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Avalanche (Just Cause) - Wii U dev kits collecting dust, Nintendo is hard to reach
- Thread starter Flightmare
- Start date
H_Prestige
Banned
Nintendo's arrogance continues.
darkstar0155
Member
didnt the PS3 get a lot of late ports at the beginning of this gen (that didnt sell well i may add)?
DragonSworne
Banned
Sony will talk to third parties
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
What's with Nintendo threads? There was absolutely now new info here but people proceed to lose their minds.
Really? Didn't come off like a emotional lunatic ranting? Try rereading it.
Really? Didn't come off like a emotional lunatic ranting? Try rereading it.
PS3 did lose out on some games and had late ports of others. The difference is they were selling PS3 to the right audience.
The Wii U is in a worse position, doesnt have as much room to drop the price, and isn't being marketed to the same demographics that most third parties are looking for.
plagiarize
Banned
all they really needed to do was to make porting to the Wii U from the PS3 and 360 easy. GPU wise it is. CPU wise they messed up.
if porting was cheap, then we'd be seeing more ports because the minimal extra cost would be worth doing. clearly it takes a fair amount of work to get stuff working on the Wii U and that means you have to expect much higher sales to justify doing that extra work.
third party developers have absolutely no responsibility to ensure the Wii U takes off, and they have absolutely no responsibility to support a system that isn't selling.
if porting was cheap, then we'd be seeing more ports because the minimal extra cost would be worth doing. clearly it takes a fair amount of work to get stuff working on the Wii U and that means you have to expect much higher sales to justify doing that extra work.
third party developers have absolutely no responsibility to ensure the Wii U takes off, and they have absolutely no responsibility to support a system that isn't selling.
Because Sony did something about it. They didn't just sit on their laurels and hope the console would sell well enough to be supported, they shipped out programmers to assist third parties in development, demoted Ken K., dropped the price, introduced new models with even lower prices, relaunched the system with a new branding, etc.
There was also quite a few cancelled ports early on in the PS3s life, Saint's Row (1) was one of them iirc. At that point in the HD era it was a pretty major title, too. It also did not get Capcom games like Dead Rising, and got Lost Planet long after the fact, as well as major titles like Bioshock. I'm also sure that the loss of third party exclusives like DMC4 happened in this timespan. The stunted launch of the PS3 did not go over easy for Sony.
Well of course. The truth is Nintendo is the majestic prince high up in the castle while all the third parties look up from the streets below and marvel in the hope they may catch Nintendo's attention. Often he has no time for these lowly folk, but every once in a while he'll look down and point at one and go "You. You may have the honour of producing a game for my system" and the third party will go "Oh thank ye Nintenda. Than ye for blessin' me wit this oppatunity. I will not dissapoin' ya."
Of course they eventual do disappoint and so Nintendo casts them back out on the street and returns to his chambers.
Warm Machine
Member
Business wise they probably looked at NPD reports. Looked at numbers for like games that they would be developing. Saw the 5 figure sales numbers and said to forget it.
For one ps3 was never wiiU bad.
Second there is a historical precedent at play. Sony's was one of successful third party performance across two generations so most developers I assume we're willing to stay the course and had already devoted a lot of resources to the ps3 before its launch.
Nintendo on the other hand has the opposite precedent. A blip on the radar where they struck gold with casuals temporarily and some third parties sold a decent amount of software. But a larger trend of poor third party sales, poor console support, behind on the trends and hardware that often doesn't align well with what third parties are asking for.
Third parties took an active approach early on with Sony because of their historical precedents whereas clearly third parties are taking a wait and see approach with Nintendo because of their historical precedents. And Unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo isn't one to concede hardware decisions to what game makers want the was Microsoft did with 360 and Sony is doing with ps4.
And they helped build audiences for their console that would buy third party games.
darkstar0155
Member
agree with all of this, outside of the "larger trend of poor third party sales"
H_Prestige
Banned
What would happen when major developers stop making ps3/360 games? Because that's going to happen next year.
They may have botched the Wii U a bit in terms of making it a 360 port machine. But that was a shitty plan to begin with if they wanted to get third party games for the next five years or so.
DragonSworne
Banned
Nintendo's problem is they don't treat third parties equally.
They give support to developers like Square-enix, Warners bros, and capcom, even to the point where they publish their games and fund their development. They think rhthis is requited to gain good third party support when in fact it just alienate s the rest of the community.
You don't money hat to get good support, you build good tools and have strong commuication, documentation and teaching capabilities to gain support.
Nintendo had been lagging in these departments for decades.
They give support to developers like Square-enix, Warners bros, and capcom, even to the point where they publish their games and fund their development. They think rhthis is requited to gain good third party support when in fact it just alienate s the rest of the community.
You don't money hat to get good support, you build good tools and have strong commuication, documentation and teaching capabilities to gain support.
Nintendo had been lagging in these departments for decades.
Nintendo's Direct needs to be Iwata holding a hammer instead of a banana. Then he needs smash the Wii U repeatedly with the hammer. Then he needs to announce the cancellation of the Wii U following the words "please understand". All current Wii U owners get a ambassador program of 50% off the next Nintendo system, which will never release.
That too, included it in my edit.
Sony also improved the developer resources (tools, libraries, etc) and shared first party tech in addition to development assistance.
You reap what you sow.
Nintendo is becoming more and more isolated from the rest of the industry and is, steadily, moving towards a glorified niche.
Wii got plenty of 3rd party support.
The kind of support suited to the ecosystem Nintendo created.
Nintendo is becoming more and more isolated from the rest of the industry and is, steadily, moving towards a glorified niche.
Wii got plenty of 3rd party support.
The kind of support suited to the ecosystem Nintendo created.
Much stronger than 360 in mainland Europe and crushed it in Japan. 3rd parties HAD to target both machines and went through years of pain to get their multi platform development processes up to the task. And Sony went into panic mode to reach out to the 3rd party devs and start improving PSN functionality as well (The ease of using XBL to get their games online was one of the Xbox's original trump cards for 3rd party devs).
I dont think so.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Bingo? Bingo.
He needs to be holding a letter of resignation and then walk off screen after saying "I understand."
What I'm curious about is how there is a new thread everyday about a similar issue and the gaf gaming collective manages to reproduced the exact same conversation every time. perfectly. It's incredible. Like "let's collectively shit on WiiU 'cause it's the cool thing to do right now" threads are our version of going to a bar after work.
One group jumps into these threads totally excited because the topic validates their dislike of the system and/or company, others come in here trying to reign in the trolling and setting the record straight with the flood of half truths that gets thrown around. Ultimately it's a bunch of folks arguing about the same thing with the same arguments from the last thread, posted a day before.
I really do think we need to bring mega-threads back and dump all the WiiU/Nintendo-shitting into one place.
One group jumps into these threads totally excited because the topic validates their dislike of the system and/or company, others come in here trying to reign in the trolling and setting the record straight with the flood of half truths that gets thrown around. Ultimately it's a bunch of folks arguing about the same thing with the same arguments from the last thread, posted a day before.
I really do think we need to bring mega-threads back and dump all the WiiU/Nintendo-shitting into one place.
Nintendo's death marked the death of the whole industry. R I P in peace.
Yeah, PS3 was never doing this poorly. And it did rebound as developers hoped it would.
Why? Since the snes third parties have had a historically difficult time with selling on Nintendo consoles.
Gamecube and N64 third party games mostly all sold significantly worse then their Sony counterparts. Same goes with most ps3 third party games vs wii games. Heck one of the gamecube a flagship third party games, resident evil 4, ultimately sold more on ps2 than gamecube.
You also try to build an ecosystem that offers a friendly and lucrative environment for 3rd parties to sell their games on.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
It probably helps that the PS2 had a much larger install base and that the PS2 version was announced before it even hit the GameCube, which pretty much killed any shot of it doing better than it would have.
darkstar0155
Member
my apologies, i was just thinking of the wii/ps3/360 gen. Your completely correct if you go past the last 10 years though. Although i dont think you can compare ps3 3rd parties to wii 3rd parties. What game(s) could we even use to make a comparison?
RE4 only ended up barely selling more on the PS2 didnt it? Either way, given the install bases thats completely understandable (why they announced a PS2 version before the GC version launched baffles me.. im sure a lot of people just waited)
I would be surprised if they were easy to reach. Nintendo is just being Nintendo. Nothing new here.
Good luck making Nintendo games without Nintendo.
Good luck making Nintendo games without Nintendo.
Yeah the Gamecube, technically speaking, was a great machine. It just got hit by the PS2 steamroller that, let's not forget, killed Sega. Third parties in that gen cut costs by just targeting the one dominant machine (even though it was hard to develop for). The GC did suffer from Nintendo's experiment with toy like design but mostly the PS2 just flat out suffocated everybody to the point that even Microsoft (who at that time were the gigantic uber scary monopolistic corp that controlled EVERY PC IN THE WORLD) got concerned.
The situation isn't comparable to the WiiU in 2013 where 3rd parties expect to target multiple machines with their games.
The situation isn't comparable to the WiiU in 2013 where 3rd parties expect to target multiple machines with their games.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
No Just Cause 3 on Wii U?? Well fuck.
This.
Yep, they are essentially doing the Dream Team shit again.
TalesOfWin
Banned
Somehow this news is DICE fault.
Mithos
Member
And yet one of the first comments in threads about games that will not be coming on Wii U is, Nintendo should have money hatted if they wanted to get a Wii U version.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Baconsammy
Banned
True. I'll be way too busy for that when the next gen consoles arrive
Well-played.
TalesOfWin
Banned
he is right though.
Warm Machine
Member
Yeah. In fact if we time travel back to 2005 Nintendo's whole deal was selling developers on the Wii by virtue of low cost, experimental, non traditional, original games, for a wide audience and that is exactly what was delivered by 3rd parties.
Meanwhile MS and Sony were all about graphics, animation, and large worlds for a core gamer audience and that is exactly what they got and more.
I don't even know what Nintendo is selling to developers this time around. It is like they are not saying and expecting people to just throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Hey if Nintendo themselves could not provide confidence in their system by releasing quality titles for it, why should 3rd parties. I would argue that 3rd parties have done more than Nintendo has to this point for the Wii U.
Zombie U
Lego City
Monster Hunter
Rayman - yea I know...but it's done
all four of these games show more effort than any 1st party game Nintendo has released or for that matter shown!
Zombie U
Lego City
Monster Hunter
Rayman - yea I know...but it's done
all four of these games show more effort than any 1st party game Nintendo has released or for that matter shown!
Then we simply hire loads of new people with smarter intelligence as one of it's qualifications.
Yeah the Wii U discussions run in circles. You can't deny there's not much to talk about the system, it's failing on almost every front. These discussions are spurred by negative stories which seem to hit everyday.
Things are looking really dire for the system. I really hope they do something.