Support NeoGAF

[Kinyou]

Well, in the Kane & Lynch movie will Lynch (white) be played by Jamie Foxx. So is that movie now blackwashed?

I say give the role to the best actor and not the one with the right skin color.

 

[Victarion]

lol? desert heat + skin = ...pale skin as a natural adaptation?

not sure if serious?

Dude, you have no idea, Persia is not just a desert like you would see in the movie.

Most cities were built on mountain bases, like this one:

 

[JdFoX187]

Well, in the Kane & Lynch movie will Lynch (white) be played by Jamie Foxx. So is that movie now blackwashed?

I say give the role to the best actor and not the one with the right skin color.

I've been following this thread a lot and this I don't understand to an extent. If a movie character is based off a already visualized character, whether it be described in books or on cartoon or video game, I think the movie adaptation should stay as close to that as possible.

If the character is black, it should be played by an person of dark skin color. If the character is Asian, it should be played by an Asian. It's as simple as that. I absolutely hated the fact Jim West was black in Wild Wild West. It didn't go along with the time of the movie whatsoever and changed the character completely. It just seems like common sense to take an adaptation of another medium and make the characters as close to their inspirations as possible.

 

[Kinyou]

I've been following this thread a lot and this I don't understand to an extent. If a movie character is based off a already visualized character, whether it be described in books or on cartoon or video game, I think the movie adaptation should stay as close to that as possible.

If the character is black, it should be played by an person of dark skin color. If the character is Asian, it should be played by an Asian. It's as simple as that. I absolutely hated the fact Jim West was black in Wild Wild West. It didn't go along with the time of the movie whatsoever and changed the character completely. It just seems like common sense to take an adaptation of another medium and make the characters as close to their inspirations as possible.

You're right, the idea of making Jim West black was stupid because the movie was based in an time in which the Skin color was a great factor. And as you said the whole character was changed through the actors choice.

But there are examples in which the choice to take a non native was a great idea. Like "Ghandi".

Ben Kingsley was the only one who could pull off this role (imo).And it worked because they just put a bit make-up on him and treated him as a normal Indian.

As far as I know they did the same thing in the Prince of Persia movie and I'm fine with it.

Edit: Oh just read on Wikipedia that Ben Kingsley's Father was born in India, so my whole point has just been nullified :lol ...

Double Edit: Beaten by harSon

 

[harSon]

Ben Kingsley is half Gujarati-Indian, which is the same ethnic group as Gandhi.

 

[WillyFive]

lol? desert heat + skin = ...pale skin as a natural adaptation?

not sure if serious?

:lol

This reminds me of a Youtube comment about this very thing, saying that the Fire Nation would be darker because it's hot.

In reality, they would be lighter, because the ash cloud would block the sunlight, therefore no need for them to tan.

 

[The Main Event]

Well, in the Kane & Lynch movie will Lynch (white) be played by Jamie Foxx. So is that movie now blackwashed?

I say give the role to the best actor and not the one with the right skin color.

You're totally right, but the truth is that it ain't the case 99% of the time. Many scripts and casting decisions are already made with caucasian leads in mind, even if the ethnicity doesn't influence the role, leaving almost no room for minorities to break out of the usual secondary/extra parts unless your name is already established. So of course the casting directors will never see the potential ones. And how do some of those people break out of that loophole? Indy movies or overseas, a lot of the time, away from the typical Hollywood structure.

Diversity is part of the north american culture, and having Hollywood misrepresent it and ignoring it at this day and age is quite a concern.

 

[JDSN]

:lol I still cant believe I have been called a closet racist in a thread were people think Persia is a desert and the indian guy from Lost should have been the prince.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

 

[Plywood]

If you believe the interview with Shyamalan (which some people don't apparently), he was constantly changing up the races of the nations based upon who was in the top running. Water was going to be the hardest because they had to hire a pair of actors that worked as siblings.

For those who don't want to bother reading it, the final decisions were:
Water - Russian/European
Fire - Mediterranean
Earth - Asian
Air - mixed-race

I can buy that as a reason, its just y'know, it comes off as weird, when you don't hear a reason as to why and then you see this change. So thanks for the info.

 

[mjc]

This thread is pretty ridiculous.

 

[justjohn]

Probably one of the main reasons I don't bother with Hollywood movies these days. I see no point in giving my money to watch Corey and Becky romp around in their perfect white world where no minorities exist.

Hollywood studios have made it pretty clear In the last few years that they're not interested in the minorities money or their talent so it's only fair I respond accordingly.

 

[elrechazado]

Probably one of the main reasons I don't bother with Hollywood movies these days. I see no point in giving my money to watch Corey and Becky romp around in their perfect white world where no minorities exist.

Hollywood studios have made it pretty clear In the last few years that they're not interested in the minorities money or their talent so it's only fair I respond accordingly.

joke post?
:lol

 

[justjohn]

joke post?
:lol

You can laugh all you want but this huge.....

 

[Particle Physicist]

http://i48.tinypic.com/t9idzq.png

The Indian director purposefully made Indians villains because he hates Indians. Damn that self hating racist!

 

[Poyunch]

The Indian director purposefully made Indians villains because he hates Indians. Damn that self hating racist!

 

[harSon]

The Indian director purposefully made Indians villains because he hates Indians. Damn that self hating racist!

He doesn't put up the funding for the movie

 

[Puddles]

It's a shit anime anyway.

 

[Salazar]

:lol I still cant believe I have been called a closet racist in a thread were people think Persia is a desert and the indian guy from Lost should have been the prince.

What is more dazzling is the logic whereby the less racist something is, the more 'insidious' or 'subtle' or 'subliminal', or any of a vast roster of adjectives that imply deliberation and conscious prejudice, it becomes.

 

[Zzoram]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[NimbusD]

You mean Jake Gyllenhaal isn't Persian?

wtf

 

[Byakuya769]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

/thread

 

[Schmattakopf]

The Indian director purposefully made Indians villains because he hates Indians. Damn that self hating racist!

He'll do whatever sells.

It's a shit anime anyway.

Fuck yo couch.

 

[jett]

:lol I still cant believe I have been called a closet racist in a thread were people think Persia is a desert and the indian guy from Lost should have been the prince.

This thread is filled with retards.

 

[IrrelevantNotch]

Well, in the Kane & Lynch movie will Lynch (white) be played by Jamie Foxx. So is that movie now blackwashed?

Permanent marker'd

 

[shintoki]

I've been following this thread a lot and this I don't understand to an extent. If a movie character is based off a already visualized character, whether it be described in books or on cartoon or video game, I think the movie adaptation should stay as close to that as possible.

If the character is black, it should be played by an person of dark skin color. If the character is Asian, it should be played by an Asian. It's as simple as that. I absolutely hated the fact Jim West was black in Wild Wild West. It didn't go along with the time of the movie whatsoever and changed the character completely. It just seems like common sense to take an adaptation of another medium and make the characters as close to their inspirations as possible.

Why? I don't particularly think they need to follow it. WWW is pretty much PoP. It's not really trying to be serious, it's just a big dumb action flick. I mean sure they could cast someone else, but not take Will Smith? The hottest new actor at the time? No different really than Jake for PoP. I think those roles are more open.

 

[harSon]

Just got back from the film, gave a short review of it in the other thread. Just wanted to say that the casting was more ridiculous than I had previously thought. Not only were Jake Gyllenhaal and Gemma Arterton dreadful in their roles, but they simply did not look the part, especially the latter. It was going to take a lot more than a mere tan to blend them within the universe, unfortunately, that seemed to be the extent of their efforts to become their respected characters.

Edit: And for some further reading regarding the topic of the thread, here is a piece written by Ursula K. Le Guin, author of the Earthsea series, and her thoughts on the miniseries adaptation of it: http://slate.com/id/2111107/

 

[Particle Physicist]

He doesn't put up the funding for the movie

So? He still has a say in casting.

 

[Jex]

So? He still has a say in casting.

Presumably. But he also wants to make some monies.

Damnnn.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Presumably. But he also wants to make some monies.



Damnnn.

Presumably? :lol

Btw, can someone do a similar picture for the whole cast of the movie? I'm curious, I've never seen the cartoon, and I have no idea how large the cast is

 

[Jex]

The Indian director purposefully made Indians villains because he hates Indians. Damn that self hating racist!

But he did makes the cast white. Whatever his own ethnicity is plays no role. It's just typical Hollywood playing to a white audience.

Obviously it's nothing surprising, people bring this shit up every few years. Generally Hollywood has gotten a bit better about it, but not by a lot.

 

[jdogmoney]

My god. This is still a thing, I guess. That's...that's awesome...

 

[dabig2]

Okay, I admit. I had a good laugh there.

 

[Particle Physicist]

But he did makes the cast white.

From imdb's top cast listing: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0938283/


Jackson Rathbone ... Sokka (white)
Dev Patel ... Zuko (non-white)
Cliff Curtis ... Firelord Ozai (non-white)
Nicola Peltz ... Katara (white)
Seychelle Gabriel ... Princess Yue (non-white?)
Noah Ringer ... Aang (white)
Shaun Toub ... Uncle Iroh (non-white)
Jessica Andres ... Suki (non-white)
Aasif Mandvi ... Commander Zhao (non-white)
Dee Bradley Baker ... Appa / Momo (white voice)
Randall Duk Kim ... Old Man in Temple (non-white)
Ben Cooke ... Avatar Roku (white)
Ali Khan ... Ancient Firebender (non-white)
Katharine Houghton ... Gran Gran (white)
Keong Sim ... Earthbending Father (non-white)
Rohan Shah ... Young Prince Zuko (non-white)
Francis Guinan ... Master Pakku (white)
LA'Tino ... Hero Henchman (non-white)
J.W. Cortes ... Fire Lord Attendant (non-white)
Mayank Amin ... Ancient Fire Nation Soldier / Fire Nation Cyberscan 3D Model (non-white)
Jonathan Brunone ... Fire Nation Soldier (non-white)
Sammy Cesare ... Fire Nation Soldier (non-white?)



I dunno.. seems pretty mixed to me.

 

[Enosh]

Just got back from the film, gave a short review of it in the other thread. Just wanted to say that the casting was more ridiculous than I had previously thought. Not only were Jake Gyllenhaal and Gemma Arterton dreadful in their roles, but they simply did not look the part, especially the latter. It was going to take a lot more than a mere tan to blend them within the universe, unfortunately, that seemed to be the extent of their efforts to become their respected characters.

someone with a preconcived notion that the actors won't look right says the actors don't look right

I am shocked!

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why? I don't particularly think they need to follow it. WWW is pretty much PoP. It's not really trying to be serious, it's just a big dumb action flick. I mean sure they could cast someone else, but not take Will Smith? The hottest new actor at the time? No different really than Jake for PoP. I think those roles are more open.

Still makes a good point. At least in respect to recent works, there's no harm in trying to match the character's appearance with their original incarnations. In that above picture, I don't see any of the three actors compensating for the difference in skin tone with their physical features.

 

[Jex]

From imdb's top cast listing: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0938283/

I dunno.. seems pretty mixed to me.

Fair enough, 'white-er' would be a far fairer phrase.

But still, why was it necessary to cast white actors in these roles at all? Surely there would be plenty of other 'non-white' young actors to play these roles.

 

[Salazar]

But still, why was it necessary

It's a leap and an implicit accusation to say that it was necessary.

 

[Jex]

It's a leap and an implicit accusation to say that it was necessary.

If it wasn't necessary, why was it done? Nothing happens without a good cause.

I should hope that it was an explicit accusation.

 

[Plywood]

It's a shit anime anyway.

You don't even belong in this discussion, if this is all you have. You likely don't even like anime anyway, so why you don't go get the fuck out of this thread.

Presumably? :lol

Btw, can someone do a similar picture for the whole cast of the movie? I'm curious, I've never seen the cartoon, and I have no idea how large the cast is

Of the four here, only the two playing Iroh and Yue are in their outfits from the movie.

 

[Salazar]

If it wasn't necessary, why was it done? Nothing happens without a good cause.

I should hope that it was an explicit accusation.

Outcomes need neither good nor necessary causes. An explicit accusation just magnifies the error.

You've recommended some terrific anime in other threads. I don't want to argue.

 

[Plywood]

Fair enough, 'white-er' would be a far fairer phrase.

But still, why was it necessary to cast white actors in these roles at all? Surely there would be plenty of other 'non-white' young actors to play these roles.

If you read the article posted earlier in this thread, M Night said, that he picked whoever he thought was best for the role (for the main characters) ignoring race and then shaped the ethnicity of the nations/etc (Fire Nation, Water Tribe(s), Earth Nation, Air Nomad's) around those he had picked.


And just to quote the article: http://io9.com/5504967/shyamalan-addresses-airbenders-race-controversy-and-answers-your-questions

When we were casting, I was like, "I don't care who walks through my door, whoever is best for the part. I'm going to figure it out like a chessgame." Ideally we separate the nations ethnically — ideally. I didn't know how or what it was going to be. And it was so fluid.

 

[Zzoram]

Fair enough, 'white-er' would be a far fairer phrase.

But still, why was it necessary to cast white actors in these roles at all? Surely there would be plenty of other 'non-white' young actors to play these roles.

How many "non-white" actors that were in the movie isn't the main problem. It's the fact that they recasted all the main good guys to be white when they clearly weren't in the TV show, and made villains darker skinned than they were in the TV show. National (and therefore racial) tensions were a big part of the TV series and the casting they did was most certainly white-washing.

Patel would've made a much better Sokka than Zuko, he even looks goofy like Sokka and is darker skinned like Sokka.

 

[Jex]

If you read the article posted earlier in this thread, M Night said, that he picked whoever he thought was best for the role (for the main characters) ignoring race and then shaped the ethnicity of the nations/etc (Fire Nation, Water Tribe(s), Earth Nation, Air Nomad's) around those he had picked.

And just to quote the article: http://io9.com/5504967/shyamalan-addresses-airbenders-race-controversy-and-answers-your-questions

Yeah, that sounds like some bull-shit, frankly. Trying to cover his own backside after this whole thing got noticed.

I'm not saying it's a directors job to pick race over talent. But it seems unlikely that there weren't good non-white actors to play those main hero roles.

 

[The Storyteller]

If you read the article posted earlier in this thread, M Night said, that he picked whoever he thought was best for the role (for the main characters) ignoring race and then shaped the ethnicity of the nations/etc (Fire Nation, Water Tribe(s), Earth Nation, Air Nomad's) around those he had picked.


And just to quote the article: http://io9.com/5504967/shyamalan-addresses-airbenders-race-controversy-and-answers-your-questions

Except...look at the casting calls. The guy is clearly backpedalling and trying to use that as an excuse, even one of the producers admits it was a mistake and that they didn't even try to look for actors of the appropriate ethnicity (they could've been in contact with a multitude of asian american film casting groups).
Shyamalan's reasoning is completely at fault because their ethnicity was an important part of the cartoon, taking that away undermines the hybrid of asian cultures the show was clearly portraying.

How many "non-white" actors that were in the movie isn't the main problem. It's the fact that they recasted all the main good guys to be white when they clearly weren't in the TV show, and made villains darker skinned than they were in the TV show. National (and therefore racial) tensions were a big part of the TV series and the casting they did was most certainly white-washing.

On top of that, they didnt even do a lot of the casting for supporting roles until after all the controversy. Also, they had originally cast Zuko as some young pretty boy white dude, which would've by extension made his entire family white too, which is basically the entire cast.

 

[Zzoram]

Just got back from the film, gave a short review of it in the other thread. Just wanted to say that the casting was more ridiculous than I had previously thought. Not only were Jake Gyllenhaal and Gemma Arterton dreadful in their roles, but they simply did not look the part, especially the latter. It was going to take a lot more than a mere tan to blend them within the universe, unfortunately, that seemed to be the extent of their efforts to become their respected characters.

Edit: And for some further reading regarding the topic of the thread, here is a piece written by Ursula K. Le Guin, author of the Earthsea series, and her thoughts on the miniseries adaptation of it: http://slate.com/id/2111107/

On Tuesday night, the Sci Fi Channel aired its final installment of Legend of Earthsea, the miniseries based—loosely, as it turns out—on my Earthsea books. The books, A Wizard of Earthsea and The Tombs of Atuan, which were published more than 30 years ago, are about two young people finding out what their power, their freedom, and their responsibilities are. I don't know what the film is about. It's full of scenes from the story, arranged differently, in an entirely different plot, so that they make no sense. My protagonist is Ged, a boy with red-brown skin. In the film, he's a petulant white kid. Readers who've been wondering why I "let them change the story" may find some answers here.

When I sold the rights to Earthsea a few years ago, my contract gave me the standard status of "consultant"—which means whatever the producers want it to mean, almost always little or nothing. My agency could not improve this clause. But the purchasers talked as though they genuinely meant to respect the books and to ask for my input when planning the film. They said they had already secured Philippa Boyens (who co-wrote the scripts for The Lord of the Rings) as principal script writer. The script was, to me, all-important, so Boyens' presence was the key factor in my decision to sell this group the option to the film rights.

Months went by. By the time the producers got backing from the Sci Fi Channel for a miniseries—and another producer, Robert Halmi Sr., had come aboard—they had lost Boyens. That was a blow. But I had just seen Halmi's miniseries DreamKeeper, which had a stunning Native American cast, and I hoped that Halmi might include some of those great actors in Earthsea.

At this point, things began to move very fast. Early on, the filmmakers contacted me in a friendly fashion, and I responded in kind; I asked if they'd like to have a list of name pronunciations; and I said that although I knew that a film must differ greatly from a book, I hoped they were making no unnecessary changes in the plot or to the characters—a dangerous thing to do, since the books have been known to millions of people for decades. They replied that the TV audience is much larger, and entirely different, and would be unlikely to care about changes to the books' story and characters.

They then sent me several versions of the script—and told me that shooting had already begun. I had been cut out of the process. And just as quickly, race, which had been a crucial element, had been cut out of my stories. In the miniseries, Danny Glover is the only man of color among the main characters (although there are a few others among the spear-carriers). A far cry from the Earthsea I envisioned. When I looked over the script, I realized the producers had no understanding of what the books are about and no interest in finding out. All they intended was to use the name Earthsea, and some of the scenes from the books, in a generic McMagic movie with a meaningless plot based on sex and violence.

Most of the characters in my fantasy and far-future science fiction books are not white. They're mixed; they're rainbow. In my first big science fiction novel, The Left Hand of Darkness, the only person from Earth is a black man, and everybody else in the book is Inuit (or Tibetan) brown. In the two fantasy novels the miniseries is "based on," everybody is brown or copper-red or black, except the Kargish people in the East and their descendants in the Archipelago, who are white, with fair or dark hair. The central character Tenar, a Karg, is a white brunette. Ged, an Archipelagan, is red-brown. His friend, Vetch, is black. In the miniseries, Tenar is played by Smallville's Kristin Kreuk, the only person in the miniseries who looks at all Asian. Ged and Vetch are white.

My color scheme was conscious and deliberate from the start. I didn't see why everybody in science fiction had to be a honky named Bob or Joe or Bill. I didn't see why everybody in heroic fantasy had to be white (and why all the leading women had "violet eyes"). It didn't even make sense. Whites are a minority on Earth now—why wouldn't they still be either a minority, or just swallowed up in the larger colored gene pool, in the future?

The fantasy tradition I was writing in came from Northern Europe, which is why it was about white people. I'm white, but not European. My people could be any color I liked, and I like red and brown and black. I was a little wily about my color scheme. I figured some white kids (the books were published for "young adults") might not identify straight off with a brown kid, so I kind of eased the information about skin color in by degrees—hoping that the reader would get "into Ged's skin" and only then discover it wasn't a white one.

I was never questioned about this by any editor. No objection was ever raised. I think this is greatly to the credit of my first editors at Parnassus and Atheneum, who bought the books before they had a reputation to carry them.

But I had endless trouble with cover art. Not on the great cover of the first edition—a strong, red-brown profile of Ged—or with Margaret Chodos Irvine's four fine paintings on the Atheneum hardcover set, but all too often. The first British Wizard was this pallid, droopy, lily-like guy—I screamed at sight of him.

Gradually I got a little more clout, a little more say-so about covers. And very, very, very gradually publishers may be beginning to lose their blind fear of putting a nonwhite face on the cover of a book. "Hurts sales, hurts sales" is the mantra. Yeah, so? On my books, Ged with a white face is a lie, a betrayal—a betrayal of the book, and of the potential reader.

I think it is possible that some readers never even notice what color the people in the story are. Don't notice, don't care. Whites of course have the privilege of not caring, of being "colorblind." Nobody else does.

I have heard, not often, but very memorably, from readers of color who told me that the Earthsea books were the only books in the genre that they felt included in—and how much this meant to them, particularly as adolescents, when they'd found nothing to read in fantasy and science fiction except the adventures of white people in white worlds. Those letters have been a tremendous reward and true joy to me.

So far no reader of color has told me I ought to butt out, or that I got the ethnicity wrong. When they do, I'll listen. As an anthropologist's daughter, I am intensely conscious of the risk of cultural or ethnic imperialism—a white writer speaking for nonwhite people, co-opting their voice, an act of extreme arrogance. In a totally invented fantasy world, or in a far-future science fiction setting, in the rainbow world we can imagine, this risk is mitigated. That's the beauty of science fiction and fantasy—freedom of invention.

But with all freedom comes responsibility. Which is something these filmmakers seem not to understand.

When I first read the Earthsea books I was rather surprised that the protagonist wasn't white, since all the other fantasy books I read clearly made the protagonist white. Whitewashing happens, it's the truth. Even book publishers are wary of putting a non-white face on a book cover.

 

[Plywood]

Yeah, that sounds like some bull-shit, frankly.

*Shrugs shoulders*

It's either a valid reason, or a really good excuse.
edit:

Except...look at the casting calls. The guy is clearly backpedalling and trying to use that as an excuse, even one of the producers admits it was a mistake and that they didn't even try to look for actors of the appropriate ethnicity (they could've been in contact with a multitude of asian american film casting groups).
Shyamalan's reasoning is completely at fault because their ethnicity was an important part of the cartoon, taking that away undermines the hybrid of asian cultures the show was clearly portraying.


On top of that, they didnt even do a lot of the casting for supporting roles until after all the controversy. Also, they had originally cast Zuko as some young pretty boy white dude, which would've by extension made his entire family white too, which is basically the entire cast.

Wow, good excuse indeed. :|

 

[Prine]

Sir Ben Kingsley looked more persian then the others. Maybe because he's half indian, the mascara on him made him look badass.

 

[Veidt]

Im pretty sure the fire nation were based on the Chinese.

It seems that you would be content with ignoring the Inuit, just as long as youre not ignoring whites or asians right?

Ahh cool. I see.

Point still stands though, it's just as ridiculous to cast indians in the place of Chinese/mongol people.

Shyamlana fucked it up.

 

[Salazar]

It flew over my head that Quick Ben in the Malazan books was black. I had Paul Bettany all picked out to play him in the (never-happening) adaptation.