Thanks Barney. Any other things you want to spell out for us?
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TLOU (Before & After E3 demo) MAJOR differences!
- Thread starter Cave Johnson
- Start date
Thanks Barney. Any other things you want to spell out for us?
So I'm catching up with the thread... Are people actually mad at the AI or is this just a chance to go all out negative cause its Naughty Dog? The AI at that part of the game differs for people but without spoiling anything I've seen the same type of agressive/responsive AI like 5-10 mins after that scene.
Uno Venova
Banned
I don't know what it is about Naughty Dog that makes people loose their minds.
Itchy//Tasty
Member
One time on NG+ Normal, I entered a room thinking I'd cleared the whole area out, whilst Ellie hung back and crouched near to the door behind me. She knew there was one enemy remaining, but I didn't. Suddenly I heard her whisper "there's a guy behind you!' I spun around 180 degrees quickly, and saw something awesome. The guy had entered the room quietly with a shotgun, and was advancing on me. He had the listen mode's white aura around him (even though Listen was turned off because Ellie's warning 'marked' him). Suddenly Ellie jumped on his back and stabbed him several times in the chest whilst he spun crazily around trying to fight her off. Finally he slipped into death's cold clutches, I just looked on in awe, she had completely saved my ass.
And it was the best AI ever, and then I had chocolate ice cream.
And it was the best AI ever, and then I had chocolate ice cream.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
This thread is getting out of control. OP just wanted to create a backdoor hate fest for everyone that hasn't played the game.
If you are someone that legitimately is excited for the Last Of Us don't believe the BS from the OP. The game isn't like that at all and it has some excellent AI.
If you are someone that legitimately is excited for the Last Of Us don't believe the BS from the OP. The game isn't like that at all and it has some excellent AI.
Actually yes, the game does deserve it because of how brilliant it is in just about every aspect.
I love the Uncharted series, but I wasn't all too fond of Uncharted 3 because of the near-constant and repetitive gunfights every five minutes. I don't love a game because of any one particular developer, I love a game because it's GOOD... and I love it.
Remember that part where you play as Naughty Dog using your Naughty Dog to take down that Naughty Dog so he doesn't Naughty Dog the human race? Sorry bud, but Naughty Dog making the game has ZERO to do with people giving it critical praise.
The game is great based on feedback from the masses, even if you don't agree. Deal with it.
astroturfing
Member
One time on NG+ Normal, I entered a room thinking I'd cleared the whole area out, whilst Ellie hung back and crouched near to the door behind me. She knew there was one enemy remaining, but I didn't. Suddenly I heard her whisper "there's a guy behind you!' I spun around 180 degrees quickly, and saw something awesome. The guy had entered the room quietly with a shotgun, and was advancing on me. He had the listen mode's white aura around him (even though Listen was turned off because Ellie's warning 'marked' him). Suddenly Ellie jumped on his back and stabbed him several times in the chest whilst he spun crazily around trying to fight her off. Finally he slipped into death's cold clutches, I just looked on in awe, she had completely saved my ass.
And it was the best AI ever, and then I had chocolate ice cream.
sounds really cool. i haven't played the game yet, but if the AI really allows for situations like this.. i can't understand why anyone would complain.
meh I'm not surprised that I didn't match that god-tier e3 presentation but neither did Bioshock: Infinite.
Has there been other games that have had an e3 presentation where the final game isn't anywhere close to the demo?
Either way it's a disturbing trend. I'd rather developers show us what they have and not what their ambitions are.
Has there been other games that have had an e3 presentation where the final game isn't anywhere close to the demo?
Either way it's a disturbing trend. I'd rather developers show us what they have and not what their ambitions are.
Because there are people who will try to find what little they can use to bring a game down.
I've had similar situations like that as well. Something to the effect of me running out of ammo shooting at a guy while I fumbled around in my backpack trying to pull out my other gun when a guy comes in the room and is getting ready to shoot some holes in me and Ellie jumps on him and starts stabbing him like a crazy person.
amstradcpc
Member
I am curious what will be the ND bashing thread of tomorrow...
I'm still waiting for the "Naughty Dog is racist" one myself. I'm sure some idiot will try to spin that at some point.
Are you saying that the difference between The Last of Us retail and E3 2012 is equivalent to BioShock Infinite retail and E3 2011?
Hidden One
Member
I hope ND releases a patch for a new difficultly with the AI like it was originally.
This post has reminded me how happy I am that N'Gai Croal is no longer a prominent games journalist.
blitzcloud
Banned
Like he would ever accept
At least try it. That way we'll know for sure what his intent was
I never said they we're equal but they both did present something that they were not able to deliver on.
A backdoor hate fest? :lol
Really? Aren't we allowed to criticize certain aspects of the game without being stigmatized as haters?
And from my experience the AI is all but excellent; I've finished the game on hard and don't know about survivor, but the video reflects my experience almost perfectly.
The game has some issues and AI - enemy or comrade - plays a huge part
I'm just wondering about the implication of what you saying.
Because based on this thread in one case it's the lack of AI opening drawers.
And in the other case where the openness in the level does not exist, doesn't have gameplay mechanics that were shown off, enemy types don't exist at all and various other things that were shown off in the gameplay demo that aren't even hinted at in the final game.
One of them I would classify as major and the other as minor differences. But maybe I'm just not hyperbolic enough to participate in video game discussions.
Itchy//Tasty
Member
It's pretty rare, to be fair. But cool shit does go down, especially if you really explore the gameplay and don't just hurry forward, experiment and raise that difficulty. I'm playing on Hard currently and the combat situations are intense.
Because Hitman Absolution was free on PS Plus last month, I pretty much went from finishing that, straight into TLOU. I like Hitman, but when it comes to AI, TLOU is like leaping forward a generation.
Cave Johnson
Member
That's a pretty baseless accusation. If anything, we should be more cynical and more critical with our analysis considering that they managed to throw us a curveball underhandedly at the end. Even taking the AI issues aside, many other features like searching through drawers and such is unnecessarily taken out from the game. Nowhere did I state the game did not deserve the reception, all I did got a video and posted the observation to relay discussion considering the theme (the AI) is a highlight for anyone who observed the game since it's reveal.
Now it's back-pedalling and sweeping issues under-the-table because anybody who criticizes the game (whether legit or not) MUST have an agenda to hate it. Look at my previous posts especially since the reveal and have been a staunch defender of the original E3/Gamescom playthrough. This on the other was a disappointment to say the least and rightfully so as I felt all that effort defending the game was put to waste.
WoolyNinja
Member
Didn't even have to watch the entire video... this guy went out of his way to find a few spots where the AI is buggy.
I've had a few spots where they acted a bit weird, but overall my experience was much closer to the E3 demo than to the video this guy made.
Just as a quick example... I've had people yell "Watch out, he has a gun" and run away to group back up with his friends many times even on Normal difficulty.
I've had a few spots where they acted a bit weird, but overall my experience was much closer to the E3 demo than to the video this guy made.
Just as a quick example... I've had people yell "Watch out, he has a gun" and run away to group back up with his friends many times even on Normal difficulty.
After reading all the posts in this thread you still think what is being done in the E3 demo and what is done in the final game is a MAJOR difference?
Is that because you think the people replying with their first hand account in this thread of what they experienced are liars or what do you base that on?
All the stuff that happened in the e3 demo happened at some point in my play through. I Think the issue is that most of that stuff is contextual and since everyone can't play the game exactly the same different things happen for everyone. And that is a huge positive for me. There were complaints that the game was scripted from the demo lol.
And there were some new things they added as well like if you are running on wood on a upper floor enemies below will take notice.
And there were some new things they added as well like if you are running on wood on a upper floor enemies below will take notice.
Fried Food
Banned
wanting the game to play just as its displayed in the demo vid would destroy it?
As has been said many times, people have seen during playthroughs all the stuff mentioned by people as missing.
I dunno man, the IQ is massively improved over Uncharted 3, in fact it's usually pretty damn good. The game is a little grainier than most but that's more the art-style imo and not the AA solution. Likewise I wouldn't consider the AI bad, as it's still reactive to the player, and feels dynamic at a level beyond any other TPS game I've played, same with the gameplay.
flaxknuckles
Member
RustyNails
Member
Lol pathetic. All the feels I felt with the game, the heart attack inducing scariness, bar setting dialogue, script and deeply complex characters, exhilarating combat and tons of other awesome components of the game are bullshit because press loves ND. Get lost.
It was rather irresponsible to post up that link without getting your facts straight (it's understandable if you weren't sure, but this was really quite obvious). Not much of a discussion comes of this other than basically everybody pointing out that the video is inaccurate, and those few who prefer to troll around, having never played the actual game.
Please, elaborate on these "many other features".
Fried Food
Banned
my main complaint is that the graphics and sound design are so downgraded from the demo vid. There was stronger sense of atmosphere in the demo. Also the enemy animations aren't nearly as seemless in the final game.
Is there actually a video online that shows the E3 demo 1:1? Or at least the last part with the wrestling on the ground?
timmaysmittay
Member
The only things that didn't happen in my playthrough from the E3 demo were them searching through drawers and the final shotgun wrestle, everything else is possible and quite frankly easy to do.
Enemies beg for their lives after you beat them onto their hands and knees, at that point you can draw your weapon and it will automatically lock on their head at which point they will beg. If you leave they will wait a bit and then kamikaze rush you.
I have only played on Hard and Survivor but I have had enemies rush me sayin "I know that sound" or "he's fuckin out!" whenever my clip runs out and I accidentally pull the trigger to hear *click*
The brick takedowns, Ellie saving your ass by stabbing a guy in the back, the search patterns of the enemies, its all there folks, if you think its toned down significantly you need to play on a higher difficulty.
Enemies beg for their lives after you beat them onto their hands and knees, at that point you can draw your weapon and it will automatically lock on their head at which point they will beg. If you leave they will wait a bit and then kamikaze rush you.
I have only played on Hard and Survivor but I have had enemies rush me sayin "I know that sound" or "he's fuckin out!" whenever my clip runs out and I accidentally pull the trigger to hear *click*
The brick takedowns, Ellie saving your ass by stabbing a guy in the back, the search patterns of the enemies, its all there folks, if you think its toned down significantly you need to play on a higher difficulty.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Well I trust your posts Nibel and must have missed yours earlier in the thread but my play through was the complete opposite from you which strikes me as very odd.
Watching that Original E3 demo I can check the vast majority of features exhibited there as being represented in the final game. It is a accurate representation of what I played so your post seemed to be mostly hyperbole but if people like Nibel have a similar experience there must be some legitimacy to your claims I just don't think its the huge bait and switch you try to make it appear.
28 Posts Later
Member
The vast majority of them - these demos are highly polished, scripted for show, segments of a work in progress. The AI in the E3 demo is, of course, scripted, it's far too seamless, creates far too much tension and reacts perfectly in such a way that the final game could never hope to achieve because it's something that has been designed specifically for show.
The AI in the final game is still up there with the best, but is obviously not as seamless and free of issues as the highly polished / scripted E3 illusion displayed - as is the case with almost all E3 demos. That shouldn't be a slight on the game, that's people buying into inane hype that the game won't be free of issues and will completely deliver on its target. The AI in the finished version of the game is pretty excellent, and is certainly closer to that displayed in the E3 demo than the video in the OP when looked at as a whole [not saying there aren't some issues, but that's expected to occur a few times in a 15-20 hour game.]
blitzcloud
Banned
searching in drawers.
Example of why it could've been removed. Maybe they opened them while staying far away, and when a checkpoint was reached it appeared as looted because they opened it. I think it's a small lost "feature"
Example of why it could've been removed. Maybe they opened them while staying far away, and when a checkpoint was reached it appeared as looted because they opened it. I think it's a small lost "feature"
I wrote my thoughts of the game before watching the video and noticed the same issues as him.
As I've repeatedly said: I like the game, I think it's a good one - but it's far from being the incredible achievement that people describe it as
I remember ND saying that the enemies will loot the area if you don't fight them. Does that still happen?
Cave Johnson
Member
How exactly are you pulling that out of my statement? I'm only emphasizing in comparison to the AI from the final copy and E3. Yes, many of the "elements" of that E3 demo made it to the final game THAT IS NOT DISPUTED. What I'm trying to point out is the nuance of the application between demo and retail made that a game changer. The problem here is that too many posters focus on taking the AI and trying to make as close of a comparison as they could and call it a day. This is where so many missed the point.
Look at the E3/Gamescom demo again. It's the player AGENCY and EMERGENCE that is a major differentiator. Despite being "scripted", the ongoing result is a slower paced gameplay with emphasis on tension were every move could be a life-to-death scenario.
Enemies react much more dynamically and even go out of their way to throw the player into a disarray. This is why Joel getting pummelled face first on the desk was shocking or wrestling a gun out of an enemy increases the tension immensely. The danger the player has to face which will result in unique scenarios further indicating that this isn't your everyday AI. This would be consistent to the attention-of-detail ND is trying to push, proving to other developers that they will go the extra "mile" even if it could be passed as superficial. It may be "minor" to you but for others it really killed a lot of the hype.
This is the equivalent of the Uncharted 2's train sequence suddenly resorting back to your typical non-dynamic fare. They're practically the same in concept, but the dynamism of the train sequence that can throw off your aim makes that MUCH of a difference. Point being, had we have the game shipped exactly the way the E3 demo was intended we will be noticing a difference in playstyle. If playing on hard mode while minimizing resources could be drastically different from the normal setting, then imagine the avenues where the AI could literally remove said resources if you are unable to reach it in time.
I was hoping the discussion could at least be steered to that direction instead of the "oh-look-here's-the-negative-thread-bashing" responses I'm seeing to date.
BloodyJasonMask
Member
Everything in the E3 demo happened in the actual game for me, other than the enemies searching for supplies and wrestling for the shotgun. It's sucks that you couldn't expirence it through your play through.