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[Deleted member 30609]

CliffyB post-

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

(Hell if I had a nickel for every email that was misinterpreted when I was at Epic.)

“I’m so angry about this game treating me like a thief!” ::alt tabs over to bit torrent::

Well behaved people rarely make history.

well then, pack it up folks.

 

[Acorn]

Lol, what? This is common practice for companies. Hardly anyone significant to a company is fired anymore. They're always pressured to "resign" so both parties can part with respect.

Pretty much, but if its the average joe they get their asses terminated without the option to resign.

Funny that.

 

[Bedlam]

Yeah CliffyB, deal with it. There is a consumer world outside of your corporate bubble. And those consumers chose to not eat all that bullshit that guys like you would like to serve them.

Orth brought it upon himself. His comments were unprofessional. Period. And it just happened that a few internet communities started to discuss his offenisve twitter remarks and voiced collective displeasure (neogaf, reddit etc... if it weren't for those, it would've been other communities; there will always be large gatherings of consumers).

 

[WrenchNinja]

CliffyB post-

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

Is this satire?

 

[jWILL253]

That "Well behaved people rarely make history" is the most awkward part about that post. So what, Adam Orth is Huey Newton, now? He's the new guard for always-online DRM? Fuckouttahere...

 

[Pavaloo]

When did he break NDA?

 

[Tangeroo]

How do you know he is under an NDA? How do you know he even knew anything about always-online? How do we all know he was serious when saying #dealwithit? What if he wasn't cognizant of anything xbox next-gen related?

There is this collective assumption here about so many different things that we really know nothing about. Not saying cliffy/jaffe are spot-on, nor do I really disagree at all with Jeff green.

The constant use of 'straw-man' and other rhetorical terms are humorous, because many of discussions are based on an entire bed of possible strawmen.

All Xbox/Microsoft Game Studios employees are under strict NDA and are well versed on the improper use of social media. It appears that Adam was under the assumption that his comments were obtuse enough to avoid liability to the NDA that he signed. He was incorrect.

 

[Phonomezer]

CliffyB post-

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

I find it disgusting that an online community would revel in the fact that they may have potentially contributed to a person losing their job. Even then, if they didn’t have anything to do with it at the end of the day, that they have the collective ego to think that they could do that.

I agree.

And it was also less about Orth and more about the EVIL MICROSOFT XBOX.

 

[Pavaloo]

I agree.

And it was also less about Orth and more about the EVIL MICROSOFT XBOX.

It was more about ALWAYS ONLINE RAH! [And probably consumer relations afterwards] But I don't think the NextBox is going to be like SimCity in that regard.

 

[paolo11]

Always online requirement is worse than DLC on disc.

 

[methane47]

CliffyB post-

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

If a service is good then people don’t mind paying for it. My Ipad is always connected because I love browsing Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook. I love the ecosystem of Itunes and the App store. If the ecosystem of an always connected device is fantastic then suddenly people don’t really seem to notice any more.

What if you couldn't listen to music, or read books, or watch video, or play games because the iPad had no connection to the internet.

Right now i have an android phone and i LOATH applications that require a connection. Even FREE apps. It makes no sense. Why do i need an internet connection to read the bible i've downloaded?

Why do i need an internet connection to play a game i've bought.

Why would anyone think that penalizing a paying user for any reason be a good thing?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

All Xbox/Microsoft Game Studios employees are under strict NDA and are well versed on the improper use of social media. It appears that Adam was under the assumption that his comments were obtuse enough to avoid liability to the NDA that he signed. He was incorrect.

Unless asking "Whats wrong with an always online console?" is considered a breach of contract, he got fired/resigned because his comments AFTER posing that question led to articles titled "Microsoft's Creative Director tells consumers to deal with it".

 

[Dash Kappei]

Orth's linkedin profile no longer exists.

They didn't just fire him, he got deleted.

 

[Cipherr]

CliffyB post-

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

Doesn't matter who it comes from, or how they write it. You aren't going to get me to roll over on the always online shit. Sorry, I hate it.

"Deal with it." Right back at cha.

And no, its not my fault that the guy slipped up and said something, and its not my fault that his employer possibly pressured him into resignation as a result. And fuck anyone who tries to imply that I am responsible instead of placing that blame where it lies.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Unless asking "Whats wrong with an always online console?" is considered a breach of contract, he got fired/resigned because his comments AFTER posing that question led to articles titled "Microsoft's Creative Director tells consumers to deal with it".

He shouldn't even be commenting on speculation about MS products though with his position at the company. He most likely was "resigned" due to his comments regarding always online which fuelled a ton of bad publicity. His bad attitude probably didn't help much either though admittedly.

There's a reason most companies have a social networking policy that warns that what you say online when representing the company can have a negative impact on your job.

 

[Trakdown]

Is this satire?

It's nonsensical enough to be a farce either way.

 

[xelios]

CliffyB post-

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

Me me me. No, stop looking at Gies! Look at me.

Let’s pay attention to the wording here. Resigned. Not fired.

When you're given the options of either resigning or being fired guess which one you're gonna pick?

 

[orznge]

can we have a tournament to find out who the least self-aware person in the gaming industry is

 

[-PXG-]

This has probably been posted already, but whatever

“Deal With It”

Yesterday reports that Adam Orth, the guy who somehow caused this shitstorm, is no longer at Microsoft.

Let’s pay attention to the wording here. Resigned. Not fired.

Now, beyond all of the use of the impact font and the “Haha let’s make an internet meme out of this guy we’ve never met” let’s also remember that what happened between Adam and his employer is now between the two of them. His comments may have exploded on the internet, but it’s actually quite possible that he was eyeing a departure, or he was getting bad reviews, or was tired of the perpetual overcast nature of the Pacific Northwest and timing may have been right for him to move on.

I’m going to let you in on a little secret. When someone leaves a company there’s what publicly is stated and there’s what really happened.

And you’re likely to never, ever know it.

I have never met Adam, but I have friends who know him and have told me first hand that he’s a good guy. Maybe he’s got a mortgage. Maybe he has kids. Bills to pay, just like you and I.

It’s awfully easy to sit on an anonymous forum or venue and sling mud at someone who has put themselves out there. Show me a person who hasn’t said something dumb or incorrect or yes, even cocky on the internet and he should cast the first stone.

We’ve all been there.

Let’s also keep in mind that Adam was not an official spokesperson for Microsoft.

But, Cliff, as an employee of a large company you should know better?

Sure.

But if I departed from Epic every time I said something dumb I wouldn’t have made it the last 10 years there. (P.S. Mike Capps was right…the Wii was a virus after all.) People make mistakes and sometimes it’s hard to actually convey a proper emotion, intent or meaning in 140 characters. (Hell if I had a nickel for every email that was misinterpreted when I was at Epic.)

Now, I don’t know as much as you’d think I know about Microsoft’s future plans. Even if I did I wouldn’t go blogging about it like some sort of fool.

My gut is telling me that an always online future is probably coming. It’s coming fast, and possibly to the majority of the devices you enjoy. Adam’s analogies weren’t that far off; although the vacuum one was kind of weird. Sim City, with all of its’ troubles on launch, seems to be selling briskly. Diablo 3, the poster child of a messy launch, is estimated to be at 12 million units. (Remember the internet rage over the art style shift? I barely do. But it seemed so important at the time!) I would bet money that without the always online elements of Diablo 3 that it would have sold half of that.

“I’m so angry about this game treating me like a thief!” ::alt tabs over to bit torrent::

Remember when Microsoft made the decision to only allow broadband on Xbox Live? It was a bold move back then; broadband penetration wasn’t anywhere near what it is now. And yet the march of progress continued. Sooner or later our government, or Google, or any number of providers are going to get their shit together and we’ll have universally fast internet for the majority of the first world.

Or at least the ability to stream Dawson’s Creek on fucking Netflix at decent quality.

And here’s the thing. I’d be willing to say that any early adopter for any new piece of technology is probably going to have some sort of solid internet connection. Also, and I’ve stated this before, keeping that umbilical cord connected might not always require some sort of insane fat pipe. Sometimes just 3G might be enough.

Even then, it doesn’t matter. If you’re on a forum raging about Adam’s comments there’s a whole new generation of kids who are growing up always online who won’t really give a shit. And all that anger, all of that vitrol, all of that lynch mobbing that the internet seems to love to do lately will be for naught and forgotten.

My wife and I were discussing these issues this afternoon and she mentioned the example of “Hey what if I’m a gamer who wants to go to a cabin in the woods for a week and I don’t have online access there?” My response was “Unplugging entirely sometimes isn’t always a bad thing. And that’s the edge case…the week-long vacation to the cabin is only 30 hours of not playing a game or a device that’s built for much more.

Technology doesn’t advance by worrying about the edge case.

If a service is good then people don’t mind paying for it. My Ipad is always connected because I love browsing Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook. I love the ecosystem of Itunes and the App store. If the ecosystem of an always connected device is fantastic then suddenly people don’t really seem to notice any more. When electricity came along and people had to have meters attached to their house they didn’t mind because they loved the idea of light bulbs, electric ranges, and refrigeration.

If we don’t have devices that aren’t fully always online you can bet your ass that we’ll have devices that encourage you to return to the online ecosystem in order to “check in” and make sure everything on the system is legit. Could you hack/jailbreak such a device? Sure, but that crowd will almost always be the die hard/enthusiast crowd that’s not the average user and makes up a small percentage of the potential sales.

“Well that escalated quickly.”

I find it disgusting that an online community would revel in the fact that they may have potentially contributed to a person losing their job. Even then, if they didn’t have anything to do with it at the end of the day, that they have the collective ego to think that they could do that. In a world of Indie-go-go and Kickstarter, where we can do great things in numbers, we should know better.

I’d rather live in a world where someone can slip up, say something that the world doesn’t agree with, and not have the collective internet lynch mob up their ass.

Well behaved people rarely make history.

Deal with it.

I got half way through and couldn't finish. I like Cliff and respect him a lot. He's not necessarily wrong, but it comes off as apologist bullshit.

I really don't feel sorry for Adam Orth. I'm not "happy" he lost his job, but I don't really care that he did either. He said some shitty things and acted like a jerk. He should have just kept his mouth shut. Other devs manage to do it. Why did he think he was special and could get away with what he did.

 

[Sean]

So you're saying that stuff that needs an internet connection requires the internet? Well, I'd say that was fairly obvious.

I can still use 90% of the apps on my iPhone/iPad while offline, so it invalidates your point.

Well everyone has different use cases I suppose. It's the opposite for me personally, most of the iOS apps I use require internet to function properly. And there's lots of surveys (like this one) which show internet-related stuff (web browsing, email, etc) as the most popular use cases on iPad.

I'm glad that iOS devices can be used offline, I just think they become severely crippled without internet access.

 

[Nokterian]

What did i just read? I mean doesn't he follow what really happend? Adam just said to all consumers to 'deal with it' for always online. So a big fuck you to all who ever bought a xbox or wants to buy a new one. He put it up him self that this happend and blaming the 'internet' and gaf is just hilarious.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

This has probably been posted already, but whatever

Yes, let's paste the entire thing everyone's already been talking about for the last page.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Well everyone has different use cases I suppose. It's the opposite for me personally, most of the iOS apps I use require internet to function properly. And there's lots of surveys (like this one) which show internet-related stuff (web browsing, email, etc) as the most popular use cases on iPad.

I'm glad that iOS devices can be used offline, I just think they become severely crippled without internet access.

It's curious that you replied with a graph that refutes nothing that I said. The iPad isn't an always online device, I can use 90% of the apps on it offline. It's obvious that services which require internet will need internet access, that's not what always online means though.

Despite the fact that most people spend most of their time using online functions, I'm sure they'd be very displeased if they suddenly couldn't play their games in the car or while waiting for the train.

 

[Aquamarine]

This has probably been posted already, but whatever



I got half way through and couldn't finish. I like Cliff and respect him a lot. He's not necessarily wrong, but it comes off as apologist bullshit.

I really don't feel sorry for Adam Orth. I'm not "happy" he lost his job, but I don't really care that he did either. He said some shitty things and acted like a jerk. He should have just kept his mouth shut. Other devs manage to do it. Why did he think he was special and could get away with what he did.

I also will have to respectfully disagree with Mr. CliffyB. The employee should have known the consequences of his words given his position at Microsoft. Even if it's meant as a joke, he's the one who screwed up and he needs to pay the price.

 

[orznge]

have we decided on whether we want to send Cliffy's latest blog post to the news outlets and make him unemployable yet? we wield that kind of power

 

[Kusagari]

Cliffy's Diablo 3 comment is one of the dumbest things I've read in recent memory.

 

[Uno Venova]

Damn what an embarrassing post from cliff.

 

[Dash Kappei]

What if you couldn't listen to music, or read books, or watch video, or play games because the iPad had no connection to the internet.

Right now i have an android phone and i LOATH applications that require a connection. Even FREE apps. It makes no sense.

Ads.

Why do i need an internet connection to read the bible i've downloaded?

Ads.

 

[Izick]

CliffyB post-

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

Posted this in the thread that was closed:

He's right that it's sick that people shcadenfreude it up in those always-on threads involving him. To be fair though, it's not just Neogaf. Most online communities, here included, consists of a lot of sadist dicks that like to jump on the hate bandwagon and start making dumb jokes, memes, etc.

 

[Visualante2]

I wonder to what extent people are taking pleasure in Microsoft's empire showing some cracks, rather than Orth losing his job.

Knives are out for Microsoft right now. He's just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think Peter Moore is destined to go down eventually, people like that guy but he's batting for EA right now and that means people will make fun.

 

[orznge]

******.com/234789239/washed-up-out-of-touch-anti-consumer-apologist-hack-types-words-on-blog

 

[Tomat]

Cliffy's Diablo 3 comment is one of the dumbest things I've read in recent memory.

It made me pause for a second and go "Really?" I don't understand the logic behind thinking the game sold MORE because of it's DRM and awful launch.

 

[Mrbob]

What if you couldn't listen to music, or read books, or watch video, or play games because the iPad had no connection to the internet.

Right now i have an android phone and i LOATH applications that require a connection. Even FREE apps. It makes no sense. Why do i need an internet connection to read the bible i've downloaded?

Why do i need an internet connection to play a game i've bought.

Why would anyone think that penalizing a paying user for any reason be a good thing?

Yeah, he should have just stayed with the Adam Orth stuff and not gone into the always on tangent. His argument breaks down quickly.

 

[CrisKre]

Well everyone has different use cases I suppose. It's the opposite for me personally, most of the iOS apps I use require internet to function properly. And there's lots of surveys (like this one) which show internet-related stuff (web browsing, email, etc) as the most popular use cases on iPad.

I'm glad that iOS devices can be used offline, I just think they become severely crippled without internet access.

I think the point is that most people find issue with what seemingly would be the lack of choice in terms of nextbox being always online. All online enabled systems up to now had added functionality by being online. fine. But the users had the option to be offline for single or offline coop gaming no problem. The rumors suggesting the next xbox wouldnt allow this option seem baffling tbh. I still dont understand why anyone would ever design a system in this manner. What would microsoft gain?

 

[mullet2000]

CliffyB post-

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/47725362941/deal-with-it

Pretty bad post. The post reads a lot like "but hey he was a nice guy and he made a mistake." Know what? I bet he was a nice guy. But he did make a mistake. Mistakes have consequences. What is with people today not wanting people to take responsibility for their own actions?

If I was an exec at Microsoft and one of my employees seemingly confirmed a controversial feature of one of my products before we announced it, antagonized my customers and overall caused a whole PR mess for the product...I know I wouldn't be very happy with him. He didn't have to tweet what he did. He likely broke an NDA that he signed in doing all this, as well.

It's sad that he lost his job - really, it is. I wasn't one of the people sitting there and going "lul fire him!!1!!" but he lost his job because of his own actions, not "the internet."

 

[-PXG-]

Yes, let's paste the entire thing everyone's already been talking about for the last page.

Jeez...

But at least it's there in case people are too lazy

Anyway, as someone who normally likes Cliff, this is some straight up BULLSHIT. Total apologist drivel. Some parts are on point, but most of it is nonsense.

Come on Cliff. Give me a break.

Ummmm....yeah....Adam Orth did break his NDA. He made comments based off speculation and rumor. Anyone with a half a brain and any self respect would just keep their fucking mouths shut. But being the self important asshole that he is, he made several condescending remarks. What did he expect would happen.

Sure, I know he resigned. He wasn't fired. Whatever. Fuck him. I don't feel sorry for someone who did something dumb. Good on him if he learns his lesson. If he hasn't. Oh well....

 

[-COOLIO-]

This has probably been posted already, but whatever



I got half way through and couldn't finish. I like Cliff and respect him a lot. He's not necessarily wrong, but it comes off as apologist bullshit.

I really don't feel sorry for Adam Orth. I'm not "happy" he lost his job, but I don't really care that he did either. He said some shitty things and acted like a jerk. He should have just kept his mouth shut. Other devs manage to do it. Why did he think he was special and could get away with what he did.

i didnt read the whole, thing but i agree with what cliff appears to be saying. orth didnt do much of anything, he just put some bar talk on the internet and subsequently lost his job, it's a damn shame more than anything but i definitely feel for the guy.

 

[d0c_zaius]

cliffy b + deal with it = ignore

 

[orznge]

Posted this in the thread that was closed:

He's right that it's sick that people shcadenfreude it up in those always-on threads involving him. To be fair though, it's not just Neogaf. Most online communities, here included, consists of a lot of sadist dicks that like to jump on the hate bandwagon and start making dumb jokes, memes, etc.

Noooooo not the dumb memes and jokes! Quick, somebody save the jobs!

 

[benny_a]

What would microsoft gain?

Control.

Just an easy one: They could guarantee ad impressions. A closed box with a forced internet connection for everything. On the big TV. That's gotta be worth something.

 

[BadAss2961]

My wife and I were discussing these issues this afternoon and she mentioned the example of “Hey what if I’m a gamer who wants to go to a cabin in the woods for a week and I don’t have online access there?” My response was “Unplugging entirely sometimes isn’t always a bad thing. And that’s the edge case…the week-long vacation to the cabin is only 30 hours of not playing a game or a device that’s built for much more.

Sorry Cliffy, but this is always one of the dumbest arguments I see for always online.

It's a compromise that has never been made (for an entire console), doesn't have to, and has no benefit for the consumer.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I agree with most of Cliffy's points and counterpoints. However, regardless of what this generation thinks, always online can never be a good thing.

 

[orznge]

i didnt read the whole, thing but i agree with what cliff appears to be saying. orth didnt do much of anything, he just put some bar talk on the internet subsequently lost his job, it's a damn shame more than anything but i definitely feel for the guy.

by "bar talk" to do mean that his initial tweets that were directed at no twitter user in particular were made in a bar, or what?

 

[Exterminieren]

Cliffy B continues his streak of anti-consumer, apologist crap.

Ugh.

 

[Kusagari]

It made me pause for a second and go "Really?" I don't understand the logic behind thinking the game sold MORE because of it's DRM and awful launch.

Six million people would have seen they could play the game offline and just went "FUCK THAT SHIT!"

I literally cannot believe he typed that crap.

 

[Aquamarine]

Jeez...

But at least it's there in case people are too lazy

Anyway, as someone who normally likes Cliff, this is some straight up BULLSHIT. Total apologist drivel.

Come on Cliff. Give me a break.

Ummmm....yeah....Adam Orth did break his NDA. He made comments based off speculation and rumor. Anyone with a half a brain and any self respect would just keep their fucking mouths shut. But being the self important asshole that he is, he made several condescending remarks. What did he expect would happen.

Sure, I know he resigned. He wasn't fired. Whatever. Fuck him. I don't feel sorry for someone who did something dumb. Good on him if he learns his lesson. If he hasn't. Oh well....

The fact that he publicly alluded to Durango topics was a violation of his NDA. Microsoft employees are required to keep shut about Durango and pretend like it doesn't exist.

Regardless of how he came across to consumers, that alone may have been grounds enough for his firing. Microsoft DOES NOT fuck around when it comes to their secret projects.

 

[railGUN]

Love how the Xbox 720 will help me reconnect with nature. What a feature!

 

[anaron]

As a representative of a corporate company, he decided to use one of the most popular and established social media websites to publicly insult said company's consumers. Twitter doesn't allow for much nuance, so someone in Orth's position *probably* shouldn't have been "joking" around on it.


The man was an adult responsible for his own actions. He fucked up and paid the price for it. I'm not happy he lost his job over it, but ultimately, he himself is the reason he lost it and trying to place that blame onto anyone else is disgusting.

 

[AlimNassor]

I feel sorry he's out of a job, but, shut up CliffyB, he made a huge twitter shitstorm that caused a huge PR problem for Microsoft, is it any shock he's gone? We didn't get him fired, he got himself fired.

 

[orznge]

CliffyB's wife: sometimes I am on a trip and play a videogame for entertainment for some period of time

CliffyB: it would be cool if you were not allowed to do that