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[SEGAvangelist]

Hmm, that's certainly very interesting news. Yet another insider claiming DF's numbers or fudged or outdated. I'm just going to continue to believe we'll end up with 6GB dedicated to gaming and 2GB for all OS features. I also believe Sony has declined commenting on numbers, because they're simply not finalized yet, or they're hoping to reveal more OS features at Gamescom. Either way, I can't wait for Gamescom, because by then all Sony execs will be grilled for detailed numbers about the system, and we should have our clear answer by then.

This whole deal of Sony playing coy reminds me of the whole E3 DRM controversy. They could easily be waiting to make the most impact with their announcement. I mean, even MS wanted to sit on their good indie support news, until Gamescom. Doesn't seem out of the question that both companies are withholding more than just games to announce.

This isn't like DRM, though. It's only a major news story for the console warriors on both sides. Announcing it to be false wouldn't have close to the same effect that the DRM/Used games announcement had. Indie announcement seems more important to me. Where there's smoke, there's fire, though. DF's story may not have the numbers right, but there must be some truth to it based on what the NeoGAF insiders have said.

EDIT: Btw, does the possible large RAM allocation for the OS point to Sony maybe having intended to include the PS Eye in every box? The light features on the controller as well.

 

[Nightengale]

I understand why Sony's not giving out hard numbers though, it seems like every PS4 advantage they have put out in public, MS has just went and outright copied it.

Because they've never given out hard numbers for these kind of things?

From a marketing stand-point, it dilutes the simplicity and marketability of 8GB RAM as a talking point, since a revelation of these numbers basically go into the tech details, as well as a revelation of how much RAM is 'kept aside' for future-proofing. Even MS didn't reveal how much of their 3GB is not fully utilised for future-proofing.

I can only give insights from a marketing standpoint though. I'm sure there's other reasons too, but basically there are just things you keep hidden, be it to one-up your competition, or whatever.

It's the same as devkits. Sony's 'loaning of devkits for free' is almost certainly tied with tons of NDA, and a lot of fine-print. Sony is not going to tell you what those 'fine-print' details are, because it 'dilutes' their image as a dev-loving company. Nor is MS going to tell you what those 'XB1 retail units usable for development' are all about in detail. Fees, licensing cost, tools included, limitations... You think any company will lay it all out openly?

 

[DietRob]

What does this mean?

That Bish ate a non Rob sanctioned breakfast food.

WhatRobWillNotEat

 

[bronzeP]

Ok, another assumption:

DF has the wrong numbers and this insider got approved and knows that those numbers are wrong. The thing is that the post he made is still not in the OP is because it clearly isn't the whole story. I guess he told him that the numbers aren't final yet or they might be completely different. We don't know...expect of this approved insider.

Question to the Insider(s): Why don't you tell the actual story instead of teasing an already heated up community?

 

[Black Republican]

http://ps4daily.com/2013/04/playstation-4-developers-7-gb-ram/

Here's the thread-

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=538575

ps4daily?

 

[Samyy]

I'm hoping for a Gamescom "6 GB to developers, guys" statement that puts these fears to rest.

SCEI has been great at positively responding to gamer concerns so far...I see no reason why they wouldn't continue that sentiment.

Specs are for developers, not for gamers - they put the tech in there for the people to make the games that your supposed to want.

If the developers are happy why in gods name do you care, like at all?

 

[Takuya]

So if this 4.5 malarkey is true, does that mean Sony lied? I certainly think it would paint them as disingenuous.

Lied about what exactly? I'm curious.

 

[Moobabe]

Ok, another assumption:

DF has the wrong numbers and this insider got approved and knows that those numbers are wrong. The thing is that the post he made is still not in the OP is because it clearly isn't the whole story. I guess he told him that the numbers aren't final yet or they might be completely different. We don't know...expect of this approved insider.

Question to the Insider(s): Why don't you tell the actual story instead of teasing an already heated up community?

Because they run the risk of outing themselves and compromising the people providing that information? Hardly seems worth it just to settle a few nonsense GAFfers

 

[Clear]

The reason they aren't saying much is because its silly.

They aren't going to disclose proprietary, low-level system information to satisfy technically ignorant people who are simply going to be using the numbers like trading card stats!

 

[1st Course]

That's because the sli configuration is pushing more performance. It's not wrong. You can test ram useage yourself now, by tweaking graphics settings in certain games ad watching useage change.

Also, think about what you posted. If Crisis 3 already uses 3gb at such settings, you honestly think future next gen games won't max out what they're given? Naive to think otherwise imo.

I was just commenting that just not how VRAM works, the MSI afterburner numbers doesn't mean anything. In a VRAM bottlenck your FPS will be at the absolute bottom like you can't do anything about it, even adding SLI doesn't help.

 

[Gorillaz]

The reason they aren't saying much is because its silly.

This

 

[Ateron]

I think 4.5 - 5.5 GB of ram will be more than enough for most devs to create great games, and people are losing their shit over nothing. 5GB is more than enough (for now at least).

That being said, and correct me if I´m wrong, I was under the impression that the 512MB we have now were very well received back in the day, and 3-4 years later the same devs started complaining about limitations, especialy when they tried to squeeze more than the hardware could handle - and a lot of poor ports, games with subpar resolutions and framerate, screen tearing and pop in atest to that - so what´s good today might now be in 3-4 years time.

I'm aware there's a limit for maximum effiency, as some posters have said already (5.89 GB for a 30fps game?) so I guess they will try to free up some ram from the OS in the coming years and hopefully RAM won't be a bottleneck this time.

Anyway, if these "news" prove to be false, where does that leave DF's reputation and credibility?


Couldn't find a better thread to make my first post on GAF. Let the madness continue

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The forum was faulting MS for it and praising Sony for their 8gb GDDR5 trump card. Now it seems that the ram is much closer in line between the two consoles than was thought. Sony's ram is still better but a far cry from the original 8gb that everyone was excited for. Moreover, everyone knows what MS is doing with their ram allocations and most disliked it. What is Sony doing with their 3gb OS?

This never was the argument.

The PS4 originally only had 3.5 GB of GDDR5 allocated for games, Xbox One had 5 GB of DDR3.

PS4 had a massive advantage in bandwidth; Xbox One had one in quantity.

Now the specs have been increased, PS4 still has the bandwidth advantage, and at the very least parity with Xbox One on quantity.

 

[prwxv3]

If Sony has been screwing over devs because of taking away ram they need we would have heard about it by now by outspoken devs.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

This isn't like DRM, though. It's only a major news story for the console warriors on both sides. Announcing it to be false wouldn't have close to the same effect that the DRM/Used games announcement had. Indie announcement seems more important to me. Where there's smoke, there's fire, though. DF's story may not have the numbers right, but there must be some truth to it based on what the NeoGAF insiders have said.

If they set the stage right by talking about the rumors, then shooting them down, it could have an impact.

And even if the DF number are right and we have 5.5GB for devs...so what? It's .5-1.5 less than many assumed. I don't see that as world shattering.

If Sony has been screwing over devs because of taking away ram they need we would have heard about it by now by outspoken devs.

Exactly. Instead, all we've heard from are very satisfied devs who are completely embarrassed by the reaction to this DF BS.

 

[StoopKid]

Why would anyone praise Sony for making a weaker system, especially one with even less of an advantage when it comes to multiplatform games than it had before? Developers CANNOT have been complaining about a missing 1GB of RAM. It makes no sense for Sony to make a huge deal about doubling the PS4's RAM, then turn around and only make 1GB of that actually usable. They got scared by Microsoft's 'goods and services' model and now we're paying for it with a weaker console.

 

[Hystzen]

Question to the Insider(s): Why don't you tell the actual story instead of teasing an already heated up community?

They like having a job so they not going straight out jump saying everything clear

plus it GAF where pretty much small pointless details can explode into something huge

 

[Snakeyes]

I'm hoping for a Gamescom "6 GB to developers, guys" statement that puts these fears to rest.

SCEI has been great at positively responding to gamer concerns so far...I see no reason why they wouldn't continue that sentiment.

True, a lot of the PS4's hype has been based around addressing completely baseless FUD. I wouldn't be surprised to see that trend continue.

 

[Instigator]

If Sony has been screwing over devs because of taking away ram they need we would have heard about it by now by outspoken devs.

NDA's

 

[Zephyx]

I'm hoping for a Gamescom "6 GB to developers, guys" statement that puts these fears to rest.

SCEI has been great at positively responding to gamer concerns so far...I see no reason why they wouldn't continue that sentiment.

Maybe they will mention it (like they did with the stealthy PS+ multiplayer announcement) but they wouldn't highlight is as big as people thinks it is. What they should focus on are delivering on the games. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[D4Danger]

The reason they aren't saying much is because its silly.

They aren't going to disclose proprietary, low-level system information to satisfy technically ignorant people who are simply going to be using the numbers like trading card stats!

but that's exactly what they've been doing since February.

 

[Corto]

Sony should end this, all this situation is getting ridiculous at this point.

Why delve in the insanity pit? Sony never commented on the OS reserved memory. Or the RAM memory before the official reveal, for that matter.These are numbers leaked by developers and not officially reported. The onus is on the leakers and reporters to prove those are correct or put their name on the line and stand by them. Off course as I posted before, if it turns out that the final numbers are not the ones reported by DF then they will just fallback to the "they were correct at the time and for the specific developer we talked to".

 

[Kandinsky]

Why are people acting like 4.5gb of ram is low, that is just fine for a console, wtf?.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Do we know how muhc GDDR5 memory Obama has?

 

[bronzeP]

They like having a job so they not going straight out jump saying everything clear

plus it GAF where pretty much small pointless details can explode into something huge

OK, I got that.

Still, for me it sounds like throwing fire crackers into flames.

 

[Harlock]

This is like that clock limit in early PSP life. The old trick of limit resources to expand the life of the hardware.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

NDA's

NDAs don't require them to gush over the PS4's power. They have been.

 

[prwxv3]

NDA's

Expressing content can not be blocked by NDAs as long as nothing specific is revealed . There have been multiple devs that have expressed content without breaking NDAs

 

[kinggroin]

Awesome news. That's an insane amount of very fast memory to dedicate to console game development.

There is shit on the Wii U that impresses me, I can't imagine what we're in store for vsually between this and the One.

 

[Nightengale]

but that's exactly what they've been doing since February.

You think Cerny talking broadly about system architecture is revealing low-level spec details?

 

[androvsky]

There are many things wrong with this post. Obviously much of the game data is going to be off ram, but the idea is to gave as much IN ram as possible at any given time as it's more efficient and order of magnitude faster than the hdd. It also means you can be less dependant on the HDD or disk which is another advantage.

Maybe I missed some context, but wasn't your entire argument (and the argument you were agreeing with) that any memory beyond what could be used per frame is wasted? You're saying the same thing I was here.

 

[BleachAndPepsi]

Do we know how muhc GDDR5 memory Obama has?

Don't worry I'm sure they'll alleviate fans concerns at gamescom.

If/when they do, I'm going to have a week-long boner watching all the people who cancelled their preorders scramble to preorder again.

I have some news for all of you.

While I cannot make comment on the actual numbers (and the OS / features are probably still being developed anyway) I can tell you why Sony isn't going to "end this nonsense" that is going on within this thread and potentially a few others.

You're talking about the PS4. Even though most of it is uninformed speculation, you're talking about the PS4. The more you discuss it, the bigger it becomes in the mind's eye.

By that logic, Microsoft would never have addressed the DRM issue with Xbone. Because at least we were all talking about Xbone.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Meh, hoped for some numbers. Sony loves bragging about them, but now silence?

Don't worry I'm sure they'll alleviate fans concerns at gamescom.

 

[D4Danger]

You think Cerny talking broadly about system architecture is revealing low-level spec details?

they were quick enough to respond to how their memory works just not how much developers can use. why? because people are treating it like baseball stats which is entirely their fault.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Why would anyone praise Sony for making a weaker system, especially one with even less of an advantage when it comes to multiplatform games than it had before? Developers CANNOT have been complaining about a missing 1GB of RAM. It makes no sense for Sony to make a huge deal about doubling the PS4's RAM, then turn around and only make 1GB of that actually usable. They got scared by Microsoft's 'goods and services' model and now we're paying for it with a weaker console.

You see this?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-spec-analysis-durango-vs-orbis

It....it still applies.

EDIT- The second link is when we all thought PS4 would have 4GB of RAM. :lol.

 

[xenorevlis]

I have some news for all of you.

While I cannot make comment on the actual numbers (and the OS / features are probably still being developed anyway) I can tell you why Sony isn't going to "end this nonsense" that is going on within this thread and potentially a few others.

You're talking about the PS4. Even though most of it is uninformed speculation, you're talking about the PS4. The more you discuss it, the bigger it becomes in the mind's eye.

 

[Zephyx]

That Bish ate a non Rob sanctioned breakfast food.

WhatRobWillNotEat

Still don't get it. Sorry

 

[Instigator]

Expressing content can not be blocked by NDAs . There have been multiple devs that have expressed content without breaking NDAs

Yet in the absence of Sony, no one, not even Naughty Dog confirms or denies the story in the OP. They talk about about facepalms, things being errorneous, outdated, but not anywhere near close to an actual number. Not even a very conservative number.

 

[Nightengale]

Meh, hoped for some numbers. Sony loves bragging about them, but now silence? Meh again.

8GB was the bragging point. GDDR5 was the bragging point. PC Architecture was the bragging point.

Once you dive down to details like latency, memory allocation, maturity of dev-tools and PS4 SDK... all those points become a lot less brag-worthy.

Yet in the absence of Sony, no one, not even Naughty Dog confirms or denies the story in the OP. They talk about about facepalms, things being errorneous, outdated, but not anywhere near close to an actual number. Not even a very conservative number.

You want those ND developers out-of-job or something? The moment they reveal something is the moment they break their NDA, and recieve Sony's wrath.

 

[Aquamarine]

I have some news for all of you.

While I cannot make comment on the actual numbers (and the OS / features are probably still being developed anyway) I can tell you why Sony isn't going to "end this nonsense" that is going on within this thread and potentially a few others.

You're talking about the PS4. Even though most of it is uninformed speculation, you're talking about the PS4. The more you discuss it, the bigger it becomes in the mind's eye.

Any press is good press, huh?

 

[Vestal]

Why are people acting like 4.5gb of ram is low, that is just fine for a console, wtf?.

its not. My only issue with this whole thing is the flex memory I am extremely curious about why they set that up. Without any context it makes no sense.

only two reasons I can come up with.

1. If devs want to use the flex memory some OS features cannot be used or are limited in functionality

2. (tinfoil hat) there is some architectural limitation on the amount of memory games can directly address.

 

[Kyoufu]

8GB was the bragging point. GDDR5 was the bragging point. PC Architecture was the bragging point.

Once you dive down to details like latency, memory allocation, maturity of dev-tools and PS4 SDK... all those points become a lot less brag-worthy.

I recall their dev tools being in a healthy state. Healthier than Xbox One's.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

I have some news for all of you.

While I cannot make comment on the actual numbers (and the OS / features are probably still being developed anyway) I can tell you why Sony isn't going to "end this nonsense" that is going on within this thread and potentially a few others.

You're talking about the PS4. Even though most of it is uninformed speculation, you're talking about the PS4. The more you discuss it, the bigger it becomes in the mind's eye.

That worked for Xbox one and the used game policy, Huh?

 

[xenorevlis]

Any press is good press, huh?

Not in today's world, but when the press is just a rumor and falls in line with what the competition is doing, this kind of debate simply means more people will be interested in chatting about the PS4, regardless of which side of the fence you're on (or even if you're perched on top of it)

That worked for Xbox one and the used game policy, Huh?

Sorry I don't follow. Do you mean the fact that the DRM rumor/news that came out and then was confirmed by Microsoft themselves at E3 or?

 

[SSM25]

its not. My only issue with this whole thing is the flex memory I am extremely curious about why they set that up. Without any context it makes no sense.

only two reasons I can come up with.

1. If devs want to use the flex memory some OS features cannot be used or are limited in functionality

2. (tinfoil hat) there is some architectural limitation on the amount of memory games can directly address.

Buffer between the RAM-HDD-BD ? Maybe ?

 

[Feindflug]

I recall their dev tools being in a healthy state. Healthier than Xbox One's.

Yep, Avalanche studios said it IIRC.

 

[B_Boss]

This is interesting because pre-reveal of the PS4 in 2/2013, Devs. received only 4gb to work with, which was probably a "red flag" even then. Either Sony themselves or gaming reporting outlets have flaunted the "powerful 8gb GDDR5 Unified Pool" when in reality almost half of that was never meant to go towards game development, the Devs. do not have access to all of that Memory but technically you would think this would have been obvious to any seasoned and technical thinker.

I think many saw "8gb" and never wanted anything less than at least 7gb or so. Looking forward to the PS4 in any regard. Coming from the 80's generation of gaming, I take anything more powerful than that humbly lol.

 

[prwxv3]

That worked for Xbox one and the used game policy, Huh?

This is a bit different the DRM directly effects customers so hiding that shit is bad. The memory allocation only effects devs directly so if Sony has kept devs in the dark about that then there would be a problrm

 

[Vestal]

Buffer between the RAM-HDD-BD ? Maybe ?

512 is quiet a large buffer for that, not to mention that you wouldn't want a buffer to be volatile.

 

[Nightengale]

I recall their dev tools being in a healthy state. Healthier than Xbox One's.

Being better than Xbox One doesn't mean anything. Dev-tools early in a console's life is always 'rough around the edges.' Just because it's a new, friendlier architecture doesn't magically make them super tools.

And you think Sony can say "hey our tools are better than Xbox's?" They can't.