games lead to no hardware sales wich goes back to no games.

 

[kuroshiki]

3rd party NEED a console to put games on.
Even if it fail at first, they will just make more games for it.
And that console is not from Nintendo since N64.

It's only true if there is only one console in the market.

When there are 3 or more competition, it's the opposite. Console NEEDS 3rd parties, not the other way around.

But yeah, I haven't owned nintendo console since SNES (arguably the 2nd best RPG machine ever right behind PS2) and third party support have been dreadful for nintendo ever since.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

And thus the circular debate and self-fulfilling status. No games lead to no hardware sales wich goes back to no games.

-The Wii U is significantly weaker than the PS4/NextBox will be
-Devs don't seem to think it's worth investing in porting a game to the Wii U from the other consoles
-Unlike with the 360/PS3, there is basically no install base for the Wii U
-Nintendo hasn't had a good relationship with third parties since the SNES
-Devs don't seem to think that Nintendo owners will buy their games on the Wii U since many of them also have a PS3/360/PC/ and will have a PS4/NextBox.

If you want to act as if the Wii U just has a single problem leading to the current third party situation you're free to believe so. You would be ignoring the big picture why they're ignoring it. It doesn't have anything to do with 'we don't like Nintendo' or 'we don't like Nintendo fans'. It has everything to do with $$$$$

 

[kitsuneyo]

It's been fascinating to watch the image of Nintendo on NeoGAF over the past few months slowly turn into this.

I'm still a huge fan, I love my Wii U and my (wife's) 3DS, it's just really disheartening to hear how badly Wii U's been handled. The conclusion that Nintendo has seriously dropped the ball is... pretty much the only one left.

 

[prwxv3]

WiiU makes PS3 launch as the best launch ever.

Seriously, no competition, 1 year head start, and yet not even scratching the market. This is some really fucked up launch.

They only thing that makes the PS3 worse is that it cost Sony $200 bucks in losses a pop.

 

[The Hermit]

Clean you damn house, devs!

Dev kits collecting dust is on another level of "my Wii is collecting dust" its not even funny.

I hope Nintendo learn how to groom western developers, fast!

 

[TimeEffect]

Gamecube is proof nintendo software alone is not enough to make a successful console.

Are Gamecube sales considered that bad? 20 million?


Wii U and VITA are on the same boat. But Nintendo still has heavy hitters to come out. Surely a price cut, Mario, Zelda, and SSB can soar its sales far enough for third party to consider? Or will they be knee deep into PS4 and 720 development by then to care?

I wonder how VITA will recover, as I haven't really heard devs knock on VITA the same way. Are devs giving up on VITA the same way? I'm guessing the difference comes with what kind of platform we're talking about here, but it pretty much shows that third party wont risk their efforts if the companies can't offer a target base.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Just one more bit of proof that Iwata is the most incompetent CEO in the industry.

And what Nintendo do? Just promote him as NOA's CEO.

Nintendo's management is completely fucked up, there's little hope for this company's future.

 

[darkstar0155]

-The Wii U is significantly weaker than the PS4/NextBox will be
-Devs don't seem to think it's worth investing in porting a game to the Wii U from the other consoles
-Unlike with the 360/PS3, there is basically no install base for the Wii U
-Nintendo hasn't had a good relationship with third parties since the SNES
-Devs don't seem to think that Nintendo owners will buy their games on the Wii U since many of them also have a PS3/360/PC/ and will have a PS4/NextBox.

If you want to act as if the Wii U just has a single problem leading to the current third party situation you're free to believe so. You would be ignoring the big picture why they're ignoring it. It doesn't have anything to do with 'we don't like Nintendo' or 'we don't like Nintendo fans'. It has everything to do with $$$$$

never said that there is a single problem, there def isnt. i was just commenting on the post about what the last big 3rd party game to bomb on the wii was, while pointing out that numerous games bomb on the HD twins, yet that gets largely left out of the discussion.

 

[8bits]

Yep.



It's not about the software, it's about the hardware and the Wii U is selling worse than the PS3/360 ever did.

Really? Total Wii U sales at the end of March was 3.45 million. Total 360 sales at the end of March 2006 was 3.2 million.

 

[Box]

I'm still a huge fan, I love my Wii U and my (wife's) 3DS, it's just really disheartening to hear how badly Wii U's been handled. The conclusion that Nintendo has seriously dropped the ball is... pretty much the only one left.

A moment ago you weren't afraid to suggest that NCL is a bunch of old Japanese guys sitting around smoking pot.

 

[Flightmare]

Really? Total Wii U sales at the end of March was 3.45 million. Total 360 sales at the end of March 2006 was 3.2 million.

He's talking about weekly sales, wii u had a good launch, and that's about it

 

[royalan]

-The Wii U is significantly weaker than the PS4/NextBox will be
-Devs don't seem to think it's worth investing in porting a game to the Wii U from the other consoles
-Unlike with the 360/PS3, there is basically no install base for the Wii U
-Nintendo hasn't had a good relationship with third parties since the SNES
-Devs don't seem to think that Nintendo owners will buy their games on the Wii U since many of them also have a PS3/360/PC/ and will have a PS4/NextBox.

If you want to act as if the Wii U just has a single problem leading to the current third party situation you're free to believe so. You would be ignoring the big picture why they're ignoring it. It doesn't have anything to do with 'we don't like Nintendo' or 'we don't like Nintendo fans'. It has everything to do with $$$$$

I agree with you, but I don't think the bolded is the big issue anymore. Of course, publishers need to see financial opportunity in order to support hardware with games, but just look at the early years of PS360. Even at their lowest (which wasn't NEARLY as low as Wii U, but still), they were still racking up significant 3rd party support. And just look at the Vita. As shit as it's selling it still gets CRAZY AMBITIOUS games. 3rd parties have become just as invested in supporting MS and Sony as those companies have been dedicated to GETTING their support.

It's becoming clear to me now that Nintendo's big problem is that they just do absolutely nothing to really engage and connect to the development community. They function outside of it. They ignore it. That's terrible. How could they ever hope to get true support that way?

Someone said it earlier: Nintendo may have changed their design philosophies, but when it comes to the very culture of the company, I don't think Nintendo ever got off their SNES high horse.

 

[8bits]

He's talking about weekly sales, wii u had a good launch, and that's about it

But why would that matter?

 

[Sendou]

But why would that matter?

It does matter going forward. There's no momentum. Now they need to build consumer's hope for the platform ground-up with some serious announcements.

 

[GitarooMan]

But why would that matter?

Because trending matters, not just volume.

 

[Übermatik]

Part of me hopes the Wii U fucking bombs, so they go into panic mode and develop a new fucking awesome system.

 

[Zoramon089]

I agree with you, but I don't think the bolded is the big issue anymore. Of course, publishers need to see financial opportunity in order to support hardware with games, but just look at the early years of PS360. Even at their lowest (which wasn't NEARLY as low as Wii U, but still), they were still racking up significant 3rd party support. And just look at the Vita. As shit as it's selling it still gets CRAZY AMBITIOUS games. 3rd parties have become just as invested in supporting MS and Sony as those companies have been dedicated to GETTING their support.

It's becoming clear to me now that Nintendo's big problem is that they just do absolutely nothing to really engage and connect to the development community. They function outside of it. They ignore it. That's terrible. How could they ever hope to get true support that way?

Someone said it earlier: Nintendo may have changed their design philosophies, but when it comes to the very culture of the company, I don't think Nintendo ever got off their SNES high horse.

Umm, not really. The most "crazy ambitious" game it received was an exclusive AC game. The rest has it been piggybacking off the PS3 and how easy it is to port between them

 

[Sendou]

Part of me hopes the Wii U fucking bombs, so they go into panic mode and develop a new fucking awesome system.

Yes because we all know that pure panic materializes the best hardware. This is what they came up with after very succesful Wii. I don't dare to guess what they would put out in "panic mode". R&D takes time and resources.

 

[thefro]

Are Gamecube sales considered that bad? 20 million?

The funny part is XBox barely beat it even with all the money Microsoft dumped into moneyhatting games and starting studios.

 

[Risette]

Think people can begin to see why this is the last Nintendo home console. At least this one had some support out the gate, but honestly who would bet once again on another one?

And thus if its solely Nintendo supporting the thing, why would they even need two platforms after they release an HD handheld since they don't believe in power trumping all? They'll just be content with one platform they can actually support and flourish with third parties than keep creating more FailBoxes for an ever shrinking Nintendo hardcore.

I'd be okay with this. I don't want a third party Nintendo, I want a focused Nintendo. And since consoles aren't working out for them, that leaves handhelds.

Are Gamecube sales considered that bad? 20 million?

It's 10 million less than the N64. They lost 1/3 of their previous market.

That's really bad, and why the Xbox comparisons are invalid.

 

[Disorientator]

Nintendo will be dropping bombs soon.

All this negativity is just an AA umbrella to minimize the "damage".

\m/

 

[GulAtiCa]

Sounds like a communication problem over at NOE. Does over areas in Europe have this communication problem with NOE?

 

[8bits]

It does matter going forward. There's no momentum. Now they need to build consumer's hope for the platform ground-up with some serious announcements.

Ahh ok I see. That makes sense. I expect that momentum to materialize close to and after E3. I know people say Nintendo first titles won't do much, Mario is repetitive, people want different games etc. etc. but fully expect to see Nintendo reverse the sales numbers.

 

[OryoN]

They specifically talked about the WiiU install base being too small, so I dunno where you get that they aren't speaking plainly.

They pretty much said the install base isn't there. How much more blatant do you want?

Ah, thanks for bringing that to my attention! I made those statements BEFORE the update/translation. I was growing weary of how 3rd-party in general have chosen to handle the 'no Wii U support' situation. So then, Avalanche should be one of the few exceptions. That's commendable for them to be straight-forward about it, so imagine them excluded from that particular generalization, from here on out.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I hope Nintendo has another Wii level hit lined up after this because Gamecube level sales will be the norm for them if they don't change up their strategy.

 

[Coolwhip]

Crazy Theory Alert!!

What if there was no catch 22? What if the reason why developers don't want to make games on Nintendo consoles is because of Nintendo themselves?

Could it possible be bad management at Nintendo that results in poor Third party support? That no matter how many systems they sell, they'll have bad third party support because of this?

Could it really be Iwata's fault?

What do you say banana?

Do you copy paste your own replies at this point?

 

[SmokyDave]

Already on it:


So this is Trolling: The Thread, eh?

Mods and members alike. This is fun.

Spoiler

And I wouldn't be surprised to get a ban for pointing this out since thread whining is worse than actual trolling/saying awful things

.

Really though, if I as a regular gamer can figure out how to contact Nintendo via multiple channels and they as developers can't, I don't know what that says about them.

Gotta say, 'saying awful things' got a proper belly laugh out of me. Cheers, chap.

 

[Flightmare]

Ah, thanks for bringing that to my attention! I made those statements BEFORE the update/translation. I was growing weary of how 3rd-party in general have chosen to handle the 'no Wii U support' situation. So then, Avalanche should be one of the few exceptions. That's commendable for them to be straight-forward about it, so imagine them excluded from that particular generalization, from here on out.

It was the third bulletpoint when I created the thread

 

[Kimawolf]

So what is stopping them from making a game for the thing? Because they are working on PS4/ Nextbox games which have a big ole 0 install base. Gotta start somewhere I suppose.

 

[Flightmare]

So what is stopping them from making a game for the thing? Because they are working on PS4/ Nextbox games which have a big ole 0 install base. Gotta start somewhere I suppose.

Bad relationship with nintendo

 

[Kimawolf]

Bad relationship with nintendo

Well that is not surprising in the least I suppose, NOE needs to get their act together. How exactly do you go about repairing such relationship? Phone calls? candy? completely fund a game?

 

[kuroshiki]

So what is stopping them from making a game for the thing? Because they are working on PS4/ Nextbox games which have a big ole 0 install base. Gotta start somewhere I suppose.

I'm pretty sure most of us would agree that both next gen consoles will sold BETTER and have HIGHER install base than WiiU. Also historically speaking consoles form Sony and MS have better 3rd party game sales.

nintendo on the other hand, have this stigma that 'only nintendo games selling on nintendo'. Which is true.

 

[DragonSworne]

Do you copy paste your own replies at this point?

.

 

[Shahadan]

I'm pretty sure most of us would agree that both next gen consoles will sold BETTER and have HIGHER install base than WiiU. Also historically speaking consoles form Sony and MS have better 3rd party game sales.

nintendo on the other hand, have this stigma that 'only nintendo games selling on nintendo'. Which is true.

which is true since 3rd party give them trash no one wants to buy. Or nothing at all, and that won't change anyway.
System is doomed, gamecube redux.

 

[DeuceGamer]

So what is stopping them from making a game for the thing? Because they are working on PS4/ Nextbox games which have a big ole 0 install base. Gotta start somewhere I suppose.

I think they are saying they are turned off by the lack of enthusiasm Nintendo has shown for their game and how tough it is for them to simply contact Nintendo about the Wii U. That's definitely not what you want to hear. With Nintendo already having problems with 3rd party relationships they should be bending over backwards for any 3rd party that even considers to give them a call. At this point there are very few Developers even considering Wii U so when one is, they should be available, and trying to help them as much as possible in my opinion. They simply don't seem to care about 3rd parties, or don't understand how 3rd party relationships are built.

 

[Oersted]

Don't rat them out. In fact, have them tweet shitty things about Nintendo to get some street cred.

Not saying they are lying or anything. Its just weird when you talk to three different developers, all coincidentally from Sweden, all with praise for the support Nintendo is giving them and then comes Avalanche studios along.