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'Airbender' & 'Prince of Persia' were 'whitewashed'
- Thread starter The Main Event
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Except this isn't really an opinion driven debate. They are either drawing white people or aren't. It has nothing to do with what you personally assume is going on. If you ask a Japanese artist why all they draw are white people, you're going to get a very confused look.Meier said:
It's ok to be wrong. You made completely asinine assumptions and are now backed into a corner where you just appear more racist with every additional post you make. That's why I asked you to stop, but ok, keep arguing over something that's not even up for debate.
The Frankman
Banned
Who the heck is backed into a corner?
Korey said:
Hence the usage of "white." Whether they are consciously doing it or not is irrelevant. The foundation of the art style was trying to capture a white character's aesthetic. Not much has changed.
You've literally just made the biggest reach in the history of this forum. Congratulations.Korey said:
harriet the spy
Member
Angry Grimace said:
Lol, I don't read that much anime to be honest (but I 'passively' see a lot on the net), I was thinking of Sailor Moon :lol
i watched a bit of sailor moon as a kid.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Sure, but that article covers a lot of things which aren't the point.Trojita said:
The argument being made is that anime characters are drawn to explictly look white, when they are in fact, not. It's a cultural bias to believe that. They are drawn to look like cartoon characters and Japanese people living in Japan don't necessarily view them as "white" at all.
harriet the spy
Member
Korey said:
While I think I mostly agree with you and Grimace, just for the sake of the argument - reading that excellent article by Matt Thorn, I think the other side argues that the desire to be white is subconscious - so it doesn't really matter that anime/manga artists claim to be drawing japanese characters or not (i am not saying they are drawing white characters at all, though).
Also calling Meier racist is a uncalled for imo. Overusing words waters them down. He hasn't said anything explicitly racist.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That has more to do with the fact that the 5 primary Sailors needed look different without looking alien.harriet the spy said:
It's the same reason they get purple/white/green hair and nobody comments on it; because in reality, most Asian people have black hair and manga isn't in color, so it becomes hard to differentiate between characters.
There's a manga called Claymore where everyone has the same color hair and almost nobody can tell who is who at any given time. The only way to know who is who is by hairstyle, which is almost impossible.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't think you're coming off as racist, myself. It's more that you're ignoring the fact that another culture perceives something different than yours. The cultural implication in how anime characters look only exists through a Western Eye.Meier said:
And the foundation of the argument that Osamu Tezuka was drawing "white people" isn't accurate either. He was drawing a cartoon character. It's a reach to assume that over many generations of mangaka, everyone wanted to draw white people, when in reality they were just copying the same style that each other had.
I agree with this 100% and it is in fact my point. It's more of a subconscious thing that has resulted from the fact that aesthetic has not changed significantly since its inception. It is why I specifically said they were "white" people, emphasis on the quotation marks.Angry Grimace said:
Let's use an example I am familiar with -- oasis. People frequently likened them to The Beatles for any number of reasons. If a young Mancunian kid decided to start a band with his friends where they aped oasis' sound, demeanor, clothing, hair, etc., one might easily think they were in fact being influenced by The Beatles even if the kid told you until he was blue in the face that Our Kid was his absolute hero and Macca could go fuck himself.
The movie wouldn't have been made if it weren't Jake or some other actor that the general viewing public knows. People want video game movies that aren't complete embarassing schlock like Uwe Boll produces, but they don't want them to have noteable stars who can bring in viewers which will help offset the necessary cost to do the story justice.Raydeen said:
spiderman123
Member
why do i havea gut feeling PoP is gonna suck, shut the fuck up gut
Reviews are fairly middling but it appears as if it's decent enough. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prince_of_persia_sands_of_time/ -- 48% currently.spiderman123 said:
kame-sennin
Member
The, "we picked the best actor for the job" argument is the most offensive, subversively racist argument I've ever heard, and it manages to show up in every thread like this. The overwhelming majority of films star white actors. The overwhelming majority of films set in foreign countries star white actors. The overwhelming majority of films with non-white characters... star white actors. In all of these cases, it was always the best actor who got the lead? So are minority performers just not talented, or are they just not looking for work? I can tell you that the latter is certainly false.
And that's not even looking at the historical precedent of casting white actors and then using make-up to make them look like people of color. Are we arguing that this particular trend when out of fashion and, seemingly overnight, Hollywood reformed to a colorblind casting system. A system that still, predominantly casts white actors?
And that's not even looking at the historical precedent of casting white actors and then using make-up to make them look like people of color. Are we arguing that this particular trend when out of fashion and, seemingly overnight, Hollywood reformed to a colorblind casting system. A system that still, predominantly casts white actors?
Korey said:
Make a controversial statement then run away when called out on it? Yep, I'm in the OT alright.
And if calling someone else out for quoting "name a Persian/Iranian" actor and then responding with an Indian dude (who looks stereotypically Iranian in a modern mass media Iranian kind of way) makes me a racist, so be it.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Just play the damn game if you want to see that story, really. At least you get to have some fun that way. I can't think of a single game that will translate well to movie.yacobod said:
And before someone busts out an "uncharted," we already had three Indiana Jones movies that didn't suck.
"of late"? The Ultimates started in 2002 and the Sam Jackson version appeared before that. Complaining about Jackson as Fury (when the only other on-screen representation of Fury that comes to mind is the unwatched titular movie staring Night Rider) shows that you've generated strong opinions with a total lack of factual backing.Davidion said:
DryEyeRelief
Member
Meier said:
This whole anime characters are white argument...I know my stance on it. The hair color aesthetic isn't random. From my experience, characters who are yellow haired and blue eyed are more common than, blue hair and yellow eyes.
But I don't really understand what you're getting at. Because the foundation of cartoons was based off illustrating Caucasian characters, means that it's appropriate to call them all white in the aesthetic sense?
Are Asian people supposed to look like Karate from batfink?
I don't think Caucasians have ownership to all cartoons that were inspired by Disney and ultimately agree with Grimace with the clod statement.
kame-sennin
Member
Salazar said:
The key word is "subversive". "We cast the best actor" is right up there with, "you're one of the good ones". The person who says it is not trying to be insulting or racist. They may not be racist at all. But they are still influenced by prejudiced beliefs that are part of our society at large. Please provide a counter argument instead of snark if my comment still bothers you.
kame-sennin
Member
Meier said:
Stop right there. I was talking about an argument that people often use. To wit:
TheOddOne said:
This comment does not appear to me to be about the financial prospects of a film. Whether or not white actors are more marketable has nothing to do with the specific argument I was referencing.
kame-sennin said:
Subversive implies deliberate racism, and you can't elect as your key word something that falls beyond your argument. Choose one you can use properly and defensibly. Otherwise, you are just handing out snark.
The more 'subversive' and 'subtle' and 'they don't even know they're thinking in that awful way' qualifiers are thrown out, to my mind, the less culpable Hollywood and the casting agencies become.
kame-sennin said:
Exactly.
You can tell when a post is spot on and beyond refutation by the lack of responses to it.
RubxQub said:
To be fair, Hollywood hasn't given society many chances to prove itself. Society could very well be willing to embrace minority actors, but we'll never know if Hollywood continues to cast films assuming the opposite.
Anyways, my biggest problem with the film industry is the fact that success within the industry, to certain extent, is dependent on the skin color you were born with. That's just incredibly fucked up no matter how you attempt to justify it.
If you want to see the differences in opportunity between a white actor and a non-white actor, look no further than people like Sam Worthington or Orlando Bloom. With the industry's current practices, you're never going to see a pseudo-talented non-white actor go from nothing to nothing but blockbusters in a short time window. The only non-white actor I can think of that fits that mold is Will Smith, and even he was a Grammy award winning television star before hitting the big screen.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Angry Grimace said:
Two.
harSon said:
My word. I won't sleep at night until the entertainment market is reconstituted ( perhaps against its economic interests, be they fair or foul, but we have justice on our side) to provide equal opportunities for actors of any race to ride summer blockbusters to momentary fame.
kame-sennin
Member
Salazar said:
I am not blaming any individual in Hollywood for this problem (although Shyamalan clearly shit the bed in this instance). I DON'T think casting directors or executives are racists. I do think they're ignorant, I think they fall prey to group-think, and I think they haven't stepped up to fix the problem:
harSon said:
DryEyeRelief
Member
Salazar said:
"You don't have a correct accusation" becomes "It's not that big of a deal".
Salazar said:
I just want equality period.
If you were to remove entirely minority driven films (Produced, directed and acted by minorities. ie. "All Black films"), which so many people seem to be vehemently against, do you realize just how horrible minority representation within Hollywood films would be? Hell, a significant chunk of the famous Black actors of today found their roots within these films, outside of the traditional Hollywood system. And Blacks, while dissproportionately underrepresented (I know there's a study stating otherwise, but from what I remember, "All Black" productions and foreign actors are included within the figure), are the most represented of all minority groups within the Hollywood system. Asians and Hispanics are significantly worse off, which is saying quite a bit.
You can continue to make light of the situation but you're just going to continue to come away looking like an insensitive douche.
DryEyeRelief said:
It does seem frivolous, yes, to complain that Hollywood isn't actively working against what folks acknowledge to be an ingrained shortcoming in society at large. The 'the bigger they are, the more responsibility they assume' argument is preposterous in proportion with its idealism. I expect an enormous mechanism designed to cater to the most superficial and unexamined wishes and expectations of audiences to reflect - not renegotiate - their attitudes.
kame-sennin said:
It's sort of a Catch 22. I believe audiences have shown a willingness to embrace "ethnic neutral" films starring a person of color, assuming this person is already proven (Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Forest Whitaker, etc.). The problem arises when you consider the fact that Hollywood seems unwilling to hire minority actors outside of those who are already established. I believe we're starting to already see the effects of this, for example, how many big name (Hollywood) minority actors can you name that have come onto the scene within the last decade? I can think of a few, but most a lot of them seem to be from over seas.
I think the industry is actually starting to regress, in terms of representation, the 70s to 90s seemed like a much better time for minority actors within this country. For the most part, we seem to be living off the actors who came to fruition through out that window in time.
harSon said:
You're saying pretty much what I have been saying in my post. Nobody actors get casted into huge roles all the time. They are just almost always white, I can't offhand think of anyone that wasn't.
A perfect opportunity rises to cast someone new, and instead we get more of the same.
Hmmm Aang is a little asian monk that was reincarnated, lets cast him as a little white child instead. Anyone here ever seen the golden child starring Eddie Murphy? That is how you cast a freaking kid that is a monk.
Saying it is going to the most talented actor is a complete crock. When you have guys like Keanu Reeves, Nicolas Cage and Mark Walhberg headlining huge blockbuster movies. You're gonna have to name me the equivolant of anything like that when it comes to a minority actor.
Then the problem with trying to say it is about reaching a bigger audience. Well how the hell would anyone know, since there really are no movies staring a minority with a ridiculously huge budget. If a Tyler Perry movie starring almost all minorities can make 60 million dollars, I'm quite sure Avatar starring some asian kid can make some serious dough too.
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