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[Busty]

What don't you get there? IF XBox 3 is 6x as powerful as 360 (which is not my suggestion but his) and WiiU is 3x as powerful as 360 then XBox 3 would be 2x as powerful as WiiU.

But my point is all these 'thumbnail mathematics' (2x power to the third power) just don't work in any sort of solid argument.

In practical terms what multiples of power is the 360 to the original Xbox? A console can really only be defined by the other consoles/platforms that exist on the market at the time.

So we know that the PS360 are much more powerful than the Wii. That's a fact.

And we know that the WiiU isn't a generational leap forward and thus isn't much more powerful than PS360. Certainly the gap between them isn't as big as the gap between the original Wii and the PS360.

It just makes more sense to me when we talk in this broad, yet ultimately more accurate, terms.

 

[AgentP]

So words from a director. Not a dev.

He got the memo from Nintendo probably.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Makes sense. It should be more powerful than PS360, but obviously not comparable to a top of the line PC.

 

[Raoh]

Doesn't mean much to me as long as it runs.


I'd be more impressed if devs were allowed to spend time with each platform separately to dedicate to each consoles strenghts and weaknesses.

Making everything on par across the board I think is what has made this generation less than stellar.

I think back to GTA's for ps2 and xbox and recall xbox looking better not just because the xbox had more power but because the devs made it work for the xbox it wasn't just a port, that is if I remember that scenario correctly.

I would be more than happy to be last to receive a game if it meant it would run at its best possible performance.

 

[Busty]

Makes sense. It should be more powerful than PS360, but obviously comparable to a top of the line PC.

Please tell me this is a typo.

*shakes sarcasm detector*

 

[guek]

Another vague comment, another thread full of the usual suspects.

 

[Donnie]

But Wii U isn't 3 times as powerful as 360. Sorry, I'm really struggling to see your point here. You basically said, "he'd be completely wrong if this incredibly unlikely chain of events happened."

Yes. Yes, I guess I would. Kind of how I'd be wrong if I said the sun won't come out tomorrow.

How on earth do you know what?? Please give me the WiiU spec sheet because I'd love to see it. My point was to give an example of why its idiotic to make the kind of assumptions he's making.

 

[JWong]

Yep. Nope.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

There's a reason he said late in the cycle other then early in the next cycle.

The bolded is what Epic have stated, what is the reason for ignoring that?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Again, this is Nintendo's next generational console. I don't care if this thing is as weak as the Wii is. This IS the next generation Nintendo console just as the PS4 will be Sony's and the next Xbox will be Microsoft's next generation console. The innards don't define that. The very fact its the NEXT release is what defines it. The Wii was the next gen console for Nintendo in 2006 even though it was barely a step up from the previous gen.

So the SG-1000 and Master System, for example, are actually a generation apart by your logic and not part of the third generation consoles as it is generally considered.

 

[theBishop]

Hot prediction: your prediction will be wrong.

As long as all three consoles do something different, you'll still have people claiming 'best version'. You will then of course have the ridiculous nonsense of 720/PS4 fans arguing which version is better (graphically), when both get absolutely smoked by PC and maybe other devices not too far down the road, like Steam box.

I don't know why people are trying to act all superior, indignant and pretentious as though this console wars shit hasn't always existed here. There are truly some obnoxious and unreasonable posters in these threads.

Assuming there is a version.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Please tell me this is a typo.

*shakes sarcasm detector*

There should be a 'not' somewhere in there, but it disappeared out into the ether

 

[Plinko]

Cannot wait until E3 so all of this insanity can end.

 

[Donnie]

But my point is all these 'thumbnail mathematics' (2x power to the third power) just don't work in any sort of solid argument.

In practical terms what multiples of power is the 360 to the original Xbox? A console can really only be defined by the other consoles/platforms that exist on the market at the time.

So we know that the PS360 are much more powerful than the Wii. That's a fact.

And we know that the WiiU isn't a generational leap forward and thus isn't much more powerful than PS360. Certainly the gap between them isn't as big as the gap between the original Wii and the PS360.

It just makes more sense to me when we talk in this broad, yet ultimately more accurate, terms.

But its not a solid argument, that's my point. He was making claims about generational leaps and I asked him what that meant. He brought up 6x 360 and I gave him an example using that terminology and asked if he still thought that was a generational leap.

To be honest the whole "generational leap" term is just as bad as the x terminology. I mean what is a generational leap anyway?

 

[crazygambit]

Well, you are crazy if you think it has the same type of processor of the iPad.

I don't. All I'm saying is that we didn't get much info from his comments. More RAM is a given and exactly what a really great processor is or even means for performance given we don't know, especially since we also don't know much about the GPU.

Concluding that the WiiU is more powerful than the PS360 based only on that seems a bit much. Especially since what he said could also apply to significantly inferior hardware like the iPad 3 (or even the Vita).

 

[shandy706]

I have a phone with more RAM than the 360 and PS3.

I have a Vita with more cpu "cores" (quad) than my 360 (triple).

Neither means they can outperform my 360/PS3.

I look forward to HD Zelda/Mario, but I suspect both Durango and Orbis will blow the Wii-U out of the water graphically/cpu wise.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Erm no... The person I replied to mentioned XBox3 possibly being 6x 360. I said that in that case if WiiU ends up 3 x 360 that would leave XBox3 only twice as powerful as WiiU which is hardly a generational leap. It did not say any of it was fact, I was giving him an example based on what he'd said.

By the way 3 x 360 is in no way unrealistic for WiiU. If you've been lead to believe otherwise then that comes down to you only being interested in rumours that match your views. I mean we know WiiU has at least 3x as much RAM as 360.

OK, let's try to keep this from becoming mere bickering.

I was led to believe, rightly or wrongly, that Wii U is roughly equivalent to current gen, power wise. That's what all the rumours, yes rumours, say, that's what the footage we've seen seems to suggest, and most importantly, that appears to be Nintendo's MO. Now if you have some compelling evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Now as I say, there are no concrete specs, and no official announcement. But as Nintendo have yet to refute the rumours, which they surely would if they were vastly underselling their future product, and for all the reasons stated above, I think it's safe to assume that around current gen is a safe bet. Do you disagree?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

So the SG-1000 and Master System, for example, are actually a generation apart by your logic and not part of the third generation consoles as it is generally considered.

If a company releases a NEW console, that is part of a new generation in the basic definition of NEXT GENERATION. If you want to base next generation on actual technical prowess then that is a different story. But by the most basic definition, the Wii U is next generational.

 

[radioheadrule83]

But Wii U isn't 3 times as powerful as 360.

All "<x> times powerful" comments are disingenuous guesswork no matter what console or machine they're applied to -- so it's really quite pointless to argue whether its 1.5, 2, 3 or 6 times more powerful. Anyone who is arguing along those lines based off of the limited data we have has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Without a standard metric to go by / benchmarking, you can't make those kind of determinations in throwaway comments to online magazines. It is perfectly possible for hardware to be good at some things and not at others. There are new Android phones that are beating iPhone 4S and iPad in some tests like the SunSpider java tests for example, but getting smoked by the iPhone in GL / graphics tests etc, for example... on paper the PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox 360, and yet we have seen more than one occasion this generation where developers have struggled in bringing an equitable experience to it, due to the subtle differences and depending on which machine was lead platform.

We have been discussing in the Wii-U thread, what we know of the various components (CPU/GPU/RAM etc) - and its not a lot, but its enough to tell us that it is certainly more powerful than a 360 -- which is something you seem reluctant to believe.

How much more powerful remains to be seen, because literally no solid information is coming out. Will PS4 / Xbox 720 be more powerful? Yes, of course they will be. They're not coming out for a year or more, whereas Wii-U is out this year. Microsoft and Sony might aim for a completely different economic tier... I don't think its as much of a given as some people believe that both will shoot for the stars and release bleeding edge boxes -- I'm sure Sony will be keen to avoid another $599, and both of them will be rushing to try and beat the other to market. Likewise, we don't really know the release timeframe or the price of Wii-U, aside from that snippet we had suggesting release might be November in the US/Japan.

edit: nvm, you seem to be adopting a more conciliatory tone now...

 

[ThatObviousUser]

He got the memo from Nintendo probably.

"Didn't you get the memo?"

 

[DarkChild]

Seems to me Wii U is pretty much on par with current gen consoles, except with more ram.

 

[JaseMath]

Goddamn, I can't wait for E3. This shit needs to stop.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Seems to me Wii U is pretty much on par with current gen consoles, except with more ram.

Now you've done it.

 

[GameE]

Was this posted?
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/04/04/gearbox-boss-says-impressive-wii-u-a-really-nice-bridge-to-the/

 

[Ydahs]

I still find it funny that people bring up the RAM in their phones and compare it to the RAM in their current consoles like it means something.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Was this posted?
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/04/04/gearbox-boss-says-impressive-wii-u-a-really-nice-bridge-to-the/

"It's a really cool system -- it's pretty powerful. I want to be careful, because I don't want to risk any sensitive information that Nintendo's not ready to share yet, but in our experience it's a great system. I think it's a really nice bridge to the next generation. I think people will be surprised. I don't know off the top of my head how many of the specs they've released, so I want to be very careful not to jump the gun, but we're very pleased with the hardware. And even since they gave us our first alpha kit, our very first 'pre-prototype' development hardware that they kind of let us play around with, they've done so many things to make the platform better. So it's getting better for us as developers."

...

I think it's a really nice bridge to the next generation. I think people will be surprised

that sounds positive to me. Anyone willing to spin that another way?

 

[crazygambit]

Which director of a game being released on 360/PS3 said that Ipad3 has a really great processor?, is it Mr nobody from don't exist studios?

Good point. This is what Mike Capps Epic games president had to say about the new iPad.

"The Unreal engine is unleashing the power of the new iPad," Capps said referring to the new iPad 3. "This new device has more memory and higher screen resolution than an Xbox 360 or PS3."

If you read that quote in isolation you'd this the iPad would be more powerful than the consoles. We know this is not so, however the point is that if you focus on just part of the hardware to make the comparison it can be very misleading.

As long as we don't hear directly from developers that the WiiU is more powerful than the HS consoles, we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

I still find it funny that people bring up the RAM in their phones and compare it to the RAM in their current consoles like it means something.

Exactly. Just like saying it's got a great processor means nothing as well. Great compared to what? A PC? I don't think so. You'd assume HD consoles, but it could just as well be compared to the Wii.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

I understand that you can't simply quantity the power of next gen consoles with, "it's x times more powerful than x" but as a vague ballpark, I don't think it's a ridiculous barometer.

Having said that, I'm a complete luddite, and have far less knowledge in this subject than most here. I mean, I can read Digital Foundry without reaching for Google, but I wouldn't know where to start with PC building or coding.

 

[JosephManderley]

Even if Wii U is identical to the 360, I'd still buy it. (at the right price) Why? Because if Nintendo can produce a masterpiece like Galaxy on a Wii, they could work wonders on even a 360 clone.

 

[Metalmurphy]

If a company releases a NEW console, that is part of a new generation in the basic definition of NEXT GENERATION. If you want to base next generation on actual technical prowess then that is a different story. But by the most basic definition, the Wii U is next generational.

Why couldn't the master system be considered a new generation system then?

Also:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36644178&postcount=226

"I think it's a really nice bridge to the next generation."

Seems it's not just me that bases it on technical prowess.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

OK, let's try to keep this from becoming mere bickering.

I was led to believe, rightly or wrongly, that Wii U is roughly equivalent to current gen, power wise. That's what all the rumours, yes rumours, say, that's what the footage we've seen seems to suggest, and most importantly, that appears to be Nintendo's MO. Now if you have some compelling evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

The bolded is factually incorrect, there have been rumours(IGN being the biggest) that have put the Wii U at a point "beyond the current gen" & Epic are on record as saying it isn't too late(to the current gen) but too early(to the next), personally the obvious conclusion is that it will be superior to the current gen(it can run games at a higher res than the current gen with support for the 2nd screen, & thats with a port) but inferior to the machines with no fixed date.

 

[Donnie]

OK, let's try to keep this from becoming mere bickering.

I was led to believe, rightly or wrongly, that Wii U is roughly equivalent to current gen, power wise. That's what all the rumours, yes rumours, say, that's what the footage we've seen seems to suggest, and most importantly, that appears to be Nintendo's MO. Now if you have some compelling evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Now as I say, there are no concrete specs, and no official announcement. But as Nintendo have yet to refute the rumours, which they surely would if they were vastly underselling their future product, and for all the reasons stated above, I think it's safe to assume that around current gen is a safe bet. Do you disagree?

That is not what all of the rumours say, that's what's so funny here. You post and try to ridicule my post when you have no idea of any of the info that's come out about the system and have heard about 2 of the hundreds of rumours out there, apparently only the negative ones.

Now you're asking me for evidence, go to the WiiU thread and do some research or ask someone you haven't already attacked, maybe they'll help.

 

[Meccanical]

All these conflicting reports.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

The only thing i want to know is if the Wii U will handle ps4\xbox3 ports or there will be again the Wii situation.

I can be in some way interested by the new interface Nintendo in bringing in the industry, but not so much to pay the crappy port fee for years.

​

 

[Übermatik]

...



that sounds positive to me. Anyone willing to spin that another way?

A bridge to next generation meaning it's the first console to make the jump to 'next generation', or it's a stop gap? As in, it bridges the gap, like a hybrid to a compact and DSLR camera?

I'm serious here, I wonder what he means, because I see two interpretations. GAF, without going overboard, what do you think?

 

[Hoo-doo]

People aren't getting that these "anonymous" developers are inherently more trustworthy than developers who try to pimp their upcoming product with Nintendo's extremely strict NDA's looming over their heads. Of course they are going to say the thing is great, what do you honestly expect them to do?

People can call them "nobodies" all they want, but GameInformer.biz isn't going to let rumors fly like that without some actual internal verification.

 

[KevinCow]

Do we have to have a thread every time someone makes some vague comments on how powerful the Wii U is gonna be? We're not going to get any absolute facts from these kinds of comments, and everything else is just baseless speculation and people choosing which of the conflicting reports to believe because it fits their opinion towards Nintendo better.

E3 is a mere two months away. We'll finally be able to see what's going on with the system. We'll see what Nintendo's games will look like for a general idea of what to expect from them, and we'll be able to see PS3 and 360 multiplatform titles running on it for a more direct comparison to those systems. We'll probably also get to hear some more open talk since the entire system won't be under heavy wraps anymore.

 

[SolarPowered]

...

that sounds positive to me. Anyone willing to spin that another way?

This is exactly the kind of stuff I've been wanting to read. Ambiguous multipliers and vague RAM/CPU info be damned.

 

[SmokyDave]

A bridge to next generation meaning it's the first console to make the jump to 'next generation', or it's a stop gap? As in, it bridges the gap, like a hybrid to a compact and DSLR camera?

I'm serious here, I wonder what he means, because I see two interpretations. GAF, without going overboard, what do you think?

I think it sounds like the Wii-U is about halfway between what we have at the moment, and what we'll have by the time all 3 have dropped their new toys. Pretty much in line with what everyone else is saying. It's not current gen, it's not next gen, it's somewhere inbetween.

 

[frontieruk]

I read it as

more Ram than the PS3
better processor than the 360​

which at this late stage should really be expected.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Why couldn't the master system be a new generation then?

Also:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36644178&postcount=226

"I think it's a really nice bridge to the next generation."

Seems it's not just me that bases it on technical prowess.

Which is what I said? I stated that if you want to judge next gen on the techincal prowess that is one thing but the most basic definition of a next generational console goes hand in hand with the Wii U. I will wait until E3 and actual launch to see if it also fits the bill for the technical definition of next generation.

 

[shandy706]

Pitchford said. "It's a really cool system -- it's pretty powerful. I want to be careful, because I don't want to risk any sensitive information that Nintendo's not ready to share yet, but in our experience it's a great system. I think it's a really nice bridge to the next generation. I think people will be surprised. - Gearbox President



Pretty much answers any questions there.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I think it sounds like the Wii-U is about halfway between what we have at the moment, and what we'll have by the time all 3 have dropped their new toys. Pretty much in line with what everyone else is saying. It's not current gen, it's not next gen, it's somewhere inbetween.

Yeah, in reply to Ubermatik, I think the same as the above. Sounds like Nintendo have aimed for the between point. I do think however that Randy Pitchfords comment indicates a clear differentiation between PS3/360 and Wii-U though. Anyone hoping for Wii-U to just be a 360 with a tablet is going to be sorely disappointed.

I think that a 'bridge' machine will be fine for most games, even a lot of next gen games, and fine from the point of view that its coming out a year earlier and will likely be cheaper. It'll certainly be cheaper by the time the other two roll around.

 

[Donnie]

Good point. This is what Mike Capps Epic games president had to say about the new iPad.



If you read that quote in isolation you'd this the iPad would be more powerful than the consoles. We know this is not so, however the point is that if you focus on just part of the hardware to make the comparison it can be very misleading.

As long as we don't hear directly from developers that the WiiU is more powerful than the HS consoles, we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

No I wouldn't think Ipad was more powerful if I read that quite in isolation. He doesn't say anything about the processor, he only mentions screen resolution.

Exactly. Just like saying it's got a great processor means nothing as well. Great compared to what? A PC? I don't think so. You'd assume HD consoles, but it could just as well be compared to the Wii.

Sorry but that's ridiculous, he's comparing Aliens on PC, WiiU, 360 and PS3. The idea that he's going to say "Its going to be one of the best looking versions of the game because WiiU has a really great processor.. in comparison to Wii" is just asinine

Ok I'm finished with this thread now. People have a go at the WiiU thread but this a veritable sanctuary of intelligence and reasoning in comparison to this looney bin of a thread.

 

[DarkChild]

People aren't getting that these "anonymous" developers are inherently more trustworthy than developers who try to pimp their upcoming product with Nintendo's extremely strict NDA's looming over their heads. Of course they are going to say the thing is great, what do you honestly expect them to do?

People can call them "nobodies" all they want, but GameInformer.biz isn't going to let rumors fly like that without some actual internal verification.

Let them have their pipe dreams, it will just get better when E3 comes. You see, as soon as I saw that not a single demo at E3 featured AA, and bird one had frame rate issues, I knew what is going on.

Nintendo obviously gone for similar CPU as in 360, albeit with more cache, more memory (since its much cheaper now than 7 years ago) and newer GPU but from what rumors tell, fairly underclocked. If you have say ~350-400 GFLOP GPU in Wii U, with tablet controller you should get pretty much the same results as 360/PS3. These people talking about 3x more power than current gen are living in alternative reality.

 

[Indyana]

Anyone else fear they will lose their sanity before the new consoles actually come out?

Every time I read one of these threads a couple of thousands neurons die. There's so much spinning it hurts.

 

[Übermatik]

I think it sounds like the Wii-U is about halfway between what we have at the moment, and what we'll have by the time all 3 have dropped their new toys. Pretty much in line with what everyone else is saying. It's not current gen, it's not next gen, it's somewhere inbetween.

Right, thanks. That's what I thought.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

That is not what all of the rumours say, that's what's so funny here. You post and try to ridicule my post when you have no idea of any of the info that's come out about the system and have heard about 2 of the hundreds of rumours out there, apparently only the negative ones.

Now you're asking me for evidence, go to the WiiU thread and do some research or ask someone you haven't already attacked, maybe they'll help.

Oh come on, I hardly "attacked" you. In fact, you were the one getting personal, telling me to "learn to read". I mean, I don't mind, I should read more TBH, but don't make me out to be a bully. That I do mind.

Now I do admit to not following the rumours particularly closely, but I did genuinely think that it was pretty much accepted that Wii U was basically comparable to PS360 but with more RAM. But as that doesn't appear to be the case, and my self professed lack of knowledge in the area, I'll hold my hands up.

Fwends?

 

[USC-fan]

The only thing i want to know is if the Wii U will handle ps4\xbox3 ports or there will be again the Wii situation.

I can be in some way interested by the new interface Nintendo in bringing in the industry, but not so much to pay the crappy port fee for years.

​

Its hard to says until we know how far away the ps4/nextbox from 0s3/xbox360. If the next gen uses 4GB of main ram +... it may be hard for a wiiu with 1GB - 1.5GB to run the same game engine.

 

[radioheadrule83]

People can call them "nobodies" all they want, but GameInformer.biz isn't going to let rumors fly like that without some actual internal verification.

Erm, I'll trust Randy Pitchford (and other producers/developers who were notable for their absence on the original Wii) over anyone who uses phraseology like "the graphics are more powerful" and "it doesn't have as many shaders" thanks. I don't think GI fact-checked anything by the way, they ran it and sucked up the hits.