"Blame anyone but the people who actually voted for Trump"
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"All Trump Voters Are Nazi Scum" (But Seriously Though...)
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are you stupid
Kadayi
Banned
By what measure are they accountable? To what degree? I voted for Tony Blair back in the day and that cunt took the UK into the Iraq war which we should never have gotten involved in. By the binary rationale of people in this thread, I'm accountable for that. It's schoolkid logic.
I don't disagree, but the US alone isn't going to turn that around anytime soon, when China is burning coal as fast as they can get their hands on it.
Yeah, I did, and then I read a lot of posts be people just saying his family were pieces of shit and he should disown them. Your point?
A better candidate and a better campaign would have helped in what proved to be a tight race.
Explain why those countries.
One Eyed Willy
Member
Lets be real, what you're asking for already happened.
When Trump announced he was running, strong chuckles around these parts. When Trump won the nomination, more strong chuckles sprinkled with minor fear from few. When Trump won the election, this forum was ripe with anger aimed directly at the DNC and the Clinton campaign for all their short-comings. During the course of all of this, jabs were mostly standard Republican jabs. Nobody was talking about disowning Grandma.
Fast forward a few months later and we've settled right into straight up blind labeling tens of millions of voters as straight up Nazi's as a way to cope with feeling defeated and let down.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Yeah I'm guessing this is exactly how most Trump voters feel. They're not all racist, they're just looking out for #1...which is actually how a lot of people vote.
Yeah I mean, Clinton has been investigated by Republicans for decades including her foundation. But I'm sure she is more corrupt than the man that has had real estate deals with Russian billionaires that basically just amount to them giving him millions for overvalued property.
Voting for let alone outright supporting a racist 70 year old that brags about molesting people is abnormal behaviour.
Muffin1611
Banned
As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong), Blair didn't campaign on entering the Iraq War.
The single global superpower turning around on climate change certainly isn't helping the cause. And just because other countries are doing as bad or worse, that isn't an excuse to say "Well, won't matter if our country further accelerates impending doom, right?"
That it was a tight race in the first place is an incredible condemnation of the American voting public.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
The fact that this is not an uncommon take is why the US is in real trouble long term, beyond the Trump admin. Deep, real trouble. In 10-20 years we'll be seeing public opinion openly calling for authoritarianism.
Damn that is the dumbest thing I have read in a while.
Glass Shark
Banned
I alternate between thinking Trump supporters are the worst and thinking "both sides are bad!" people are the worst.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Climate change is more likely to be solved by some no-name dude in a random lab in China figuring out how to do cheap, energy-efficient carbon capture than by the US investing in wind and solar.
Lowering emissions was never a realistic goal, imo, the technology simply was not there until too late in the game.
They can be the worst together.
The real issue with trump isn't that all his followers are nazis, because they obviously aren't. It's that he has a direct dialogue with people that think like that. It's that he retweets white supremacists unapologetically, and has skin heads at his rallies without muttering a word of disapproval. He incites this division, which empowers racist groups.
It also empowers the insensitive. People tired of hearing about minorities and finally able to say what they always wanted: fuck them, what about me? These are the same people that are oddly vocal when given the chance to proclaim that they don't find black women attractive, or that all lives matter, or that transwomen are men and they have a right to opinion, etc etc. We don't have a president that is pushing forward unity but instead embellishing division. And racist groups love division
It's not about labeling specific voters, but instead labeling the conversation that is bubbling now right out in the open. And of course liberals wish everyone was against it enough to never vote trump. If you vote trump anyway, then they feel ya just don't care about the division he is creating, which I feel is probably true. You may not actually believe in keeping minorities down, or actually hate anyone....but you are also not exactly fighting against people that do this either
It also empowers the insensitive. People tired of hearing about minorities and finally able to say what they always wanted: fuck them, what about me? These are the same people that are oddly vocal when given the chance to proclaim that they don't find black women attractive, or that all lives matter, or that transwomen are men and they have a right to opinion, etc etc. We don't have a president that is pushing forward unity but instead embellishing division. And racist groups love division
It's not about labeling specific voters, but instead labeling the conversation that is bubbling now right out in the open. And of course liberals wish everyone was against it enough to never vote trump. If you vote trump anyway, then they feel ya just don't care about the division he is creating, which I feel is probably true. You may not actually believe in keeping minorities down, or actually hate anyone....but you are also not exactly fighting against people that do this either
constantstatic
Member
I'm gay how is voting for a party that wants to strip away my rights having my back?
Nothing is wrong is distancing yourself from family over views. They go down one way and you down another, I doubt there is much conversation to be had. To you really want to be around hateful people like that? It's poisonous for your own health
But the other half is, I doubt the majority of people with the same political views as you are going to be there for you like family. This sort of pride people have in disowning their family, seems more childish than anything else. It should be sad you can't be around the ones closest to you, not fuck them. May never want to be around them, but I'd still like to know if they are kicking the bucket, need help, etc.
Muffin1611
Banned
So rather than modernizing energy supplies and trying to minimize pollution as soon as possible and therefore gaining important time we all should just lay back and hope some random person solves the problem on their own?
Excuse me if that doesn't seem like the best course to take here to me.
I mean, by denying climate change the US certainly won't invest many government funds into needed research about the topic, further lowering chances.
Climate change isn't likely to be solved at all but I'd imagine the US will lag in mitigating the damage.
The Salt Life
Banned
Oh they absolutely don't, they only care about people they know. But I wouldn't call them nazi's because of that.
QFT. God damn, this is everything.
I don't get why my brother and his wife voted for Trump. I am gay and married to a Mexican...I wonder if he just talks trash behind our backs?
Most of my family voted for Trump, but it's not like I am close to them so I don't really care about them anyway. I only cared about my grandparents, and now all of them are gone.
AnathemicOne
Banned
There's so much WTF going on here. Putting aside your lack of research into the subject, you do realize the current administration is going out if its way to wiping years of government data on the field right? This is a global problem that requires global participation. Sure the end goal is to solve the problem but hoping on a miracle when we've existing technology to mitigate the crisis that is willfully not being used is ludicrous.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
No, I'm saying that catastrophizing when there are millions of people working contra global warming all over the globe is unnecessary, especially since much of the momentum in the US is now strong enough that it will partially overcome a change in administrative priorities.
Don't get me wrong, Trump's views on this are abhorrent, but I think history will likely seem Trump's election much less significant, in terms of the history of climate change, than people's current reactions warrant.
Edit: AnathemicOne, I've done plenty of research into the subject. I'm not saying wind and solar are BAD, just that the US is not the be-all and end-all in fighting climate change, especially since wind and solar are now at a point where they likely ARE going to continue to expand, with or without executive rubber-stamping.
ClosingADoor
Member
"Ignore everything about the context in which these people vote, because certainly just yelling hard enough will change them."
Kadayi
Banned
No, you're entirely accountable for anything and everything they do in office. There can be no compromise here.
That Clinton was a bad choice? She lost. Can she hardly, therefore, be viewed as a good choice no? After all, innumerable members of the press said Trump had no chance, day in day out.
As for the media: -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1Sfeq-Dzqg
If that isn't hubris I don't know what is.
Admitting and bragging about molesting people didn't change them. And nobody is advocating changing them as much as working as hard as possible to make them electorally insignificant.
AnathemicOne
Banned
I don't think people in the thread are advocating changing them, atleast not from what I see nor do I seek to. Frankly, we don't need them due to the popular vote statistics so they can go rot in their own communities or be culled from earth for all I care. What we do need is the ones who sat home during this election.
Did you even read the post I was replying to?
Providing context does not mean ignoring the problem that's there. And yes, over 60 million people voting for a candidate like Trump is a problem regardless of how badly the DNC fucked up. Over 60 million people proudly voted for an unqualified, corrupt, idiotic, unfocused, bigoted self-admitted sexual harasser. That is not a problem that just working on the DNC or media coverage of Trump will ever fix.
stump sock
Member
yeah how'd that popular vote thing work out last time?
ClosingADoor
Member
I agree that Americans need to actually go out and vote. If 50% of your country literally doesn't care to vote, that is a problem.
But saying thins like we don't need them and they can rot away for all you care is not exactly helping, is it? You are literally saying some communities deserve to rot away or be culled. You don't see anything wrong with that? Isn't it better to fix this communities, and give people there a better future?
Yes, Trump is an asshole. Yes, he is terrible. Yes, he empowers hate groups. I don't dispute any of that. And I rather this situation would not exist. But it does. So we need to look at why it exists, attempt to change those things and make sure it doesn't happen again.
I did. And I replied to you in a similar simplistic way as you did yourself.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Here is a Nazi demonstration in Germany that took place today.
This is what Nazis look like:
https://twitter.com/MarkusRosch/status/859021997682167809
They shout:
"National Socialism - Now"
and
"Free, social and national"
The slogan on their banner:
"For family, homeland and tradition"
Their goals:
Keep out foreigners, Germany First, get rid of supranational institutions like the EU and foster nationalism again.
These goals make you a nazi.
If you know someone who would support these goals, thats a nazi. As easy as that.
If you don't think that makes you a nazi, you are wrong.
This is what Nazis look like:
https://twitter.com/MarkusRosch/status/859021997682167809
They shout:
"National Socialism - Now"
and
"Free, social and national"
The slogan on their banner:
"For family, homeland and tradition"
Their goals:
Keep out foreigners, Germany First, get rid of supranational institutions like the EU and foster nationalism again.
These goals make you a nazi.
If you know someone who would support these goals, thats a nazi. As easy as that.
If you don't think that makes you a nazi, you are wrong.
Muffin1611
Banned
Your measure was "people in this thread". I saw some posts about exactly that, and the general consensus seemed to me to be things like Obama using drones aren't exactly foreseeable based on his campaign.
Voting Obama for reelection of course makes you accountable for this exact policy. The saving grace being here that the Republican candidate would have been the same or worse in this regard.
Kadayi
Banned
If 60 Million people decided not to vote for Hillary, surely the most pressing question is why did they choose Trump instead? What is it that he was saying, that she wasn't?
Glass Shark
Banned
How you propose we change things? A huge portion of the people who voted for Trump don't use logic and reason as the basis for their decisions. They don't accept things as reality that are consistently proven to be. They don't care about anyone who doesn't look or believe what they do. How do you talk to these people and appeal to them?
I'd rather reach out to the 40% of eligible voters that weren't motivated to vote than the ones that voted Trump.
No compromises can be made policy-wise to reach out to Trump's supporters.
The Salt Life
Banned
I will never understand this. Democrats have over flow of popular vote in NY and California, where that count doesn't matter. Those over flow numbers need to be spread out across the country. As the prices in coastal areas continue to sky rocket, maybe those numbers will move and spread to more red states where living is more affordable and in desperate need of alternative views.
60 mil voted for Mittens, McCain, Bush 2nd term, and Trump. It's more built in that 60 million people will vote against the Dems and for the Reps each time regardless.
I feel like it would be better spend to figure out why did Obama get 70mil in 2008, but 65 in 2012. Clinton the same as the lower year against the most polarizing candidate. Kerry less than 60. The party naturally outnumbers the Reps. Yet, it's voter turnout is always more varied. Rather than focusing on why they got 60 million again. Focus on why the turnout is down.
ClosingADoor
Member
That is the major challenge, how to fix things if people vote against their own best interest. I won't pretend to have the answer. But remarks like "let them rot" or they need to be "culled from the earth" is a hateful and unproductive way to go about it as far as I'm concerned. These people exist. They won't go away.
So you need to reach them somehow with simple messages and explain solutions in a way they will see it can work, but in the right direction. Forward and progressive, instead of backwards.
What happened to investing in communities that experience job losses for example? That is a progressive standpoint. But here I read that those same communities need to be removed from the planet.
The policy needs to be packaged in such a way you can convince people it benefits them.
Because when you explain things simply and as a matter of fact, they'll ignore you at best, at worst they'll resent you for speaking down to them. These communities don't want your investment they'll shun it, because all they'll see is people that they don't like also benefiting from said investment.
stump sock
Member
there was that whole thread where people were cheering that entire coal mining communities would be economically devastated - not because the posters hated coal, but because those people are probably republicans/Trump voters
that kind of weird disregard for other citizens and economic classes flies directly in the face of progressive views and it's disheartening.
Clerical Error
Member
The policy needs to be packaged in such a way you can convince people it benefits them and doesn't benefit people with dark skin.
Adam_Vania
Banned
cutting off strangers and acquaintances, okay, fine. but cutting off family and friends over this stuff seems very rash. you would be doing real world harm to years or decades old relationships. you would actually damage your side's case for tolerance. you would be acting just like the one you decry. calling people idiots and ignoring them is petty and childish. you wont change someone's mind by calling them an idiot. this is some kind of violence, an identity violence in some way. what does it accomplish to label someone without their consent?
furthermore it is privilege denial. yes if those people are in your family, you grew up hearing it, and it doesn't matter if you cut off your uncle when you are in your 20s if you have been hearing him for decades already. that stuff is in you. it is in all of us. it is ok, you don't have to hate yourself for that, it happens to everyone. it is pervasive in society. we can rise above it, all of us.
furthermore it is privilege denial. yes if those people are in your family, you grew up hearing it, and it doesn't matter if you cut off your uncle when you are in your 20s if you have been hearing him for decades already. that stuff is in you. it is in all of us. it is ok, you don't have to hate yourself for that, it happens to everyone. it is pervasive in society. we can rise above it, all of us.
Polioliolio
Member
Of course they aren't nazis. They're more akin to people who supported nazis. Wool pulled over their eyes, going with the flow, or decent people with a slight sense of superiority.. Whatever it is, the pussy grabbing, bigoted, racist rhetoric doesn't just not phase them, they seem to like it.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Blame the electorate for losing an election, continue to lose elections.
A lesson from every democracy ever in operation.
A lesson from every democracy ever in operation.
AnathemicOne
Banned
We've been extending olive branches for over the past 8 years atleast and the fruits of our labors resulted in Trump being elected. Republicans have proven time and time again that this compromising BS isn't working.
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