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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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squicken said:
Yea, that definitely is a possibility. Especially since Jon commented that Cotter Pyke left a known Slynt supporter in charge of Eastwatch when he left.
Crazy theory incoming, Jon's hand was burned by fire, Mellisandre does voodoo fire magic, Mellisandre intensified the pain and stiffness in Jon's hand through its fire burns. Sounds crazy, I know, but it does give a reason for the continuous mention of his stiff, burned hand
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
Mance Rayder proves that Melisandre uses deception to further her ends, as readers suspected for years was the case with the ritual with the leeches. I think she sent the letter to Jon to convince him to trust her. The letter was literally a self-fulfilling prophecy. She expected Jon to come running to her to heed her counsel, to abandon the mission to Hardhome and do whatever it is Mel thought he should do. She did not expect him to go to his men first and read the letter to them.
I think Jon will return in the next book but I will be absolutely disgusted if he does. If GRRM resurrects him it will be the jump the shark moment for the series.
QuiteWhittle
Member
He doesn't necessarily have to be resurrected to come back. Heck, there's no confirmation that he's even dead.Azrael said:
Finished Dance today. It started pretty slow, like most of Feast was, but eventually it started to flow really well and got pretty exciting. The cliffhangers at the end are pretty damn evil. Re-reading Feast just before Dance was released was definitely the right decision, since they flow right into each other in many ways.
So.... some thoughts about the plot developments:
- I'm really, really glad Quentyn died. Not that I dislike his character, but his entire mission was pretty much doomed, and if his retarded plan to steal the dragons did not result in him getting killed it would have been a pretty large leap of logic in regards to how the books handle grim reality and foolish plans with poor planning.
- The big reveal of Aegon definitely puts in to proper context the answers Varys gave throughout the series. He refused to specifically name who he served, and always answered that he served "the realm". So it seems that he and Illyrio both seem to believe that returning the Targs to the throne is the best solution for themselves and possibly everyone else. I wonder if there's any particular reason for that...
- It's interesting to see how Jon's plot arc comes to an end in Dance. It's actually something which has been brewing throughout the book, and in terms of tone it defintely felt off in many ways. He's a boy and a Lord Commander most of them never wanted. He is not particularly forthcoming to Stannis, he disrespects the queen, he doesn't care for Mel's religion or advice, he opens the Wall to more and more wildlings and spends the resource of the Watch to attempt to gather more, and he ignores the counsels of all his fellow brothers. It was just a matter of time before they turned against him. I doubt he's dead though, considering he was getting stabbed in the presence of a giant and other Wildlings he had won to his cause. This is probably the end for him as Lord Commander.
- I'm kinda disappointed that Tyrion and Victorian's arcs were basically just left hanging though. It would have made for a much stronger ending for the story across the sea if all the plot elements were tied up, instead of where they left off. It's going to be years before the next book, maybe decades. In fact, we might never get a another book!
- It's going to be interesting to see how the next book can bring more story context to the roles that Bran and Arya have in the overall narrative. It's interesting to see them being involved in totally isolated storylines involving completely unrelated elements of the world. Everyone else is pretty much drawn into the game of thrones now. Once Davos recovers Rickon, no doubt he will be used as a political pawn much like Sansa is. What role the Children of the Forest and the Faceless Men play in the end game is still largely in the air.
- Cersei in pain is so satisfying. Her chapters in Dance are way better than actually having her die. I hope she stays alive for much longer, experiencing all spectrums of pain... just like Theon! Lolololol.
So.... some thoughts about the plot developments:
- I'm really, really glad Quentyn died. Not that I dislike his character, but his entire mission was pretty much doomed, and if his retarded plan to steal the dragons did not result in him getting killed it would have been a pretty large leap of logic in regards to how the books handle grim reality and foolish plans with poor planning.
- The big reveal of Aegon definitely puts in to proper context the answers Varys gave throughout the series. He refused to specifically name who he served, and always answered that he served "the realm". So it seems that he and Illyrio both seem to believe that returning the Targs to the throne is the best solution for themselves and possibly everyone else. I wonder if there's any particular reason for that...
- It's interesting to see how Jon's plot arc comes to an end in Dance. It's actually something which has been brewing throughout the book, and in terms of tone it defintely felt off in many ways. He's a boy and a Lord Commander most of them never wanted. He is not particularly forthcoming to Stannis, he disrespects the queen, he doesn't care for Mel's religion or advice, he opens the Wall to more and more wildlings and spends the resource of the Watch to attempt to gather more, and he ignores the counsels of all his fellow brothers. It was just a matter of time before they turned against him. I doubt he's dead though, considering he was getting stabbed in the presence of a giant and other Wildlings he had won to his cause. This is probably the end for him as Lord Commander.
- I'm kinda disappointed that Tyrion and Victorian's arcs were basically just left hanging though. It would have made for a much stronger ending for the story across the sea if all the plot elements were tied up, instead of where they left off. It's going to be years before the next book, maybe decades. In fact, we might never get a another book!
- It's going to be interesting to see how the next book can bring more story context to the roles that Bran and Arya have in the overall narrative. It's interesting to see them being involved in totally isolated storylines involving completely unrelated elements of the world. Everyone else is pretty much drawn into the game of thrones now. Once Davos recovers Rickon, no doubt he will be used as a political pawn much like Sansa is. What role the Children of the Forest and the Faceless Men play in the end game is still largely in the air.
- Cersei in pain is so satisfying. Her chapters in Dance are way better than actually having her die. I hope she stays alive for much longer, experiencing all spectrums of pain... just like Theon! Lolololol.
GRRM doesn't leave this kinda shit at cliffhangers often. If someone is dead, it'll say he's dead. If Jon was dead we'd probably get Melisandre talking about it since that's about the only other PoV at the wall.Azrael said:
Jon is most likely alive, and Melisandre's presence basically guarantees it
Azrael said:
Jon returning would be the jump the shark moment for you? Jon, Jon Snow, the one strong male character that remains for young male readers to identify with after Ned and Robb are dead, you want that character to be dead and stay dead? You'd be disappointed if he returned?
I think we get much different things out of this series, you and I.
Fairly certain it was Ramsay who sent the letter. Who else knew that Theon was heading north with Jeyne? Who else knew that he has some sort of inane insecurity for bastards? Melisandre isn't that great with her visions.
Case in point "I KEEP ASKING TO SEE AZOR AHAI BUT I KEEP SEEING JON SNOW, OH RHLORR YOU TRICKSTER YOU!"
Case in point "I KEEP ASKING TO SEE AZOR AHAI BUT I KEEP SEEING JON SNOW, OH RHLORR YOU TRICKSTER YOU!"
Oh please, at this point Dany would be lucky to get by with even one dragon. Victarion is coming with his dragon binder horn and Drogon was scoping out Aegon all the way back in the Tyrion boat chapters with Griff.Puddles said:
Don't forget Melisandre's stone dragon.
Another thing, that one prophecy Dany got basically confirmed she'll run into Victarion, Jon Connington, Tyrion, and a bunch of others soon.
Lirlond said:
It has been months if not a year since they parted though. We really have no idea what has happened to Rickon since then. I reckon it'll be a pretty major plot point in the next book though, if it ever comes out. Rickon and Davos will probably both have POVs in Winds of Winter, which should make it either a major plot arc, or part of a major plot arc involving even more characters.
Jenga said:
Dany will arrive at Westeros with all 3 dragons. I don't see why she wouldn't. Everyone who wants the dragons don't really want the -dragons- themselves. They only see the dragons as a means to an alliance with her. Dany is the key here, not the beasts. Who she is, is far more important than the actual dragons. Her suitors want her because she is the key to their possible success in the game of thrones back in Westeros.
Also, there is no stone dragon. Mel just sucks at reading her fires.
Btw, I just thought of something regarding the situation in Winterfell. Kastark was supposed to betray Stannis. But Jon sent word to Deepwood by raven about the betrayal. If it arrived before the Braavosi banker reached Deepwood, then when he brings Theon and Jeyne to Stannis, his party would also be bringing word of that betrayal.
It doesn't seem likely that Stannis has actually fallen at Winterfell, or that Ramsey really has all he claims, but I do think the letter itself came from Ramsey. It's certainly a ploy to get Jon to leave the wall, but to what ends... remains to be seen I guess.
It doesn't seem likely that Stannis has actually fallen at Winterfell, or that Ramsey really has all he claims, but I do think the letter itself came from Ramsey. It's certainly a ploy to get Jon to leave the wall, but to what ends... remains to be seen I guess.
duckroll said:
If it is from Ramsey, its probably just to goad him to come south so that he can capture and flay him. As for Rickon, I sure hope he and Osha went to greywater watch. I really don't have a whole lot of interet in seeing Skagos and would much much much rather finally see whats up with Howland Reed
Sir Hamish
Member
duckroll said:
I think someone else in this thread or on something awful pointed out that the letter had the traditional pink seal, but lacked the Bolton sigil thing and was only signed by Ramsay instead of the other northern lords. Roose probably wouldn't let Ramsay send such an aggressive letter either, so I'm assuming Stannis defeated Roose outside Winterfell and Ramsay is on his own and wants to draw Jon down to the castle for some reason, or something
Gonaria said:
Howland Reed will never be seen in the series until the epilogue of the final book. On his deathbed he starts to think back to the Tower of Joy. Just it seems like we will learn anything about the event, his heart gives out and his last thoughts are of how much of a waste it is that no one will never know the truth.
duckroll said:Howland Reed will never be seen in the series until the epilogue of the final book. On his deathbed he starts to think back to the Tower of Joy. Just it seems like we will learn anything about the event, his heart gives out and his last thoughts are of how much of a waste it is that no one will never know the truth.
God, that would be horrible.
As for Stannis being defeated, I find that highly doubtful. Mostly because it would be pretty foolish to have that banker of braavos come all the way down there and then nothing come of it. As for Roose and the other lords being killed in the battle being the reason why Ramsey himself is writing the letter, that makes sense, but I really doubt that Roose would lead that battle against Stannis. If Roose is dead, Ramsey might have turned on him or was made into a pie
tino said:
I don't really think this is true at all. The politics of Westeros, and how it all ends is very much the backbone of the series. The Others are more or less a plot device which is much like a natural disaster. They are the lingering danger that threatens to destroy the entire realm if the people are too divided to stand together against them.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Azrael said:
I'd say it's the opposite. If he does die, it'll be the jump shark moment. Too much buildup and foreshadowing not to. Plus the moments leading up to his death are weak. The convienient way he got rid of Ghost. Oh hey, there's this warg and boar here all of a sudden, that shit aggitates Ghost a lot better lock him up. The entire prologue serves as a point to show Jon living at least in some way. There are too many outs for him with Ghost still alive and Melisandre around. It seems like it's more shocking for the sake of shock than anything if he were to die. One of the books greatest and most talked about mysteries (both in and out of the text) is who his mother is. What's the point of that if he's dead? It'll either be cleared up in the first Jon or Melisandre next book (like Arya's blindness) or he'll be come at the very end of the book once the Wall is fucked.
And Mel couldn't have written the letter, she has no way of knowing about Reek. She's already fucked up a few readings so I don't believe it's something she'd actually see in her fire (unless she views an image of a broken man with stink lines coming off of him). But she could have instructed Mance to do something like that and he could have written it.
Looking at how much happened in ASOS, I am sure that GRRM can finish up the current plot arcs in two 1000 page books. Especially if they are as densely packed with plot as ASOS was. He will need to start reigning in some of his storylines starting with TWOW though. Everything in ESSOS will need to wrap up in the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the next book, leaving a book and a half to focus exclusively on Westeros.
Eteric Rice
Member
Does anyone think that Jon dying, even temporarily, relieves him of his oath to the watch? I'm pretty sure Melis is going to revive him, but if he dies, even for a time, wouldn't his watch technically be done?
Would be a hell of a loop hole in that contract. Lol.
Would be a hell of a loop hole in that contract. Lol.
Eteric Rice said:
It's not really a contract to anyone other than yourself, and if Jon wanted to put an end to it, he would have accepted Stannis' offer. Jon will always be a man of the Night's Watch as long as he is alive, unless he is driven out. If given a choice, he will always make the honorable one. It's a personal decision, and I don't see how dying and coming back will change that as long as he's the same person.
Some other thoughts:
I think the following chapters/POVs should not have been in this book at all and hurt the novel's momentum:
Cersei (2 wasted chapters), Jamie (lifted a siege of some lesser lord, this whole chapter was particularly pointless and could have been left out period), Areo Hotah, Arya (while her 2 or 3 chapters were good, they didn't really fit in with the rest of the book), and Victarion (his chapters were also pretty boss).
The strongest part of this book was by far the happenings in the North. Theon had the best character arc in the book by far. It was actually pretty sad that he finally realized that he just wanted to be a Stark, same as Lady Dustin. I wonder if Ned's brother is the one that actually knocked up Ashara Dayne, the way he's painted in the crypts is in a pretty negative light. The Bolton's are fun villains. I think Roose is actually more similar to Tywin Lannister, a pragmatist of sorts. He would be more like lawful evil. He's a much more interesting villain than his bastard son. Ramsey on the other-hand would be chaotic evil. He's a complete psychopath. Ramsay is the vehicle and wish fulfillment of GURM's pedo rape torture fantasies. I loved Davos 3&4. Fat Manderly actually turns out to be awesome as well. Feeding up Frey pie at the wedding in Winterfell as well as requesting the Rat Cook. THE NORTH REMEMBERS. I like how we can finally see the fallout of the Red Wedding. It's just another sign of how much loyalty the Stark's have in the North. I know many people like to poo-poo Ned Star and his honor, but by that same token I think his subjects in the North by whole are much more loyal to his house and want to see Winterfell restored to the Starks. It will be awesome when Jon, Rickon, or Sansa reclaim Winterfell. Stannis' problems on the march to Winterfell were very Napoleon-esque. I also wonder what the fallout there will be. Did Jon send word of the Karstark betrayal to Stannis, or better yet did his warning arrive on time? Will the Manderly's, Umber's, and other Northmen cut down the Frey's and Boltons?
It's a shame GURM had Tyrion hook up with the other Dwarf Penny, if the Dany chapters did not exist, the slave/mummer chapters of Tyrion would be the worst parts of the novel. I guess my only complaint is that the book has a lot of fat/filler that could have been better served either getting Dany in a better position to get the fuck out of Mereen or spent more time up North.
I think the following chapters/POVs should not have been in this book at all and hurt the novel's momentum:
Cersei (2 wasted chapters), Jamie (lifted a siege of some lesser lord, this whole chapter was particularly pointless and could have been left out period), Areo Hotah, Arya (while her 2 or 3 chapters were good, they didn't really fit in with the rest of the book), and Victarion (his chapters were also pretty boss).
The strongest part of this book was by far the happenings in the North. Theon had the best character arc in the book by far. It was actually pretty sad that he finally realized that he just wanted to be a Stark, same as Lady Dustin. I wonder if Ned's brother is the one that actually knocked up Ashara Dayne, the way he's painted in the crypts is in a pretty negative light. The Bolton's are fun villains. I think Roose is actually more similar to Tywin Lannister, a pragmatist of sorts. He would be more like lawful evil. He's a much more interesting villain than his bastard son. Ramsey on the other-hand would be chaotic evil. He's a complete psychopath. Ramsay is the vehicle and wish fulfillment of GURM's pedo rape torture fantasies. I loved Davos 3&4. Fat Manderly actually turns out to be awesome as well. Feeding up Frey pie at the wedding in Winterfell as well as requesting the Rat Cook. THE NORTH REMEMBERS. I like how we can finally see the fallout of the Red Wedding. It's just another sign of how much loyalty the Stark's have in the North. I know many people like to poo-poo Ned Star and his honor, but by that same token I think his subjects in the North by whole are much more loyal to his house and want to see Winterfell restored to the Starks. It will be awesome when Jon, Rickon, or Sansa reclaim Winterfell. Stannis' problems on the march to Winterfell were very Napoleon-esque. I also wonder what the fallout there will be. Did Jon send word of the Karstark betrayal to Stannis, or better yet did his warning arrive on time? Will the Manderly's, Umber's, and other Northmen cut down the Frey's and Boltons?
It's a shame GURM had Tyrion hook up with the other Dwarf Penny, if the Dany chapters did not exist, the slave/mummer chapters of Tyrion would be the worst parts of the novel. I guess my only complaint is that the book has a lot of fat/filler that could have been better served either getting Dany in a better position to get the fuck out of Mereen or spent more time up North.
Gonaria said:
Speaking of Howland, it just hit me this morning that The Knight of the Laughing Tree (the small knight with ill-fitting armor from Meera's tale of the Harrenhal tourney), who defended Reed's honor, was Lyanna.
Probably a "duh" moment for a lot of readers, but it finally clicked with me after thinking about Bran's dream, in which young Lyanna was fighting like Arya.
Rhaegar was tasked with chasing down and unmasking the knight, and even though the official word is that he never did, I think he might have...
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Someone in this thread was saying Howland could possibly be Jojen. I don't remember the details of the theory.
ZephyrFate
Banned
That's your problem. Brienne's chapters were awesome (worldbuilding) and Meereen's were great (political catch-22s everywhere).tino said:
ZephyrFate said:
Opinions are funny things, but you seem to be in the minority that think Brienne POVs and Dany's royal fuckup of Mereen were awesome.
And the best part of GURM's solution to the Mereneese knot wasn't even a solution. It's like he made a bigger knot of it trying to untangle the mess he made.
ZephyrFate
Banned
The funny part is that that's not even true. There are a lot of people who like Brienne's chapters, and people are realizing that there's cool stuff in the Meereen chapters as well.yacobod said:
Opinions are funny things, we can make sweeping generalizations with them.
I liked Brienne's chapters, but (for whatever reason) I'm a sucker for any chapters when people are traveling around Westeros and I get to look at the map and see where they are, where they've been, how far they are from their next destination, and where everyone else who matters currently is. I'm always flipping back to the damn maps.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I don't understand why readers just couldn't accept that Brienne, as a character, isn't the smartest tool in the shed and that she's basically walking dramatic irony (we knew she was going the wrong way). What she does provide is a travelogue of Westeros that populates the ground level with common folk, a perspective we literally NEVER see in the novels.Tacitus_ said:
(of course I have said this same thing many times so I think I'm done defending Brienne)
Finished the book yesterday. I've slept on it, now here are my thoughts:
Too many POVs slowed plot progression to a crawl. It could have been the best book in the series if it were longer or tighter and we've gotten some resolutions. With Meereen in particular. Now it's just a good book with some great passages. But it feels unfinished. Better than AFFC, but only barely. Not a disappointment, but also not the awesomefest I was expecting either.
I'll break some things down, first of all:
Meereen
Martin was struggling with this, he blogged about it and it's obvious when reading it. The Essos chapters are a mixed bunch. Quaithe's phrophecy was pretty cool, but very little came of it. Like mentioned before, only the weakest suitor actually reached her, and he fizzled out. I totally hated all those horrible Ghiscari names and had trouble keeping them apart. I laughed out loud when Arch joked about them. All in all, not what I was expecting at all. Between Tyrion, Quentin, Victarion, Griff & The Golden Company it seemed like total mayhem would break loose. But only towards the end things started moving and the conclusion was cut.
Tyrion in particular was wasted. It was painful how he remarked that poisoning the wells would kill off the siege within weeks. He probably would have made short work of the Meereenese schemers as well. Dany needed him badly, but he was busy jousting.
Like I said, there was good stuff. I liked all the sellswords, especially Brown Ben Plumm. Barristan continued being a boss. Griff's gang and Tyrion's river journey were pretty cool. Quentin stopped being cautious and promptly got toasted. Dany's last chapter.
Reek
The highpoint of the book is the absolute lowest point in Theon's life. It was painful to read, but good. I always had a soft spot for Theon, even though he was always a sack of shit. But man oh man, what he went through was grotesque. I had to put the book down when he mentioned Ramsey took fingers toes and some little thing. I was half convinced I misunderstood, but there were plenty of remarks that he wasn't even a man anymore. Theon crying after Ramsey said he would take another finger, for no real reason, was heartwrenching. Reek, it rhymes with freak D:
Martin held nothing back with Ramsey, the man is pure evil. Roose Bolton seems like a decent guy in comparison.
The Wall
Yeah, Jon dropped the ball. He sent his friends away on business and distanced himself from men who may have been loyal to him otherwise. He mostly ignored Melisandre, even though he knew she had at least some powers. And he pulled a Robb by leaving his wolf behind. The coup was justifiable, but there will be a massive fallout. Nice job Bowen. Hopefully Tormund will still go to Hardhome, what was happening there, it sounded horrible. Melisandre seems surprisingly insecure. I already guessed that here powers were somewhat limited, it was nice to see this confirmed, but I still wonder why Martin bothered with the POV in this book.
King's Landing
Robert Strong, lol. And that pious armor of his. Qyburn is such an evil bastard. And farewell poor Kevan, I knew the guy was going to kick the bucket when it became clear he was doing a great job smoothing out Cersei's blundering. I half suspected Cersei might do it, but obviously she would have waited until after her trial. The return of Varys was a bit of a shock. But it confirmed that Tywin's murder was a setup and if Tyrion had not taken the bait (and burned that bridge), Varys would have done the deed himself.
Curious odds and ends
Aegon, also known as the Mummer's Dragon. Yeah, Varys claims that he's the little prince, swapped before the sack of KL, but I don't buy it. Babies look alike, but that door swings both ways. Replacing the baby is harder than claiming some Valyrian-stock kid is Aegon and yields the same results. And Illyro was curiously sentimental about the kid, as was Varys. Chances are, the boy is Illyro's own son, a point was made that he was handsome in his youth. That would finally give him and Varys a good motive for all the mischief they've pulled
Jon is dead. Had to happen. He's almost certainly The Prince Who Was Promised and needs to be reborn. So he's dead ( for now ) and will be kept in one of the ice cells. Bran actually saw a glimpse of this back in his third chapter in GoT(!)
Greyscale. Ok, what is up with that? Connington is afflicted, but it will take so long to become dibilitating it probably doesn't matter. But some types are more dangerous than others. Val is terrified of Shireen and also, Patchface scares Melisandre? That's just bizarre. It feels like we're missing a piece of the puzzle here.
The Perfumed Seneschal. Martin was being tricksy here, it was simply Dany's seneschal all along. The Stinky Steward was a red herring. Nasty, tricksy Martin!
The Sneaky North Resistance. I though Wyman Manderly was going to poison the lot, including himself, but nothing happened so I forgot all about it. But then I was reminded that Manderly mentioned the Rat Cook. OMG. And also, Whoresbane Umber studied at the Citadel, but apparently he can't write his own name? So he's on some secret Umber mission instead?
Tying into this, there's Ramsey's peculiar letter. Assuming it's really Ramsey's letter, he obviously didn't catch Theon and Jeyne. He probably caught at least some of the spearwives, he might have captured Mance as well. But things don't add up. No mention of Roose Bolton, who is supposed to be in command and nothing if not careful. The situation at Winterfell was quickly reaching a boiling point and we know they were in no shape to ride three days and defeat Stannis, nor was Stannis about to storm Winterfell. The Karstark betrayal would likely have failed as well. And what would Ramsey hope to accomplish with that letter?
There's also the chance that it is a scheme by Mance to get a wildling army at Winterfell to help them out. He couldn't just ask Jon this, so maybe he tried to trick him into helping? Seems a bit of a longshot though, neither option seems any good :/
Yeah, long post
Too many POVs slowed plot progression to a crawl. It could have been the best book in the series if it were longer or tighter and we've gotten some resolutions. With Meereen in particular. Now it's just a good book with some great passages. But it feels unfinished. Better than AFFC, but only barely. Not a disappointment, but also not the awesomefest I was expecting either.
I'll break some things down, first of all:
Meereen
Martin was struggling with this, he blogged about it and it's obvious when reading it. The Essos chapters are a mixed bunch. Quaithe's phrophecy was pretty cool, but very little came of it. Like mentioned before, only the weakest suitor actually reached her, and he fizzled out. I totally hated all those horrible Ghiscari names and had trouble keeping them apart. I laughed out loud when Arch joked about them. All in all, not what I was expecting at all. Between Tyrion, Quentin, Victarion, Griff & The Golden Company it seemed like total mayhem would break loose. But only towards the end things started moving and the conclusion was cut.
Tyrion in particular was wasted. It was painful how he remarked that poisoning the wells would kill off the siege within weeks. He probably would have made short work of the Meereenese schemers as well. Dany needed him badly, but he was busy jousting.
Like I said, there was good stuff. I liked all the sellswords, especially Brown Ben Plumm. Barristan continued being a boss. Griff's gang and Tyrion's river journey were pretty cool. Quentin stopped being cautious and promptly got toasted. Dany's last chapter.
Reek
The highpoint of the book is the absolute lowest point in Theon's life. It was painful to read, but good. I always had a soft spot for Theon, even though he was always a sack of shit. But man oh man, what he went through was grotesque. I had to put the book down when he mentioned Ramsey took fingers toes and some little thing. I was half convinced I misunderstood, but there were plenty of remarks that he wasn't even a man anymore. Theon crying after Ramsey said he would take another finger, for no real reason, was heartwrenching. Reek, it rhymes with freak D:
Martin held nothing back with Ramsey, the man is pure evil. Roose Bolton seems like a decent guy in comparison.
The Wall
Yeah, Jon dropped the ball. He sent his friends away on business and distanced himself from men who may have been loyal to him otherwise. He mostly ignored Melisandre, even though he knew she had at least some powers. And he pulled a Robb by leaving his wolf behind. The coup was justifiable, but there will be a massive fallout. Nice job Bowen. Hopefully Tormund will still go to Hardhome, what was happening there, it sounded horrible. Melisandre seems surprisingly insecure. I already guessed that here powers were somewhat limited, it was nice to see this confirmed, but I still wonder why Martin bothered with the POV in this book.
King's Landing
Robert Strong, lol. And that pious armor of his. Qyburn is such an evil bastard. And farewell poor Kevan, I knew the guy was going to kick the bucket when it became clear he was doing a great job smoothing out Cersei's blundering. I half suspected Cersei might do it, but obviously she would have waited until after her trial. The return of Varys was a bit of a shock. But it confirmed that Tywin's murder was a setup and if Tyrion had not taken the bait (and burned that bridge), Varys would have done the deed himself.
Curious odds and ends
Aegon, also known as the Mummer's Dragon. Yeah, Varys claims that he's the little prince, swapped before the sack of KL, but I don't buy it. Babies look alike, but that door swings both ways. Replacing the baby is harder than claiming some Valyrian-stock kid is Aegon and yields the same results. And Illyro was curiously sentimental about the kid, as was Varys. Chances are, the boy is Illyro's own son, a point was made that he was handsome in his youth. That would finally give him and Varys a good motive for all the mischief they've pulled
Jon is dead. Had to happen. He's almost certainly The Prince Who Was Promised and needs to be reborn. So he's dead ( for now ) and will be kept in one of the ice cells. Bran actually saw a glimpse of this back in his third chapter in GoT(!)
Greyscale. Ok, what is up with that? Connington is afflicted, but it will take so long to become dibilitating it probably doesn't matter. But some types are more dangerous than others. Val is terrified of Shireen and also, Patchface scares Melisandre? That's just bizarre. It feels like we're missing a piece of the puzzle here.
The Perfumed Seneschal. Martin was being tricksy here, it was simply Dany's seneschal all along. The Stinky Steward was a red herring. Nasty, tricksy Martin!
The Sneaky North Resistance. I though Wyman Manderly was going to poison the lot, including himself, but nothing happened so I forgot all about it. But then I was reminded that Manderly mentioned the Rat Cook. OMG. And also, Whoresbane Umber studied at the Citadel, but apparently he can't write his own name? So he's on some secret Umber mission instead?
Tying into this, there's Ramsey's peculiar letter. Assuming it's really Ramsey's letter, he obviously didn't catch Theon and Jeyne. He probably caught at least some of the spearwives, he might have captured Mance as well. But things don't add up. No mention of Roose Bolton, who is supposed to be in command and nothing if not careful. The situation at Winterfell was quickly reaching a boiling point and we know they were in no shape to ride three days and defeat Stannis, nor was Stannis about to storm Winterfell. The Karstark betrayal would likely have failed as well. And what would Ramsey hope to accomplish with that letter?
There's also the chance that it is a scheme by Mance to get a wildling army at Winterfell to help them out. He couldn't just ask Jon this, so maybe he tried to trick him into helping? Seems a bit of a longshot though, neither option seems any good :/
Yeah, long post
ZephyrFate
Banned
I think it sets up a hilarious scene in the next book with Jaime getting fucked over by Catelynflyover said:
(again)
^^^^ Because Westeros is a fascinating world and Brienne helped show us that it isn't just the high lords and ladies who can impress.
ZephyrFate said:
Her chapters after she bumped into the Brotherhood Without banners were fine because that actually developed into something. Her going into the smugglers cove was doomed to fail from the start and all we got from that was Brienne getting bloodied. Brienne is just so boring alone.
This had to be the most annoying part of the whole situation there. The very first chapter had Dany and all discussing how to solve these problems. In open combat, they would crush them, but as long as they played shadow games. The Unsuilled were useless and most under he command had no experience with it. All while Dany flounder around about what she wanted to do.CrunchyB said:
And we have Tyrion in a single walk through their camp, solve the problem effortlessly. The two people who you've been waiting 11 years to meet, don't. They delay it till the next book. >_<
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
flyover said:
Patchface is proof that the drowned god is bullshit. Then again he does have a bit of clairvoyance.
yacobod said:
Ha, didn't think of that. I'm glad he lived. Him and Barristan (and Brown Ben Plumm) are the only interesting characters in Dany's storyline. Well, the Unsullied are kind of cool too.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
Ya Brown Ben Plumm is boss, my favorite sellsword besides Bronn in the series thus far. Should be fun when Plumm/Tyrion bring the 2nd Sons back over to Dany in the next book.
I'd love if GURM ever put out a short story of Belwas and Barristan's journey to Dany.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Yeah but to be fair anyone could have been the Harpy, EVERYONE wanted to either kill her or fuck her and then kill her, everyone has a knife at her throat. I don't blame her.yacobod said:
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