velvet_nitemare
Member
Heh do you know something we don't.
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GamesRadar: Its time for Nintendo to admit defeat and make a true next-gen console
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
Heh do you know something we don't.
Didn't know you posted here, jres. Cool. This place is a much healthier environment for actual discussion than fucking NGG...
Maybe they will, maybe they won't. We'll see what happens. I believe the gaming market as a whole still is in a difficult spot and highly unstable.
To Far Away Times
Member
Nintendo's problem is the lack of third party support, and they had that problem when they had a cheaper and more powerful console than the PS2.
You can't just eat the losses. Outside of that you run the gambit of pissing of your core fans. It may not be a lot (I think it's more than many think actually) but these are the folks who have supported the console day 1. You pull the rug on them and hope that in 3 years, they stay with you while also getting dat new new, is just crazy. And 3 years.....what will they have in 3 years?
Keep the system, make great games for it, build your niche, and then come back strong next time. Sony didn't say fuck it...we ded when the PS3 was struggling. They manned up, fixed there shit and eventually things turned around.
It's not that bad. Nintendo is faaar from bankrupt. It's far from dying. The Wii U is doing awful...no doubt. But the idea that this is it is pretty damn silly. They have another Wii U level failure before it comes to that.
If Nintendo can drop a new machine in 2016 (or maybe even 2015 is Wii U doesn't pick up) that's up to snuff with the XB1 or PS4, giving them a 3 year cost/performance buffer, they can get back in the game for real imo.
Then they can stagger off each generation from the other guys, allowing them to release a couple years AFTER the hardware giants with equal hardware, instead of the same year or a year BEFORE with significantly weaker hardware.
The Wii struck a cultural cord with it's fresh and quirky ideas, and 1st party titles were enough to carry it for a few years. But if Nintendo legitimately wants to stick around for the long haul and close the incoming gap, they need better 3rd party support, and this strategy would allow for that. It would be coming out 2-3 years after the other two, and while it wouldn't get those first few years of 3rd party content, having that hardware parity when it finally DOES release makes competent ports for every large 3rd party release obligatory once again. They've gotten on the wrong side of the console cycle to take best advantage of their frugal strategy.
Then they can stagger off each generation from the other guys, allowing them to release a couple years AFTER the hardware giants with equal hardware, instead of the same year or a year BEFORE with significantly weaker hardware.
The Wii struck a cultural cord with it's fresh and quirky ideas, and 1st party titles were enough to carry it for a few years. But if Nintendo legitimately wants to stick around for the long haul and close the incoming gap, they need better 3rd party support, and this strategy would allow for that. It would be coming out 2-3 years after the other two, and while it wouldn't get those first few years of 3rd party content, having that hardware parity when it finally DOES release makes competent ports for every large 3rd party release obligatory once again. They've gotten on the wrong side of the console cycle to take best advantage of their frugal strategy.
Wii U? Dead? Sounds like a broken record by now.
Console is prepped to bring a new Mario Kart, DKC, and of course Smash within the next year. A Monolith Soft RPG and an Atlus crossover are on the horizon. Even if this was the entire library of games for the thing I'd buy the shit out of it.
Whether the press likes it or not, the Wii U's gonna stick around for a bit, and Nintendo is going to keep pouring effort into it. And Wii U owners will probably keep enjoying our systems.
Even if the thing ends up being remembered as a modern Dreamcast... I'd be OK with that. After all, the legacy of the Dreamcast is damn near unparalleled. People are still making games for that thing.
Console is prepped to bring a new Mario Kart, DKC, and of course Smash within the next year. A Monolith Soft RPG and an Atlus crossover are on the horizon. Even if this was the entire library of games for the thing I'd buy the shit out of it.
Whether the press likes it or not, the Wii U's gonna stick around for a bit, and Nintendo is going to keep pouring effort into it. And Wii U owners will probably keep enjoying our systems.
Even if the thing ends up being remembered as a modern Dreamcast... I'd be OK with that. After all, the legacy of the Dreamcast is damn near unparalleled. People are still making games for that thing.
I thought they had already alienated their entire fanbase with the original Wii?
How is it that the 3DS fares better though? The DS was also used to propel expanded-audience software such as brain games, animal care simulators, cooking games
I haven't got the impression that going for an expanded audience has garnered the derision of Nintendo gamers towards the "DS" brand. Though I suppose it comes down to differences in expectations between consoles and handhelds.Agreed. It's a broken system. The sad thing is that the ones who suffer are the people who invest in this industry the most
All this is utter non sense not based on what actually exists. I've already said this but Ninetndo can write off the first year as a soft launch/beta period for getting their network stable and hd dev transitioning. So all sales up until now have been gravy from this perspective.
Now that all 3 consoles are out we will see what actually happens. All signs right now are showing the wiiu doing the best it has since launch. From the press, to marketing to stock levels in stores...look around, check other threads, etc. The wiu is up-trending. Its now at a point where it has games and the other next gen consoles are out so people can see everyone's value proposition.
Games and price with an increased marketing push (already happening) is going to stabilize the positive uptrend for the wiiu.The ps4 is in good shape competing against the X1, since the ps4 has a much better value proposition right now (better tech & a lower price). Personally I'd watch the X1, its value proposition I dont think will support a $500 price tag after the holiday season.
People buying an X1 are going to compare it to a ps4. When you do that, I think the x1 is going to have problems. The multiplat games will also be on the ps4, which is cheaper and has better specs. People flap about titanfall, that will give it a sales bump but thats all, I seriously doubt its going to sell a $500 console long term with big numbers.
Then we have the wiiu, given the ps4 and x1 are in direct competition because of 3rd party software, the wiiu lacks 3rd party software, which works for and against it. It works for the wiiu in this case since people buying the wiiu will do so because of the exclusive games from Nintendo.
Its pretty much the 3ds playbook, which it looks like is working. Thats not to say its going to work on the level of the 3ds but the plan is in effect and beginning to take shape. With more games in the pipeline and hopefully an official 249 price, the wiiu will do fine.Not wii levels but good enough.I think a lot of these Nintendo haters are going to be surprised how things stabilize in a positive trend long term come 2014.
Version 3.0
Member
There's absolutely zero evidence to support this so far. It isn't doing better than the Gamecube, it's doing far worse. It hasn't outsold the Gamecube's equivalent month, not at launch, not once, not even close. It's dead in Europe, on life support in Japan, and here in the U.S., its strongest territory, its sales are anemic at best.
Life-to-date in the U.S. (through October), the Wii U has sold a bit shy of 1.4 million units. The Gamecube at the same time in its life (first 12 months) had sold a little shy of 2.5 million.
Worldwide, Nintendo (according to their financial statement) has shipped 3.91 million Wii U's as of the end of September. According to the same document in 2002, through September of that year (the same exact time frame), they had shipped 6.68 million Gamecubes.
Maybe the Wii U could do Gamecube numbers if it had a Gamecube price tag, which was $149 at this point in its life. But I doubt it. Its game library, both 1st and 3rd party, is smaller (and of lower quality, in my opinion), it has fewer announced games on the way from both 1st and 3rd parties, and I just don't see any reason for its fortunes to change.
I'm not happy with Nintendo and the Wii U, but this is the dumbest thing I've heard. Lets just piss away millions of dollars and all that inventory just sitting there. Lets rush a design through and than build a prototype and test it. Then what about the programming and game design. How about the fans you have just pissed off? I'm glad it looks so easy on paper...that's it guys lets make the GAF box.
BlackClouds
Member
Sales are shit, only 6% of black friday according to one graph, both next gen systems doing several times that. It's over. Nintendo really needs to make the hard decisions required to turn this around.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
I think people should just sit back and enjoy 2014 for the Wii U, it's going to have some awesome exclusive games lining up and that will only equal more sales. If they cap the year off with a Zelda game that looks like this:
The Wii U will be better than fine through next year and build momentum for 2015 and beyond.
The Wii U will be better than fine through next year and build momentum for 2015 and beyond.
opticalmace
Member
Wow, I forgot it launched at $199! Nutty.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
Looking back, the price for the Gamecube was definitely too expensive. It was a game machine only that came with one controller and no memory card and no game.
opticalmace
Member
I was actually thinking it was a pretty decent launch price. $100 less than the Xbox and PS2. And apparently they cut it to $150 pretty quickly, too.
ebullientprism
Member
Yep. WiiU will find its niche, small as it might be. At this point I think its fair to say that it wont be successful and it will cost Nintendo a fair bit of money but if they move on from it in 2-3 years they will have a hard time selling anything new they make. Who would buy that system knowing that if that one bombs too, it might be junked in 2 years after that?
It sets a bad precedent that hurts them in the long run. The next 2-3 years will be hard but they will have to tough it out. They have the warchest to be able to bounce back from these losses and thankfully the 3DS is finding its stride so they wont be completely out of your average gamer's mindshare for the next few years.
For the record, I do think that calling it the WiiU was a stupid idea. As was the gamepad. Then again, hindsight is 20/20 and I doubt I would say the same if the WiiU was tearing it up like the Wii.
I dunno, the actual market for people who play games is bigger. Bigger than it's ever been. I'm sure the WiiU will sell more than 20 million in it's life time considering it's done ~4 million in a year unless Nintendo decide to quickly wrap up the cycle.
EDIT:
Actually I take that back, Gamecube sold ~4 million in it's first year. Wii sold 18. Sheesh.
Randolph Freelander
Member
If we play "fun with math" (that guaranteed doesn't mean anything, let's not get carried away), we'll take the stated GameCube number through September of 6.68 million and bump that up against GameCube's lifetime sales of 22 million, and we find GameCube was already at 30.3636% of its total sales at that point in its life.
Wii U's 3.91 million as of September is 30.3636% of 12.87 million. Now I'm not saying that's where Wii U ends up, because you know, things are different. We're just playing fun with math, after all.
-------
Note to self: revise prediction of 15 million for Wii U downward next chance you get.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Talking to developers and publishers about what they want from a console and implementing it will certainly help fixing the problem.
It's difficult to predict how exactly console sell, I mean look at the 3DS's first year (4.5 million) compared to right now (almost 40!)
But the biggest turn around was the PS3 which sold 3.something million in it's first year and then finished with 80 million.
Between both those consoles I'm going to assume the redesigns were a big reason for this.
This. Whilst I don't think Nintendo will fail to the point of collapse, I really hope they lose so much money and market share that it helps knock the hubris out of them.
Reggie recently saying that what fans ask for doesn't affect their decisions is arrogant and quite frankly bullshit. If fans start saying 'we're not buying Mario any more' you can god damn bet Nintendo will release something else. I realise that what he is saying is that they need to make financially prudent decisions, but the way it was said was full of arrogance,
I think people should just sit back and enjoy 2014 for the Wii U, it's going to have some awesome exclusive games lining up and that will only equal more sales. If they cap the year off with a Zelda game that looks like this:
The Wii U will be better than fine through next year and build momentum for 2015 and beyond.
That Zelda game isn't coming until 2015 the earliest, along with Smash Bros.
By that time Wii U will be long past irrelevant with 16 million consoles sold. Only way I see them hitting 35 million is if that price drops to $225 the same time Mario Kart 8 comes out.
GameAddict411
Member
phones now have 1080p screens, that POS of screen in the wii-u is laughable.
civilstrife
Member
I think people should just sit back and enjoy 2014 for the Wii U, it's going to have some awesome exclusive games lining up and that will only equal more sales. If they cap the year off with a Zelda game that looks like this:
The Wii U will be better than fine through next year and build momentum for 2015 and beyond.
There is none percent chance the new Zelda will look like that.
Devs/Pubs are avoiding the platform becuase it's Nintendo platform, not because of the hardware.
Dr. Buni
Member
Smash Bros is coming next year.
Why? Not that I care, that isn't exactly the art style/visuals I'd want for Zelda U.
TastyOreoFriend
Member
This is very true. Back when I worked at Gamestop I had a lot of people, including parents, who thought that it was nothing more than a peripheral for the the regular Wii. They've done a shit job at advertising the thing.
Real talk. They no longer have the novelty of the Wiimote and WiiSports to push sales. The thing needs a $100 price cut and a constant stream of good games asap, and more than just ninty franchises. Third party devs have got to be incentivized to develop for it-bust out the moneyhats for some timed exclusives or DLC, and for better or worse let someone else handle the online infrastructure. It's quite obvious at this point that Nintendo is incapable of getting online right. Some of this is probably asking a lot, considering Nintendo has historically been an inwardly focused company, but its better than falling into obscurity.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Going to have to question where you're getting your figures. I don't have PS3 numbers handy, but 3DS released at the beginning of 2011 and had shipped 15 million by the end of it. It shipped slightly less in calendar year 2012, and is trending less in calendar year 2013, but we'll see if 2DS can reverse that trend.
You might be mixing US (or another region's) first year with worldwide totals.
I tend to agree. The hardware may even be less capable than that and if it's not, that's a single room. No way could Wii u keep that up in an open environment.
Dreams-Visions
Member
These articles seem to be of the persuasion that simply upgrading the graphics will solve all the problems. Nintendo hasn't figured out how to do online right and their major IP's are only just now starting to get releases on the WiiU. A year after launch. I agree that better hardware would allow for better ports of 3rd party games and certainly 3rd party games are really important. BUT...Nintendo really just needs to unleash their big IP's on a good, aggressive schedule.
If the WiiU had launched with Mario Land 3D, LoZWWHD, and Metroid Prime 4 (or any 2 of the 3), they would have sold millions of consoles. But they didn't, and it took damn near a year for a piece of software to release that justified the existence of the hardware. THAT is the WiiU is where it is now, and why people are preparing its eulogy. Whether Nintendo can turn around the image now feels unlikely. You rarely get a second chance to make a first impression...and the new stars from Sony and Microsoft are taking all the spotlight. The window of opportunity may have been missed.
....but let's be real: they will show us a breath-taking new Zelda game and a new Metroid Prime and everyone here that doesn't already have a WiiU will get one. Because it's still Nintendo and they still deliver objective excellence more often than not. I wish them well. But no, a simple hardware upgrade won't fix their problem. A better, faster release schedule for their big IP's would.
If the WiiU had launched with Mario Land 3D, LoZWWHD, and Metroid Prime 4 (or any 2 of the 3), they would have sold millions of consoles. But they didn't, and it took damn near a year for a piece of software to release that justified the existence of the hardware. THAT is the WiiU is where it is now, and why people are preparing its eulogy. Whether Nintendo can turn around the image now feels unlikely. You rarely get a second chance to make a first impression...and the new stars from Sony and Microsoft are taking all the spotlight. The window of opportunity may have been missed.
....but let's be real: they will show us a breath-taking new Zelda game and a new Metroid Prime and everyone here that doesn't already have a WiiU will get one. Because it's still Nintendo and they still deliver objective excellence more often than not. I wish them well. But no, a simple hardware upgrade won't fix their problem. A better, faster release schedule for their big IP's would.
zenosparadox
Member
That is not necessarily true and you know it. You do not have a crystal ball, and any points you are trying to make a lost by speaking in tired hyperbole rather over simple truths or straight-forward opinions.
IVIEDICATED
Banned
Fox Mulder
Member
Nintendo made many mistakes with the wiiu, but they are probably right in not wanting to compete with Sony/MS.
Nintendo would get smashed trying to compete with the pockets of both companies, and is there even room for three identical consoles that get 90% of the same games?
there's nothing wrong with the approach of profitable hardware or attention gimmicks, they just have to price it right and support it properly as well.
Nintendo would get smashed trying to compete with the pockets of both companies, and is there even room for three identical consoles that get 90% of the same games?
there's nothing wrong with the approach of profitable hardware or attention gimmicks, they just have to price it right and support it properly as well.
TastyOreoFriend
Member
That's really their biggest problem right now. The touch screen gamepad doesn't have the attention grabbing power of the Wii mote. Not many of the games out on the console have really proven the concept. It's a shame too cause I can see how good it could be just remembering the Dreamcast VMU's.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Yeah, killing your console prematurely within 1 to 2 years worked great for Sega, NEC, Panasonic, etc, right? Who is going to buy another Nintendo console in a 1 to 2 year time frame if their relatively expensive investment called the Wii U perished early? Not too many people imo. The only way a more powerful console would even stand an iota of a chance is if it is priced $99 to $200 which I doubt will ever happen. Honestly, a more powerful Nintendo console would probably not rectify Nintendo's issues. They might as well at least try to stick with it and release more games for it and eventually drop the price to $200 to see if that helps, but honestly, I also blame the direction of the market just as much as Nintendo's decisions.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
This is stupid advice.
A lot of people would be annoyed that Nintendo ditched the console so soon and be hesitant to buy a new one. This not only includes Wii U owners, but also prospective customers. (I'm a big Nintendo fan, but I certainly wouldn't rush out to buy the next Nintendo console if they killed the Wii U prematurely - how could I be sure that Nintendo wouldn't end that console prematurely too?)
PS4/XB1 owners would still buy multiplat games on the PS4/XB1 because that's where all their friends are, and see no reason to buy a new console just to play the same games. (How many PS360 owners bought a Wii U to play [insert multiplat here]? I'd wager "None.") This would instantly result in the third party situation being exactly the same as it is now.
TLR The only thing this would achieve is Nintendo ending up in a far worse position and cutting further into their finances.
A lot of people would be annoyed that Nintendo ditched the console so soon and be hesitant to buy a new one. This not only includes Wii U owners, but also prospective customers. (I'm a big Nintendo fan, but I certainly wouldn't rush out to buy the next Nintendo console if they killed the Wii U prematurely - how could I be sure that Nintendo wouldn't end that console prematurely too?)
PS4/XB1 owners would still buy multiplat games on the PS4/XB1 because that's where all their friends are, and see no reason to buy a new console just to play the same games. (How many PS360 owners bought a Wii U to play [insert multiplat here]? I'd wager "None.") This would instantly result in the third party situation being exactly the same as it is now.
TL
R The only thing this would achieve is Nintendo ending up in a far worse position and cutting further into their finances.KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Except that's not true at all. Revisionist history is a funny thing.
iamaustrian
Member
It's time for gaming press to fucking stop writing "Nintendo doomed!" articles and rather look at all the awesome WiiU games.
The WiiU is here to stay. it will get many more great games so, please, deal with it already.
the worst thing Nintendo could do atm is to ditch the console altogether and announce a new system. What a super stupid advice.
The WiiU is here to stay. it will get many more great games so, please, deal with it already.
the worst thing Nintendo could do atm is to ditch the console altogether and announce a new system. What a super stupid advice.
IrishNinja
Member
ugh, this topic
anyone actually saying they should abandon the WU is not worth listening to: you don't do what Stolar did with the Saturn & kill your product/fanbase, it ruins the faith early consumers have in your product. they stood by the GC for an entire gen, no reason to think they'll potentially irreparably damage their brand this go around
at least triple!
no, they had rare. that's about the difference - otherwise, it's mostly been the same cycle if you've been paying attention: strong first party output, handful of great 3rd party gems. Rare filled a great void & complimented their lineup better than anything since, though.
also this, though sony was admittedly in a better place to turn around with the 3rd party support on deck
yes its always lamentable when studios play to their strengths, rather than...whatever weird thing you want this week
i don't want that, so your vote is negated
also you'll need a PS4 even if WU gets all the multi-plats, if even just for exclusives
anyone actually saying they should abandon the WU is not worth listening to: you don't do what Stolar did with the Saturn & kill your product/fanbase, it ruins the faith early consumers have in your product. they stood by the GC for an entire gen, no reason to think they'll potentially irreparably damage their brand this go around
at least triple!
no, they had rare. that's about the difference - otherwise, it's mostly been the same cycle if you've been paying attention: strong first party output, handful of great 3rd party gems. Rare filled a great void & complimented their lineup better than anything since, though.
also this, though sony was admittedly in a better place to turn around with the 3rd party support on deck
yes its always lamentable when studios play to their strengths, rather than...whatever weird thing you want this week
i don't want that, so your vote is negated
also you'll need a PS4 even if WU gets all the multi-plats, if even just for exclusives
Dr. Buni
Member
Nintendo in their Nintendo 64 years was the worst. Every single one of their other consoles were better than that abomination.
Fox Mulder
Member
well not many people have bought the wiiu, and Nintendo is still in solid financial position. They don't need to leave a bad product on the market too long though, that could hurt them more than making the hard choice to kill it.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Nintendo would commit consumer confidence suicide from "admitting defeat", if Nintendo releases a "true next gen console" it won't be until 2017 most likely and then it'll probably end up only being on par with the current gen or maybe a bit more powerful but this generation will already be nearing its own end, even if they do it in 2016 Nintendo is going to be in a weird pattern that's out of sync with the MS and Sony (assuming there is another XBox and Playstation) in terms of hardware progression which is more bad for them than it is their competition.
Nintendo absolutely screwed up big time with the WiiU but they're never, ever going to publicly admit it before the successor is on the horizon. What's best for Nintendo now is to just continue what they're doing and get their games out because there really hasn't been much reason to own a Nintendo console aside from their first/second party games since the N64 and that's not going to change so in one way nothing has changed except Nintendo's console audience is shrinking and it's clear they totally took the wrong things from the Wii's success.
It doesn't matter as I think Nintendo gave up a long time ago trying to attract much of the PS/XB audience but I imagine they'd be in a better place now if they had at least put the money they sunk into the gamepad/screen gimmick into the hardware itself and went with customized APU as well instead of sticking with IBM for the CPU. How many people who have bought a WiiU have cared about backward compatibility on a console you can buy pretty damn cheap now or didn't already own one? Obviously the new console (it wouldn't be called WiiU which is still an awful, poorly thought out name) would still at least be lagging behind the PS4 in terms of performance but the difference between the three consoles could have been much smaller and perhaps with games being a bit easier to port third parties wouldn't be ignoring it and it may have actually had clearly better versions of games it got compared to the XB360/PS3 counterparts.
Meh, oh well Nintendo is going to dump the WiiU any time soon and that paragraph I wrote is irrelevant because as I already said people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games primarily anyway.
Nintendo absolutely screwed up big time with the WiiU but they're never, ever going to publicly admit it before the successor is on the horizon. What's best for Nintendo now is to just continue what they're doing and get their games out because there really hasn't been much reason to own a Nintendo console aside from their first/second party games since the N64 and that's not going to change so in one way nothing has changed except Nintendo's console audience is shrinking and it's clear they totally took the wrong things from the Wii's success.
It doesn't matter as I think Nintendo gave up a long time ago trying to attract much of the PS/XB audience but I imagine they'd be in a better place now if they had at least put the money they sunk into the gamepad/screen gimmick into the hardware itself and went with customized APU as well instead of sticking with IBM for the CPU. How many people who have bought a WiiU have cared about backward compatibility on a console you can buy pretty damn cheap now or didn't already own one? Obviously the new console (it wouldn't be called WiiU which is still an awful, poorly thought out name) would still at least be lagging behind the PS4 in terms of performance but the difference between the three consoles could have been much smaller and perhaps with games being a bit easier to port third parties wouldn't be ignoring it and it may have actually had clearly better versions of games it got compared to the XB360/PS3 counterparts.
Meh, oh well Nintendo is going to dump the WiiU any time soon and that paragraph I wrote is irrelevant because as I already said people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games primarily anyway.
The N64 seems to get very polarising opinions, which I've never quite understood. In my view, the 64 was clearly Nintendo's best console software-wise, with only the SNES being in the same category. So many classics on that system, and sure, Rare had quite a bit to do with that, but Nintendo had a heap of their own, too. Quite a few of my favourite games of all time are on the N64.
They had no problems creating great western games on the N64. They do not develop them any longer due to sheer stubborness. No other reason whatsoever.
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