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[Jex]

Except...look at the casting calls. The guy is clearly backpedalling and trying to use that as an excuse, even one of the producers admits it was a mistake and that they didn't even try to look for actors of the appropriate ethnicity (they could've been in contact with a multitude of asian american film casting groups).

Shyamalan's reasoning is completely at fault because their ethnicity was an important part of the cartoon, taking that away undermines the hybrid of asian cultures the show was clearly portraying.

On top of that, they didnt even do a lot of the casting for supporting roles until after all the controversy. Also, they had originally cast Zuko as some young pretty boy white dude, which would've by extension made his entire family white too, which is basically the entire cast.

Woah. That sounds even stupider then I had imagined.

This is why I keep my cynical hat on.

 

[Zzoram]

Woah. That sounds even stupider then I had imagined.

This movie was whitewashed, no doubt about it. Their original plan of a purely white main cast for a movie adaptation of a TV show with arguably no white characters can't be called anything else.

 

[Plywood]

Fucking Paramount. :[

 

[ollin]

Well I hope Airbender bombs in the box office.

 

[Zzoram]

Well I hope Airbender bombs in the box office.

It will because the commercials for it have been pretty awful.

The TV show was for kids, but had a surprisingly amount of depth and character development. It was one of those shows that was made for kids, but better appreciated by adults.

The movie appears to be dumbing it down in many ways, not just the racial tensions.

 

[ollin]

It will because the commercials for it have been pretty awful.

The TV show was for kids, but had a surprisingly amount of depth and character development. It was one of those shows that was made for kids, but better appreciated by adults.

The movie appears to be dumbing it down in many ways, not just the racial tensions.

I am hopeful that it bombs, but I won't underestimate kids who might want to see it and their parents taking them. I haven't watched the TV show so I don't know much about the cast but found Racebending a good read for all the issues with the castings.

According to Deadline.com Prince of Persia did disappointing numbers at the box office. I know it wouldn't do PotC numbers but finishing third for the weekend isn't good.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I didn't hear enough bitching about the Black Kingpin so I don't want to hear about this shit either.

 

[harSon]

I didn't hear enough bitching about the Black Kingpin so I don't want to hear about this shit either.

You probably would have if there was a history of under representing whites within Hollywood films.

I am hopeful that it bombs, but I won't underestimate kids who might want to see it and their parents taking them. I haven't watched the TV show so I don't know much about the cast but found Racebending a good read for all the issues with the castings.

According to Deadline.com Prince of Persia did disappointing numbers at the box office. I know it wouldn't do PotC numbers but finishing third for the weekend isn't good.

That name recognition sure did them a lot of good!

Probably one of the main reasons I don't bother with Hollywood movies these days. I see no point in giving my money to watch Corey and Becky romp around in their perfect white world where no minorities exist.

Hollywood studios have made it pretty clear In the last few years that they're not interested in the minorities money or their talent so it's only fair I respond accordingly.

People probably brushed over this post thinking it was ridiculous, but it's unfortunately true. Woody Allen for example, constantly makes New York City look like Aspen, Colorado.

 

[dinazimmerman]

lol movies. who gives a shit

 

[vazel]

What do we all think of the black guy from The Wire playing a Norse God in Thor?

 

[Korey]

I didn't hear enough bitching about the Black Kingpin so I don't want to hear about this shit either.

What do we all think of the black guy from The Wire playing a Norse God in Thor?

The debate here is the marginalization of minorities in film, not necessarily "racial inaccuracies". Any effort to derail the debate in that direction is misdirection or trolling.

 

[harSon]

What do we all think of the black guy from The Wire playing a Norse God in Thor?

Genius.

Of all the Norse God's they could have chosen to misrepresent, they casted him as Heimdall, AKA the "White God".

 

[Htown]

What do we all think of the black guy from The Wire playing a Norse God in Thor?

Kinda lame. But like this guy said:

The debate here is the marginalization of minorities in film, not necessarily "racial inaccuracies". Any effort to derail the debate in that direction is misdirection or trolling.

Well, sort of. It's both.

The whole thing is that minorities are underrepresented in these roles to begin with, making instances where characters of color are turned into white characters even worse.

 

[Zoe]

Except...look at the casting calls. The guy is clearly backpedalling and trying to use that as an excuse, even one of the producers admits it was a mistake and that they didn't even try to look for actors of the appropriate ethnicity (they could've been in contact with a multitude of asian american film casting groups).

I'm pretty sure the director isn't the one writing the casting calls.

Anyway, I'm just happy that he said this:

Whoever I ended up with, I went that was their nationality. Suki was Jessica [Andres] who is a mix of Filipino. And now the Earth Kingdom is all Asian so Toph will have to be Asian.

instead of this:

Whoever I ended up with, I went that was their nationality. Suki was Jessica [Andres] who is a mix of Filipino. And now the Earth Kingdom is all Mexican so Toph will have to be Mexican.

 

[Neverfade]

He'll do whatever sells.

Given the fucking attrocious track record Sham has Id say you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone of this.

Avatar fans are going to watch this regardless of casting decisions.

BoycottersplayingMW2.jpg

 

[harSon]

Kinda lame. But like this guy said:


Well, sort of. It's both.

The whole thing is that minorities are underrepresented in these roles to begin with, making instances where characters of color are turned into white characters even worse.

Basically.

Minorities are underrepresented within roles that are "ethnic neutral", meaning that ethnicity has absolutely no significance within the character, which makes the "whitewashing" of characters intended to be minorities that much more significant.

 

[MiriamV]

Avatar fans are going to watch this regardless of casting decisions.

BoycottersplayingMW2.jpg

Yup. Regardless of my feelings about the casting, I will be going to Avatar in the cinema, simply because my 10 year old daughter has been looking forward to this movie for a long, long time. She's a big fan of the series, so I'd be a horrible parent not to take her.

We'll talk about the race issues afterwards ofcourse, and about why it's wrong that Holywood still whitewashes a lot of movies. I could not take her and "boycot" the movies, but all that that would result in is one sad little girl.


Zzoram, that is an interesting read about Ursula K. Le Guin's experience with the adaptation of her books. It's horrible how small the imput of the original artist really is, it must be dreadful to see things you find important in your work be written out and changed.

 

[Enosh]

The whole thing is that minorities are underrepresented in these roles to begin with, making instances where characters of color are turned into white characters even worse.

except the actor playing the norse god is black, who aren't an underrepresented minority in film and tv

 

[harSon]

except the actor playing the norse god is black, who aren't an underrepresented minority in film and tv

Would you mind posting that study again?

 

[Enosh]

Would you mind posting that study again?

http://www.sag.org/files/sag/documents/2007-2008_CastingDataReports.pdf

 

[Korey]

Well, sort of. It's both.

The whole thing is that minorities are underrepresented in these roles to begin with, making instances where characters of color are turned into white characters even worse.

Well, by "racial inaccuracies" I mean instances where Japanese characters are played by Korean actors, when a white character is played by a black actor, or one minority is played by a different minority, etc. There are people (trolls) in this thread who keep deflecting the argument back to instances of that, when that's not what we're talking about here at all. The debate is how Hollywood (blatantly or subtlely) marginalizes minorities in casting, period.

 

[harSon]

http://www.sag.org/files/sag/documents/2007-2008_CastingDataReports.pdf

Having glossed over it, I can say that the study in its current form is relatively useless in gauging the issue at hand. Simply comparing the percentage of a particular demographic with its population numbers can be a misleading statistic.

- The study doesn't give us a detailed enough breakdown, for example, what fraction of these percentages are lead roles, supporting roles, minor roles or background roles?

- While certain demographics are equally represented, are the majority of the roles disproportionately awarded to a select few?

- Have certain demographics simply recycled talent from past decades, or has there been an acceptable flow of new talent?

- Are these figures restricted to American actors? If not, the proportions they're using are useless considering it's a comparison between representation and that particular demographic's population within the United States.

And when talking about misrepresentation within Hollywood, it's important to differentiate between traditional Hollywood and certain institutions that were created with the sole intention of increasing minority representation within television and film. Taking that into the equation, we have to ask whether things like BET, Tyler Perry Productions or other forms of minority specific entertainment, are artificially beefing up these figures. Basically, if we were to remove these particular avenues of employment for minorities in the industry, would representation and the creation of new talent plummet or remain the same?

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Whoever I ended up with, I went that was their nationality. Suki was Jessica [Andres] who is a mix of Filipino. And now the Earth Kingdom is all Asian so Toph will have to be Asian.

That's weird, I thought th Earth Kingdom were the only white characters un the show.

 

[MWS Natural]

Edit: And for some further reading regarding the topic of the thread, here is a piece written by Ursula K. Le Guin, author of the Earthsea series, and her thoughts on the miniseries adaptation of it: http://slate.com/id/2111107/

Good read.

I think it is possible that some readers never even notice what color the people in the story are. Don't notice, don't care. Whites of course have the privilege of not caring, of being "colorblind." Nobody else does.

So true. I get so tired of that, "Race is only a problem because you choose to see it!!" shit I always here white people say. I love how people continue to harp on a few films where a black actor is playing a white role vs YEARS of Hollywood whitewashing. The same way its nearly impossible for a dark skinned black woman to get any major role. Good luck unless you are either white or light-skinned.

 

[harSon]

Good read.


So true. I get so tired of that, "Race is only a problem because you choose to see it!!" shit I always here white people say. I love how people continue to harp on a few films where a black actor is playing a white role vs YEARS of Hollywood whitewashing. The same way its nearly impossible for a dark skinned black woman to get any major role. Good luck unless you are either white or light-skinned.

Yup, really pisses me off. As does someone telling people what they should and should not be offended by.

 

[mjc]

I'm pretty sure that the creators said that the different nations were each comprised of various races. I don't have time to read the last 10+ pages but this whole discussion seems pretty ridiculous to me. If Shyamalan casted these kids based on their talent like he claims to have done, then there isn't an issue in my mind. I'd rather have a capable child actor rather than someone who they hire just so that they look exactly like the characters in the show. If you're gonna go that route you're probably gonna get shot down because, just as an example, Mae Whitman voiced Kitara in the show and she's about as white as it comes. If your enjoyment of the movie depends on the racial consistency to the TV show, then you've gotta sit down and reevaluate some stuff. I would have loved to have seen the movie be as faithful to the show as possible, but it simply wasn't going to happen if they want to make it marketable to the masses.

Alternatively if you're getting riled up about this because you think Hollywood and Shyalaman are being racist...you can certainly think that if you want. You wouldn't be completely wrong but I doubt they did it on purpose. You can't seriously think that they sat down and said "hmmmmm lets cast all the good characters with white kids and make Zuko and the Fire Nation leaders be of other races. It'll be perfect!" The TV show will always be there and remain untouched by this, and you'll still be able to enjoy that just the same.

 

[Zoe]

That's weird, I thought th Earth Kingdom were the only white characters un the show.

Which tells me he's casting with a color-blind agenda.

 

[Zzoram]

Having glossed over it, I can say that the study in its current form is relatively useless in gauging the issue at hand. Simply comparing the percentage of a particular demographic with its population numbers can be a misleading statistic.

- The study doesn't give us a detailed enough breakdown, for example, what fraction of these percentages are lead roles, supporting roles, minor roles or background roles?

- While certain demographics are equally represented, are the majority of the roles disproportionately awarded to a select few?

- Have certain demographics simply recycled talent from past decades, or has there been an acceptable flow of new talent?

- Are these figures restricted to American actors? If not, the proportions they're using are useless considering it's a comparison between representation and that particular demographic's population within the United States.

And when talking about misrepresentation within Hollywood, it's important to differentiate between traditional Hollywood and certain institutions that were created with the sole intention of increasing minority representation within television and film. Taking that into the equation, we have to ask whether things like BET, Tyler Perry Productions or other forms of minority specific entertainment, are artificially beefing up these figures. Basically, if we were to remove these particular avenues of employment for minorities in the industry, would representation and the creation of new talent plummet or remain the same?

That's the title of page 9 shows breakdown by role type. Supporting roles are roughly equivalent to the population demographics, while leading roles overrepresent caucasians.

Considering the Screen Actor's Guild of America collected the data, this would be data on their members.

Yep, there is a lot of black-specific entertainment that is beefing up their numbers.

 

[Zzoram]

I'm pretty sure that the creators said that the different nations were each comprised of various races. I don't have time to read the last 10+ pages but this whole discussion seems pretty ridiculous to me. If Shyamalan casted these kids based on their talent like he claims to have done, then there isn't an issue in my mind. I'd rather have a capable child actor rather than someone who they hire just so that they look exactly like the characters in the show. If you're gonna go that route you're probably gonna get shot down because, just as an example, Mae Whitman voiced Kitara in the show and she's about as white as it comes. If your enjoyment of the movie depends on the racial consistency to the TV show, then you've gotta sit down and reevaluate some stuff. I would have loved to have seen the movie be as faithful to the show as possible, but it simply wasn't going to happen if they want to make it marketable to the masses.

Alternatively if you're getting riled up about this because you think Hollywood and Shyalaman are being racist...you can certainly think that if you want. You wouldn't be completely wrong but I doubt they did it on purpose. You can't seriously think that they sat down and said "hmmmmm lets cast all the good characters with white kids and make Zuko and the Fire Nation leaders be of other races. It'll be perfect!" The TV show will always be there and remain untouched by this, and you'll still be able to enjoy that just the same.

Patel was casted as Zuko (after complaints, before they had casted only whites for all the main roles, including Zuko and his family) even though he looks like Sokka in the cartoon. He doesn't look anything like Zuko. If they wanted Patel, it would've made more sense to make him Sokka.

 

[The Storyteller]

I'm pretty sure the director isn't the one writing the casting calls.

I didn't say he was, but he's the freaking director, he would've known about the casting calls. The fact is they did not even try to find actors of the correct ethnicity to start with, when there was clearly a lot of places they could've gone to first before releasing a casting call that almost specifically asked for caucasians. I think there is enough evidence here that proves the casting of all the supporting cast was made after all the controversy and Shyamalan is clearly using the old hollywood defense of finding "the best actors for the part." Which is fine, but the characters enthnicty is an incredibly important part of the world, I struggle to believe how people can't see this.

Let's put this into perspective using an old example, if Avatar had been based around African cultures and all the characters were black, and then whitewashed for the film....while still keeping most of the cultural aesthetics the cartoon had...what would you think then? Would you really believe Shyamalan when he says he was looking for the best actors for the part?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Just to throw a wrench (or some fuel) on this debate, but i was watching Hollywood Homicide on Starz this morning (don't ask why, its that shitty Harrison Ford buddy cop flick) and it seemed like every african american minor role was played by someone famous. Some informant was played by Kurupt. His mom was played by Gladys Knight. Even some random cab driver was played by Smokey Robinson. Its something that happens fairly commonly, you'll see a rapper doing a shitty job of playing some random gangster or drug dealer (Game in Street Kings for example). Aren't those roles that could go to ACTUAL minority actors?

 

[Zoe]

If they wanted Patel, it would've made more sense to make him Sokka.

But then they wouldn't be able to cast the girl they wanted as his sister.

 

[Zzoram]

The original Airbender tattoos follow the flow of chi in the body – the creators have stated that this is why the tattoos glow when Aang is in the avatar state. The film tattoos have been heavily modified to separate it from this Eastern influence.

Director M. Night Shyamalan has cited the original series’ Buddhist, Hindu, and Asian influences as one of the attractive features of The Last Airbender project:

I loved the characters in the story and I felt like I could be me inside this larger canvas of this very long-form movie [...] Cultural differences at the center. It has Buddhism, Hinduism, things I’m interested in.”
-M. Night Shyamalan, June 2008

I love martial arts and the Japanese culture. This particular piece has an intensely spiritual Buddhist substory that I really dug.”
-M. Night Shyamalan, April 2008

Despite such statements, could these alterations mean that he has chosen to incorporate more Christian imagery into the story?

I would consider the swap out of Buddhism with Christianity as another form of whitewashing.

 

[Plywood]

That's weird, I thought th Earth Kingdom were the only white characters un the show.

Actually the earth kingdom I would say is a variety of ethnicities for example Toph is asian and if her appearance didn't lead you on her full name is Toph Bei Fong, so there's no doubt she is asian. However King Bumi is.. well I don't know what ethnicity I'd say King Bumi is:

 

[JdFoX187]

Why? I don't particularly think they need to follow it. WWW is pretty much PoP. It's not really trying to be serious, it's just a big dumb action flick. I mean sure they could cast someone else, but not take Will Smith? The hottest new actor at the time? No different really than Jake for PoP. I think those roles are more open.

I'm definitely not on the Hollywood is racist bandwagon here, but I still don't understand the point in changing a character's race, sex, whatever. Wild Wild West was a horrible movie, yes. Part of that was due to the script, and the complete change of Jim West's character, thanks to casting Will Smith. Jim West was not a hip cowboy in the original series. Not to mention the idea of the President of the United States using a black man for the secret service in post-Civil War America is insane. It made no sense whatsoever.

Jake in the Prince of Persia isn't as bad as it initially looks. I haven't seen the movie yet, but at least he resembles the Prince from the games. Sure, you have to base the casting around what would work for the movie from a budgeting perspective as well, but there's no reason to go completely out of your way to completely change the character. I'd be saying the same thing if Will Smith was cast as Captain America or if a prolific white actor was cast as Blade or Luke Cage.

 

[JDSN]

Obviously christianwashing since the arrows of the original were meant to represent something something something closet racist ban this filth something.

 

[JDSN]

What do we all think of the black guy from The Wire playing a Norse God in Thor?

HOLY SHIT ELBA IS ON THOR, WIN!

 

[mjc]

I would consider the swap out of Buddhism with Christianity as another form of whitewashing.

notsureifserious.jpg

 

[KnightM7]

Who they cast as Aang is just following the rules of marketing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOM4AMV050A

Another example.
http://www.chrisrue.com/funcave/graphics/dora.jpg

 

[joetachi]

I had no problem with Aang being white but shits really hits the fan for me with Katara and Zuko then pushed to the deep end with every other race in the evil fire nation.

 

[Zzoram]

notsureifserious.jpg

Aang's tattoos are meant to indicate the flow of chi. They replaced it with a cross.

 

[KnightM7]

Patel was casted as Zuko (after complaints, before they had casted only whites for all the main roles, including Zuko and his family) even though he looks like Sokka in the cartoon. He doesn't look anything like Zuko. If they wanted Patel, it would've made more sense to make him Sokka.

Could it be that maybe Patel would rather be the main villain than the trusty sidekick?

Sure he's only known for one other movie but his paygrade probably demands a little more than a sokka role.

 

[Zzoram]

Could it be that maybe Patel would rather be the main villain than the trusty sidekick?

Sure he's only known for one other movie but his paygrade probably demands a little more than a sokka role.

In the mainstream world, the guy playing Sokka has more face recognition than Patel. Sokka is being played by a guy in Twilight, which did orders of magnitude better at the box office than Slumdog.

 

[Salazar]

Could it be that maybe Patel would rather be the main villain than the trusty sidekick?

Sure he's only known for one other movie but his paygrade probably demands a little more than a sokka role.

Stop hypothesising motivations for casting other than ice-blooded racism.

 

[KnightM7]

In the mainstream world, the guy playing Sokka has more face recognition than Patel. Sokka is being played by a guy in Twilight, which did orders of magnitude better at the box office than Slumdog.

I had to imdb it to make sure. The dude has like 1 line in twilight. His role in Avatar is actually an upgrade.

I believe the original choice for Zuko was Jesse McCartney. Who again is pretty famous Id say compared to the guy from twilight.

 

[Korey]

Could it be that maybe Patel would rather be the main villain than the trusty sidekick?

Sure he's only known for one other movie but his paygrade probably demands a little more than a sokka role.

It would be impossible for Patel to be cast as Sokka. Because then they would have to make Katara ethnic as well, and then 2/3 of the heroes and 3/4 of the main characters would be minorities...unless they made the villain white of course.

Stop hypothesising motivations for casting other than ice-blooded racism.

It's pretty clear from this thread and the other PoP thread that you're completely racist. No need to be passive aggressive about it.

 

[jdogmoney]

Stop hypothesising motivations for casting other than ice-blooded racism.

GAH ENTIRE ORIGINAL CAST OF AVATAR WAS WHITE AAAAAH

EDIT: Except Zuko.

 

[Byakuya769]

I didn't hear enough bitching about the Black Kingpin so I don't want to hear about this shit either.

You weren't looking for it then. So I don't want to hear your shit. As if blacks were happy that "we" got to be the fucking kingpin.

 

[Schmattakopf]

I don't have time to read the last 10+ pages but this whole discussion seems pretty ridiculous to me. If Shyamalan casted these kids based on their talent like he claims to have done, then there isn't an issue in my mind.

I would have a hard time believing that lineup is based on talent.

 

[The Storyteller]

It's gonna be so hilarious when all the leads in Airbender turn out to be terrible actors. :lol