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[JDSN]

Hero-Age representing, no "Flight" in their "Flight or fight" reflex, not in these badass motherfuckers, No sir.

 

[EliCash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2EirLJqghA
:lol :lol

:lol I was waiting for someone to post this.

Jackie Chiles you magnificent bastard.

 

[BigJonsson]

Okay, don't intervene. But if you aren't going to do shit, don't stand within feet of the vicious beating.

That's what pisses me off.

They were waiting for the cops to arrive and making sure no one else got involved

 

[WretchedTruman]

Hero-Age representing, no "Flight" in their "Flight or fight" reflex, not in these badass motherfuckers, No sir.

By the same logic, I dare you to be a bystander in this situation and do absolute nothing to help that girl. See if you can be proud of yourself a week, a month, a year later.

I know that we've got the armchair realists in here wallowing in their own thoughts of, "Well I know what the world is really like, so here ya go..."

But compassion sure as shit is a part of reality, too, and you better believe that I know the difference between what's ethical and what's logical. Sometimes the two don't always see eye-to-eye, but damned if I wont feel better about myself and others when I choose the former.

If these security officers were to be slammed on the stand, you "realists" would be outnumbered 5 to 1 by people who would want them criticized for their actions (or lack, thereof, in this case). It doesn't mean that you see between the lines or any of that bullshit.

security guards cant and shouldn't be allowed to intervene in such affairs.

if they did do something, they would have been fired and possibly charged, they aren't police, they're walking insurance breaks. they did the right thing.

purely an issue of semantics, but the "right thing" certainly isn't the correct phrase here.

 

[cdyhybrid]

If I was waiting for my bus and saw this shit, I'd take more than a few steps away, probably around a corner (just in case a gun came out) and do jack shit. No fucking way I'm helping anyone that I don't know unless it's an EXTREME case of violence (rape, violence vs. children) because it's not worth the risk. You can preach about morals and doing the right thing all you want, but I'd rather be considered morally bankrupt by some anonymous people on the internet than considered legally bankrupt (or a criminal). I'd love to jump into fights and beat the shit out of people who are being hooligans, but that's not the way the world works anymore (sadly). Life sucks.

 

[EzLink]

I wasn't basing my comments on anything that people said in this thread but from my observation of people in RL.

Oh, I'm sorry then

 

[WretchedTruman]

If I was waiting for my bus and saw this shit, I'd take more than a few steps away, probably around a corner (just in case a gun came out) and do jack shit. No fucking way I'm helping anyone that I don't know unless it's an EXTREME case of violence (rape, violence vs. children) because it's not worth the risk. You can preach about morals and doing the right thing all you want, but I'd rather be considered morally bankrupt by some anonymous people on the internet than considered legally bankrupt (or a criminal). I'd love to jump into fights and beat the shit out of people who are being hooligans, but that's not the way the world works anymore (sadly). Life sucks.

multiple kicks to the head by three people her size. The girl will be lucky if she doesn't suffer any permanent damage, let alone being alive.

Fuck what others think; try living with yourself. Acknowledging how the world does and does not work is no excuse. You do what you can with what's given to you.

But if you believe that you could be satisfied with yourself by avoiding the situation, then go ahead. I suppose there's a place in the world for those kinds of people. Personally, I don't really want to know them.

 

[Pandaman]

purely an issue of semantics, but the "right thing" certainly isn't the correct phrase here.

sure it does, they did what was required inorder to attain the highest net good with the lowest risk.

 

[WretchedTruman]

sure it does, they did what was required inorder to attain the highest net good with the lowest risk.

nope. But again, semantics.

If taking a higher risk for oneself demands that you, say, position yourself in front of and around the woman so that she may feel some sense of security, then you damned well better do it, especially if the term itself is literally in your career label (ie, security).

We can bicker about the greater good all we like, but try telling that to that girl's mother if she ended up dead.

No, I don't believe it and, honestly, there's really nothing you can tell me that would convince me that their actions were justified. You certainly would have a point, but it's not something that adheres to my philosophies.

Call me dense or oblivious, but I'd gladly put myself in harm's way and face legal consequences in order to protect someone who needed it. No amount of fines would overshadow the shame I would have for myself knowing, without a doubt, that I could have saved a life and didn't.

It's all very one-dimensional, my viewpoint of it. I understand and acknowledge that. But, given the circumstances and what I witnessed with that video, there's simply no other conclusion I can come to without lying to you.

 

[The_Reckoning]

read OP, watched video. WTF, fuck all three of those "guards" I don't give a shit, if I was one of them, I would have jumped in. Fuck a job, what about morals, etc? Fuck you

 

[JDSN]

By the same logic, I dare you to be a bystander in this situation and do absolute nothing to help that girl. See if you can be proud of yourself a week, a month, a year later.

I know that we've got the armchair realists in here wallowing in their own thoughts of, "Well I know what the world is really like, so here ya go..."

But compassion sure as shit is a part of reality, too, and you better believe that I know the difference between what's ethical and what's logical. Sometimes the two don't always see eye-to-eye, but damned if I wont feel better about myself and others when I choose the former.

If these security officers were to be slammed on the stand, you "realists" would be outnumbered 5 to 1 by people who would want them criticized for their actions (or lack, thereof, in this case). It doesn't mean that you see between the lines or any of that bullshit.



purely an issue of semantics, but the "right thing" certainly isn't the correct phrase here.

Its not that im some bitter old misanthropic asshole, im not saying everyone would run away and that its the right thing to do, im just saying that people have #1 in their mind most of the times and that is allright, the security guard thinks about their job, the bystanders think about setting up a chain of events that can get themselves and more people hurt, everybody is thinking something different and everyone wishes there was some person that would fix what is obviously wrong, its not that the people in those kind ssituation become complete dicks, is just that when that part of your brain tells you to get the fuck outta there chances are; unless you are trained to channel those reflex to fight the menace, you will run and you will feel like shit but you will be glad you are alive.

You understimate the capacity that people have to live with that kind of stuff. Id like to say I would get in there and save the day from my menace-free enviroment, but it isnt the same.

 

[WretchedTruman]

You understimate the capacity that people have to live with that kind of stuff.

For the sake of the world, I certainly hope not.

 

[Pandaman]

nope. But again, semantics.

If taking a higher risk for oneself demands that you, say, position yourself in front of and around the woman so that she may feel some sense of security, then you damned well better do it, especially if the term itself is literally in your career label (ie, security).

for someone calling semantics, its funny that you're taking such a literal interpretation of a single section of a job title. security guards are not public servants, the security their job title is concerned with is their clients and even then its highly specific as to what he or she is hired to watch over. furthermore its a little disingenuous to break apart the name.
Noun

* S: watchman, watcher, security guard (a guard who keeps watch)
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=security guard

We can bicker about the greater good all we like, but try telling that to that girl's mother if she ended up dead.

okay? it seems foolish to base actions on the opinions of those who would be emotionally invested in the case.

No, I don't believe it and, honestly, there's really nothing you can tell me that would convince me that their actions were justified.

Justified? now that is semantics.

Call me dense or oblivious, but I'd gladly put myself in harm's way and face legal consequences in order to protect someone who needed it. No amount of fines would overshadow the shame I would have for myself knowing, without a doubt, that I could have saved a life and didn't.

being dense does not have much to do with it. i'd liken the difference as one between a problem gambler [superhero GAF], someone who weighs the odds [assess the situation, but take risks to save someone GAF] and someone who doesn't gamble at all. [help with the smallest chance of loss]

they're all equally 'right' points of view on their own merits, the only wrong point of view would be someone who refused aid in any sense.

 

[JDSN]

For the sake of the world, I certainly hope not.

For the sake of your sanity, be glad you do.

 

[WretchedTruman]

for someone calling semantics, its funny that you're taking such a literal interpretation of a single section of a job title. security guards are not public servants, the security their job title is concerned with is their clients and even then its highly specific as to what he or she is hired to watch over. furthermore its a little disingenuous to break apart the name.
Noun

* S: watchman, watcher, security guard (a guard who keeps watch)
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=security guard


okay? it seems foolish to base actions on the opinions of those who would be emotionally invested in the case.


Justified? now that is semantics.


being dense does not have much to do with it. i'd liken the difference as one between a problem gambler [superhero GAF], someone who weighs the odds [assess the situation, but take risks to save someone GAF] and someone who doesn't gamble at all. [help with the smallest chance of loss]

they're all equally 'right' points of view on their own merits, the only wrong point of view would be someone who refused aid in any sense.

I see your points. The gambling bit is a good analogy to the GAF mindset.

 

[J-Rzez]

Still amazing people just glaze over certain points here:

1. They're security guards, not the police. They are limited in their "powers" due to company policy, or what have you.
2. What if another member pulled out a gun or other weapon when they themselves don't have anything.
3. What if they're not trained and hurt one of the attackers, who turn around and sue the hell out of them, or press counter charges? And guess what, the company isn't going to support them. They're going to get sued as well as the guard separately.

You can blame society on their actions to be completely honest. You know how many "police brutality" or "excessive force" complaints are filed against police? Luckily, we have coverage due to the powers bestowed upon by state/fed gov. And you STILL have to walk on egg shells. Now imagine just being a security guard, not really trained to handle such a situation, not equipped neither. In this country, people put SO much pressure on LE or Security forces that it's starting to effect morals. They'd have to be afraid for their own lives, both from serious injury or death, and for their lives being screwed via lawsuit or jail. And imagine the impacts that could have upon their own family's who may very well depend on that income to get by, that a kid needs their father around.

I've seen this from security to LE experiences personally, and it's easy to spot people who have a lack of grasp on reality. And I would personally LOVE to see how many of you would actually "go kick their asses" if that really happened.

If you want tougher security or police, then society has to stop being so liberal. One in which now that grants a burglar money for falling through a skylight onto a kitchen knife left out on the counter in the kitchen of the house he was just breaking into. Pathetic.

 

[snap0212]

fuck :/ (delete, please)

 

[Funky Functionality]

correctness

Sadly, he's right on all counts.

 

[S1lent]

One in which now that grants a burglar money for falling through a skylight onto a kitchen knife left out on the counter in the kitchen of the house he was just breaking into. Pathetic.

This is a side note, but I'm pretty sure that's either just an urban legend or you're getting some facts wrong/leaving stuff out. But feel free to prove me wrong with a link.

Anyway, I believe I'm with WretchedTruman on this one. I'd like to think that if I was in the same situation, I would have stepped in to help and then dealt with the consequences later. We often criticize civilians for letting these sorts of things happen when they outnumber the assailants by a large margin. I don't think the security guard possibly losing his job is sufficient enough reason to not help a girl who is facing a possibly life threatening situation.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Still amazing people just glaze over certain points here:

1. They're security guards, not the police. They are limited in their "powers" due to company policy, or what have you.
2. What if another member pulled out a gun or other weapon when they themselves don't have anything.
3. What if they're not trained and hurt one of the attackers, who turn around and sue the hell out of them, or press counter charges? And guess what, the company isn't going to support them. They're going to get sued as well as the guard separately.

You can blame society on their actions to be completely honest. You know how many "police brutality" or "excessive force" complaints are filed against police? Luckily, we have coverage due to the powers bestowed upon by state/fed gov. And you STILL have to walk on egg shells. Now imagine just being a security guard, not really trained to handle such a situation, not equipped neither. In this country, people put SO much pressure on LE or Security forces that it's starting to effect morals. They'd have to be afraid for their own lives, both from serious injury or death, and for their lives being screwed via lawsuit or jail. And imagine the impacts that could have upon their own family's who may very well depend on that income to get by, that a kid needs their father around.

I've seen this from security to LE experiences personally, and it's easy to spot people who have a lack of grasp on reality. And I would personally LOVE to see how many of you would actually "go kick their asses" if that really happened.

If you want tougher security or police, then society has to stop being so liberal. One in which now that grants a burglar money for falling through a skylight onto a kitchen knife left out on the counter in the kitchen of the house he was just breaking into. Pathetic.

Well, this is not true. It's the litigious bullshit which is the root of the problem here. And like the poster above says, that story sounds like your typical urban myth. Either that or it's being totally taken out of context and lacking some damn important details.

 

[SmokyDave]

Well, this is not true. It's the litigious bullshit which is the root of the problem here. And like the poster above says, that story sounds like your typical urban myth. Either that or it's being totally taken out of context and lacking some damn important details.

It isn't true.

Or, is it?!

I have no idea. I remember something similar here in the UK but that wasn't the same thing. It's kind of a moot point as the perception is enough to stop people acting, not the reality. Personally I'd be less worried about being sued and more worried about being perforated. Googling "Killed for breaking up fight" is depressing as hell.

 

[itsinmyveins]

It isn't true.

Or, is it?!

I have no idea. I remember something similar here in the UK but that wasn't the same thing. It's kind of a moot point as the perception is enough to stop people acting, not the reality. Personally I'd be less worried about being sued and more worried about being perforated. Googling "Killed for breaking up fight" is depressing as hell.

You never run out of anecdotal stories, do you? :lol

So a 19-year old and a few of his friends stole a floodlight from a highschool, and while doing that he fell through a skylight that was painted over and was severly injured and became a quadriplegic. Then he sued the school and won. I don't know about you two things stick out to me.

1; We're not talking about breaking and enterings someone's house and it wasn't a hardened criminal who did this, which I'd say is what's almost implied when people use that original line of "criminal slipping and getting all your money!".

2; He sued the school, which I'd say play very much into the "overly litigious society". I'm not saying he should necessarily get money for this -- and I don't know enough about it to really say anything -- but the school should at least be held responsible for not dealing with this if it is a hazardous environment.

That bit about the trespasser I see no issue with, really. What they did there is taking steps to make sure that doesn't happen again, really.

 

[SmokyDave]

You never run out of anecdotal stories, do you? :lol

Dude, you don't know the half of it. I could say (in all honesty) that 15 years ago I fell through a skylight whilst breaking into an (abandoned) pub. We used to go there during school lunch to smoke and play darts on the dusty old dart board.

I don't know what to make of those skylight stories. Like you, the comment piqued my interest so I thought I'd do a quick google and see what came up. I doubt that any burglars breaking into private residences have successfully sued the home-owners.

Edit: I only mentioned the UK one because similar stories like that are usually where these myths spring from.

 

[davepoobond]

im sure if the security guards intervened, they would have been fired and sued by the people who were beating up the girl.

there would be nothing good to come of it for them...and thats whats sad about our society.

 

[jorma]

im sure if the security guards intervened, they would have been fired and sued by the people who were beating up the girl.

there would be nothing good to come of it for them...and thats whats sad about our society.

A theory already debunked in this very thread...and that's what's sad about gaf.

Also; the girl was stomping on another girls head. Repeatedly. How could she possibly win any sort of lawsuit? What would she need to be subjected to by anyone interfering in order to have any potential to win a lawsuit?

 

[Unknown One]

im sure if the security guards intervened, they would have been fired and sued by the people who were beating up the girl.

there would be nothing good to come of it for them...and thats whats sad about our society.

It would be pretty sad getting sued by holding those girls back and not doing any harm.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Pretty awful story. There is no clear right or wrong answer, but I'm saddened they just stood by and watched.

 

[Ducarmel]

http://www.olympiksecurity.com/docs/OSSIStatement2-10-10.pdf

the security company statement on the incident

 

[Dorrin]

Two Seattle police officers noticed the escalating situation and kicked the group out of the Macy's, then brought the girl and her friend to another exit, the victim said. She reported that she asked the officers for an escort to the bus tunnel, just below the department store, but the officers refused.

Everyone is focusing on the worthless security guards but what about this. Two police officers who witness the situation in the store refuse escort after she ASKS. WTF? Hell even if just one armed real officer walked her down it would have been enough. Why would they not escort a citizen if that person thought they were in danger especially if they had witnessed an event in the store?

 

[Medalion]

Because ignorance is contagious.

 

[dinazimmerman]

2; He sued the school, which I'd say play very much into the "overly litigious society".

If courts would stop ruling in favor of "overly litigious" people, our "overly litigious society" would probably disappear.

 

[itsinmyveins]

If courts would stop ruling in favor of "overly litigious" people, our "overly litigious society" would probably disappear.

Well, someone would probably sue the courts if they did that.

 

[adamsappel]

Everyone is focusing on the worthless security guards but what about this. Two police officers who witness the situation in the store refuse escort after she ASKS. WTF? Hell even if just one armed real officer walked her down it would have been enough. Why would they not escort a citizen if that person thought they were in danger especially if they had witnessed an event in the store?

Yes, I would like to hear J-Rzez's opinion on this. And Boogie, too, where is he?

 

[Dude Abides]

Hero-Age representing, no "Flight" in their "Flight or fight" reflex, not in these badass motherfuckers, No sir.

It takes a true hero to restrain a 15-year-old girl.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Hero-Age representing, no "Flight" in their "Flight or fight" reflex, not in these badass motherfuckers, No sir.

Riiiiiiiiighttttttttt. Against teenage girls, oh how badass that is huh?

 

[Dai Kaiju]

I bet you most of the people in this thread wouldn't have stepped in either.

This.

People are rarely if ever willing to get there ass beat for a stranger. Especially if they're outnumbered. Maybe if you were batman or something.

 

[S1lent]

This.

People are rarely if ever willing to get there ass beat for a stranger. Especially if they're outnumbered. Maybe if you were batman or something.

Well, if society's expectation is that you step in and help, then more people are going to do so. In other words, making excuses after the fact for the type of inaction we saw in the video does not help.

 

[Stinkles]

TWIST: "Victim" was arrested for beating up fifty year old woman with her friend. Has TWO assault cases on her.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011110550_tunnelvictim18m.html

Teen beaten in tunnel accused in two attacks

The 15-year-old girl who was beaten in Seattle's bus tunnel last month was accused of attacking two people last year, including a security guard.


Tami Cox, of Shoreline, says she was disturbed when she saw the now-infamous videotape of 15-year-old Aiesha Steward-Baker being kicked, punched and robbed in Seattle's bus tunnel.

Cox was herself the victim of an assault and robbery on May 23, when she was attacked on an Edmonds street by two girls.

One of the girls arrested and charged in the assault was Steward-Baker.

"The video of the [transit tunnel] beating is awful, but once I saw her on 'Good Morning America' it made me sick to think that she has the nerve to play the victim when a few months back she was doing that to somebody else, and that somebody else was me," said Cox, 50, an accountant at a law office.

The beating of Steward-Baker on Jan. 28, which occurred as transit security guards stood by and watched, has sparked a national outcry and prompted King County Metro and local law-enforcement agencies to revamp security in the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel. The teen also has accused Seattle police officers of failing to heed her requests for help in the hour leading up to the assault; she had claimed she was being threatened by the group of young people accused of robbing and beating her.

Four people have been charged in connection with the attack on Steward-Baker, including a 15-year-old girl.

Steward-Baker's Seattle lawyer, James Bible, said last week that he expects to file suit in connection with the transit-tunnel incident and is reviewing potential defendants, including King County, Seattle police, King County Metro and Olympic Security Services, the private security firm that contracts with Metro.

2 assault cases

While the images of Steward-Baker being kicked while she is on the ground are clearly troubling, prosecutors in two counties say she has been on the other end of assaults twice in the past year.

In addition to the alleged assault on Cox — in which Steward-Baker is expected to plead guilty in Snohomish County Juvenile Court on Monday — she also has been convicted of attacking a security guard at a Seattle market.

Bible, who is also head of the Seattle chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, did not return calls for comment Wednesday.

Cox said she was walking home from an Edmonds pub shortly after midnight on May 23 when two "nicely dressed and polite girls" stopped and asked her for the time. When Cox pulled out her cellphone to check, the girls jumped her. One put Cox in a head lock and yanked at her hair while the second girl punched her in the face and chest and grabbed her purse.



Within seconds, Cox said, the girls and two boys who stood nearby were gone. Determined not to be a victim, Cox ran after them.

"I was so mad," Cox recalled. "I have a 17-year-old son myself. When I see kids doing something they're not supposed to, I don't hesitate to direct them. They needed to be in trouble."

When the four teens ran down a dark alley, Cox stopped in her tracks and began to worry for her safety.

Cox said she then ran toward Highway 99, where she saw the lights of a police car. Cox told the Edmonds officer what happened and he replied that an eyewitness had already called 911. Another group of officers already had suspects in custody.

Cox identified the girls who attacked her. She also spotted her purse, which was sitting on the hood of a squad car.

While Cox wasn't hospitalized, she said that the fight left her with a sore neck, a bruised lip and chest and clumps of missing hair.

According to charging papers, Steward-Baker told police that she struck Cox, stole her purse and then dumped the bag in some shrubs.

Steward-Baker's public defender, Frederic Moll, said Wednesday that the girl plans to plead guilty to second-degree robbery Monday. However, he plans to seek a significantly reduced sentence because the teen suffers from an "abnormal" heart condition that can result in her death if she's under too much stress or becomes short of breath, according to plea paperwork.

The teen also suffers from anxiety attacks, the paperwork said.

While Moll plans to request a 30-day sentence for his client, Snohomish County Deputy Prosecutor John Stansell believes the teen should serve a standard-range sentence, which is 15 to 36 weeks in a juvenile facility. The second teenage girl who participated in the attack pleaded guilty in June to second-degree robbery and was sentenced to between 15 and 36 weeks in jail, Stansell said.

Stansell said he considered Steward-Baker's previous arrest in Seattle in his decision to seek the standard sentencing range.

In September, Steward-Baker was given a deferred sentence in King County Juvenile Court after she pleaded guilty to attempted second-degree robbery for attacking a security guard at Saar's Market Place, 9000 Rainier Ave. S., on Jan. 26, 2009, court charging papers said. Steward-Baker punched the man in the head after he stopped her friend for shoplifting an energy drink and a bag of chips.

Probation and curfew

In exchange for her guilty plea, Steward-Baker was ordered to serve four months of probation and a year of community service, attend counseling, have a nightly curfew and refrain from using drugs and alcohol or possessing weapons, court papers said. The time of the curfew wasn't immediately clear.

The Seattle Times generally does not name juveniles accused of crimes, but in recent days Steward-Baker has appeared in a news conference called by her attorney and appeared Monday on ABC's "Good Morning America." During her television appearance she recounted the transit-tunnel attack and the events leading up to it.

Four people were arrested in the attack: the 15-year-old alleged assailant (who is not being named because she has been charged in juvenile court); Latroy Hayman, 20; Tyrone Watson, 18; and Dominique Whitaker, 18.

The King County Sheriff's Office announced Wednesday that it is searching for a fifth person in connection with the transit-tunnel attack. The Sheriff's Office has identified a 17-year-old man named Quashawn Monroe as the fifth suspect in the beating. Monroe is also known by his nickname "Savage." The Times is naming Monroe because The Sheriff's Office considers him armed and dangerous.

"I don't feel good about what happened to her, but I'm not surprised," Cox said about the attack on Steward-Baker. "But there is karma. If you dabble in bad things, then bad things are going to come back to you. She is definitely not an angel."

 

[Medalion]

Oh snap

 

[Stinkles]

Oh snap

I wouldn't care, but she was playing the angel on TV all week, so everyone involved, cops, thugs, victim, security guards, can all kiss my ass.

 

[OJdaKiller]

This news still doesn't make the security guards any less repulsive as human beings.

 

[Stinkles]

This news still doesn't make the security guards any less repulsive as human beings.

Nope. Or the cops. And the kids who beat her up didn't know she was a shitbag, by all accounts. Everyone involved is still a douche.

 

[Alucrid]

First the genetic disease flu-shot person and now this. Jeez.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

"If you're a bank teller and you do something other than give them the money, you're going to get fired"

Shitty comparison is unbelievably shitty. It's nice to see that human decency gets thrown out the window for the sake of one's career.

 

[Medalion]

Someone in here was like they would headbutt everybody involved, even the girl who got attacked...

Damn who knew he was on to something? :lol

 

[siddx]

Seattle, doesn't surprise me. Especially in that damn tunnel of death. Seattle cops are awful and useless, I had one shrug and walk away when I tried to report that a guy pulled a fucking knife on me and took a swing at me with it.

The security guards are even worse, either they are violently abusive or completely useless.

Doesn't surprise me that the girl was a shithead, probably saw her wandering around with her friends when I lived there. Groups of teens, of all races, love to just hang out downtown and be douchebags. The worst are the rich white kids who ran away from home to "live on the street"...with daddy's debit card in their pocket of course. Three different friends got jumped by those dipshits.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Pathetic...

And these girls fights are frankly disgusting...