LOL, Cliffy. If you were employed now, you would certainly be next on the list of people GAF needs to get fired ASAP. I don't know why I bothered reading half of what you wrote there, you owe me like 5 minutes now.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Adam Orth no longer with Microsoft
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
LOL, Cliffy. If you were employed now, you would certainly be next on the list of people GAF needs to get fired ASAP. I don't know why I bothered reading half of what you wrote there, you owe me like 5 minutes now.
blitzcloud
Banned
Liked that post. And yeah, always online is coming, it only needs to come with a stronger infrastructure to be a valid thing.
People on 2006 used to say: "why hdmi if HD tvs are not the norm? Why bluray?" when ps3 happened to land on the consumer market.
I'd say 2 years later it the tendencies changed.
People on 2006 used to say: "why hdmi if HD tvs are not the norm? Why bluray?" when ps3 happened to land on the consumer market.
I'd say 2 years later it the tendencies changed.
shinobi602
Member
What a bunch of shit.
And:
Riiiight, he wanted to leave the company coincidentally a few days after all this shit went kablooey.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
This is the best news of the week
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
LOL he said deal with it too! So clever!
Huxtable said:
Then maybe, you know, don't use services that limit you to 140 characters so that you can convey a proper emotion, intent or meaning.
Huh.
Yeah, that part is where he completely lost me.
So you guys are jumping on Ckiffy B now?
He's wrong on a few of the subjects he addresses but right for most of it, isn't he?
Lots of people here seemed to enjoy the fact that the man got fired.
Now I don't agree with what Sweet Cheeks Billy did, or especially how he handled it but the Cliffster does have a point.
Hope some of you guys are joking at the moment, to be honest.
E: I don't think he meant who hates always online is a pirate.
He's wrong on a few of the subjects he addresses but right for most of it, isn't he?
Lots of people here seemed to enjoy the fact that the man got fired.
Now I don't agree with what Sweet Cheeks Billy did, or especially how he handled it but the Cliffster does have a point.
Hope some of you guys are joking at the moment, to be honest.
E: I don't think he meant who hates always online is a pirate.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
He mentions that despite all the shit, Sim City and Diablo 3 have sold well. He forgets that it isn't the bad entry that sells poorly, it's the one after.
Also mentions his iPad in a defense of always-on, despite iPads being fully functional offline (how I use mine most of the time).
Other than that, I can respect the general sentiment of his post.
Wickerbasket
Member
Cliffy is living in a dream world if he thinks you don't have to be accountable for your actions when working for a big company. Orth probably broke a couple of NDAs by fueling the always online fire.
The guy lost his job, or "resigned", because he was talking about stuff he shouldn't have been talking about.
I find it funny though, Cliffy's entire post is a compilation of all the worst arguments we've had so far for always online; highlights include, people who disagree are pirates and who cares if you're inconvenienced by it because it doesn't inconvenience me.
In the end, I'm just going to buy the product that's the most convenient for me; ease of use is key.
The guy lost his job, or "resigned", because he was talking about stuff he shouldn't have been talking about.
I find it funny though, Cliffy's entire post is a compilation of all the worst arguments we've had so far for always online; highlights include, people who disagree are pirates and who cares if you're inconvenienced by it because it doesn't inconvenience me.
In the end, I'm just going to buy the product that's the most convenient for me; ease of use is key.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Oh, look. Cliffy B saying stupid shit. I'm in total disbelief.
How can Cliffy know that Diablo would have sold half as much without the Always-Online requirement? Maybe if you're talking about using the RMAH, but the boxed or digital copy selling half as much is absurd.
What information backs this up. It's a fallacy to believe that past success ensures future success with one iteration. Diablo is a known brand. Pointing to always-online as the differentiating factor in its immense success requires more evidence than he provided.
I won't insult Cliff as others have, but I will disagree with his premise.
What information backs this up. It's a fallacy to believe that past success ensures future success with one iteration. Diablo is a known brand. Pointing to always-online as the differentiating factor in its immense success requires more evidence than he provided.
I won't insult Cliff as others have, but I will disagree with his premise.
wastedyears
Member
I"m sure this has been mentioned countless times already, but the whole point of a non disclosure agreement is that you agree that you won't disclose anything. Whether it be good, bad, or indifferent, you don't say anything about it until they say you can, if ever. That's the whole idea. He had to know that when he signed his NDA, and he had to be aware of the consequences he would face if he violated the NDA.
Wickerbasket
Member
I think Ubisoft would be a more apt comparison.
How did their always online games go? Didn't they end up back pedalling?
Cliffy said:
What the fuck does that mean Cliff. The dude's rants could've cost Microsoft thousands or potentially millions of dollars, new rumors may have adverted that outcome, but Adam made Microsoft look like a teenage tyrant spouting Obama memes overnight.
Why is it so hard for many people within the gaming industry not being able to cast blame or responsibility for themselves? Why blame social sites or forums?
While I like Cliffy he's totally wrong on almost every single thing here.
Diablo 3 and SimCity didn't sell well because they were always online. They sold well because their previous game entries were popular enough to make a brand out of it. Diablo 3 is a fucking horrible example anyway. Almost a year later and there is no way Blizzard can be happy with how it turned out.
He also fails to accept the fact that there are circumstances where you can't be online. A vacation in the woods is not the same thing as someone who lives in a place with shitty internet or is in the military. Also, he blatantly mentions his iPad and says it's always online but it's fucking not. It's connection capable but the thing doesn't stop being useable if it doesn't connect to the internet and I'm sure people wouldn't justify a purchase of such a unit.
Also what community or group is he addressing that are happy that Adam Orth got fired? Sure there's a couple assholes but it's the internet. Most reasonable people are just saying he got what was coming for being so outspoken and a dick as a representative of his former employer.
I'd like people to take responsibility for their own actions. Don't talk about your NDA'd unannounced console. Don't be patronizing to people. If you act like an assclown, own up to it and take responsibility.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
haha, I can already tell some of you guys will judging Cliffy's next game more harshly than usual.
I think people can disagree with him without insulting him or judging his future products unfairly. I disagree with his article, that's it.
Devilgunman
Member
Wickerbasket
Member
Only if it's always online
.In general though, I can enjoy content despite the creators views, as long as they don't taint the work. For instance, there's still some Mel Gibson movies I enjoy despite finding some of the guy's views ridiculous.
Yeah, more than ever, people will call you out for being a douche. That whole anonymity on the internet is going away with how public our presence is. If Orth talked in a more respectable manner on his views, then maybe it wouldn't be a big deal.
That Kevin Dent Square Crossover post I made? I honestly thought there was something there. No harm meant from it. He then calls Gaf (me) a dolt on twitter, and I call him out in a respectful manner. He didn't respond.
As time goes this year, people that have been douches will get called out more and tone down. Just like being out in public. Just because it's the internet doesn't make it different.
VeryGooster
Banned
I really wish Bleszinski would sit and take a breath and think before he goes on these tirades. They always seem to be a collection of straw man arguments.
LowParry
Member
Pffffff hahahahaha!
Why oh why can't this pass already. Oh noes, GAF, we be assassins!
spandexmonkey
Banned
Price of public discourse. He could've kept those comments local.
It's interesting how Cliffy's post fails to acknowledge the failure to adhere to NDA. I don't think that there are many people reveling in the fact that Adam is no longer at Microsoft. Most of us just don't disagree with whatever decision was made (even if it really was Adam's) for the relationship to no longer exist.
For those defending Adam, I'm very glad that you are not in a position that holds information critical to billions of dollars worth of shareholder money.
For those defending Adam, I'm very glad that you are not in a position that holds information critical to billions of dollars worth of shareholder money.
Beer Monkey
Member
Young Clifford is wrong on this one. Orth screwed himself. Maybe some douchebags online revel in it, but that still doesn't mean that anybody other than Orth is at fault. Just because there are assholes out there doesn't make you a fucking victim.
If Orth is competent, he'll come out of this situation just fine. His abilities will outshine his error.
And enough of this fucking "I know people who say he's a great dude" bullshit. Every prick and cunt I've ever known have their defenders.
If Orth is competent, he'll come out of this situation just fine. His abilities will outshine his error.
And enough of this fucking "I know people who say he's a great dude" bullshit. Every prick and cunt I've ever known have their defenders.
So, regards to always online #dealwithit ???
You can use an iPad offline but that eliminates like 95% of the use cases - most apps require the internet to function properly.
Azure Dream
Member
CliffyB said:
It's also possible the dinosaur people called him back to space to save them from the armies of machine gun-wielding kittens. But I'd say it's very probable that causing international negative news would be the most likely reason a timely "resignation" might occur.
Beer Monkey
Member
Weird, I use mine offline all the time.
inpHilltr8r
Member
That man is drowning!
I blame the ocean.
I blame the ocean.
Calibur
Member
The mega rich douche strikes again!
How do you feel about adhering to a strict NDA as part of a requirement of your job? If you purposefully don't, do you feel you should get a free pass? Several free passes?
Also, this is how the freedom of speech works. You are free to say whatever you want to whomever you want and whatever audience you have are free to do the same. You would prefer a world where we are allowed to say whatever we want without consequence or ownership to those words? Imagine what that world would be like.
For gaming or playing back any media that is stored locally on the device already, sure.
But most things that people do on an iPad - browsing the web, posting to social networks, streaming media (Netflix, Hulu, HBO Go, etc) requires internet access.
jakonovski
Member
Shit, the gig is up the industry knows about Neogaf plotting their downfall!
BRB packing the bugout bag.
BRB packing the bugout bag.
Wickerbasket
Member
So you're saying that stuff that needs an internet connection requires the internet? Well, I'd say that was fairly obvious.
I can still use 90% of the apps on my iPhone/iPad while offline, so it invalidates your point.
There's no stopping us now. Fear nothing!
CaptainGyro
Banned
I seriously have no idea how this story is supposed to make anybody on gaf feel bad. All I got out of it is you think gaf is a bunch of manbabies, but you can't even get over the fact that you were punished for something you did and are acting as if you went through some traumatic wrongfully accused man-in-prison shit. And oh no, your teacher had a fupa. Yeah sorry to hear that Van Halen didn't just bust in and start playing "Hot For Teacher" while blondes in bikinis bounce on top of a desk. Horrific.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Judgeing from my post history. I was quite tamed. Never said he should get fired. (only said fucking twice and decided to remove them)
or it may have sold double. We will never know.(unless the console sales can be used)
While this is true, it's ALSO a portable device, so being able to use it without the internet is very, very valuable. Admittedly this doesn't apply as much to a comparatively bulky console, but still.
I really, REALLY doubt that. Maybe I'm seriously underestimating pirates here, but the game would've likely been de facto always online if it had an offline mode anyway: they'd do the same thing as Diablo II and bar your offline character from online play, and to play with friends people would still want to be able to play online. Though I guess I'd need to see the numbers of how many played online with other people versus alone.
Also I can't help but wonder how many are really overestimating how much you even need to be "always online" for content protection. On PC maybe, though it's probably not worth the cost in the end, but on consoles? Unless they keep easily being hacked they should be able to be secured on that front, and if they get hacked these people would probably hack or figure out a way to kill the dialing home unless they ran a good chunk of the game remotely, and then at that point the problem becomes that you may be blowing too much money trying to prevent piracy and thus LOSE more than you would have otherwise.
Xenon
Member
If you work in a large corporation nowadays you have to agree to some code of conduct which almost certainly includes rules regarding social media like Twitter. It also almost very likely that there a number of infractions of said CoC happening daily without incident. The problem here is that Orth breaking the rules resulted in a huge media backlash. He responded directly to a hot topic regarding something that is currently protected by an NDA all while having his Microsoft position attached to his account. He fucked up. I am not happy the man lost his job but it's not shocking.
EagleBurnn
Banned
Lol, what? This is common practice for companies. Hardly anyone significant to a company is fired anymore. They're always pressured to "resign" so both parties can part with respect.
lastflowers
Banned
How do you know he is under an NDA? How do you know he even knew anything about always-online? How do we all know he was serious when saying #dealwithit? What if he wasn't cognizant of anything xbox next-gen related?
There is this collective assumption here about so many different things that we really know nothing about. Not saying cliffy/jaffe are spot-on, nor do I really disagree at all with Jeff green.
The constant use of 'straw-man' and other rhetorical terms are humorous, because many of discussions are based on an entire bed of possible strawmen.
The NDA isn't getting enough attention. Every Microsoft employee signs one and it usually contains:
It was a breach of contract relating to an unannounced multi-billion dollar product.