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[Penguins&PolarBears]

You really believe these consoles will outsell gta5? Holy cow.

The console is the top selling video game item at BB and its game and accessories are dominating the top selling items. GTA is more widely available and will sell elsewhere all over the globe. Stop trying to twist my words and change what I'm saying. The point is simply that Xbox One seems to be doing extremely well, period.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Cognitive dissonance.

 

[Derrick01]

We're you around then? You must not have been because we collectively shat on the PS3 for its first couple years.

No, he was on N4G trolling the absolute shit out of Sony/PS3.

Yeah I may not have been here when that was revealed a couple months ago but I saw. I see everything

 

[Revven]

The console is the top selling video game item at BB and its game and accessories are dominating the top selling items. GTA is more widely available and will sell elsewhere. Stop trying to twist my words and change what I'm saying. The point is that Xbox One is doing extremely well.

This is like me pulling up Amazon and throwing out there that the Xbox One isn't doing as well as the PS4 therefore the Xbox One is destined to do poorly or is doing poorly.

 

[Vizzeh]

You're kidding yourself if you think Sony is not "too corporate". The reason the PS4 is so appealing to all of us is because Sony had a good 2-3 years of struggling to get traction with the PS3. They learned from their mistakes and moved on. Its not like Sony said "Screw the money, let's make this console for the gamers", but more "let's focus improvements from gamer feedback to increase revenue". Which is similar to what Microsoft is doing.

I also don't understand the analogy of Microsoft "robbing from you and you catching them". They didn't underhandedly bring out these policies only to be "caught". They publicly announced them. Sure, their explanations of how these policies worked were terrible. A better analogy is your friend saying to you "I'm taking your microwave" with no proper explanation, then you flip out on them, so they say "Ok, fine, forget it".

Everything Microsoft seemed to be offering was behind a paywall, They seemed to try to sell many policies that offered allot more benefit to them than it did to the consumer.

My idea behind my analogy is that, I would rather give a company money on the basis of a simple message they are trying to send out (sony) and not one that changes direction based on pre-orders etc, that make no mistake if the internet wasnt around like it is today for its backlash, all their policies would still exist.

Both MS and Sony are entertainment corporations who have gaming divisions that make good and bad choices. It just seems in the haste to hate all things MS, we chose to forget/forgive/it never happened things Sony did. Was Sony gamer centric when they told you to get a second job to afford the system? Was that 699 price tag gamer centric? Was PSN's lackluster performance and hacking issues gamer centric?

No, they happened to be growing pains and lessons learned for doing bad business. Same as MS is doing right now. It sounds better to simply say you don't find the Xbox One a good system with its features and games than to complain that MS is evil, everything they say is wrong, every spokesperson is a PR liar, nothing about their specs is true, all good articals about the system are moneyhats, and Sony loves us like our grandmas. Companies/Corporations are not nice or sweet. They fight for our money, and have to produce a product we want to buy. If they can screw us over, they will. No exceptions. If many of MS's most vocal detractors judged Sony on the basis of things it did and tried to do the way they do MS, no way you would buy a Sony system ever again. But if the company that screwed up fixes things and you find you like the fixes and the product, you'll buy it. I don't have to purchase anything I don't want too, nor do I expect these companies to be anything more than what the evidence shows they have done or tried to do. I want them to fight for my money, and if that means they have to change a bad practice, do it. That in my opinion is a good thing. Far better than to pridefully refuse to change a overprices system and just expect people to buy it simply because of the name the way Sony did with the PS3 than to look at feedback and the numbers and change months before release like MS did.

I don't think you can use the price tag of the PS3 as an example of non-gamer scenetric, or evil, its not like they were trying to obtain massive profits it was down to the fact that their costs where so high, at 699, compare that to a modern cell phone, its not that far away, its not ideal and they made an investment that needed paying for as the cell was an expensive chip to produce/R+D.

The amount of 1st party developers owned are clear, they are about games and investing in that. Compare that to MS and its a pisstake - I for one wish they would open more instead of buying exclusives to better promote their system.
The second job quote, was a ridiculous, I would put more pressure on the spokesman though, im sure he got a nice meeting with the execs. As for the hacking, it happens, they didn't intentionally try to screw anyone.
The difference between both companies is intent. You can draw reasonably good arguments from past policies or money grabbing attempts to see who was trying to set up a licence, or a shadow tax on most things you do.

From what I have seen from sony they have set a very reasonable price for better hardware (screw kinect ) Have a pay wall for PsPlus and charge for games. Simple, thats always been the message.

-ps I could also go into the whole transister/fluffy cloud and random mouth farts that MS sometimes say with their tech stuff aswell but I dont want to come accross as overly negative. I personally would like X1 to do well for competition... if they got rid of kinect, or atleast allowed it to be switched off!! (would love that) plus show some gaming appetite by opening more studios, I would be all over it, at the minute most their exclusives seem like timed and could be on the more powerful alternative eventually anyway.

 

[jaaz]

 

[SwiftDeath]

I'm responding to this because it is a well thought out and sensible post.

Look, I have no skin in the game and I have been gaming for a really long time. With that said, I'm buying all consoles. Call me crazy, but um a gamer.

Now, the problem with expecting an apology from microsoft, and why I feel it is petty, is because there was nothing they did that was anti-consumer. "Anti-consumer" gets tossed around a lot lately and the reality is: Microsoft has been open and transparent about their consoles features from the get-go. People woukdnt be ranting if they had nothing to rant about.

A second reality: no one ever forced anyone to buy the damn thing. In fact, people are Pissed about a product that just went into manufacturing. People should really give this a thought. The product MS IS releasing is based off the feedback from consumer.

Yet, they can do no right. Alternatively, they could have kept everything the same and reversed nothing. Still, reversals are not good enough, right? Drop the price...drop the Kinect...etc

People here are acting like they are victims here. Like they have no choice. I keep reading mockery over "consumer choice".

It's really simple, if people don't like a product, no one ever forces their hand to make a purchase. That IS the consumer choice. We live in a capitalist society. A company need not apologize for a product that has yet to be manufactured and delivered to a customer. This is absolutely mind boggling to me. I do not recall Sony ever apologizing for their mishaps, Nd believe me there were mishaps (my identity and credit card information being exposed for one). Apologies are not going to make or break the next 8 years in gaming. the cconsumers choice will.

Anti consumer infers that consumers did not have the material information needed to make an informed decision. Somehow, many here like to insert their own definition.

Edit: I actually do remember the extended bow by Sony execs for the psn troubles, but false equivalency here as the Xbox one had yet to be released

The inherent problem with VG consoles though is the exclusive games argument

I want the next Halo

As such my only option is an Xbox One

Therefore if the policies around the xbox one go against my own personal interests, beliefs, principles, rights etc. I don't think it's wrong to complain about it

And before it releases is the right time for sure as they might actually have time to change it

Same thing would hold true for Sony if they followed through on some asinine DRM policy

 

[Wickerbasket]

The console is the top selling video game item at BB and its game and accessories are dominating the top selling items. GTA is more widely available and will sell elsewhere all over the globe. Stop trying to twist my words and change what I'm saying. The point is simply that Xbox One seems to be doing extremely well, period.

Technically the PS4 is the top selling video game item at BB, since it managed to sell out.

Who knows now many units it takes to get to the top selling list though, when it's still not sold out.

 

[flyinpiranha]

I don't think you understand what that word means. Bias means that we would be absolving Sony of any recent negative news, policies, or statements. The last "negative" thing Sony did was declare multiplayer would be pay-walled, with the reasoning to match the robust online gaming experience offered on competing platforms (dedicated servers). Even that piece of news was met with a fair share of hostility. That was months ago. Since then, Sony has been almost completely free of missteps. So much so that people are actually beginning to get suspicious, and waiting for the day Sony drops bad news. But there simply is no bad news to drop.

There is no Sony "bias". MS just gives a lot more opportunities to heckle and jeer at. If you can't understand the difference, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

EDIT: I hope people aren't honestly arguing for some perverse "False Equivalence" to be enforced here on GAF. This ain't CNN.

Dang, great post and great points. I totally agree with the suspicious part .. first the console specs, then the games, not much behind a paywall that I can see, then they even have a rumored VR system ... it honestly couldn't get any better (oh wait, it can, they seemed to have improved all the issues I had with the DS4).

I have changed my tune from "this place is full of Sony Ponies" to more of an acceptance that MS just fucked up enough and continues to be speaking to somebody that didn't ask any of the questions they are answering.

Sony is doing everything right IMO. MS has made some huge missteps but none that I don't think can be recovered from, I mean, I'm putting all my chips behind a company that told me to get another job and that I'd buy it even if there weren't any games just a few years ago.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

This is like me pulling up Amazon and throwing out there that the Xbox One isn't doing as well as the PS4 therefore the Xbox One is destined to do poorly or is doing poorly.

Again wasn't doing a comparison of PS4 vs. X1, is it possible for people to think outside of those boundaries? X1 and PS4 both are in the top 10 best selling items on Amazon for the year so using it as proof that either one is doing poorly is wrong.

Why is it everyone attacking my comment brings up PS4? I didn't mention PS4 at all or compare X1 to PS4. Xbox One doing well or not is not directly tied to PS4. Both can fail or both can be successful. This is not a zero sum game.

Who knows how many units it takes to get to the top selling list though, when it's still not sold out.

I don't know how many units, but its more units than whatever GTA is selling less than a week before release, so that has to be a good sign.

P.S. The object is to stay at the top without selling out. If MS wants to do well they need to stay at top without running out of supplies. You want to maintain both high demand and high supply.

 

[beast786]

The current plan where anyone who plays on a system with a gold account associated with it also gets the benefits of a paid membership is still really good. Even if you're logged in at a friends' house and you have gold and they don't, they get to play online with you on XB1. Sony hasn't even offered that after switching to paid PSN for online play. Sony didn't even work out roaming accounts for the PS3, so there was no way to bring your profile to a friends' place.

Are you comparing XB1 to PS3? In PS4 if one person has PS+ than anyone on that PS can take advantage of it. Also , you can forever and even now have your PSn profile on your friend PSN. I am not sure where you getting this Info?

Most of the services you're talking about only involved contradictory information if you were basing your info on unverifiable (positive or negative) outside rumors. The descriptions were either clear as stated or not fully described, partly because they were in the process of developing them. You're saying they could have been purposefully shady by obscuring the details; in what way would that benefit them?

I can't believe you forgot what a shit storm it was because all the mix messages coming from MS ITSELF. o a point where the shut down there own PR teams from talking...

hell every day was more confusion and even media was sick of it

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-digs-bigger-hole-over-used-games/1100-4647/

 

[Wickerbasket]

Again wasn't doing a comparison of PS4 vs. X1, is it possible for people to think outside of those boundaries? X1 and PS4 both are in the top 10 best selling items on Amazon for the year so using it as proof that either one is doing poorly is wrong.

They're both going to sell out at launch due to hardcore buyers, no one's disputing that.

It's the months after launch people are disputing; the X1 seems to have less interest amongst the public.

 

[TetraGenesis]

I understand that the general consensus is that Microsoft can do no good going into this upcoming generation, but, really, they've done everything you would want a corporation to do when faced with consumer backlash. They've listened, they've made changes, and they're ensuring to communicate that this is how they are going to operate moving forward.

So, what would MicroSoft have to do, beyond what they're doing now, to appease gamers?

Show some humility?

 

[.GqueB.]

Similar arguments were made when MS first announced the policy. "No one will care, people are online anyways, people won't remember by the time it launches, bros want their Xbox lol, etc." What happened, huge consumer backlash and a stunning reversal. The red ring also cost Microsoft a lot of money if I remember correctly so it's not like there were no consequences from that policy. Consumers can be forgetful but they can also mobilize quickly if something they want is genuinely threatened. Ability to play your console offline and play used games has been established as one of the fundamental rights of gaming. I want MS to do well and I am sure they will but they also need to abide by their commitments for the long haul.

Yes similar arguments were made but there was an uproar and they changed it. I'm not seeing your point. Are you saying that people are going to not buy their console based on what they almost did? They listened to their consumer and changed their policies which is undoubtably a GOOD thing. I still don't see how this hurts them in the long run.

They'll be fine. I know if they sell even ONE less console than sony people are going to scream to the high heavens about how they are screwed this gen. But I really don't see the long term effects of almost doing something.

 

[Breemin]

meh...

 

[PureGone]

Why, it's not like you'd believe them if they did.

I would.... because if they do it anyway after saying they wont then they risk being sued, exactly why they haven't said anything yet.

 

[professor_t]

MS needs to stop talking and focus on showing off their games.

 

[Gestault]

By having people frothing at the mouth to get an Xbox because they interpreted the details on the family plan to mean unfettered access to each game by ten different people.

And yes, thats the shady perspective. Personally I believe its a mix of having both a work in progress as well as a hands-off approach that allowed people without final details to assume the best possible outcomes, no matter how unrealistic.

I guess I'm of the view that they would be aware that the immediate realization from customers and potential buyers that the features weren't as described would be an issue short, mid and long-term.

Isn't it more likely that they were announcing programs that were still being developed, both conceptually and technically, and were describing them to promote the upcoming release of the platform they'd apply to? And that those programs would have relied on changes to the ecosystem that they would be using as leverage with publishers to implement them?

That plan not coming together in light of major pre-launch changes to fit what their audience made clear they wanted isn't something I feel merits criticism. That's apart from any personal intent to purchase. I understand lingering frustrations with potential corporate policies, but assuming malice on a company's part to the point of that the motivations veer into sheer stupidity seems neither accurate nor reasonable in most situations, and I think that rule of thumb applies here.

 

[ryaxnb]

They are the only console maker who's latest console is more successful than their last one. They dominate in the worlds largest home console market. They are in an enviable position whether some people like it or not.

This could also have applied to Nintendo before they launched Wii U, with the wii being a massive leap over gamecube in terms of success, and having the biggest installed base and most software sold of the 3 at the time wii u launched, but Wii U bombed (so far). So... that doesn't mean much.

 

[.GqueB.]

This could also have applied to Nintendo before they launched Wii U, with the wii being a massive leap over gamecube in terms of success, and having the biggest installed base and most software sold of the 3 at the time wii u launched, but Wii U bombed (so far). So... that doesn't mean much.

I think we can all agree that they made some rather key mistakes with the WiiU. Confusing product, bizarre launch, lack luster software. I'm not sure they are THAT comparable.

 

[Freki]

Is MS the grass in the Background or are they the clouds in the sky?

 

[RedNumberFive]

So, what would MicroSoft have to do, beyond what they're doing now, to appease gamers?

They need to stop blowing smoke, I mean clouds, up my ass.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

They're both going to sell out at launch due to hardcore buyers, no one's disputing that.

It's the months after launch people are disputing; the X1 seems to have less interest amongst the public.

So Xbox One is going to stop selling when Titanfall and Halo 5 come out next year?

 

[DC R1D3R]

We're you around then? You must not have been because we collectively shat on the PS3 for its first couple years.

I'm only bringing this up for the people with a persecution complex.

The highlights for PS3
- Jeering at the Price
- Giant Crab and Ridge Racer
- Resistance looks like crap.
- Lair
- Heavenly Sword
- PS3 has no games!
- First KZ2 image

On and on and on and on but it was fully deserved by Sony just like MS has done everything to deserve it themselves



When DC starts dropping "Bro" he is typically in joke mode

Lemme see, when I first started posting here Snah, Blue Lightning, YOU and a bunch of other left-wing Sony terrorists were all running round acting all wild and crazy :]

@ the guys who agree with my earlier posts.....my theory still stands. PS4 will be Sony's grand finale. World domination or bust.

 

[Busta]

You can't purchase the PS4 through BestBuy.com.. so it wouldn't show where the item is popular or not.

Love all the responses from people who didn't read the actual quote and fell for the click bait headline.



Basically just talking about Azure being able to easily provide digital content and services worldwide while MS also has a strong physical retail presence worldwide.

BTW, Xbox One is still dominating preorders at Best Buy.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...646572&add_to_pkg=false&pagetype=listing&gf=y

The console that nobody is supposed to want with games that nobody is supposed to care about are the most preordered at BB, huh? This console is going to be very successful despite what some would like you to believe.

 

[Gestault]

Are you comparing XB1 to PS3? In PS4 if one person has PS+ than anyone on that PS can take advantage of it. Also , you can forever and even now have your PSn profile on your friend PSN. I am not sure where you getting this Info?

Did Sony confirm that a PS+ account on a system means every account on that system also gets access to online play? If so, that's fantastic, but I'm talking about independent accounts in the sense of separate PSN IDs (rather than sub accounts), and I was under the impression from announcements that it wasn't the case.

And regarding mobile accounts on PS3, I have that information firsthand as a user. Aside from using an activation to associate your account with one of two other systems, there's no easy way using memory devices or cloud storage to simply bring your profile to a friend's system to play online coop with them, or earn trophies, or even use your own content without "authorizing" the platform.

 

[Wickerbasket]

So Xbox One is going to stop selling when Titanfall and Halo 5 come out next year?

Read what you bolded.

It has less interest amongst the public than their competitor; anything else you read from my post is from your own insecurities.

 

[Piggus]

I understand that the general consensus is that Microsoft can do no good going into this upcoming generation, but, really, they've done everything you would want a corporation to do when faced with consumer backlash. They've listened, they've made changes, and they're ensuring to communicate that this is how they are going to operate moving forward.

So, what would MicroSoft have to do, beyond what they're doing now, to appease gamers?

Well, they could start by demonstrating a bit of honesty instead of trying put spin on every piece of criticism that comes their way. Blaming others for their own mistakes and downplaying their competition probably isn't too wise either.

Their PR is so obnoxious at this point. I get it, Microsoft. You're a huge ass corporation trying to sell us a product by any means necessary. The problem is it doesn't feel like any of the people running the show are passionate about this industry. And even if they are, they're forced to speak in a highly calculated way intended for marketing even if it means straight up lying to consumers. Maybe they should realize that most people are capable of seeing past their bullshit.

Also the fact that they're congratulating themselves on their 180s is fucking childish. Most people appreciate that they reversed those policies but they don't need to be arrogant just because they made a logical decision. They have absolutely no business trying make themselves out to be a hero. They really just need to shut the hell up and show people cool games.

 

[Tallshortman]

Lemme see, when I first started posting here Snah, Blue Lightning, YOU and a bunch of other left-wing Sony terrorists were all running round acting all wild and crazy :]

Does that make you a right wing MS contra?

 

[LuchaShaq]

Pre drm bullshit I would have guessed me and my dozen or so friends would have gone Xbox one only or at least Xbox first.


Now? None of us plan to ever buy one until this generation is dead and you can get an Xbox one bundle on Craigslist for 50$


Also I don't know a single person who would use any of their tv or split screen bullshit it's too half assed.

If it had a 3tb hdd to be my new DVr? That's the only way to make me care about it tv wise.

 

[Sean*O]

Day after day after day they continue to spew the same arrogant nonsense over at Microsoft. All they are doing is turning more and more people off to their brand.

They just don't get it and it looks like they never will. Whoever is in charge of their direction and talking points is a complete moron.

 

[Mentok]

Everything Microsoft seemed to be offering was behind a paywall, They seemed to try to sell many policies that offered allot more benefit to them than it did to the consumer.

My idea behind my analogy is that, I would rather give a company money on the basis of a simple message they are trying to send out (sony) and not one that changes direction based on pre-orders etc, that make no mistake if the internet wasnt around like it is today for its backlash, all their policies would still exist.

Agreed that their policies were terrible and did not come across as consumer friendly. There were some policies that had a lot of speculation, but no one came right out and explained them - for example, resale of digital property and the family plan. I also agree that with this current gen, Sony's message has been simpler and steadfast. My argument was more towards the image that MS is evil and Sony, good. They're both corporations with a product to sell. Sony over-estimated their fan loyalty with the launch of the PS3, something they weren't about to do again. MS tried their hand at something different, it was met with a lot of (justifiable) backlash, so they changed it.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

No, he was on N4G trolling the absolute shit out of Sony/PS3.

Yeah I may not have been here when that was revealed a couple months ago but I saw. I see everything

It's a shame he found his way here, honestly.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Wow, they are utterly pathetic... how anyone with a functioning brain is willing to give them their confidence and money after all they have been doing and tried to do is beyond me.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Read what you bolded.

It has less interest amongst the public than their competitor; anything else you read from my post is from your own insecurities.

It's pointless to speculate if a year from now one system will have more or less interest than another. And once again it has nothing to do with the price of eggs. PS4 could be more popular, but X1 is still a huge success selling much faster than the Xbox 360 did.

Is there a reason why you can't discuss the success or failure of Xbox One without bringing PS4 into the discussion? The level of interest in the Xbox One is going to increase, not decrease over time as increasingly better games and apps come out for the system.

Xbox One is not facing Wii-U type of problems of a lack of 3rd party support or high profile exclusives in the first year. The suggestion that Xbox One is going to burn through it's hardcore adopters at launch and then not find any interest beyond that is nonsense. The announced lineup of AAA games is extremely strong for Xbox One looking out for the next 2 years.

 

[DC R1D3R]

Does that make you a right wing MS contra?

I stay armoured bro :[

Pre drm bullshit I would have guessed me and my dozen or so friends would have gone Xbox one only or at least Xbox first.


Now? None of us plan to ever buy one until this generation is dead and you can get an Xbox one bundle on Craigslist for 50$

Damn you're way too harsh bro. Xbox is for the kids.

 

[B_Boss]

My god its frustrating to read anything MS says about their 180......they were screwed, the money forecast did not look good, they immediately changed course as a result. The only aspect of that entire scenario that has to do with what the "consumer wanted" was that they were the ones who inevitably caused them to changed because they were pissed and did not like what was going on when being forced (which implies that they weren't being listened to in this context), period.

...meanwhile misterxmedia is ice skating uphill as usual:

Insider Daily. Albert Pennelo is correct as dGPU inside Xbox One is not single big discrete GPU
September 10th, 11:16

Misterx: Great info for all of us! Thanks! Yep there is still more of unknown....That will be great generation no matter of PS4 lie...Hope your studio will earn big money this time
Insider: Mct now your seeking its clear when the little things are all ways right there. .. the past is the way forward some timez. But things do change and have changed and its for the best.

On the 30th day gaf will burn. The sender will return to the source to wipe away the anonymous. Who have controlled the free opinions of many.

The respect ms has had to earn via listen to you the family .. has been better for the company. There people are like you.. Dons vision was to draconian and to soon. A console does not need a mobile devising concept ... but 10 years from now mobility will be our consoles of the future. It could be that simple as a brain wave. Or by 2030 a visually stunning hologram.
Steve has done the right thing with his time. He took his ultimate vision of x1 .. straight to the film music and app.. and games developers of the world a clear winning vision. Nobody knows the huge amount of backers that are on board now.

Insider: Look at deem downgraded ps4 graphics. Sony lies

Insider: Like I said ms / and other people as in technical minded would be on this blog soon enough.

Microsoft has been slowly moving them salves into sonygaf.. only right as to give clear info to the miss informed. You will see all this come together by the 30th. The wording Albert has used in explaining the dgpu is correct ... there is no single big discrete gpu. As its all on the main single chip. And the components are split into two. That is also why there are three gpu blocks on the hotchip slides.
And this deep down tech = stereo driver. They are just wording things differently as to have impact.

Now like I said we have tested 100 of designs. That have all come down to this. I will say this power based cpus are out .. but some of this technology has remained in essence they are dpu.

Mistercteam is correct in all his technical aspects.
but not all of these are intended for this hardware.
keep digging. Its not long now and a majority of your findings will come to life.

And misterx is not to blame for information that is presented here. In our conversations he all ways puts forward a bios and subjective opinion towards all the information. And as such should not be questionable or responsible for any criticism. He is in titled to his own free opinions also... Keep digging. The days are
only hours away.

 

[apana]

Yes similar arguments were made but there was an uproar and they changed it. I'm not seeing your point. Are you saying that people are going to not buy their console based on what they almost did? They listened to their consumer and changed their policies which is undoubtably a GOOD thing. I still don't see how this hurts them in the long run.

They'll be fine. I know if they sell even ONE less console than sony people are going to scream to the high heavens about how they are screwed this gen. But I really don't see the long term effects of almost doing something.

My point is that people are too quick to discount consumer awareness. So don't assume that all is forgotten and forgiven unconditionally, there are still standards that they must adhere to. Reversal is good but sticking to it and making sure consumers are aware of what your plans are going forward is even better.

 

[Vizzeh]

Agreed that their policies were terrible and did not come across as consumer friendly. There were some policies that had a lot of speculation, but no one came right out and explained them - for example, resale of digital property and the family plan. I also agree that with this current gen, Sony's message has been simpler and steadfast. My argument was more towards the image that MS is evil and Sony, good. They're both corporations with a product to sell. Sony over-estimated their fan loyalty with the launch of the PS3, something they weren't about to do again. MS tried their hand at something different, it was met with a lot of (justifiable) backlash, so they changed it.

Its as if PR + hardware R+D have completely switched sides, this gen sony had the bad PR + dodgy PS3, cell, un-unified ram, similar to what you said - cockiness, compare that to MS next gen, seemingly complicated eSram/move engines combined with average DDR3 and terrible PR, massive userbase and perhaps cockiness

The benefit ms have is I guess alot of details we truly don't know about their console technically so it may not be as bad as it seems, maybe this will be a learning curve for MS and they will open more studios, give away more free games (or continue to, aligned with psplus) - Its a funny world. Bring on Gen After-next X2 vs PS5

 

[Killing_Joke]

Meh. Typical PR bullshit. I'm pretty sure Sony is extremely happy with the situation they're in. Plus have we seen Cloud in action at all? I know they showed it off in Forza but that could have been nothing. I want to see it it in action just like im looking foward to Gaikai.

 

[szaromir]

We're you around then? You must not have been because we collectively shat on the PS3 for its first couple years.

I'm only bringing this up for the people with a persecution complex.

The highlights for PS3
- Jeering at the Price
- Giant Crab and Ridge Racer
- Resistance looks like crap.
- Lair
- Heavenly Sword
- PS3 has no games!
- First KZ2 image

On and on and on and on but it was fully deserved by Sony just like MS has done everything to deserve it themselves

All those missteps by Sony and there still was a very strong contingent of fans religiously defending every Sony's decision.

 

[Mentok]

Its as if PR + hardware R+D have completely switched sides, this gen sony had the bad PR + dodgy PS3, cell, un-unified ram, similar to what you said - cockiness, compare that to MS next gen, seemingly complicated eSram/move engines combined with average DDR3 and terrible PR, massive userbase and perhaps cockiness

Hahaha, it's funny you should say that because I was thinking the same thing following the MS interviews after their unveiling and E3. They had confusing PR, which was unusual from them considering how steadfast they usually are (remember Kinect being hailed as enriching your game experience? WABAM!). I honestly think that with Sony showing the PS4 so early, MS showed their console before they were ready. I think a lot of concepts they unveiled were still being discussed, but weren't fully fleshed out.

 

[Shawn30]

Everything Microsoft seemed to be offering was behind a paywall, They seemed to try to sell many policies that offered allot more benefit to them than it did to the consumer.

My idea behind my analogy is that, I would rather give a company money on the basis of a simple message they are trying to send out (sony) and not one that changes direction based on pre-orders etc, that make no mistake if the internet wasnt around like it is today for its backlash, all their policies would still exist.



I don't think you can use the price tag of the PS3 as an example of non-gamer scenetric, or evil, its not like they were trying to obtain massive profits it was down to the fact that their costs where so high, at 699, compare that to a modern cell phone, its not that far away, its not ideal and they made an investment that needed paying for as the cell was an expensive chip to produce/R+D.

The amount of 1st party developers owned are clear, they are about games and investing in that. Compare that to MS and its a pisstake - I for one wish they would open more instead of buying exclusives to better promote their system.
The second job quote, was a ridiculous, I would put more pressure on the spokesman though, im sure he got a nice meeting with the execs. As for the hacking, it happens, they didn't intentionally try to screw anyone.
The difference between both companies is intent. You can draw reasonably good arguments from past policies or money grabbing attempts to see who was trying to set up a licence, or a shadow tax on most things you do.

From what I have seen from sony they have set a very reasonable price for better hardware (screw kinect ) Have a pay wall for PsPlus and charge for games. Simple, thats always been the message.

-ps I could also go into the whole transister/fluffy cloud and random mouth farts that MS sometimes say with their tech stuff aswell but I dont want to come accross as overly negative. I personally would like X1 to do well for competition... if they got rid of kinect, or atleast allowed it to be switched off!! (would love that) plus show some gaming appetite by opening more studios, I would be all over it, at the minute most their exclusives seem like timed and could be on the more powerful alternative eventually anyway.

If the PS3 pricetag of $699 dollars isnt non-gamer centric due to the costs of the insides, then you have just absolved the Xbox One's price as well. And don't say no one wants Kinect, as I do and so do many others. I don't want a PS4 despite what most people say, but thats just my opinion. Their investment in the cell failed miserably as its not in the PS4, while MS is including version 2 of Kinect in every Xbox One.

1st party devs versus buying games is the single most ridiculous argument online that I see. Who cares how a console gets a game, so long as it gets it. Does the third-party who sells a game to MS work not as hard, lack commitment, focus, and creativity simply because they aren't first party? Give me a break on that one. Whether you invest inhouse or purchase outside you are a gaming company so long as games are on your system that people like. Just my two cents.

In my opinion the Xbox One, with its entertainment features, motion/voice control, snapping, exclusive games, dedicated servers and Kinect as my son loves it makes the price worth it in my opinion. 4 months before the release of the system my concerns were addressed and on opening day I'm there.

 

[Stoffinator]

Everything MS say seems to suggest they will be bringing back all their bullshit digital practices in the future. They've changed their policies to appease people in the short term, but I think they're going to wait for the 'right' time to reintroduce it and implement the Family Sharing thing to try and soften the hate.

This is how I felt when they first did the 180. That down the line they will introduce all this stuff once the install base is big. Then "turn" it on again and screw everyone. Knowing that most will not stop buying software for the system and will just deal with it.

 

[Super Nothing]

Yes similar arguments were made but there was an uproar and they changed it. I'm not seeing your point. Are you saying that people are going to not buy their console based on what they almost did? They listened to their consumer and changed their policies which is undoubtably a GOOD thing. I still don't see how this hurts them in the long run.

They'll be fine. I know if they sell even ONE less console than sony people are going to scream to the high heavens about how they are screwed this gen. But I really don't see the long term effects of almost doing something.

Yep. I know I'm not buying an XBone based on what they intended to do. The only reason they didn't go through with it is because they found out the hard way (terrible pre-orders) that the public wouldn't swallow their BS. The intent was there to screw us over, and I believe it will surface again. It might take until the next console generation, but I think they'll try to force their anti-consumer policies again. This has soured me on Microsoft as a company. I no longer trust them, so I will no longer do business with them. I used to be loyal to the XBox brand, now I won't even consider buying one.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Good grief. I can't even with MS anymore

 

[Amir0x]

I know they have to say it, but I'm also a little bemused when they say they're so committed to choice. Like, um, ok, why weren't you committed only three months ago?

I'm glad they came around, have apologized for many of their mistakes and 180d the bulk of them (price, Kinect pack-in and paywall stuff notwithstanding), but it still seems weird they try to act like they've always been at the forefront of choice.

 

[Ricerocket]

I don't think it's enviable that you have to go back on your vision. Personally I'd rather that companies stick to their guns and go with what they feel. Doing all these 180s means they fucked up and it shows their competitor is bringing it.

 

[hoos30]

Show some humility?

I don't think people are expecting MS to go sit in the corner and cry softly for two months. Actually, I do think some people are expecting that. And not only are they expecting that, we are going to hear it over and over until launch.

 

[PartyTimeFunTime]

I understand that the general consensus is that Microsoft can do no good going into this upcoming generation, but, really, they've done everything you would want a corporation to do when faced with consumer backlash. They've listened, they've made changes, and they're ensuring to communicate that this is how they are going to operate moving forward.

So, what would MicroSoft have to do, beyond what they're doing now, to appease gamers?

Give GAF free Xbones. Then they would still complain because its not a Ps4.