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[gruenel]

Funny how Gies instantly jumped in into the convo.

I'm getting too old for this shit.

 

[Principate]

I was being sarcastic yes.....

Ms is under pressure due to leaks suggesting yield issues affecting production. Think about it for a while.

So why would they waste those on a consumer convention, if it was true it'd be better if they used dev kits if it wasn't true they could still have used dev kits and not many would care, the average consumer doesn't care what the games are being played on in this conference as shown by this thread so I doubt it was there main reason for using it.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Sony hasn't got a credible verified leak suggesting production issues and isn't slashing launch territories pretending they have only just realised that they have to localise the product.

And we have a credible leak for production issues for Microsoft?

I'm sorry, but I'll take a confirmed Microsoft employees statement over anyone else.

 

[chadskin]

Press get to use debug units because Press need x99 lives to finish game by review deadline, EmptySpace says.

Press gets them for previews of unfinished games. Early alpha/beta code is burned onto a normal retail DVD-R/Blu-ray-R which wouldn't be playable on a retail console.

 

[benny_a]

So they are not the same hardware. They are not the same motherboard. They are different.

You said it's a PC configured to run PS4 games.

So a PC configured to run PS4 games is a PS4 with more memory, given that you can't buy a PC that has the architecture of a PS4, outside of a PS4 and a PS4 devkit.

Please expand on "PC configured to run PS4 games", be as in-depth technically as you can. Don't worry about me, I'll look up anything up that I don't understand.

 

[cyberheater]

So when does Sony and Microsoft start producing these things in the factory? It seems like Microsoft may have already started? Would this indicate they have more supply than Sony at launch?

I don't know but Sony will have to produce close to 2 million PS4's to meet pre-orders, have some stock on shelves and have enough left over to gift to gamestop managers.

 

[kitch9]

So when does Sony and Microsoft start producing these things in the factory? It seems like Microsoft may have already started? Would this indicate they have more supply than Sony at launch?

Facepalm.

Dude, seriously.

 

[Flatline]

So both are using dev-kits to show their games...

- Microsoft

Reaction: Oh my god they are having production issues, and the hardware was of a much higher specification. They lied!

- Sony

Reaction: Everything will be fine

They're having production issues because a very trustworthy insider said it and it was confirmed by them after they reduced the launch countries.

 

[BFIB]

IGN at TGS when we see PS4 games running on PS4 consoles: "Concerned about the size of the PS4 and heating issues."

 

[lvlzero]

This just in everybody, the Xbox one and ps4 are running on modified PC hardware!

 

[Megasoum]

Ok here's a quick crash course on how game developpement actually works.

We're seeing two different things right now...

That NFS picture is not what he's talking about in the OP's tweet. They are clearly running the PC version of the game with a PS4 controller.

What the OP is talking about is PS4 games running on a devkit instead of a "retail" console.

First of all this is complete bullshit. They are both running games on devkits. The XB1 devkits happens to look exactly like the retail console so the PR guys can say that it's a retail console but it's actually a devkit. The PS4 devkits look different so it's easier to spot. Three months before the console is released is WAYYY too early to run anything on a retail kit.

Second, you guys need to understand what a devkit actually is. The devkits that are in use right now (I'm not talking about the very early devkits but what's in use right now) are pretty much using the same final hardware that will be in the retail kits but with extra memory allocated to debug tools and the ability to run unsigned code.

There's nothing wrong or devious from running games on a devkit. That's how it always been. What did you think the 360/PS3 games were running on at E3 for the last 6 years? They were not retail consoles either, they were devkits since nobody has signed code that can run on a retail console until the game goes through submission...which happens 2-3 weeks before the game is released.

All those tweets and articles are just click bait to create controversy. It's a non story and people really need to move on.

 

[cyberheater]

You said it's a PC configured to run PS4 games.

So a PC configured to run PS4 games is a PS4 with more memory, given that you can't buy a PC that has the architecture of a PS4, outside of a PS4 and a PS4 devkit.

It's still not a PS4 which is what the IGN have stated.

 

[pr0cs]

And launch 360s melted I fail to see how that effects Xbox one or ps4.

It's worthwhile to mention that both last gen systems had serious issues, and not showing something running in the actual case retail kits will be using is surprising only 3 months out.

 

[fi3rypho3nix]

And we have a credible leak for production issues for Microsoft?

I'm sorry, but I'll take a confirmed Microsoft employees statement over anyone else.

I would not say I trust MS a whole, but Penello seems legit. coboat does not mean crap to me personally.

 

[Borman]

Its running on a development kit, not an alpha kit which would be a PC. That isn't unusual. Yes, form factor is an issue, but I believe the final unit already went through the FCC. PS3 Tools (although Tests were available) in the final form factor didn't start shipping until late either. People are grasping at straws once again.

This is a PS3 development tool that many developers used until after launch

Sony always seems to be last minute in getting final form factor out to developers as it simply isn't necessary.

 

[Nightengale]

So when does Sony and Microsoft start producing these things in the factory? It seems like Microsoft may have already started? Would this indicate they have more supply than Sony at launch?

No, based on what Adam Boyes said on Giantbomb, there's already a few actual PS4s fresh off the line at E3. Though mass-production probably doesn't start until later.

And besides, the stupidity of this whole news is the assumption that just because MS showed their stuff earlier, that means Sony is somehow behind.

Newsflash: Sony & MS are two different companies, two different marketing departments, two different approaches to everything they do.

 

[velociraptor]

Press gets them for previews of unfinished games. Early alpha/beta code is burned onto a normal retail DVD-R/Blu-ray-R which wouldn't be playable on a retail console.

Insomniac said they put their games on a USB and hence play them on devkits. This was well after the PS3 was released, during Resistance 2 in E3.

You will never see developers using retail consoles to showcase their games. It's too impractical.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

But IGN is full of Xbox fan boys aren't they? Well that's I feel when I read some of their stories.

A mix of both but logical conversation cannot be had there. I tried after getting accepted on here and I do t miss it. IGN only reports controversial news but never something that is meaningful. Plus the reports are never fair.. Most the time they are flame baits and people fall for it all the time.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

They're having production issues because a very trustworthy insider said it and it was confirmed by them after they reduced the launch countries.

And we have a Microsoft employee stating the exact opposite. Who you believe is your choice.

 

[VicDaMoan03]

Facepalm.

Dude, seriously.

Yep, seriously.

 

[WetPotatoBread]

Just as a side note, it is also possible that the XB1's were devkits:

Retail XB1:

XB1 devkit given to people for promotion purposes:

There is an additional USB-host port on the far right for debugging purposes indicating that it is a devkit. And it's no big deal since the actual hardware is the same. Devkits just add more interfaces (and often more memory for debugging, but that has no effect on game performance). Using a devkit does not imply problems, it's just what devs are using; hence the term "devkit".

.

 

[Takuan]

This just in everybody, the Xbox one and ps4 are running on modified dated PC hardware!

Corrected for truthiness.

 

[Impeccable]

I would not say I trust MS a whole, but Penello seems legit. coboat does not mean crap to me personally.

You didn't even need to state that, we know.

 

[Flatline]

And we have a credible leak for production issues for Microsoft?

I'm sorry, but I'll take a confirmed Microsoft employees statement over anyone else.

You mean you'll take MS's PR over anyone else, right?

 

[benny_a]

It's still not a PS4 which is what the IGN have stated.

But you stated something else. I want to have an expansion of what you stated.

This is me asking for clarification of what you meant, when you made the post you made.

 

[calder]

I read the tweets and, in shock, immediately cast about for my fainting couch, but it's being re-upholstered so I just sat myself in the recliner and had the maid fan me until I recovered.


Really, that concerned about the case? Ok I guess.

One of the more annoying things in console wars is the expectations for both companies to somehow have the same approach doing stuff.

Why doesn't Sony have any official GAF-ers dropping infodumps like Albert?
Why doesn't Sony do random info-releases and market more of the consoles?
Why is Sony focusing so much on indies unlike MUH AAA MS?
MS has already announced so many AAA-games, why are Sony still holding back the game announcements from ND, SSM and MM?
Why doesn't Sony also do a pack-in like FIFA?
Why is Sony's PS4 unboxing? MS already did it!

Yes, this.

 

[Jezbollah]

So both are using dev-kits to show their games...

- Microsoft

Reaction: Oh my god they are having production issues, and the hardware was of a much higher specification. They lied!

- Sony

Reaction: Everything will be fine

To be fair, one of these companies' new console launch process and policies have been a complete and utter mess. The other has been relatively relatively smooth.

Your reactions may be based upon a lot of people's experience in both makers' recent history.

 

[Mit-]

People complained about Microsoft because they were running demos on PCs with Nvidia hardware in them, that couldn't have possibly mirrored the specs of the Xbox One.

Now they're running demos on dev kits, cool.

Sony is running demos on dev kits too.

Unfortunately PS4 dev kits aren't small and do not share the same form factor as the retail PS4, you know, like TONS of dev kits in the past.

This guy is seemingly worried that because they haven't remodeled their dev kit, they perhaps cannot fit the hardware into the retail unit?

Maybe they just don't want to remodel the dev kit?

 

[TheMink]

So they are not the same hardware. They are not the same motherboard. They are different.

The OP is stating that IGN didn't spot any actual PS4's running games. If they using devkit then IGN is correct.

You are really trying to make some kind of point here... Are you saying that we should be concerned? Or are you getting into a semantics argument about what is and isn't the "same?"

 

[madmackem]

I think Lowe and some are missing that pic shown, xboxone dev kits LOOK like xboxone retail units, no doubt that's what games com games were running on, ps4 dev kits don't look like ps4 retail units which is the norm.

 

[kitch9]

So why would they waste those on a consumer convention, if it was true it'd be better if they used dev kits if it wasn't true they could still have used dev kits and not many would care, the average consumer doesn't care what the games are being played on in this conference as shown by this thread so I doubt it was there main reason for using it.

I know it's radical.

Some manufacturers actually test stuff before they just make millions and stuff them in a box. In order to test stuff you need to make some.

 

[fi3rypho3nix]

You didn't even need to state that, we know.

And how is that?

 

[lvlzero]

Corrected for truthiness.

Oh im sorry I didn't know kaveri function based amd processors were already out.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Dumb thing to be worried about. He just wants followers.

 

[Dyno]

Knowledge Sprinkles

Thanks man!

 

[Skeff]

Ok here's a quick crash course on how game developpement actually works.

We're seeing two different things right now...

That NFS picture is not what he's talking about in the OP's tweet. They are clearly running the PC version of the game with a PS4 controller.

What the OP is talking about is PS4 games running on a devkit instead of a "retail" console.

First of all this is complete bullshit. They are both running games on devkits. The XB1 devkits happens to look exactly like the retail console so the PR guys can say that it's a retail console but it's actually a devkit. The PS4 devkits look different so it's easier to spot. Three months before the console is released is WAYYY too early to run anything on a retail kit.

Second, you guys need to understand what a devkit actually is. The devkits that are in use right now (I'm not talking about the very early devkits but what's in use right now) are pretty much using the same final hardware that will be in the retail kits but with extra memory allocated to debug tools and the ability to run unsigned code.

There's nothing wrong or devious from running games on a devkit. That's how it always been. What did you think the 360/PS3 games were running on at E3 for the last 6 years? They were not retail consoles either, they were devkits since nobody has signed code that can run on a retail console until the game goes through submission...which happens 2-3 weeks before the game is released.

All those tweets and articles are just click bait to create controversy. It's a non story and people really need to move on.

Great Post, shame it's going to get lost in all of the shit.

 

[phosphor112]

I'm now at this point where I don't even know who is having a laugh and who actually didn't read the even all the posts on twitter that I quoted.

XB1 devkits look like XB1 retail hw. (Source: My interpretation of what Albert Penello means when he says "they are the same.")
PS4 devkits don't look like PS4 retail hw. (Source: leaked images and FCC filing)

According to Scott Lowe, games were shown on PS4 devkits.

So in conclusion: It's XB1 (devkit or retail, how do you determine this) vs. PS4 (devkit)?

Penello saying the retail is the same as the devkit is bullshit. Here is why.

Please elaborate on the distinction. According to my understanding a PS4 devkit is a PS4 in a different case with a different firmware and more memory to fit profiling and other debugging tools.

Coming from your quote.

It doesn't have to be a different case. A lot of the time, final dev kits look almost exactly like the retail. Early dev kits often look different though, because they don't have finalized hardware and things are often less compact.

EDIT: Several people beat me to it. Lol.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

You mean you'll take MS's PR over anyone else, right?

Oh please.

This is exactly the problem. Anything anyone from Microsoft claims is immediately shot down and ripped apart without any substance.

 

[LukasTaves]

Just as a side note, it is also possible that the XB1's were devkits:

Retail XB1:

XB1 devkit given to people for promotion purposes:

There is an additional USB-host port on the far right for debugging purposes indicating that it is a devkit. And it's no big deal since the actual hardware is the same. Devkits just add more interfaces (and often more memory for debugging, but that has no effect on game performance). Using a devkit does not imply problems, it's just what devs are using; hence the term "devkit".

That usb port if for kernel debugging, and is mostly used internally by Ms devs. Almost all of 3rd party devkits don't have that extra port, same as retail units, and debugging is done through network.

 

[ymmv]

No it's not. One is a PC devkit configured to run PS4 code. The other is a custom manufactured part which is a PS4. They are not the same hardware.

There are various devkits. In the first phase a devkit is a PC specced to what the console should be ultimately able to do, in the final phase it will contain the actual console hardware but with expanded specs: more RAM, more IO ports, debugging options, etc.

 

[BloodMoney]

It's because he looks like a pretentious know it all douche bag. But then you read his articles or listen to his podcast and you realize he really is a pretentious know it all douche bag.

Indeed good sir, indeed.

 

[demosthenes]

Hey look, another game journo that doesn't have a clue.

He has a clue on getting hits.

 

[Borman]

Just to follow up my previous post, PS1 developers used things like this, which is PS1 hardware on PC cards :

And PS2 developers this :

 

[cyberheater]

You are really trying to make some kind of point here... Are you saying that we should be concerned? Or are you getting into a semantics argument about what is and isn't the "same?"

No. There is no reason to be concerned. There has not been a single whiff or hint that Sony are having any supply issues whatsoever.

I'd hate to work at the factories where they are going to be building these things. They will be working flat out 24/7 to reach the huge launch numbers required.

 

[CambriaRising]

Ok here's a quick crash course on how game developpement actually works.

We're seeing two different things right now...

That NFS picture is not what he's talking about in the OP's tweet. They are clearly running the PC version of the game with a PS4 controller.

What the OP is talking about is PS4 games running on a devkit instead of a "retail" console.

First of all this is complete bullshit. They are both running games on devkits. The XB1 devkits happens to look exactly like the retail console so the PR guys can say that it's a retail console but it's actually a devkit. The PS4 devkits look different so it's easier to spot. Three months before the console is released is WAYYY too early to run anything on a retail kit.

Second, you guys need to understand what a devkit actually is. The devkits that are in use right now (I'm not talking about the very early devkits but what's in use right now) are pretty much using the same final hardware that will be in the retail kits but with extra memory allocated to debug tools and the ability to run unsigned code.

There's nothing wrong or devious from running games on a devkit. That's how it always been. What did you think the 360/PS3 games were running on at E3 for the last 6 years? They were not retail consoles either, they were devkits since nobody has signed code that can run on a retail console until the game goes through submission...which happens 2-3 weeks before the game is released.

All those tweets and articles are just click bait to create controversy. It's a non story and people really need to move on.

I was just about to type this up. Thank you for saving me the time.

 

[Nightengale]

It's worthwhile to mention that both last gen systems had serious issues, and not showing something running in the actual case retail kits will be using is surprising only 3 months out.

As someone said earlier in this thread.

For PS2, PS3 and PSP, Sony had used dev-kits to showcase their games even 2/3 months before launch. The actual retail devices only appeared a month before launch.

So why the heck is this news? This is normal procedure for Sony.

Just because MS's procedure is 3 months before launch doesn't mean Sony need to do the same thing.

 

[QaaQer]

"I'm not saying the PS4 is going to overheat. I'm just asking."

too good. lol (literally).

 

[pharmboy044]

When in the launch cycle are we supposed to see games on retail hardware? We're still approximately 10 weeks from launch.

 

[BloodMoney]

Dumb thing to be worried about. He just wants Xbox followers.

Fixed

 

[benny_a]

Penello saying the retail is the same as the devkit is bullshit. Here is why.

I've said in an earlier post that my understanding of that quote is that the casing looks extremely similar.

The posts by ElTorro seem to confirm that, with the only obvious difference being an additional port at the back side.

Based on this, I wonder how Scott Lowe determines if a demo was done on a a retail unit Xbox One. Does he check the back of the box after every demo he gets?