Support NeoGAF

[Ray Wonder]

Yes, and ignorance and hate would be at the core of that list. That's the issue here, Trump laid it out bare, and he always looked horrible. There's no good excuse. None.

I'm not the one to give reasons, because I'm not a supporter/voter of Trump. I'm only offering my opinion about how I think that the world of politics is never so black and white. Understanding where people come from, instead of labeling them and sanctimoniously putting them all in a neat little deplorable category, is valuable to me. Maybe not to you, but that's pretty much what this thread is addressing.

Serious question: What would it take for you to come to the conclusion that some times, even when both sides are calling each other villainous, the correct position is NOT half way down that imaginary coin? Would it be racism? Denial of science? Denial of facts in favor of what "feels" right? Denial of the equality of every American under the law? Denial of the ability for a judge to be impartial because he's Latino?

With federal funding going to private and religious schools, there's going to be a whole lot of people that have no common ground to start from. It's bad now, but it will eventually get to the point where we can't even agree that the world is billions of years old. Because one side will continue to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt about the fact-checkers. And some people, because of their emotional attachment to their friends and family, will continue to believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

EDIT: I missed the sarcasm. Point still stands.

Like I said, I'm not a supporter. The reasons aren't for me to offer. But since it seems you need an example.. I'm saying that if I believed that abortion was "murdering babies", I'd have a strong opinion on it. As well as vote for a candidate that I believed would stop it. Because stopping a genocide of babies is more important than a lot of things.

I don't believe that, but I could see, for example, why people would vote for a certain candidate because of that.

 

[RipperGrim]

There's some pretty strong exceptionalism right there.

Let's have it straight. You can go nuts at Trump, but let's not forget Obama and the Democrats are 90% as bad. Obama still sent out drones to murder innocent people ("collateral damage"), and promoted the sort of income inequality that subjugates the people the Democrats claim to champion to a greater extent than any others. Who won the most under his tenure? Rich white men. Don't forget that - the rhetoric might be different but the interests are the same. Is Trump worse? Sure. But don't pretend the Democrats represented a real alternative. After all, Obama is now more than happy to share the spoils of the people he boosted during his tenure, as Hillary did before him.

Why do people always make Obama out to be a warmonger when it comes to drones? Completely leaving out that he had to clean up the fuck up that was the Iraq war at a time when he'd been pressured to withdraw troops while at the same time not leave it a complete wild west (clearly that failed). Drone strikes are an alternative to boots on the ground which I'm pretty sure nobody wants while at the same time still actually trying to help and not just sit and watch countries tear themselves apart because of the actions of the previous administration.

In my opinion Obama did what he could in a situation that was created entirely by the republicans while trying to not actually deploy troops whenever possible. If people were actually against war and bombing innocents then I have no fucking clue why they would vote for Republicans.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

DNC is openly currupt
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/10/obama-donors-top-embassy-jobs-rewards

People want to call whoever they want to be corrupt, corrupt. Never mind reality.

 

[tuxfool]

I'm not the one to give reasons, because I'm not a supporter/voter of Trump. I'm only offering my opinion about how I think that the world of politics is never so black and white. Understanding where people come from, instead of labeling them and sanctimoniously putting them all in a neat little deplorable category, is valuable to me. Maybe not to you, but that's pretty much what this thread is addressing.

Most people here do understand where these people are coming from. I'd suspect they know far more than the inverse. Still doesn't change the reality.

 

[Journeywalker]

I'm not the one to give reasons, because I'm not a supporter/voter of Trump. I'm only offering my opinion about how I think that the world of politics is never so black and white. Understanding where people come from, instead of labeling them and sanctimoniously putting them all in a neat little deplorable category, is valuable to me. Maybe not to you, but that's pretty much what this thread is addressing.

I will ask again, what would it take for you to come to the conclusion that one side has less merit than the other?

 

[Dierce]

Age or ignorance is not an excuse for being an inhuman piece of shit. Those who voted for orange turd embraced all his immoral actions, all his racism, sexism, lies and prejudices. Just look at the so called evangelical christians who voted for an adulterer and rapist more than ever before.

That needs to be emphasized, it isn't because they didn't research or were misled. They knew exactly what they were getting and they still do. Fuck those pieces of garbage, sickens me to have to live in a world with them. I will never forgive them.

 

[Ray Wonder]

I will ask again, what would it take for you to come to the conclusion that one side has less merit than the other?

One side does have less merit than the other, to me. The republican side. That's why I'm a democrat.

Doesn't mean that they have 0 merit.

Most people here do understand where these people are coming from. I'd suspect they know far more than the inverse. Still doesn't change the reality.

Fair enough, if you want to believe that they understand where they're coming from, and also still say there's no excuse for voting for Trump, then that's where we have to agree to disagree. Because there's no way to prove that they do or don't understand where they're coming from, I guess.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Why do people always make Obama out to be a warmonger when it comes to drones? Completely leaving out that he had to clean up the fuck up that was the Iraq war at a time when he'd been pressured to withdraw troops while at the same time not leave it a complete wild west (clearly that failed). Drone strikes are an alternative to boots on the ground which I'm pretty sure nobody wants while at the same time still actually trying to help and not just sit and watch countries tear themselves apart because of the actions of the previous administration.

In my opinion Obama did what he could in a situation that was created entirely by the republicans while trying to not actually deploy troops whenever possible. If people were actually against war and bombing innocents then I have no fucking clue why they would vote for Republicans.

It's why Trump's base were so mad at Trump over Syria. They want Trump to withdraw completely from the Middle-East, to leave a vacuum, to stop participating in foreign action completely. Oh, and also defeat ISIS.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I'm not the one to give reasons, because I'm not a supporter/voter of Trump. I'm only offering my opinion about how I think that the world of politics is never so black and white. Understanding where people come from, instead of labeling them and sanctimoniously putting them all in a neat little deplorable category, is valuable to me. Maybe not to you, but that's pretty much what this thread is addressing.

I'm in the thick of it, I know very well where they're coming from. (and it isn't pretty)

 

[Ray Wonder]

I'm in the thick of it, I know very well where they're coming from. (and it isn't pretty)

So is OP, and it seems like in their case, it isn't "not pretty".

 

[danm999]

Imagine what people would say if Hillary Clinton was elected and sent Chelsea Clinton to China to meet with the Chinese President and that same day China granted Chelsea Clinton a bunch of trademark approvals.

Imagine if Hillary Clinton bombed Syria and Bill said she did it because Chelsea influenced her into doing it.

Imagine if Hillary Clinton put Chelsea Clinton in charge of solving the Middle East, reorganising the Federal government, arranging talks with China, with Mexico, with tackling the opioid epidemic and reforming care for veterans.

I don't know for certain the reaction but I don't have much trouble imagining it.

 

[Journeywalker]

One side does have less merit than the other, to me. The republican side. That's why I'm a democrat.

Doesn't meant that they have 0 merit.

As people they have merit, but it is very possible that the ideas they hold have no merit. For example:

"All Americans should be treated equally under the law. Muslim Americans should be held under suspicion from law enforcement."

This combined idea has no merit because it is contradictory. And yet the country will be worse off because people hold both these ideas and are being encouraged to choose the one that "feels" right, instead of the one that is right.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

So is OP, and it seems like in their case, it isn't "not pretty".

Yeah, I'm sure that Trump vote is coming from a great place. I'd love to have a conversation with them, because I'm positive it wouldn't be difficult at all to drag out the unfathomable. It never does.

Some folks are incapable of holding their family and friends accountable for their ideas, their voting practices, because "hey, they're nice to me!". This is why you see so much pushback from so many liberals with otherwise very strong opinions on many different things.

 

[Adam_Vania]

Some folks are incapable of holding their family and friends accountable for their ideas, their voting practices, because "hey, they're nice to me!". This is why you see so much pushback from so many liberals with otherwise very strong opinions on many different things.

yeah, tell grandma to fuck off and never speak to her again! that's the ticket

 

[Eidan]

DNC is openly currupt
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/10/obama-donors-top-embassy-jobs-rewards

This has fuck all to do with the DNC.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

yeah, tell grandma to fuck off and never speak to her again! that's the ticket

You understand you can not do that and still hold her accountable, anyone accountable, right?

Stop playing defense for shitty ideas.

 

[Muffin1611]

yeah, tell grandma to fuck off and never speak to her again! that's the ticket

You make it sound like holding someone accountable for their views is a childish reaction.

It isn't.

If one of my family members votes for absolute racists, I'll sure as hell tell them that I think they're wrong and minimize contact with them as much as possible.

You don't owe people that are related to you to agree with them or not offend them.

Even if it's grandma, as hard as that seems to fathom for some here.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

How has the thread title not been edited yet?

yeah, tell grandma to fuck off and never speak to her again! that's the ticket

That's what you think "hold accountable" means? Pathetic.

Where do people get this stunted world view from?

 

[constantstatic]

You support a racist candidate then you take ownership of all their racist policies, not just the ones you like.

Yup I can't respect anyone who votes republican period. They are the party of hate and a small tax break is not a valid excuse.

Trump is in a whole other category and anyone who voted for that man is not very intelligent. Calling them nazis might be a bit extreme. Bigots, racists, homophobes is probably a better term.

Trump is just so incompetent it's hard for me to understand how anyone can look at that man and listen to him talk then think yeah he should be president.

My partners father is an ER doctor and voted trump just for tax reasons since he recently was bought out of his company for millions of dollars and it disgusts me.

 

[fireflame]

There is a lot of tension in the thread and i want to say that i am feeling a bit stressed by it, maybe that is just me but that depresses me a bit.

 

[constantstatic]

There is a lot of tension in the thread and i want to say that i am feeling a bit stressed by it, maybe that is just me but that depresses me a bit.

Welcome to the club knowing people willingly voted for the orange turd has me shook since the election.

 

[Effect]

Voting for trump at minimum means you are ok with racism, homophobia, misogyny and being willfully ignorant. They might be your friends and family, but lets call a spade a spade

This. This is pretty much the starting point for all discussions on this topic. When someone is as openly racist, bigoted, sexist, etc as Trump and you still vote for them and support them and go out of your way to excuse him or say "give him more time" at the very least, at your core, you're okay with that behavior. Maybe that person themselves doesn't practice it but they 100% condone it. Or one is extremely ignorant as a person which is doubtful.

Now people can vote for whoever they want if they feel it's in their best interest. However they don't get to be ignorant of who and what else they're voting for and condoning. Vote for a racist and you are supporting or accepting of racist policy. Doesn't matter how far down the list it is. It's not like that side of the person suddenly appeared and wasn't there when you voted. I think many would be understanding with that. You knew it was there before you voted so you don't get a pass for not knowing.

 

[Micael]

Forget the European theatre of the Second World War.

Forget the fire bombing of Dresden.

Forget the sack of Berlin.

Forget the Nuremberg trials.

Forget the division of Germany.

Forget the Morgenthau Plan and forests worth of Nazi propaganda burnt.

Forget the propaganda campaigns waged by the PWD to make the German public feel collective guilt and responsibility.

Forget strafgesetzbuch section 86a.

Forget forget forget forget. What we need is some education.

Good thing none of those goes against what I said.
But hey if you think that is all that was needed to curb Nazi sentiments in Germany, you should really get up with the white house and inform them that the reason why there is still problems in the middle east is because they didn't invade it hard enough, didn't bomb it hard enough, and didn't control them hard enough.

Also in case it isn't obvious education is not the same as schools, things like trials help to educate the public, both in alerting them on what occurred, and that the actions perpetrated by certain individuals are not ok, even the leaflets can be considered a form of educating enemy soldiers to the fact that there is an alternative and an escape from the path they are on.

Simple name calling on the other hand generally does very little but to foster hatred on both sides.
The idea that education does not play a significant part in curbing hatred for the other is madness to me, does anyone actually think that the levels of acceptance for things like homosexuality we have today in relation to the past really comes down to genetics or shaming homophobes?

 

[fireflame]

Welcome to the club knowing people willingly voted for the orange turd has me shook since the election.

I was more thinking about the general tension in the conversation, i understand political debates can get tense and all, but to that point if it was an anime we sould see bolts in the sky.

 

[The Salt Life]

You make it sound like holding someone accountable for their views is a childish reaction.

It isn't.

If one of my family members votes for absolute racists, I'll sure as hell tell them that I think they're wrong and minimize contact with them as much as possible.

You don't owe people that are related to you to agree with them or not offend them.

Even if it's grandma, as hard as that seems to fathom for some here.

As someone that holds family above all else, reading stuff like this is so sad. You would really distance yourself from family over political views? That seems so last straw extreme. I hope it is something you can heal years from now.

 

[MUnited83]

Keep it up buddy.

It's Polari, Trump Apologism is the name of his game.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

As someone that holds family above all else, reading stuff like this is so sad. You would really distance yourself from family over political views? That seems so last straw extreme. I hope it is something you can heal years from now.

Trump's "political views" involves actual innocent people's lives being endangered greatly with his hateful rhetoric and politics just because they look, worship, or love different than the straight white Christian man.

Fuck anyone in my family, which I have said multiple times in the past, if they voted for him. Luckily, they lived through an actual fascist state and knows what Trump and his ilk stands for, so they didn't vote for him.

I put the lives of future generations and humanity as a whole over my family and myself.

 

[Sai-kun]

As someone that holds family above all else, reading stuff like this is so sad. You would really distance yourself from family over political views? That seems so last straw extreme. I hope it is something you can heal years from now.

One of my cousins called me a fuckin cuck over criticizing the administration. Nothankyou.png

Fuck family that accepts his bullshit.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Trump voters can't be Nazis, they just voted for a guy who thinks people should be registered with the government based on their religious background

cmon guise

 

[YuriLowell]

As someone that holds family above all else, reading stuff like this is so sad. You would really distance yourself from family over political views? That seems so last straw extreme. I hope it is something you can heal years from now.

I have enough "family" that I can live without the ones who want to endorse such an awful man.

 

[MUnited83]

As someone that holds family above all else, reading stuff like this is so sad. You would really distance yourself from family over political views? That seems so last straw extreme. I hope it is something you can heal years from now.

I'll quote my previous post

Thankfully my family doesn't have those utterly useless pieces of shit. If it did, FUCK THEM. I do not care about being at the table and having "bonds" with scum that hates me for being who I am and denies the humanity of the people I care about. "Family" is not a motherfucking free pass to be human shit.

Hate and denying other human beings dignity human rights is not a political view. It's being a piece of human shit. Do not divinize the concept of family, it isn't a free pass to be a shitlord without consequences.

 

[Ray Wonder]

One of my cousins called me a fuckin cuck over criticizing the administration. Nothankyou.png

Fuck family that accepts his bullshit.

Idk why this made me laugh so hard.

was he being serious?

 

[Muffin1611]

As someone that holds family above all else, reading stuff like this is so sad. You would really distance yourself from family over political views? That seems so last straw extreme. I hope it is something you can heal years from now.

The hell? There really is nothing to be healed. I can wonderfully function with just my s/o and friends, thank you. And all of those wouldn't do something so at best ignorant as voting Trump (or in my case the AfD).

Blood bonds aren't some magical pact that I have to hold above my sense for morality. No thank you.

Thankfully it hasn't ever come to that with my family.

 

[ClosingADoor]

One of my cousins called me a fuckin cuck over criticizing the administration. Nothankyou.png

Fuck family that accepts his bullshit.

There is a difference between a family member voting a certain way and one literally calling you names when discussing that.

If someone called me names for the way I vote or discuss politics with them, they would also not be welcome in my house anymore.

 

[Muffin1611]

There is a difference between a family member voting a certain way and one literally calling you names when discussing that.

If someone called me names for the way I vote or discuss politics with them, they would also not be welcome in my house anymore.

I really don't see how voting to fuck over people (maybe not intentionally, but at least accepting of it) isn't just as bad or worse than calling someone names for their vote.

 

[Siegcram]

What's sad is being unable to realize your family members as human beings just as flawed as anyone else and instead putting them on a pedestal just because they're a biological extension of yourself.

That's sad. And tremendously egotistical.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I really don't see how voting to fuck over people (maybe not intentionally, but at least accepting of it) isn't just as bad or worse than calling someone names for their vote.

Because one is a direct hostility and the other is them voting a certain way you don't agree with. That can be talked about and discussed to some extend, but not if the other is already so deep in that they will not engage in any type of discussion anymore.

If my parents voted for a far right party, I'd be very disappointed and will bring it up with them and why it is stupid. I might not be able to change their minds, but at least I tried and probably will do so every time politics come up. But if they then proceed to be openly hostile towards me over it, of course that is different and I'll walk away from them.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I really don't see how voting to fuck over people (maybe not intentionally, but at least accepting of it) isn't just as bad or worse than calling someone names for their vote.

"Calling me names and placing blame, the relationship goes up in flames.

But you're on your own, for which my actions condone. My votes can never hurt me"

- someone that just doesn't want to get it

 

[The Salt Life]

What's sad is being unable to realize your family members as human beings just as flawed as anyone else and instead putting them on a pedestal just because they're a biological extension of yourself.

That's sad. And tremendously egotistical.

It's family though, no one is going to have your back more than them. Maybe my family is just different from the norm on here. Mine is very old school.

 

[McBryBry]

Time to admit it. My girlfriend did it. She's not informed politically. She's very Catholic and her parents will do nothing but talk up anyone with an R next to their name because its an R. Do I think she made the wrong decision? Absolutely. I also know that she did it because she's vethe strongly against abortion, due to her parents' views and her religious views. I give a lot of the blame to her parents' influence because she voted Bernie in the primaries, but so very much hated Hillary.

Do I still love her? Absolutely. And one reason is because she's open to hearing other opinions. I've talked to her extensively about everything. She's starting to turn around. And she has never once praised the president, and is seeing the mistakes he's made. My goal isn't to shut her out. It's to turn her around. I'd rather gain another voter than lose someone who I love dearly and consider my best friend.

 

[NandoGip]

Personally, if you're into Trump I immediately judge you as either 1) some combination of stupid/uninformed/greedy or 2) racist.

I choose not to voice my political opinions with people who's relationships I need to keep, which means I mostly only discuss this stuff with the internet.

 

[Siegcram]

It's family though, no one is going to have your back more than them. Maybe my family is just different from the norm on here. Mine is very old school.

You're just repeating platitudes. This entire discussion isn't whether or not they'd have your back, but if they care enough about people who happen to not be related to them to not vote against their equality.

If that's not the case, it says a great deal more about their intelligence and compassion than being nice on christmas.

 

[PanicFreak]

You support a racist candidate then you take ownership of all their racist policies, not just the ones you like.

Pretty much this. Trump is a racist, fascist, wannabe dictator that is personally profiting on his time in the White House. It was obvious that he would be like this in the primary so people who voted for him should accept that they aided a racist, fascist, and wannabe dictator in his quest to personally profit from occupying the White House.

 

[Ewo]

It's family though, no one is going to have your back more than them.

This doesn't apply to a whole lot of people.

 

[Kadayi]

As a Eurolander, I do have to marvel at all this chest beating as to whose the more outraged and ready to disown their entire family forever because a guy they despise won the presidency for four years.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the DNC for backing a bad horse, whose entire strategy (from what I witnessed) amounted to little more than 'don't vote for that guy' versus selling a concrete vision of what she would do for the country. Also, I think the mainstream press are culpable as well for completely underestimating the grass root support for Trump. I think that they generated an air of complacency that all is well to the extent that they assumed a Clinton victory was a foregone conclusion.

 

[Muffin1611]

As a Eurolander, I do have to marvel at all this chest beating as to whose the more outraged and ready to disown their entire family forever because a guy they despise won the presidency for four years.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the DNC for backing a bad horse, whose entire strategy (from what I witnessed) amounted to little more than 'don't vote for that guy' versus selling a concrete vision of what she would do for the country. Also, I think the mainstream press are culpable as well for completely underestimating the grass root support for Trump. I think that they generated an air of complacency that all is well to the extent that they assumed a Clinton victory was a foregone conclusion.

The other side doing badly doesn't absolve the voting population from voting for the guy that will fuck not only them over, but especially minorities. With the exception of the 1%. The other side wasn't trying to do that, and it was clear as day.

Hell, denying climate change is essentially fucking over the entire human race.

 

[le.phat]

As a Eurolander, I do have to marvel at all this chest beating as to whose the more outraged and ready to disown their entire family forever because a guy they despise won the presidency for four years.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the DNC for backing a bad horse, whose entire strategy (from what I witnessed) amounted to little more than 'don't vote for that guy' versus selling a concrete vision of what she would do for the country. Also, I think the mainstream press are culpable as well for completely underestimating the grass root support for Trump. I think that they generated an air of complacency that all is well to the extent that they assumed a Clinton victory was a foregone conclusion.

As a fellow eurolander I think you are thick as molasses for posting this. Did you even read the OP?

 

[rjinaz]

As a Eurolander, I do have to marvel at all this chest beating as to whose the more outraged and ready to disown their entire family forever because a guy they despise won the presidency for four years.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the DNC for backing a bad horse, whose entire strategy (from what I witnessed) amounted to little more than 'don't vote for that guy' versus selling a concrete vision of what she would do for the country. Also, I think the mainstream press are culpable as well for completely underestimating the grass root support for Trump. I think that they generated an air of complacency that all is well to the extent that they assumed a Clinton victory was a foregone conclusion.

Yep that's what's happening here, Yep. I mean at least you don't live in the US so none of his policies targeting minorities will effect you personally, but that's the least I can say.

 

[HallucinatingElvis]

It's like most of you dont know what a Nazi is and what happend during WWII, Because the shit going down now certainly is not anything close to what a Nazi is. Pssst...Building a wall isnt racist, nor is banning a bunch of countries entry into the United States.

double psst...."muslim" is not a race , stop treating it as such

and, call it what you want to make it all vanilla and shit but an undocumented immigrant is here illegally....they are breaking the law, open borders dont work, look no further the europe. You want to get mad, get mad at the process for which makes immigration difficult.

Tah Dah. there....I is Nazi!

 

[diaspora]

Did supporting Obama mean you implicitly supported every single one of his viewpoints and actions?

To a degree yes. I'm willing to own the policies my supported candidates take including the ones that even I disagree with. The difference of course, is that none of those viewpoints in my case involve molestation and racism.