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[Coldsnap]

welp

 

[flyover]

Library just demanded back my copy of Game of Thrones since It was over due and people were on a waiting list. What sucks is I was just getting into it because classes ended. How is the kindle verison?

Kindle version is good. But, yeah, you are in the unmarked spoilers thread. Beware! I mean, I guess you can just skip the books and stick around here to see what happens.

 

[Jenga]

Mance knew from Jon's time as a wilding. And Melly has control of Mance. Mance has been observing Ramsay for weeks as Abel, and could easily ape his tone in a letter. Or things have gone to hell at Winterfell and Mance has Ramsay as a captive.

Did they ever elaborate just how much control melisandre had over mance?

 

[Jenga]

I think Roose is actually more similar to Tywin Lannister, a pragmatist of sorts. He would be more like lawful evil. He's a much more interesting villain than his bastard son. Ramsey on the other-hand would be chaotic evil. He's a complete psychopath. Ramsay is the vehicle and wish fulfillment of GURM's pedo rape torture fantasies.

I think Roose is a just a northern and slightly more harsher version of Tywin. Which, of course, is harsh as fuck, but he did say his own personal manner of rule is peace for his people.

 

[QueenOfThorns]

Some rambling thoughts.

It was good. I know a lot of people thought Feast was disappointing, but reading it along side this.. makes it better, overall. That's also the biggest flaw in this book. It should have been out a long time ago, so that Feast was still fresh in people's minds. Arya had a pathetic two chapters, making her and Sansa the worst sufferers of the cancelled time skip. Arya got 3 chapters in Feast, and 2 in Dance. It's nice that she's in both books, but having loads of Jon/Tyrion/Dany chapters make it kind of worth the wait for them. Tyrion had the weakest chapters in the book, oddly. It's never bad, but it all feels kind of wasted when he makes it all that way to not meet Dany. And good lord, Dany. Her chapters were also a chore to get through. Until the fighting ring chapter, it just felt frustrating to read. (The fighting ring chapter is AWESOME, by the way.) George has seemed to be overly inspired by LOST since Feast, and this book likewise ends in huge cliffhangers for most of the characters. Many false deaths.

This book was weird to read, Arya being my favorite character. In 2/3ds of the book, she's mentioned a dozen time. Bran mistakes a child of the forest for her, sadisticfacebastardperson believes he's marrying her, even Melisandre mistakes a girl she sees in a vision for her, causing Jon to want to save her. Lots of girls who look like Arya stark, or pretend to be her. It's only Arya herself who doesn't want anything to do with her. Her chapters were good, though I see no reason they couldn't have been included in Feast. I hope in the next books she gets a heavy focus, because right now it's hard to say what weight she'll have on the overall plot, if any.

As it is, I can't see the books ending soon. 7 is far too few, with the pace GRRM in going. Every character seems to be stuck in a place where it's impossible for things to get rolling before they're out of it. I think abandoning the time skip may have done more harm than good. I really liked Dance, and hopefully The Winds Of Winter will be out a lot sooner than 6 years. (GRRM has already posted on his blog that he can't begin the next book until next year. How awful it is to have to wait 11 years for something you can consume in two days.) The wait is the only thing that can hurt this book. It's good, but people wanting shit to start hitting the fan in WE'RE GETTING TO THE ENDING ways will be disappointed


Edit: Anyone else notice the editing mistake in the first Bran chapter? Bran says that Arya is his little sister, not his older.

 

[Lirlond]

Patchface scares me, too.

He skipped daintily across the thread, his antlers jingling with every step,

"Under the sea, the Kraken binds the Dragon.

I know, I know, I knoooow."

 

[jett]

So what's going on with Bran, is he going to become king of the big bad? And Coldhands is totally Benjen Stark, isn't he.

 

[yacobod]

So what's going on with Bran, is he going to become king of the big bad? And Coldhands is totally Benjen Stark, isn't he.

I don't think Coldhands is Benjen Stark. If Coldhands was Benjen Stark, why would he conceal his identity to Bran? Bran & Co. were suspicious and wary of him, he could of eased their suspicions by revealing himself to be Bran's uncle.

and I don't think Bloodraven or Bran's future is evil. He's going to become an all seeing eye that may be able to warg and influence situations. I still think Bran might end up warging into one of the 3 remaining dragons. Bloodraven/the 3 eyed crow said he was going to fly afterall, and warging into a raven or hawk seems anticlimactic to that prophecy/dream.

 

[Zabka]

Bran is Oracle and the trees are his internet.

 

[Basileus777]

I don't think Coldhands is Benjen Stark. If Coldhands was Benjen Stark, why would he conceal his identity to Bran? Bran & Co. were suspicious and wary of him, he could of eased their suspicions by revealing himself to be Bran's uncle.

Coldhands is some kind of dead wight, I don't think revealing that he was Bran's zombie uncle would have removed the wariness and suspiciousness.

 

[jett]

Melisandre saw Bran and Tree-guy in her fires, she interpreted it first as them being THE BIG BAD, and then as just minions of the "other". Wonder what will Bran's purpose be to the story...sigh there's so much useless crap going on in these books I wish ADWD had focused more on the stuff that matters.

 

[Ænima]

I really believe that Dance and Feast could have functioned as one book. There isn't a major character who's chapters could not have been cut in half.

 

[tino]

So far the best gods are the red god and the "old" tree god. The "Seven" is useless and even the drawn god works once in a while.

 

[Jenga]

I think it'd be bad ass if the old tree guy and Bran really are a part of the Other god associated with being an enemy of R'hllor.

And then it turns out the Others aren't actually a part of the God of Darkness and Bran and the old guy are the last heralds of the old tree gods to stave off the others whom the disciples of R'hllor interpret to be the minions of the Other god and the old gods.

The "Seven" is useless and even the drawn god works once in a while.

well we did see some seven action in davos

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The drowned gods greatest power is CPR.

 

[Azrael]

I'd say it's the opposite. If he does die, it'll be the jump shark moment.

I revise what I said in my previous post, which I wrote immediately after reading the last Jon chapter and not having time to fully absorb it. I think if you read the book carefully it's clear what actually happened to Jon.

The big one is the prologue. When I first read the prologue, I thought it was a well-written and exciting chapter, but superfluous. All of the previous prologue chapters have had some significance. In AGoT it introduced the Others, ACoK Stannis' court and the return of magic to the world the birth of dragons heralded, in ASoS the Others and Night's Watch finally meet in battle, and AFfC ties in with the final Sam chapter. But the Varamyr chapter on the face of it didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know.

I think the prologue is there to tell us that Jon Snow is dead, but his spirit remains in Ghost. How a direwolf could be Azor Ahai I have no idea, but that's my belief. I'd guess in The Winds of Winter Ghost/Jon will be haunting Winterfell and slaughtering Ramsay's girls one by one.

 

[Basileus777]

I think the prologue is there to tell us that Jon Snow is dead, but his spirit remains in Ghost. How a direwolf could be Azor Ahai I have no idea, but that's my belief. I'd guess in The Winds of Winter Ghost/Jon will be haunting Winterfell and slaughtering Ramsay's girls one by one.

Mel has a vision of a man turning into a wolf and then back into a man again. I'm guessing Jon lives on in Ghost until Mel revives his body and he moves back.

 

[q_q]

I really believe that Dance and Feast could have functioned as one book. There isn't a major character who's chapters could not have been cut in half.

Bran had the perfect number of chapters. I even would have preferred a few more, even if he's just glimpsing the past of Westeros through the Weirwoods. But I agree that you could have cut Tyrion's and Jon's chapters in half, threw out Quentyn's POVs, cut the Iron Islands POVs except for Asha and you could have easily cut the two books down to one.

I don't think Coldhands is Benjen Stark. If Coldhands was Benjen Stark, why would he conceal his identity to Bran? Bran & Co. were suspicious and wary of him, he could of eased their suspicions by revealing himself to be Bran's uncle.

and I don't think Bloodraven or Bran's future is evil. He's going to become an all seeing eye that may be able to warg and influence situations. I still think Bran might end up warging into one of the 3 remaining dragons. Bloodraven/the 3 eyed crow said he was going to fly afterall, and warging into a raven or hawk seems anticlimactic to that prophecy/dream.

I'm inclined to agree with you but the whole talk about Bran flying could be metaphorical as in he will be mastering his third eye and "fly" beyond the confines of his physical body.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I revise what I said in my previous post, which I wrote immediately after reading the last Jon chapter and not having time to fully absorb it. I think if you read the book carefully it's clear what actually happened to Jon.

The big one is the prologue. When I first read the prologue, I thought it was a well-written and exciting chapter, but superfluous. All of the previous prologue chapters have had some significance. In AGoT it introduced the Others, ACoK Stannis' court and the return of magic to the world the birth of dragons heralded, in ASoS the Others and Night's Watch finally meet in battle, and AFfC ties in with the final Sam chapter. But the Varamyr chapter on the face of it didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know.

I think the prologue is there to tell us that Jon Snow is dead, but his spirit remains in Ghost. How a direwolf could be Azor Ahai I have no idea, but that's my belief. I'd guess in The Winds of Winter Ghost/Jon will be haunting Winterfell and slaughtering Ramsay's girls one by one.

There's a Melisandre vision where she's looking at Jon in the fires and it she seems him become a wolf and then a man again. When I first read this I thought it was just meant to show his warging ability. But I think it's meant to show his death, then him merging with Ghost and then becoming a man again. What will be interesting is how he comes back and in what form. I don't think he'll return 100% as he was. Maybe a Coldhands like figure. Alive, but not entirely normal or human.

edit: beat. I'm figuring Jon won't be back until the very end the next book after a journey by Mel, Tormund, Val, Wun Wun and Jon/Ghost.

 

[suzu]

So I liked Jon, Bran, Theon, Arya, and Barristan's chapters. I pretty much hated most of Tyrion's travels and nearly all of Dany's chapters except for the last 2. Those POVs felt like they bogged down much of the book. Could have done without some of the Dorne prince's (saw his death coming as soon as he was introduced) too. Mereen was so fucking boring until Barristan got a POV.

I hope Bran isn't going to be stuck as a tree-man (also please don't try to bone girls as Hodor lol).
I hope Jon isn't going to be warg'd forever in Ghost or whoever.
I think Arya won't ever finish her training before she runs off.
I hope Theon redeems himself in an awesome way (before he eventually dies).
Connington is totally gay for Rhaegar.

 

[Lirlond]

Connington is totally gay for Rhaegar.

I failed the father, I must not fail the son!

 

[tino]

well we did see some seven action in davos

Really? Where?

 

[elrechazado]

Really? Where?

On the blackwater?

 

[yacobod]

I'm figuring Jon won't be back until the very end the next book after a journey by Mel, Tormund, Val, Wun Wun and Jon/Ghost.

I don't see why they couldn't bring back Jon asap. He was killed at or near Castle Black, Melisandre was seen leaving that hall where he was giving the speech concerning Bolton at Winterfell. Ghost is nearby to warg into if need be, and he's surrounded by freemen allies. If GURM makes us slough through 800-900 pages before a Jon reveal in AWOW I'm going to be pissed.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I don't see why they couldn't bring back Jon asap. He was killed at or near Castle Black, Melisandre was seen leaving that hall where he was giving the speech concerning Bolton at Winterfell. Ghost is nearby to warg into if need be, and he's surrounded by freemen allies. If GURM makes us slough through 800-900 pages before a Jon reveal in AWOW I'm going to be pissed.

Yeah, I could also see it being a one chapter dealy, like Arya's blindness.

 

[elrechazado]

I don't see why they couldn't bring back Jon asap. He was killed at or near Castle Black, Melisandre was seen leaving that hall where he was giving the speech concerning Bolton at Winterfell. Ghost is nearby to warg into if need be, and he's surrounded by freemen allies. If GURM makes us slough through 800-900 pages before a Jon reveal in AWOW I'm going to be pissed.

Just like he'd never spend the entire length of adwd and not get us any closer to resolving mereen....

oh wait

 

[ZephyrFate]

Are people really so bitter as to think TWOW won't have a lot of plot movement? Yeesh.

 

[Piecake]

Mel has a vision of a man turning into a wolf and then back into a man again. I'm guessing Jon lives on in Ghost until Mel revives his body and he moves back.

his body be going in the freezer. No other reason to mention that damn freezer so much

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

his body be going in the freezer. No other reason to mention that damn freezer so much

Also kind of goes with the blue flower or whatever growing from a chink in the Wall from one of Dany's visions.

 

[Piecake]

Also kind of goes with the blue flower or whatever growing from a chink in the Wall from one of Dany's visions.

His feces and bodily fluids are going to sprout blue flowers on the wall?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

His feces and bodily fluids are going to sprout blue flowers on the wall?

Isn't that what usually happens when you put a body on ice?

 

[Piecake]

Isn't that what usually happens when you put a body on ice?

I'm not really sure, but Ill accede the point to you since you seem to have experience with putting dead bodies in freezers

 

[tino]

Are people really so bitter as to think TWOW won't have a lot of plot movement? Yeesh.

How many chapter do you think will book 6 spend in Mereen? Tyrion hasn't even turn The Second Son to the Mereen side yet.

 

[elrechazado]

Are people really so bitter as to think TWOW won't have a lot of plot movement? Yeesh.

5 years ago

"Are people really so bitter (about affc) as to think ADWD won't have a lot of plot movement? Yeesh."

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I feel (hope) that TWOW will start moving things along again. I also feel (hope) he has things planned out better and will write the book at a more timely pace. You can all proceed to laugh now.

 

[Piecake]

I feel (hope) that TWOW will start moving things along again. I also feel (hope) he has things planned out better and will write the book at a more timely pace. You can all proceed to laugh now.

I agree with you. I think shit is going to go down soon in Westeros. Meereen will take a little longer, she will meet up with all of those peeps, have some actual interesting conversations with people, and then finally make her way over to Westeros when its a total shit fest ruin and then stuff will happen.

From my little outline, I really dont see how this is going to be finished in 7 books. But I have faith that book 6 will be even better. Westeros is coming to a boil and actual interesting characters will meet up with Dany

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Bran has a vision all the way back in the first book that hints at Jon turning into a wight. I could see Jon coming back as the "King of the Wights" and be the main antagonist leading the attack against the watch.

I agree with you. I think shit is going to go down soon in Westeros. Meereen will take a little longer, she will meet up with all of those peeps, have some actual interesting conversations with people, and then finally make her way over to Westeros when its a total shit fest ruin and then stuff will happen.

Don't forget that they have to go off and conquer Pentos before they actually head over to Westeros. I see the end of Winds being the absolute earliest Dany can leave for Westeros.

 

[ZephyrFate]

5 years ago

"Are people really so bitter (about affc) as to think ADWD won't have a lot of plot movement? Yeesh."

I knew ADWD was Feast Part 2 and thus did not expect much more plot movement.

 

[elrechazado]

I knew ADWD was Feast Part 2 and thus did not expect much more plot movement.

Yet some of the plot points moved. Seems like retconning expectations to me rather than judging the book on its merits as a fifth of 7 in a series.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Yet some of the plot points moved. Seems like retconning expectations to me rather than judging the book on its merits as a fifth of 7 in a series.

Some of them moved, but it's not retconning anything when we knew these were two halves of one book. I didn't expect anything to radically change because the tone of both books is similar. And the fact that they occur at the same time makes ADWD more ASOIAF 4.5 and less ASOIAF 5.

 

[elrechazado]

Some of them moved, but it's not retconning anything when we knew these were two halves of one book. I didn't expect anything to radically change because the tone of both books is similar. And the fact that they occur at the same time makes ADWD more ASOIAF 4.5 and less ASOIAF 5.

you honestly didn't expect any further plot progression for dany from mereen?

 

[Piecake]

Yet some of the plot points moved. Seems like retconning expectations to me rather than judging the book on its merits as a fifth of 7 in a series.

Eh, I don't need much plot movement to enjoy a book so long as the things that are happening with the characters are interesting. Like I said previously, I would have absolutely LOVED the book if Tyrion and Dany met up at the 2/3s mark. It would have made both their chapters a whole lot better since Tyrion needs someone to play off of (Penny and Jorah simply did not work), and Dany just needs someone interesting in her chapters. Hell, nothing could have happened in their chapters besides them talking about history, prejudices, Westeros, whores, etc and I would have been thoroughly entertained.

 

[ZephyrFate]

you honestly didn't expect any further plot progression for dany from mereen?

We got plot progression from her... it was just in the same city for awhile.

 

[Veelk]

Since the Dragon's thread is dead, I might as well copypasta my thoughts here, without the worry of spoilers.

I've finished the book today and read over the thread, so here are my own thoughts on it.

Jon: For me, this is indisputably the best storyline in the book. It all seemed so hopeless at first, but Jon somehow swelled the watches numbers up to the thousands (even if fewer people actually joined the watch, they worked for them, which is good enough), rehabilitated the castles, found the funds to gain enough food for the winter. Yet all the while, his men grew more and more unhappy with him, and it ended in that shocking turn. (The Varamyr thing didn't tip me off. All I thought was that Jon would embrace his warg powers more ). I doubt that he is actually, fully dead, but we'll see. All the same, the end seriously depressed me. I had a hard time concentrating on the last few chapters because of this. Brilliant story arc.

Dany: I read most of the thread over before I decided to write this, but it shocks me how many people missed the point of the the story. "HURRR, THIS IS OUT OF CHARACTER, WHY DOESN'T SHE JUST BURN THE CITY TO THE GROUND" Yeah...does anyone else remember what happened to her at the end of ASOS? She just got news that her efforts for peace in Astapor and Yunkai, she realized that conquering a city and ruling it were two entirely different things. And that's the point, she didn't simply want to be a destroyer, someone who comes in fucks everything up. That's why she doesn't simply go and burn shit up with her dragons, because that's not why she's lingering in Meereen.

This is also why so much backstory on Essoss was necessary. As a diplomat, she needed to understand their customs and reach a compromise that would allow her people to live happily without destroying Meereen's economy and culture. In the end, it turns out to be fruitless. She fails and now realizees that she can only be a tool of destruction. I wonder if she even wants to rule Westeros anymore, with how she's sure she'll be inept in doing so. This is the way in which she grew, and anyone who says her chapters were meandering and filler or is filled with useless backstory on the Meereen is missing the point.

That said, while the people who are crying out that this was background filler or out of character are out of their minds, I understand the notion of people who simply find these boring. I didn't think they were bad, but they weren't on the level of the politics of the Red Keep. I think this is mainly an issue with familiarity. These were strange names with weird customs and we are all more concerned about whats happening at Westeros, because that's where the important stuff is. Like GRRM mentioned, Westeros is the star of the show and other lands are only important in so far as to reflect that. In this case, they are important as they are developing Dany's character and who she will be in Westeros once she gets there, and we know this, so the meereen chapters just feel like a drag. On top of this, we were given the impression that many storylines would all converge on Dany, which didn't happen, so many were a bit disappointed. Personally, I believe that when I reread this book, with the greater sense of who is who and what is what, I will enjoy these chapters far more.

Quentyn and Barristan: These 2, once Dany got on her dragon and left, were there to finish the story of Meereen. Quentyn was there because he wanted to get the dragons, and while that may have ended in failure, it wasn't meaningless as people have talked about as he did release Rhaegal and Viserion. And the fact that he burned for it is probably going to hurt relations between Aegon and Dorne. His journey failed, but that hardly means it was meaningless. Barristan's story though....I suppose the jury's still out on that one. Dany's time in Meereen is done, or is about to be. As such, there is little point in his power play at the end there, but this strange alliance with Dorne may prove to be useful. It's like his last few chapters were Dany's own epilogues. But I feel, for the most part, it was set up.

Tyrion:

Spoiler

His chapters were probably the most disappointing of the lot. Well written, to be sure, but I wanted to see him talk to Dany, to ride dragons. You going with Griff and the boys, LOL NOPE. Your actually going with Jorah Mormont EXCEPT NOT, YOUR GONNA BE SENT THERE AS A SLAVE LMAO

grrmtroll.jpg

Like Dany, his story is hardly wasted space. He needed something to kick him out his depressed stupor and get back on his feet to accomplish something. It's a shame that something is with the Second Son's, and by the time he gets Casterly Rock, everyone will have probably used up the gold anyway. I don't foresee a happy ending for our favorite little midget. Progress was made and it will be good to see where his story leads him.

However, I didn't enjoy his chapters as much as I should have, because I dislike characters with no real freedom. It's the same problem I had with Davos of ACOK, he was just there to do as he was told. Here, Tyrion is first at the mercy of Illyrio, then gets companionship with Griff's crew, then is captive by Jorah, then by the slavers. It's only at the end where he gets his freedom back and promises to get back into the game of thrones.

Theon: ...shit. I have to say that these were some of the most harrowing chapters I've ever read. Just holy shit levels of horror. Really well written stuff. And his struggle to return to the character he was was great. No complaints here.

Bran & Arya & Davos & Victarion & Cersei & Jaime : Their chapters were all absolutely fantastic, but why so few? While Bran, I can understand somewhat, he needs to fit into the timeline correctly while not revealing too much about his powers, I don't understand why Arya's 2 chapters couldn't be in a Feast For Crows. And Davos' didn't really lead anywhere either, which I find silly. i can't see why Cersei's and Jaime's chapters could not have been in the first few chapters of Winds of Winter. Also, why is Victarion a better guy than Euron again? There's just way too few of them, and while they're great, they don't add much to the overall story.

Asha: Her's weren't too bad, but I don't know if they were particularly remarkable in any way either. They were a window to show us what stannis was doing, basically, which is fine, because...shit is fucked up in the North, goddamn.

Overall thoughts: Even though I can't really fault any of it, right now it leaves somewhat of a disappointed taste in my mouth. Perhaps, like Feast, I had expected too much of a rush, like ASoS was. Which is fine, all that means is that I will enjoy it all the more when I reread it a year down the line or so. It had some truly great moments, and Jon's storyline was fucking awesome. But it feels fragmented, particularly in the case of the characters who only got a few chapters to their name. To make them fully awesome, they need to have full, complete storylines, not just these bits and pieces.

 

[tino]

What kind of plot twist do you guys think GRRM has in store for the last 2/3 books? I don't mean the R+L kind you can see a mile away, I mean the Red Wedding, Joffre Wedding kind of major reversal of plot directions.


I will start:

* Aegon's saleswords will be able to win him the Iron Throne, but just before he is crowned, Little Finger will steal the throne from under him.


* Prince Aegon turns out to be a false king and true son of Illyrio


* Dany will gather her armies and major characters in Mereen, but she will not be able to bring her Unsullied army and Khalasha army to westeros. By the time she reach Westeros, she most like will only has her dragons and Tyrion. Why? This is just the way GRRM writes.


* The wall will fall

 

[vhfive]

What kind of plot twist do you guys think GRRM has in store for the last 2/3 books? I don't mean the R+L kind you can see a mile away, I mean the Red Wedding, Joffre Wedding kind of major reversal of plot directions.


I will start:

* Aegon's saleswords will be able to win him the Iron Throne, but just before he is crowned, Little Finger will steal the throne from under him.


* Prince Aegon turns out to be a false king and true son of Illyrio


* Dany will gather her armies and major characters in Mereen, but she will not be able to bring her Unsullied army and Khalasha army to westeros. By the time she reach Westeros, she most like will only has her dragons and Tyrion. Why? This is just the way GRRM writes.


* The wall will fall

If this doesn't happen I'll be surprised

 

[Eteric Rice]

Pretty sure Sam has the Horn of Joramun, the one Jon found at the Fist. Not confirmed but it definitely makes sense.

This is what I'm thinking as well.

Watch Sam be the one that saves Westeros. Lol, and probably by accident.

 

[Puddles]

Thinking about it more, I'm pretty sure a lot of people are disappointed because nobody expected a "calm before the storm" that would take up two books - two of the middle books in the series no less.

Game of Thrones started off a little slow, but quickly put some big pieces in play. By the end of the book you were certain that a truly epic struggle for the ages was about to unfold. Clash and Storm kept building this up - sure, Dany didn't cross the ocean to join the fray, but the action in Westeros only got more intense.

Then Feast happened. A quarter of the book is Brienne running around Westeros on a fruitless mission, another quarter is Sam traveling south with an old man and a chick who won't stop crying, and most of the other half is Cersei losing her shit.

People said "Oh, that's alright, it's only to be expected. The first three books were all about building up the War of the Five Kings. Now that that's over, this is the book that sets up all the pieces for the next huge series of events. Dance will finish getting those set up and then unleash the fury; just wait, it's gonna be awesome."

Then Dance came, and the entire book was about setting up pieces that still aren't in place yet.

I think people were hoping for at least 2 1/2 books of unrestrained, ferocious awesomeness. Instead, we'll be lucky to get 1 1/2 if this series stays at seven books. There's a very real possibility that this series may NEVER reach the frenetic level of action of Storm again, and I think a lot of fans were hoping that most of Dance and all of Winds and Dream would be at that level.

 

[duckroll]

I'm not disappointed by Feast or Dance at all. That's not to say the books are flawless. There are definite issues with the pacing and disjointed narrative motion because of the split between the two books. But in terms of what actually happens, and the general direction of the series, I feel it is very consistent with the world and my expectations of the characters. Would it be cooler if things moved faster? Sure. But I like all the extensive world building even if a lot of it doesn't "matter" to the core story. It creates a more believable world, and it makes it more enjoyable to read.

The only thing is actually disliked in Dance is the same thing I have disliked in the first 3 books. Dany chapters feel like a completely different novel, and that's clearly intentional, but it's just not a novel I really care to read because it's laced with romance smut and far eastern "savage culture" overtones. It just doesn't really interest me, so it makes it harder to wash down.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Thinking about it more, I'm pretty sure a lot of people are disappointed because nobody expected a "calm before the storm" that would take up two books - two of the middle books in the series no less.

Game of Thrones started off a little slow, but quickly put some big pieces in play. By the end of the book you were certain that a truly epic struggle for the ages was about to unfold. Clash and Storm kept building this up - sure, Dany didn't cross the ocean to join the fray, but the action in Westeros only got more intense.

Then Feast happened. A quarter of the book is Brienne running around Westeros on a fruitless mission, another quarter is Sam traveling south with an old man and a chick who won't stop crying, and most of the other half is Cersei losing her shit.

People said "Oh, that's alright, it's only to be expected. The first three books were all about building up the War of the Five Kings. Now that that's over, this is the book that sets up all the pieces for the next huge series of events. Dance will finish getting those set up and then unleash the fury; just wait, it's gonna be awesome."

Then Dance came, and the entire book was about setting up pieces that still aren't in place yet.

I think people were hoping for at least 2 1/2 books of unrestrained, ferocious awesomeness. Instead, we'll be lucky to get 1 1/2 if this series stays at seven books. There's a very real possibility that this series may NEVER reach the frenetic level of action of Storm again, and I think a lot of fans were hoping that most of Dance and all of Winds and Dream would be at that level.

Very true. And as much as I love Feast/Dance, Storm is pretty much the best fucking fantasy book ever written. I don't know if it'll ever reach those levels again, but I expect the conclusion to have us reeling.