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[TouchMyBox]

Well I just pulled the trigger on a 4770k along with 16 GB of RAM and a Gigabyte Z87x-ud3h. Should be a nice step up from my i7 930.

Now to see if I regret not waiting for Steamroller.

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

so better option is to go with amd 8730 and ivy-bridge i5 ?

If you want to play games, yes.

Besides, Nvidia/AMD drivers will have better support for games than Intel. It might be a double-edged sword though. You can never know if bottlenecks are at architectural level or drivers. Several times in the past we have seen 'boom' drivers improving performance in double digits.

 

[aeolist]

so better option is to go with amd 86xx and ivy-bridge i5 ?

AMD and nVidia just rolled out new GPU designs, neither of which was a big leap over the previous gen because there's not a smaller process node from TSMC or new architectures. probably the nVidia 700 series looks a little better right now but both are pretty good. you'd have to wait a while if you want the AMD 8000s.

IVB would be the best current price/performance recommendation in CPUs

edit: oh right the new AMD are the 8000s, i get so lost when they do a rebadge "upgrade" like this time

 

[Kiraly]

Still rocking a Phenom II X2 550 with an HD4670 here, everything cool

Spoiler

Barely play any PC games but still runs almost everything with above average settings on 720p

 

[mkenyon]

upgrade to broadwell? the CPU line that's going BGA only on the desktop?

sure thing

Yeah, I'm not sure how that'll work out in the end.

With the prices of the Z87 motherboards being what they are, if you want a 4C/8T processor, it seems hard to ignore an X79/3820 system right now. There will be a drop-in Ivy-E upgrade released in 5-6 months too.

40 PCI Lanes and Quad Channel Memory are nice bonuses too.

 

[GreenNight]

What would you guys recommend for a mITX board for Haswell? Looking to build a gaming PC to hook to my HDTV. No interest in over clocking.

 

[BobTheSpy]

AMD better bring the heat with piledriver. I don't care if it's not what "most people need" - I want bloody FASTER CPUs!

 

[aeolist]

Yeah, I'm not sure how that'll work out in the end.

With the prices of the Z87 motherboards being what they are, if you want a 4C/8T processor, it seems hard to ignore an X79/3820 system right now. There will be a drop-in Ivy-E upgrade released in 5-6 months too.

40 PCI Lanes and Quad Channel Memory are nice bonuses too.

i have heard from sources in the know that broadwell is staying BGA only but haswell will see a refresh with some of the new features added but staying on 22nm

so not that horrible of a situation but i still very much doubt they'll use the same socket/north bridge

 

[aeolist]

What would you guys recommend for a mITX board for Haswell? Looking to build a gaming PC to hook to my HDTV. No interest in over clocking.

gigabyte has always been super solid for me

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128599

 

[Ty4on]

AMD better bring the heat with piledriver. I don't care if it's not what "most people need" - I want bloody FASTER CPUs!

Piledriver is out. Vishera (FX) and Trinity (A6, A8, A10) use piledriver modules that have a mild performance boost over the older Bulldozer modules.

i have heard from sources in the know that broadwell is staying BGA only but haswell will see a refresh with some of the new features added but staying on 22nm

so not that horrible of a situation but i still very much doubt they'll use the same socket/north bridge

I doubt the high end (X79) will ever be BGA.

 

[watership]

Can't wait to see how these new CPUs will perform in the new ultrabooks.

And tablets!

 

[mkenyon]

AMD better bring the heat with piledriver. I don't care if it's not what "most people need" - I want bloody FASTER CPUs!

That's what the enthusiast socket is for.

gigabyte has always been super solid for me

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128599

Their Z77 ITX board prevented OC'ing via ratio. I'd hold off on any ITX board purchases until some solid reviews are out.

Buying motherboards within the first few days of a new socket is a really really really risky thing to do, unless you are only looking at the high end stuff.

 

[GreenNight]

gigabyte has always been super solid for me

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128599

Yeah thats not mITX. Doesnt look like there are many of that form factor for Haswell yet.

That's what the enthusiast socket is for.

Their Z77 ITX board prevented OC'ing via ratio. I'd hold off on any ITX board purchases until some solid reviews are out.

Buying motherboards within the first few days of a new socket is a really really really risky thing to do, unless you are only looking at the high end stuff.

That makes sense. Will wait for reviews.

 

[teh_pwn]

Actually, AMD Jaguar is the best CPU in terms of Watt/performance. It beats any current Intel low power solution at the same frequency. However, Intel clearly have the leads in high performance CPUs.

http://beta.fool.com/peterpham8/2013/03/03/amd-pounces-intel-jaguar/25663/

If true my Living Room HTPC/Console port PC will use this CPU. It's 60 Hz limited anyway, so frame latency won't be as big of an issue. I cannot believe AMD is close to catching up. Intel must be creating a completely new core design or something.

 

[fluffydelusions]

And tablets!

Indeed. Aren't ms showing surface pro 2 this month?

 

[Lime]

I can't believe I'm still on my unlocked X3 720.

When will the consumer-priced six/eight-core Intel processors be released? I'm thinking about jumping once they release.

 

[teh_pwn]

The difference between the 750 and 2500K is enhanced by the fact the 2500K ships with much faster clocks too. The 750 is still a capable chip at stock, let alone oc'd to around 3.8GHz.

My point is that Haswell is a tock but in real world performance it doesn't even match the improvement of a tick. Very underwhelming. Taking a synthethic benchmark that mixes in AVX2 (I'm presuming) isn't indicative of the real world <5% IPC improvement. At work I even disable hyperthreading for compute on programs that are degraded by HT, so for that, Haswell is a downgrade over the 2011 2500K @ 4.8 GHz.

At work I overclocked a dozen Ivy Bridges and I have seen the "heat wall". Most get to 4.4-4.5 GHz but stubbornly won't get 4.6 GHz stable.

If that IPC improvement with AMD is real, I may even switch to AMD at work! Especially if Xilinx Vivado uses multiple core. Bizarro world. Wtf is Intel doing.

 

[Ty4on]

I can't believe I'm still on my unlocked X3 720.

When will the consumer-priced six/eight-core Intel processors be released? I'm thinking about jumping once they release.

There aren't even any unlocked eight cores for sale
The cheapest six core worth buying is the 3930k.

 

[Projectjustice]

Piledriver is out. Vishera (FX) and Trinity (A6, A8, A10) use piledriver modules that have a mild performance boost over the older Bulldozer modules.

A 15% to 20% boost isnt what i called mild.

Hugs FX-8350*

 

[teh_pwn]

AMD and nVidia just rolled out new GPU designs, neither of which was a big leap over the previous gen because there's not a smaller process node from TSMC or new architectures. probably the nVidia 700 series looks a little better right now but both are pretty good. you'd have to wait a while if you want the AMD 8000s.

IVB would be the best current price/performance recommendation in CPUs

edit: oh right the new AMD are the 8000s, i get so lost when they do a rebadge "upgrade" like this time

8000s are OEM only. 9000s are a die shrink, rumored for December/January.

 

[Lime]

There aren't even any unlocked eight cores for sale
The cheapest six core worth buying is the 3930k.

That's why I am asking about the release date, cf. the roadmap

 

[teiresias]

I wouldn't even be looking at an upgrade from my i7-870 if it wasn't for the fact that my motherboard is acting a bit flakey lately and I'd like to move off of it in case it decides to fry my entire system.

This just makes it more annoying to decide, but I can't buy anything for at least another month, so I wonder if the IB cpus would still even be around by that time. I'm willing to make the two hour drive to a microcenter for a good deal too.

 

[mkenyon]

If true my Living Room HTPC/Console port PC will use this CPU. It's 60 Hz limited anyway, so frame latency won't be as big of an issue. I cannot believe AMD is close to catching up. Intel must be creating a completely new core design or something.

Frame latency isn't some weird thing that is different from FPS. It measures the same thing, but more accurately. It's not *just* about variance, it's that it's accurate enough to measure variance, so the same data is used for that.

A 15% to 20% boost isnt what i called mild.

Hugs FX-8350*

Too bad it trades blows with a 4 year old Intel CPU in CPU demanding games.

I can't believe I'm still on my unlocked X3 720.

When will the consumer-priced six/eight-core Intel processors be released? I'm thinking about jumping once they release.

Skylake maybe, so like 2ish years.

 

[kharma45]

upgrade to broadwell? the CPU line that's going BGA only on the desktop?

sure thing

There will be LGA options.

 

[watership]

Indeed. Aren't ms showing surface pro 2 this month?

I thought it was just a Japanese Surface with twice the memory.

 

[clav]

Disappointing.

Oh well, still have my eyes on those 35 W TDP processors.

I will wait for AMD and see how Steamroller compares. If a new Steamroller chip singlehandedly beats my plan of a 35 Watt Haswell processor + old graphics card, I will go for that instead.

I'm also planning a build for a AMD Kabini setup with an ITX board as an upgrade to the old AMD XP 2800+ setups in the house. 9 years of service. I think it's time for them to retire.

 

[aeolist]

Disappointing.

Oh well, still have my eyes on those 35 W TDP processors.

I will wait for AMD and see how Steamroller compares. If a new Steamroller chip singlehandedly beats my plan of a 35 Watt Haswell processor + old graphics card, I will go for that instead.

there's no way steamroller will beat haswell on any real metric except price

 

[clav]

there's no way steamroller will beat haswell on any real metric except price

Price matters a lot.

 

[clav]

There will be LGA options.

for $$$$$$$

You can count on Intel dissuading traditionalists by upping the price on those modular chips.

 

[Xyphie]

I was under the impression Broadwell isn't coming to desktops. I thought the latest was that we'd get "Haswell Refresh" (still 22 nm) in 2014 and then Skylake in 2015.

 

[Projectjustice]

Too bad it trades blows with a 4 year old Intel CPU in CPU demanding games.

Yet it excels in Multithreading.

Which is something thats going to be used more in the upcoming generation of games. Theres no doubt that Intel CPUs are ahead but Piledriver is still a good option.

 

[aeolist]

I was under the impression Broadwell isn't coming to desktops. I thought the latest was that we'd get "Haswell Refresh" (still 22 nm) in 2014 and then Skylake in 2015.

this is exactly what's happening

 

[DeFiBkIlLeR]

i want amd to do as well as the next guy but this sounds really suspect to me. 30% IPC improvements when they'll still be on 32/28nm with a high TDP and die size... i'm doubtful.

Steamroller is getting the IPC improvements (supposedly) because the cores will no longer have to share the FPU as they currently do...that will give them back 15-20% of the improvement, just doing that, the rest will come from refinements and other changes.

Basically, they're going to be 'proper' hardware cores rather than the current 'modules'.

AMD have eaten humble pie on the bulldozer design and are going back to traditional resource sharing and scheduling.

 

[clav]

this is exactly what's happening

I thought the LGA version will be called Broadwell-D (Desktop).

Steamroller is getting the IPC improvements (supposedly) because the cores will no longer have to share the FPU as they currently do.

Basically, they're going to be 'proper' hardware cores rather than the current 'modules'.

AMD have eaten humble pie on the bulldozer design and are going back to traditional resource sharing and scheduling.

Bulldozer was rushed out the gate, and only the true vision of Bulldozer started with Piledriver.

Steamroller will be an improvement. Look forward to reviews.

 

[Nachtmaer]

Yet it excels in Multithreading.

Which is something thats going to be used more in the upcoming generation of games. Theres no doubt that Intel CPUs are ahead but Piledriver is still a good option.

Considering what AMD pulled off with Bulldozer -> Piledriver, which is basically a respun chip with minor tweaks, I'm curious to see what Steamroller will bring.

Steamroller is getting the IPC improvements (supposedly) because the cores will no longer have to share the FPU as they currently do.

They're still keeping the FPU shared, but they're splitting up the decode.

 

[Ty4on]

Steamroller is getting the IPC improvements (supposedly) because the cores will no longer have to share the FPU as they currently do.

Basically, they're going to be 'proper' hardware cores rather than the current 'modules'.

AMD have eaten humble pie on the bulldozer design and are going back to traditional resource sharing and scheduling.

Intel's Silvermont removed hyper threading and instead uses dual core modules. AMD's Jaguar use quad core modules.

 

[mkenyon]

Yet it excels in Multithreading.

Which is something thats going to be used more in the upcoming generation of games. Theres no doubt that Intel CPUs are ahead but Piledriver is still a good option.

Except any game so far that has an n-theaded engine, CPU differences are totally negligible, and the bottleneck is entirely on the GPU.

$10-15 savings compared to a 2500K/3570K, being unable to use mATX boards for fear of your chipset literally going up in smoke, and the insane power draw isn't a very solid proposition.

 

[Ty4on]

Except any game so far that has an n-theaded engine, CPU differences are totally negligible, and the bottleneck is entirely on the GPU.

Crysis 3 is different. Dunno about frametimes, but the 8350 outperforms the 3570k in average FPS.

 

[clav]

$10-15 savings compared to a 2500K/3570K, being unable to use mATX boards for fear of your chipset literally going up in smoke, and the insane power draw isn't a very solid proposition.

My 6 year old Intel LGA775 mATX setup went up in smoke.

RIP

 

[Projectjustice]

Crysis 3 is different. Dunno about frametimes, but the 8350 outperforms the 3570k in average FPS.

Good example of what Im talking about.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I wouldn't even be looking at an upgrade from my i7-870 if it wasn't for the fact that my motherboard is acting a bit flakey lately and I'd like to move off of it in case it decides to fry my entire system.

This just makes it more annoying to decide, but I can't buy anything for at least another month, so I wonder if the IB cpus would still even be around by that time. I'm willing to make the two hour drive to a microcenter for a good deal too.

That's exactly what caused me to bite earlier than I wanted with my current system.

Continued having issues after upgrade, only to finally discover it was my Razer Deathadder mouse causing the issues. POS. It didn't even have the dignity to die, just mess with my computer (hard locks and stuff).

 

[clav]

That's exactly what caused me to bite earlier than I wanted with my current system.

Continued having issues after upgrade, only to finally discover it was my Razer Deathadder mouse causing the issues. POS. It didn't even have the dignity to die, just mess with my computer (hard locks and stuff).

I'm curious. Why do people buy Razer products?

 

[mkenyon]

Crysis 3 is different. Dunno about frametimes, but the 8350 outperforms the 3570k in average FPS.

Frame times and FPS is the same thing, the latter is just less accurate. It hides the outliers and where things go wrong, which is precisely the issue with AMD CPU's for gaming performance.

 

[SoulClap]

So does this graph indicate that a 3820 and 3930k would perform worse with games than a 2500k and 2600k?

 

[clav]

So does this graph indicate that a 3820 and 3930k would perform worse with games than a 2500k and 2600k?

In the end, it doesn't matter.

At worse, the difference is 2-5 frames.

If the comparison were 30 frames+, then we have some talking material.

 

[aeolist]

Intel's Silvermont removed hyper threading and instead uses dual core modules. AMD's Jaguar use quad core modules.

different modules. with silvermont and jaguar the cores are fully independent except for L2 cache, steamroller so far has shared a lot more resources between integer cores.

 

[Ty4on]

Frame times and FPS is the same thing, the latter is just less accurate. It hides the outliers and where things go wrong, which is precisely the issue with AMD CPU's for gaming performance.

The same results showed a higher minimum FPS for the 3570k so it would be interesting to see how the various frametimes were and how many frames were slower than 16ms. Reviews should just graph frametimes and be done with it

 

[1-D_FTW]

I'm curious. Why do people buy Razer products?

Well I certainly wouldn't buy another Razer mouse if that's what you're asking. Even in the annals of Razer gripes, my experience there exceeded most people's problems. If it had been a problem from day one, or just died, I wouldn't have cared. But it really did cause me to upgrade the system for fear of the motherboard taking everything out with it Couldn't believe that was the actual problem. A flaky mouse.

 

[mkenyon]

So does this graph indicate that a 3820 and 3930k would perform worse with games than a 2500k and 2600k?

It indicates almost nothing. Crappy metric, especially for differences that are that similar. HardOCP is obsolete.

The same results showed a higher minimum FPS for the 3570k so it would be interesting to see how the various frametimes were and how many frames were slower than 16ms. Reviews should just graph frametimes and be done with it

Agree 100%

 

[Daingurse]

I'm still rocking my 980x @ 4GHz, still seems to handle everything that I throw at it.

980x @4.0ghz, my man.