metalslimer
Member
Nah, I cringed just about everytime he spoke. It was acted perfectly though
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Breaking Bad - Season 5 interim thread - the series concludes Summer 2013 on AMC
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Nah, I cringed just about everytime he spoke. It was acted perfectly though
Everyone seems to forget that Walt got out of the game at the end of the last episode. There's your Tony Soprano redemption moment.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Quitting doesn't redeem him.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
I'm betting Walt isn't out. He said specifically he is in the "empire business." Walt is done cooking, but his operation is still running. I Bet Meth Damon is still cooking with a some others doing the deliveries and drops. Walt has too much ego to quit.
brianjones
Member
tony soprano redemption? what
metalslimer
Member
Tony soprano was one of the most despicable characters ever by the end of that show
Edit: I lost all sympathy for tony when
Edit: I lost all sympathy for tony when
he killed Nicky
The guy I quoted said he still felt sympathy for Tony even though he did dispicable things like Walt does.
I was just trying to give an example of something "good" Walt does in Season 5 when he quits the meth business at the end... basically a reason to feel sympathy for Walt. Sorry, redemption wasn't the right word.
I was just trying to give an example of something "good" Walt does in Season 5 when he quits the meth business at the end... basically a reason to feel sympathy for Walt. Sorry, redemption wasn't the right word.
Nameless
Member
How exactly is Walt "cartoonishly evil"? That's a bit much. He's in Heisenberg mode, same as always, the only difference being it's sustained instead of merely appearing in flashes. He's been slowly becoming what originally began as a character he devised to mask his fear and lack of confidence. Gilligan no doubt wants the audience to dislike him, but there's nothing I'd consider over the top. Love to hear examples.
Discotheque
Banned
Yeah there is none, same goes for Walt
But the difference here is that the writers of sopranos gave him scenes like that coma limbo state, or running into junior in the pool. It lets us keep a slightly mixed opinion about the man even if he's done some horrible things
Walt's given nothing at this point. Hell, that one moment of vulnerability in front of his son is shot dead when he says he doesn't want to be remembered like that. Also the Heisenberg outfit/persona is mad cheesy lol
They're both great characters and actors. But Tony's the goat. He's given more depth and the performance is unmatched tbh
But both shows are given different approaches. I think Vince Gilligan is getting the message through fine. I doubt he expects much sympathy for Walt at this point
Mr. Saturn
Member
Just a quick clarification, but I believe the hat Walt wears is actually a pork pie hat rather than a fedora.
Still that jacket with that outfit is a little silly, and I do agree that was probably done on purpose. I mean the jacket, maybe, would be okay by itself to wear, but combined with that hat, and those ridiculous sunglasses?
Yeah that's a bit much.
Nameless
Member
What kind of sociopath are you that you didn't feel for Walt after hearing the Gray Matter story?
Black Mamba
Member
The one that sounds like it was his fault?
Nameless
Member
Sure, he bailed on what became a golden goose to provide for his new family.
Discotheque
Banned
Sociopath? Lmao. The gray matter thing was sad but it sounded like the first of many mistakes Walt makes due to his overwhelming pride.
He could have easily swallowed his pride and continued to work with them and he would have been a millionaire.
Do they ever elaborate why he left Gretchen? I don't remember
He could have easily swallowed his pride and continued to work with them and he would have been a millionaire.
Do they ever elaborate why he left Gretchen? I don't remember
Two that stick out to me:
When Jesse's telling him about breaking up with his girlfriend and Walt's still angry about the "legacy costs"; something along the lines of "How do you feel?", Jesse starts talking about his feelings, and Walt interrupts and says he means the money. This one isn't that big of a deal to me since he was angry, but...
When Walt's whistling right after he tells Jesse how torn up he is about the kid being shot while they were robbing the train. Walt's pretty damn good at manipulating Jesse, and I guess the argument could be made that he got careless? But he saw how torn up Jesse was about it, and it's not like he thought Jesse was gone or anything, he just straight up starts whistling and doesn't stop even when Jesse answers his phone. There's also the fact that when they're disposing of the kid's body, Walt genuinely does look like he has disgust or remorse about the whole thing, so I don't even know what to think there
I dunno. Neither of them ruin the show or break immersion for me or whatever, but they stuck out to me when I was watching it last year and they stuck out to me on my rewatch
Mr. Saturn
Member
Not in the show, but Gilligan said in an interview that Walt left after he found out Gretchen's family was rich.
I just finished watching this episode too.
Makes me laugh when people say Gunn can't act.
Wait, are we sure the money didnt make it to his granddaughter? I thought the lawyer was killed before he could flip on Mike, and I also thought that since the money had no been touched it wouldn't be taken away like it was with all the others?
Saul said something about all of Mike's money being taken twice, it's definitely gone
Damn. That makes me sad..
I was hoping Mike could die knowing his granddaughter would have a good life..
brianjones
Member
"Little rich girl, just adding to your millions"
The only time that Walt could ever really get sympathy, is when he told himself that he was doing what he was doing for his family. That he knew he was going to die anyways, so he would be willing to sell his soul to make sure they were provided for when he could no longer do so. That said, even from the beginning it was pretty clear that Walt wasn't just doing this BECAUSE of his family, and that he was getting a thrill/enjoyment out of breaking the rules and kicking back at a world that shit on him even though he always played by the rules. So any sort of sympathy you might have had, should have been weary.
As the show progressed, it was also pretty clear that Walt's intentions were always for himself (or at least, they were the more central motivator). And at a certain point it was his only motivator. Yeah, Walt got a raw deal in life. He didn't marry the love of his life. His first and only son was born handicapped. He had the highest degree in his field, and yet was teaching at a highschool. He was a man with a lot of ambitions, who ended up settling for things that weren't what he expected out of life -- or matched with his talents.
Can you feel sympathetic to that? Sure. But it's not so black and white. It's not as if we can say anyone is to blame for Walt's life playing out the way that it did. We don't know enough about the man and the decision's he's made. Although what we do know of him, it seems he was to blame for selling his stock and leaving the love of his life. That he was a man of pride.
Basically, while I understand people can feel sympathy for him, I don't think it's as much as of a complex thing as the story has played out. I think some fans just can't let go of the idea of a protagonist being so awful. They can't get past the idea of the main character of a story being someone you should feel no sympathy for.
PezDispenser
Banned
Coming off a rewatch I have to say I'm pretty sure that Mike's granddaughter DID end up getting the money. At the first scene with the lawyer and the safety deposit boxes, you can see him completely fill her (biggest) box with cash, and leave a note for her, implying that her drop is complete. Right after that, in the car, the lawyer says "she's gonna need another box if you decide to leave one more dollar to her." Mike says, "and the other guys are ok getting theirs in continuing increments?" and the lawyer confirms that they understand.
On the next drop, when he gets caught, he doesn't touch her box, so they might have never even found out about it.
On the next drop, when he gets caught, he doesn't touch her box, so they might have never even found out about it.
killertofu
Member
That's the episode I turn to when people say that they hate Skyler. I found her character a tad bit annoying (Though a little justified) but how can people still hate her after that?
metalslimer
Member
What the hell. Grey matter was all Walt's fault because of his ego. If anyone is the sociopath it's walt
Skyler telling walt she's waiting for the cancer was amazing
Skyler telling walt she's waiting for the cancer was amazing
Discotheque
Banned
Awesome post brah. Particularly this part.
@pezdispenser: warrants probably took care of the girl's safety deposit box. That or the lawyer talked. He's got no incentive to stay quiet anymore
That's not what happened. He didn't bail to provide for his family. He randomly left Gretchen while visiting her family (Think the popular theory is that they were very well off and he felt small because he's overly proud and status-obsessed (edit: yeah I thought I remembered a VG interview with that in it too, but I couldn't find it)). He bailed out of weakness and then kept his distance because of petty jealousy when it was all his fault.
Black Mamba
Member
eh, that's not how it seemed to happen at all. I don't even know if he was with Skyler when that happened and don't think he was.
Do Walt defenders watch a different show week to week? I don't understand how anyone can sympathize with this man post poisoning Brock.
Nope. She got nothing, zero, nada. Once the DEA caught Dan making those deposits they froze the same. It happened to Mike twice, the first was when they discover Gus's accounts offshore.
He met Skyler when he was working at Los Alamos, so yeah, the entirety of the Gray Matter thing happened before he met Skyler. It was just Walt being his lovable, selfish old self.
EDIT: And yeah, Mike's granddaughter definitely did not get any money.
Walt/Heisenberg is a ruthless methlord, a magnificent bastard.
Mr. Saturn
Member
Sure, but as a note a story or main character can be non-complex, or straightforward and still be good.
I agree that Walt wasn't very sympathetic in season 5a but I think that the person he becomes is who he's always been, its just that at the beginning, he kept it bottled up, because of his lack of success in life.
I don't agree that Walt was cartoonish in season 5a, but then again what we saw from season 5 was only the first half, the show might deliver some sort of sympathetic, or at least heartfelt moment for Walt in the second half.
The reason I think that might happen is because I remember reading an interview with Gilligan where he said Walt's most useful ability is his ability to lie to himself, and he says that in the last eight episodes where he said
SPOILERS RELATING TO WALT'S CHARACTERIZATION AND TONE FOR LAST SEASON; NOT RELATED TO ANY EPISODE
that in the last eight episodes, the show discusses what happens to Walt when the scales fall off of his eyes, and his lies stop gaining traction. Hell I think Gilligan actually said he was surprised by Walt in the last eight episodes, so that'll be interesting to see.
I'd say walt was cartoonish in 5a, but only because he intentionally presented himself that way. Usually you say "cartoonish" to kinda say that a character/performance wasn't the right energy for the show, here he was cartoonish because he put on the face of the supervillain kingpin and...it actually worked. it's not a cartoonish characterization, just a character pulling off a cartoonish facade of a personality for a while.
Has this been posted? Not spoilers, just silliness
http://i.imgur.com/dvVVwhS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dvVVwhS.jpg
RoninChaos
Member
Here I was hating her guts because she cheated on her husband. My wife feels the same way. Or about how she's used his kids against him in the past. Who knew that was all misogynistic?
This show feels like the Sopranos in it's last seasons. They're having the protaganist do enough awful shit that you end up hating him and hoping for his downfall. While Tony and Walt are not similar at all, their trajectory towards continuing on a dark path that has them do unforgivable shit is almost exactly the same.
Nameless
Member
I thought this was masterful writing. Walt feigns concern for Jesse's relationship earlier in the season when all he was doing was manipulating him into breaking it off. Walt blowing off the girl talk should scream this to Jesse but he glosses right over it and ultimately breaks up with her anyway.
With the whistling thing , he had resealed the room, put his mask on , and gotten back to work so I'm not sure he even heard Jesse's phone ring. Besides, this is text book Walt & Jesse. Jesse feels bad about the collateral damage of their actions, cries about it, while Walt shrugs it off with logic. Happened with the plane crash, Gale, Brock, even Jesse almost shooting him. The kid was an unfortunate accident. Walt, compared to the other characters on the show has never been one to dwell in remorse.
Mr. Saturn
Member
That's an interesting way of looking at it. I guess maybe I'm thinking of cartoonish as being an inherently negative term, but maybe it worked for this most reason season, like you said.
EightBitNate
Member
I'm the one who fucks Ted
My man, go get a season or three. It's worth it.
Watched Hazard Pay. Had forgotten how awesome the cook scene was, so sweet. And Walt telling Marie about the affair, manipulating her so perfectly: so disgusting. Same with him working Jesse over about Andrea. Fucking hate him, and love to watch him.
1) you can't counter an accusation of misogyny with "I know a girl who thinks that though!" that is a very empty argument that demonstrates a drastic lack of knowledge on the subject Google "internalized sexism"
2) she cheated on her husband while they were separated and she had filed for divorce. and after he had begun cooking meth, faked a fugue state, lied about his entire life for months and months in numerous ways, worried her with medical payments, emotionally tortured her basically and not made any effort to understand how much stress he was putting her under... not that you can really "get even" for that stuff because everything walt had done up to that point was already pretty gross, but I don't think she was that unreasonable
1) you can't counter an accusation of misogyny with "I know a girl who thinks that though!" that is a very empty argument that demonstrates a drastic lack of knowledge on the subject Google "internalized sexism"
2) she cheated on her husband while they were separated and she had filed for divorce. and after he had begun cooking meth, faked a fugue state, lied about his entire life for months and months in numerous ways, worried her with medical payments, emotionally tortured her basically and not made any effort to understand how much stress he was putting her under... not that you can really "get even" for that stuff because everything walt had done up to that point was already pretty gross, but I don't think she was that unreasonable
It is if you consider that cheating LOL
Angry Fork
Member
So do you guys think the first episode will be entirely flash forward or will they start right off from Hank on the toilet? Do you think they'll show him going back to the barbecue and staring at Walt once he knows.
And does anyone have a link to the gaf reaction to that episode.
And does anyone have a link to the gaf reaction to that episode.
Nah. They might have a flash forward intro (like the first episode of Season 5), but the rest will take place after Hank gets off the toilet. Either the second to last episode, or the series finale will be the full flash forward (because it will be the present by that time). Everything prior to that episode will be the current present and will lead up to Walt being exiled.
RoninChaos
Member
So my wife, who is a feminist, is a misogynist? lol Jesus fucking Christ.
Sorry my reasons don't add up with yours but god fucking damn, just because I don't like a character or her actions doesn't mean I'm a misogynist. Notice I didn't say that I thought Walt was correct. I assume that this argument of misogyny is predicated on people liking Walt and hating Skyler. I think Walt is a monster, but just because he's a monster doesn't mean that Skyler is some amazing character that was brought down by New Mexico's Scarface Jr. She's fucking annoying and irrational. She cheated on Walt, she's used his children against him, and I think she's probably the poorest written character out of the entire show besides her sister. But I guess cause I don't like her I'm a misogynist. Good to know.
Tore through this entire half season today. What an amazing ride. It's really interesting to see Walt's character unfold. You see so many moments and think "this is your out..." then you realize he kind of doesn't want out. Until the end anyway.
Narratively I'm starting to get annoyed by his character though. He's becoming a monster and it's hard to watch. Very entertaining but hard to watch. Every decision is just brutal.
I didn't quite understand the logistics of being "out" though. How do you just get out? He seemed to have two deals going with two people that depended on him to provide product. You can't really leave this world so easily. Seemed very strange to me. Unless he has his own definition of "out". Anyways. Amazing ending (I've been waiting for that moment) can't wait to see how this ends. Going to be annoying watching week to week though. I haven't done that since LOST.
Narratively I'm starting to get annoyed by his character though. He's becoming a monster and it's hard to watch. Very entertaining but hard to watch. Every decision is just brutal.
I didn't quite understand the logistics of being "out" though. How do you just get out? He seemed to have two deals going with two people that depended on him to provide product. You can't really leave this world so easily. Seemed very strange to me. Unless he has his own definition of "out". Anyways. Amazing ending (I've been waiting for that moment) can't wait to see how this ends. Going to be annoying watching week to week though. I haven't done that since LOST.
People are hilarious who hate on Skyler. It's my favorite thing about watching these shows. "Oh I hate her she's always getting in Walt's way." Well, no fucking shit, Walt cooks meth. Fucking her boss was one of the few ways she felt she could exercise power over him. Good for her!
I can't wait til Walt's empire is destroyed and he finishes ruining everything and everyone who even remotely had affection for him.
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