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'Airbender' & 'Prince of Persia' were 'whitewashed'

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WrikaWrek

Banned
Here's a curve ball that is going to fuck up the discussion here.

It's all fine and dandy, but we aren't talking about the bigger problem here. Female leads. That's right, you think it's bad for black actors? What about female leads, what about that. There's basically no big movies where the lead is female, let alone big ass budget movies. It always has to either be a kid, a young guy, or a man. But you can't go F on that. Always playing the female interest.

Not so long ago Warner Brothers canned a couple of projects (like Wonder Woman) because of that. A woman character carrying a movie?

But yeah, the most important thing here is that man has to have all its colors and accents and sizes represented in big roles. Then when Man is full, secondary matters like the Woman can be paid attention to.
 

harSon

Banned
I'll play along with your red herring.

Let's take it a step further. Female women of color. Or even further, female women of color who aren't representative of the "idealized" European perception of beauty that's rampant within our society.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
harSon said:
I'll play along with your red herring.

Let's take it a step further. Female women of color. Or even further, female women of color who aren't representative of the "idealized" European perception of beauty that's rampant within our society.

You mean this?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButNotTooBlack

Edit: I forgot to note that contrary to the articles description, it's not just for a majority white group. Black males fawn over these same women as the most beautiful of their race.
 

WrikaWrek

Banned
harSon said:
I'll play along with your red herring.

Let's take it a step further. Female women of color. Or even further, female women of color who aren't representative of the "idealized" European perception of beauty that's rampant within our society.


Don't see the need to take it further, when women period already have the problem. But sure, you wanna make it about race again, go ahead.

But hey, what about women, white women that aren't representative of the "idealized" european perception of beauty?

It's not like ugly white women are spear heading movies.
 

Salazar

Member
harSon said:
I'll play along with your red herring.

Let's take it a step further. Female women of color. Or even further, female women of color who aren't representative of the "idealized" European perception of beauty that's rampant within our society.

Idealising European beauty is a bad thing now ? Just how programmatic and self-recriminating is your ideal society ?
 

MWCShay

Member
harSon said:
I'll play along with your red herring.

Let's take it a step further. Female women of color. Or even further, female women of color who aren't representative of the "idealized" European perception of beauty that's rampant within our society.


It's funny that I've seen people argue Blacks are represented well enough percentage wise based on population. What about women then? There are more women then men aren't there?

I can't think of a woman ( that wasn't white) having the lead role in a big film in a while actually. Even still white women are underrepresented in movies too.
 

harSon

Banned
WrikaWrek said:
Don't see the need to take it further, when women period already have the problem. But sure, you wanna make it about race again, go ahead.

I don't see the need to divert attention away from the point of the thread. Sexism within Hollywood is definitely an issue that needs tending too, but I think the issue deserves a lot more than being utilized as a red herring.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
MWCShay said:
It's funny that I've seen people argue Blacks are represented well enough percentage wise based on population. What about women then? There are more women then men aren't there?

I can't think of a woman ( that wasn't white) having the lead role in a big film in a while actually. Even still white women are underrepresented in movies too.

Tyler Perry, Martin Lawrence, and Eddy Murphy take their jobs.
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
I guess its true that persian =/= arab, but I can also see middle eastern people being bummed out not having a summer blockbuster that gives them a hero in these times. Middle America rooting for a middle eastern dude might seem nice if you are an out of place feeling middle eastern kid.

I would have dug seeing Sayid from LOST in this bitch just because I would be curious if he could carry a leading role. At this point Gyllenhall barely has any draw power anyways.

That said, people who go on about Last Samurai never saw that turd.

Also, for fear of sounding a little racist or ethnist or whatever...
Do other races/cultures push people into acting as often as white culture does? Seems like a pretty "white" proffession (I mean this in the most self depreciating way)
 

harSon

Banned
Salazar said:
Idealising European beauty is a bad thing now ? Just how programmatic and self-recriminating is your ideal society ?

You sure are a master of twisting words aren't you? There's a MASSIVE FUCKING DIFFERENCE between simply admiring European beauty and idealizing it, ie. rendering it ideal over all other forms of beauty.
 

koam

Member
The one that always bugged me was Brad Pitt in Troy. He didn't look Greek at all. Eric Bana was a way better greek and he wasn't supposed to be.

I would have dug seeing Sayid from LOST in this bitch just because I would be curious if he could carry a leading role.

He sucks as an actor.

I can't think of a woman ( that wasn't white) having the lead role in a big film in a while actually

Ironically, the first one that came to mind was Halle Barry as Catwoman :lol
 

Salazar

Member
harSon said:
You sure are a master of twisting words aren't you? There's a MASSIVE FUCKING DIFFERENCE between simply admiring European beauty and idealizing it, ie. rendering it ideal over all other forms of beauty.

You're the one calling something widespread 'rampant'. It is, in any case, altogether natural for films and other forms of wish-fulfilling entertainment to inflate admiration into the ideal, harden preference into superiority, ignore or diminish what does not travel a direct and narrow route to pleasure and profits. That's what Hollywood exists to do. Deplore it, by all means.
 

WrikaWrek

Banned
harSon said:
I don't see the need to divert attention away from the point of the thread. Sexism within Hollywood is definitely an issue that needs tending too, but I think the issue deserves a lot more than being utilized as a red herring.

It matters because it's all connected to the commercial end. That's why women don't get leads in 200 million dollar movies.

Financing is given depending on multiple factors. It's not hard to understand, also don't think it's fair to say it's such a huge issue nowadays, when the biggest single star in Hollywood is black.

Misrepresentation is the biggest problem, and that isn't even being discussed. And all i'm saying is at the end of the day we are all assholes because we only truly care about what represents us, and that's why we as man almost don't give a fuck that women have it the toughest, and keep talking about how its racist that hollywood can't put a kid from the north pole spear heading a 200 million dollar movie.
 

Salsa

Member
21poster.jpg
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
harSon said:
I'll play along with your red herring.

Let's take it a step further. Female women of color. Or even further, female women of color who aren't representative of the "idealized" European perception of beauty that's rampant within our society.
I guess Typer Perry has the male woman of color angle covered.
 

harSon

Banned
WrikaWrek said:
It matters because it's all connected to the commercial end. That's why women don't get leads in 200 million dollar movies.

Financing is given depending on multiple factors. It's not hard to understand, also don't think it's fair to say it's such a huge issue nowadays, when the biggest single star in Hollywood is black.

Exceptions to a rule don't render the rule obsolete. Stepin Fetchit was one of, if not the most successful actors of the 20s and 30s, that didn't change the fact that the majority of minority actors were systematically oppressed at that time.

Misrepresentation is the biggest problem, and that isn't even being discussed. And all i'm saying is at the end of the day we are all assholes because we only truly care about what represents us, and that's why we as man almost don't give a fuck that women have it the toughest, and keep talking about how its racist that hollywood can't put a kid from the north pole spear heading a 200 million dollar movie.

I'm sympathetic to all forms of inequality, even when they do not directly effect me. I've frequented threads having to do with homophobia, sexism, religious intolerance, etc. But my participation within threads having to do with gender inequality is restricted to the number of threads about it, which unfortunately, doesn't amount to much.

And as I stated before, I'm not asking Hollywood to perfectly align an actor's ethnicity with that of the actual character. What I'm saying, is if Hollywood is going to go out of its way to create a movie that is factually incorrect from an ethnic standpoint, why can't they occasionally cast an actor or actress from a historically underrepresented demographic group, that at least looks the part without having to rely on hours of makeup. Because as it stands now, Hollywood doesn't do it at all.

Freshmaker said:
I guess Typer Perry has the male woman of color angle covered.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, I'm going to assume you are, but his films are are inclusive of a shitload of actresses in lead roles.
 

tino

Banned
True be told I am more offended by Jamie Foxx casted in the Billy Bob Thronton role in Kane and Lynch, because race actually matters in that character's personality.

Prince of Persia? Who the fuck cares? It was designed by a canadian video game developer that is owned by a European game publisher who is specialized in making pseudo American miltitary games just for the sake of profit. I say is pretty faithful to the source.

As for Air bender? Didn't that stupid lame ass of a director optioned the series just so he could use the word "Avatar" in the title and blackmail James Cameron/Fox for some rename money? Why bring up the race card when you can just blame M. Night Shyamalan? It is always M. Night Shyamalan fault. :lol
 
WrikaWrek said:


that Nick Fury is from the Ultimate line of Marvel comics. Nick Fury is not popular in a mainstream audience but is well known among comic book fans so it was ok to go with Samuel L. Jackson (who gave permission to have his likeness used in the Ultimates comic books)
 
This is a really interesting subject. I remember JJ. Abrams speak recently about the casting of Star Trek, and even Bryan Singer several years back in regards to choosing Clark Kent for the role of Superman, in that there is an urge for some directors to actually move away from the cliché of hiring an A-list celebrity "face" to sell a movie by trying to find aspects of the character they are trying to portray in those rehearsing for the role. Now, obviously appearance is a massive part of it but so is whatever "spark" or "chemistry" the producers/director sees in you; you need the talent to fit the role.

Chris Pike and Brandon Routh were, in most people's opinion, fantastic in hindsight in their chosen roles. But Singer and Abrams had tremendous faith in their films, either because of the quality or simply because of their brand power. If the higher ups involved in a production do not have great faith in the script and production values of a film, they will place emphasis on category (A-List) of actors and actresses they want to ensure revenue. They may simply be unwilling to take the risk.

Ultimately though we can't judge until we have seen PoP and The Last Airbender. What if the main leads perform great? One thing is for certain though, if ethnic minority actors/actresses have the talent, with a lot of luck, they will be spotted and hopefully get their chance. It would be interesting to see though the ratio of talent pool in Hollywood in terms of ethnicity. I wouldn't be surprised if Hispanics and Blacks were under represented.

Here is an article from 1997 heralding the start of a new era where black actors were now becoming the leading roles. This is only 13 years ago.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
harSon said:
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, I'm going to assume you are, but his films are are inclusive of a shitload of actresses in lead roles.
Nah, it's just that female woman is redundant. The only reason to use both terms if you need to distinguish between that and something else like male woman actors. TP's the closest thing I could come up with that'd address that distinction.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
ollin said:
Didn't read the review but Collider gave Prince of Persia an F. I hope Airbender bombs as well. :lol
It’s Pirates of the Caribbean if Pirates of the Caribbean was dull, moronic, lazy, and starred characters you hated.

I'm confused....isn't that EXACTLY what Pirates of the Caribbean is?
 

Dead

well not really...yet
Meh. All 3 are the same. Dull and terribly long, dumb, loud and with annoying main characters.
 
Eh I think he still had his moments in the horrible sequels. The Davy Jones Locker scene in the third film is still one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in a major blockbuster :lol

And nah, Bloom and Knightley were clearly secondary characters.
 

AkuMifune

Banned
Yeah, the first was awesome, and very grounded comparatively. The Matrix syndrome all over again. The action was taken a bit more seriously and it made all the difference. The sequels are complete garbage though and did their best to ruin anything the first accomplished.
 
Yeah I have the 2nd and 3rd BluRays lying around yet I've never popped them in. I haven't seen the films since they hit the theaters lol.

A sign of some really shit films (and agreed with Mifune, Matrix shit all over again).
 

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
why does everyone forget Mr.Gibbs? Handsdown the greatest character in the franchise next to Barbosa.

200px-Gibbs300px.PNG


one liners include:
-HEAVE! HEAVE LIKE YOU'RE BEING PAID FOR IT!
-EVERY MAN WORTH HIS SALT!
-FOR THE LOVE OF MOTHER AND CHILD!
 

Dead

well not really...yet
The 4th movie could genuinely be an improvement.

The cast is already much much better. If Rob Marshall delivers a better paced film that doesnt feel like 3+ hours, live Verbinksi, I'm sure it will be enjoyable.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Dead said:
Bloom and Knightley had far more screentime.

Sparrow got mad dull by the 2nd film too.
Actually, your right that Bloom and Knightley were constantly seemingly forced into the front, with Will's past and Knightley's knightliness. Which I did not like in the sequels, and to a degree Jack was less enjoyable in the sequels because they started catering his lines, where as in the original he created a different character out of the script that was given to him.
 

Veidt

Blasphemer who refuses to accept bagged milk as his personal savior
I seriously want Mr.Gibbs. Even more than Sparrow himself. :lol
 

MiriamV

Neo Member
Well, here's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

Prince of Persia:

Jake Gyllenhaal is miscast. The first time I saw him as PoP my first impression was "Jake dressed up as PoP for Haloween". In the rest of the pictures I've seen I simply see Jake Gyllenhaal, not PoP. Maybe it's better in the movie rather then in still shots, but for me he doesn't really become the part rather then stay the actor.

So who should have been cast?

Someone ethnically correct would have been nice. But from reading this thread, even those who argue for this are not sure what a Persian looks like. For most people Persian=Arabian=Iraq/Iran probably.

So we get nominated this guy:

lost_sayid2.jpg


Physically he fits the part, he has the right bodyshape. Ethnically he's not actually Persian, but he'll fit in with the Persian=Arabian=Iraq/Iran/Indian-can-get-away-with-this-look-too.
Now, I haven't watched Lost, and this seems to be the most commonly used picture of the man, but, he doesn't do it for me as PoP either.
His face has this hang-dog quality to it, he doesn't seem hansome enough either.

Them someone suggest this fellow:

hrithik_roshan_movie_krissh.jpg


Hey, that's more like it! He has the physique, the rogueish good looks, and arguably the right ethnic background. And, he's hot!
But... he's an unknown.
"A summer blockbuster popcorn movie with Hrithik Roshan" does not have the same ring to it as a "summer blockbuster popcorn movie with Jake Gyllenhaal".

There are more movie goers then videogame players, so it would be safe to assume that a lot of people will go and see this movie for the sake of seeing a good adventure movie, rather then to see their favorite video game adapted for the big screen.
For the larger audience, Jake Gyllenhaal will be what draws them into the cinema. They won't care if the casting is ethnically correct, or even if they main actor remotely resembles the video game character.

Besides that, going with the Persian=Arabian=Iraq/Iran train of thought: at the moment it seems a lot of people feel Persian=Arabian=Iraq/Iran=Islamitic=terrorist=us vs them.
Having the main hero being of arabic background wouldn't sit well with a large audiance because at the moment, they are considered the bad guys.
(not that I agree with that myself, but it is a thought that's out there.)

As for the Legend of Aang, Avatar the last airbender:


avatar-the-last-airbender.jpg
avatar-pics-cast-movie.jpg


When I first read Aang was played by a white boy, it didnt' seem right. But when I look at the pictures and the videos released, I have to admit the actor does resemble the cartoon character a lot. He has the right feel to him, unlike Jake Gyllenhaal in PoP.
The same with Sokka, he has the same curved mouth for example.
Katara seems wrong to me, she's too pale and too wishy-washy. She's a Michelle-Trachtenberg-lookalike-kid that Holywood seems to like so much, but that makes her unfit for the part. To play Katara she'd need at least a tan, and a bit more spunk. They should have recast her. Unlike PoP, where thi big name is ment to pull in the audience, here every lead is an unknown, so she at least could have well been more etnically correct.
We don't know who auditioned though, this may have been all they had to work with?

Neither movie is historically acurate, both are fantasy. It would have been nice if the actors cast were etnically acurate though.
Hopefully one day there will be a big enough pool of wellknown actors to pull from when a different etnicity then Caucasian or african (or African-American) is called for.
But for now, Holywood casts what the mayority likes to see, and they still believe the mayority likes to see white actors (or Will Smith) in the lead roles.
 
Honestly I don't care if they cast Jet Li as the Prince, I just wanted a good movie.

And from what I've heard, it's a piece of crap.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
@MiriamV, The guy they picked for Sokka actually comes off as a good Sokka. I think the Kitara could've been picked better. The changing the Fire Nation etchinicity comes off as odd to me, (You change the Fire Nation to tanned, but the Water Tribe to White? wtf) but if the guy who plays Zuko can capture the character, I'll be happy. Lastly, they picked a pretty good Aang.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Prince_of_Persia_Sands_of_Time.jpg


Seriously, if you'd told me it's Prince of Wales, I would've bought it. I can't see how an Arab-looking actor could pull off a better representation of the videogame-character, from an ethnic point of view.

princeofpersia_1.jpg


Shape of face, eyes, skintone, muscularity, look, everything matches as far as you can match a videogamecharacter.

I agree that Hollywood seems to prefer caucasians over ethnic minorities. Would I like to see a diverse range of actor ethnicity? Yes. Do I need it? Not really. Does anyone? Probably not. Would Prince of Persia be a better movie if an ethnic actor played the part? Hell no.
Here's an idea for Hollywood, free of charge: make a movie about a CIA-agent and have him played by that Sayid-dude from Lost. The part of the audience that automatically assume he's an undercover terrorist will be confronted with their own prejudice when they see the end and Sayid knocks out Jack Bauer who was planning to blow up Los Angeles because he was fed up with saving it's ass for so many goddamned times.
 
I had an interesting discussion about Middle Eastern culture, and how we've taken to it lately.


Aladdin(Disney) is one of those films where the beauty of the middle east shined through - Beautiful, and exotic, a combination of East and West. The nicely designed characters with a soft skin tone. I think Aladdin and Jasmine almost looks like a mixture of Thai and European ethinicity.



I loved Prince of Persia(2008) because it took Middle Eastern fantasy and made it look so cool. Some people felt the prince looked like a clown, in his red/blue contrast ripped outfit, but I loved everything visually about that game.

Elika, was incredible beautiful and sexy, and the fonts and UI, and monster designs and the world. Wauw. It was so good.

Someone like David Belle(District 13) would have been able to have done some great acrobatics. He is "White" but he, looks more toned, and has a mediterranian look. He might only speak french though.
haha, PoP in french would be sweet. PoP is after all.. made by Ubisoft, which are frenchies:)
 
Vigilant Walrus said:
Someone like David Belle(District 13) would have been able to have done some great acrobatics. He is "White" but he, looks more toned, and has a mediterranian look. He might only speak french though.
haha, PoP in french would be sweet. PoP is after all.. made by Ubisoft, which are frenchies:)
Apparently he helped with stunt coordination for PoP.
 
Late response, but Jamie Foxx as Lynch? I don't really care about the series, but it's not exactly an old-enough series where you can take liberties like that.
 

BowieZ

Banned
neorej said:
Here's an idea for Hollywood, free of charge: make a movie about a CIA-agent and have him played by that Sayid-dude from Lost. The part of the audience that automatically assume he's an undercover terrorist will be confronted with their own prejudice when they see the end and Sayid knocks out Jack Bauer who was planning to blow up Los Angeles because he was fed up with saving it's ass for so many goddamned times.
:lol Man, the extreme political correctness of that idea, as great as it is, would be more controversial than hunky tan moneydraw Gyllenhaal playing a Persian.
 
harSon said:
I'll play along with your red herring.

Let's take it a step further. Female women of color. Or even further, female women of color who aren't representative of the "idealized" European perception of beauty that's rampant within our society.
Most of Tyler Perry's motion picture films. Do perms count :lol

Supposedly with the success of the SATC films, there might be a Girlfriends film too (UPN/CW series, look it up)
 

Zoe

Member
Plywood said:
(You change the Fire Nation to tanned, but the Water Tribe to White? wtf)

If you believe the interview with Shyamalan (which some people don't apparently), he was constantly changing up the races of the nations based upon who was in the top running. Water was going to be the hardest because they had to hire a pair of actors that worked as siblings.

For those who don't want to bother reading it, the final decisions were:
Water - Russian/European
Fire - Mediterranean
Earth - Asian
Air - mixed-race
 

Victarion

Member
"It's not only insulting to Persians, it's also insulting to white people. It's saying white people can't enjoy movies unless the protagonist is white," he said.
WHAT THE FUCK is this shit?
It would have been an insult to Persians, if an Arab looking dude played as Prince.

I can also see middle eastern people being bummed out not having a summer blockbuster that gives them a hero in these times.
People need to realize this is Persia, not the Prince of Middle East. :lol And also ethnic Persian are white with dark brown hair.
 
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