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Angry Joe gets called out by IGNs review editor for misquoting their Titanfall review
- Thread starter Dawg
- Start date
fvng
Member
Not really, he pulls in more youtube views than IGN, and not by a nominal amount, more like hundreds of thousands more views.
Perhaps he should preface each one of his review videos with a "I'm only half joking" warning.
This is a typical troll strategy by the way.. say something completely terrible and then hide behind the "i was only joking defense". this is straight out of the troll playbook and Yahtzee is a professional troll.
Yahtzee might go out of his way to make his reviews entertaining, but make no mistake he believes all the shit he spews. The fact that the viewer doesn't know if he's being tongue in cheek or not is part of the problem I described earlier. Now he's set up the very real scenario of turning off a viewer to a game they might have otherwise liked. Now you see why I think Yahtzee is a cancerous personality in this industry.
Delta Assault
Member
I wanna see reaction videos to this thread now.
I wouldn't call him casual. His reviews for strategy games and MMOs are pretty deep and hardcore. But I do agree that when he plays something outside his comfort zone, he usually has a very simple overview of it.
R_thanatos
Member
Actually you just confirmed the fact that you've missed the entire point of everyone ( in the industry ) existence ..
If you're able to downplay everyone with an opinion on youtube to "guy with a webcam" when you are nothing but a guy behind keyboard so why is Your opinion more important than his ?
If you're thinking like that , then screw the freedom of speech! i mean , why should people care since it's just one guy with a webcam ?
So yeah ..you've missed the point why are you even talking on the internet since as it stand you're just one person with an opinion
Your opinion = my opinion = his opinion = freedom of speech ...if you can't understand that then why are you even speaking on a forom in the first place ?
And as far as i'm aware Angry joe never labelled himself as an "expert" or anything of the sort
So, I don't recall, but was the IGN review editor this angry when EA used the "believe the hype" quote in their commercial to sell the game?
I mean, Joe isn't supposed to bring it up when talking about the review because previews and reviews are very different and you can't criticize an outlet for what they put up for review with preview quotes.
But EA is totally using preview quotes in their commercials to sell the game, without noting that it's preview text and not final review text; and they're actually using that to try to line their pockets with gamer cash so.... where's the outrage?
I mean, Joe isn't supposed to bring it up when talking about the review because previews and reviews are very different and you can't criticize an outlet for what they put up for review with preview quotes.
But EA is totally using preview quotes in their commercials to sell the game, without noting that it's preview text and not final review text; and they're actually using that to try to line their pockets with gamer cash so.... where's the outrage?
Catchpenny
Member
This.
Also this. Would like to see someone from IGN respond to that point.
Messofanego
Banned
Yeah, and with movies it's even more ridiculous. They'll just have single word quotes like "EXTRAORDINARY" or "SHOCKING (-ly bad)", but at least they're usually from reviews. What I have noticed with videogames using pull quotes is, they'll attach the score to a review quote, and nothing to the preview quote so there is a distinction you can learn.
Gaming "journalism" is in a weird place because we have so many people without traditional training serving similar functions as traditionally trained journalists. I'm in my first semester of journalism as my second major and we've already spent a lot of time discussing how as a journalist, it's your job to consider how people might misinterpret what you say.
Whether Joe intended it or not, talking about reviews while showing a footage of a preview is something people could misconstrue. You want to mitigate those misinterpretations. But if Joe doesn't profess to be a professional journalist, but rather aligns himself as more of a YouTube personality, should we hold him to that same standard?
Personally, I think so. I think holding yourself accountable for misinterpretations should be a principle of discourse in general. Obviously there are limits (if someone's just wildly misinterpreting your points, to the extent that he's maybe trying to misrepresent them as a rhetorical ploy, that's more his fault, not yours), but in Joe's case, he certainly could have tried to be more cooperative. He hadn't intended to make that impression, fine; but he still should have seen how people might come to that impression themselves. It was an honest mistake, but one he should have owned up to.
At this point, if he could reach that conclusion himself, maybe he and Dan could, I 'unno, apologize? That'd be a sight to see. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd like a bit more cooperation out our gaming journalists and other figures who we like to watch duke it out over Twitter.
Whether Joe intended it or not, talking about reviews while showing a footage of a preview is something people could misconstrue. You want to mitigate those misinterpretations. But if Joe doesn't profess to be a professional journalist, but rather aligns himself as more of a YouTube personality, should we hold him to that same standard?
Personally, I think so. I think holding yourself accountable for misinterpretations should be a principle of discourse in general. Obviously there are limits (if someone's just wildly misinterpreting your points, to the extent that he's maybe trying to misrepresent them as a rhetorical ploy, that's more his fault, not yours), but in Joe's case, he certainly could have tried to be more cooperative. He hadn't intended to make that impression, fine; but he still should have seen how people might come to that impression themselves. It was an honest mistake, but one he should have owned up to.
At this point, if he could reach that conclusion himself, maybe he and Dan could, I 'unno, apologize? That'd be a sight to see. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but I'd like a bit more cooperation out our gaming journalists and other figures who we like to watch duke it out over Twitter.
While I think that Angry Joe is an immature kid who is popular because he tends to pander to circlejerks and rarely has anything insightful to say (unlike Jim Sterling which panders but does have insightful things to say), it really takes a lot to one up his immaturity. Dan managed to do that in spades by quibbling over 8.9 which any reasonable person knows its irrelevant compared to a 9. Dan must really be in a complete bubble over there at IGN if he cant see how they over hyped Titanfall to the Nth degree. Honestly as review systems go a yes, no, maybe is good, a 5 point system like Giant Bomb is good, and 10 point system is not so great, but IGNs 100 point system is total bollocks. How can someone even comprehend what the difference between 8.9 and 9.0, its so esoteric that you might as well start pulling magic numbers out of your ass.
Also as for Yahtzee, his Zero Punctuation have never been called reviews, ever. The only people who call them reviews are people who cant wrap their head around that or seem to have a personal beef with he mocks a game. I like his videos for games I both love or dismiss and he often has good points about silly mechanics or game tropes
Also as for Yahtzee, his Zero Punctuation have never been called reviews, ever. The only people who call them reviews are people who cant wrap their head around that or seem to have a personal beef with he mocks a game. I like his videos for games I both love or dismiss and he often has good points about silly mechanics or game tropes
fvng
Member
Perhaps the first thing gamers should recognize before they criticize gaming 'journalists' is that a guy who writes reviews or spouts opinions is not SUPPOSED to be a journalist, nor would they label themselves journalists.
You (and others) are mislabeling anyone in the gaming media with a platform as a journalist which is incredibly misguided and embarrassing to be frank. This is like knocking a crossing guard for not responding to 911 calls. That's not their position or role.
I am sure that as someone in journalism school, you recognize the difference between a pundit who editorializes and someone who is researching a story for eventual publication.
There is a very strict definition of journalism and what it is. Investigating and writing about important stories, doing research, interviewing key figures in the industry they cover..
Some examples of what Journalism is what Adam Sessler did all the time with Rev3Games interviewing developers and studio heads. He also wore the hat of pundit in addition to journalistic duties, so he juggled both roles well. Another great example is what Geoff Keighley recently did with his 'Final Hours of Titanfall' where he documents all the events leading up to the release of Titanfall and the behind the scenes business/drama that came along with it. Patricia Hernandez ranting about Dragon's Crown on Kotaku is not supposed to be journalism, she's writing opinions. You can't criticize her for something she knows she isn't.
Right now gamers are mislabeling people like Angry Joe or Patricia Hernandez as journalists and then using them as evidence that gaming journalism is in a bad state right now, when they're not even technically journalists.
Muffdraul
Member
Pretty sure it's the other way around. He turns into an even bigger bitch when people dismiss him as "not really a reviewer, he's just trying to be entertaining." He insists he's a proper critic.
Unless I heard that on opposite day.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Does this about sum it up?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So angry joe works for disney now?
We all know who his boss is...
We all know who his boss is...
Quote
Member
Sorry, annoyed and crossfire by things like this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0356721/quotes?item=qt0471846
fvng
Member
This is correct. His shtick is getting old, he does a disservice to any gamer that listens to him.
That's the environment I best enjoy video games as well. Why is that so funny or unbelievable to you?
I'm at 180 hours and am as happy as I was with the first ten. This shit is subjective. Something the cretinous, feature-checklist mentality attempts to conceal, as if feature quality emerges from quantity.
Another aside:
The line about 'the couch and Xbox Live being the ecosystem it's best enjoyed in' is comedy.
Wait.... is this an actual quote from an IGN preview?
RpgN
Junior Member
Yup. By the same guy who reviewed it as well.
If IGN want to make the line between 8.0-8.9 and 9.0 so definite they should invent their own scale where that's possible. With numbers that line is inherently blurred and when someone like Joe who uses a 10-point scale converts between their scale and his 8.5-8.9 = 9.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Angry Joe is a joke but so are IGNs previews. I'm amazed at how immature that public spat got with the namecalling.
Haunted
Member
:lol :lol
That's not even the kind of language you'd employ in an official marketing document, it's too hyperbolic and obvious.
JPeeples83
Member
Both guys came off as way too petty here, but Joe should've done the proper research before citing it as fact - it's not like IGN's a tough site to do basic research on.
Pakoe
Member
I'm at 180 hours and am as happy as I was with the first ten. This shit is subjective. Something the cretinous, feature-checklist mentality attempts to conceal, as if feature quality emerges from quantity.
Another aside:
The line about 'the couch and Xbox Live being the ecosystem it's best enjoyed in' is comedy.
Lol, is this serious...
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
I got lost while reading that. Who's rubber and who's glue again?
Violentine
Banned
This clown is still around? He's on the same level as hip hop gamer. All the way at the bottom.
um, freedom of speech means everyone's free to criticise someone else's opinion and is your prime argument really "it's not illegal for someone to say stuff"?
Yeah and you should do some basic research before accusing him of doing something he didn't. Joe didn't misquote anything, he used that preview line to describe the media hype machine, he never said it was from the review.
That preview is more clownish than any youtube "star" and it was written by a "professional" journalist.
Portugeezer
Member
I am pretty sure he prefers Xbox. Last gen he didn't even have a PS3 and his work revolves around gaming, I know, crazy. However he doesn't seem to be a fanboy (we'll see when he reviews more PS content this gen)
He has both XB1 and PS4 this gen.
fvng
Member
"I wish they made a block button!"
I block/parried every hit even in boss battles that's just lazy gaming where he probably skipped the tutorial.
He then says it's a good game and he forgives the game's short length *cough*
R_thanatos
Member
*sigh*
you should rewind the quotes to see the whole conversation before if you want to understand.
Because that's not what i'm saying
Problem is not a matter of opinion since he doesn't care about opinions in the first place , so his ( original ) point of dimissal is void.
Thank you very much.
SolidChamp
Banned
That whole IGN Preview quote is ridiculous.
"You will buy an Xbox One for Titanfall, and you should" But i have a decent pc ? "But your couch and the Xbox Live community will be the ecosystem it's best enjoyed in" How so? "crickets" M$
I can't believe people are just now catching onto this.
It is RYAN FUCKING MCCAFFREY!
We should expect nothing less from the little douche hat.
Weltall Zero
Member
Agreed on all three points. Nobody came out of this looking better.
That said, and concerning the first point, I'm pretty sick of previews always hyping games to all hell, and more importantly, everyone (journalists and consumers alike) taking that as perfectly normal behavior that isn't give it a second thought. And I think it's about time we gave it a second thought. A lot of people buy games day 1 without waiting for a review, often based on previews alone; why are they exempt of any semblance of objectivity? Expressing excitement about a game even when it's not complete is OK, but crap like "believe the hype" is every bit as out of place in a preview than it is in a review, if not more.
Of course, less than glowing previews lead to game companies not lending preview builds to those journalists anymore, so the only journalists that get previews in the first place are those who've shown to build up to the hype. It's an even harder cycle to break than that of early reviews; a journalist can always simply wait for a retail copy, even if it means being late to the punch (which is often enough for game publishers), but there's not much they can do about previews. It's not an easy situation to solve, but at least we could stop giving game news sources a free pass when it comes to previews.
forknknife
Banned
That whole IGN Preview quote is ridiculous.
"You will buy an Xbox One for Titanfall, and you should" But i have a decent pc ? "But your couch and the Xbox Live community will be the ecosystem it's best enjoyed in" How so? "crickets" M$
Holy shit, and it's even a preview! Fuck IGN, really. Shameless.
that would be reasonable
styl3s
Member
Yeah but we kind of expect this sort of behavior from Angry Joe. This is kind of his schtick.
But this childish brat from IGN? Dude represents one of the biggest if not biggest gaming sites on the planet, take that shit to email to PM. I wouldn't be surprised if he got let go for acting out like this.
Well, arguing over a '0.1' is a bit redundant, but I suppose he's absolutely right that they gave it what they deem as being in the eights and not the nines, as Joe had alleged. It's picky as all hell and not worth debating over, but that's their review score system. Quoting from the preview like that is the bigger issue, though. That's just not on.
I have no idea how anyone can defend Vargas. He continuously does this. The name-calling, the general verbal mistreat of other writers and people in the industry. He's slowly digging himself a big hole and if he seriously thinks he has a future in this, then he should seriously consider rethinking his behaviour. It's just uncalled for. He seems to just be one of those people on a power trip because of his position of minor internet fame. He thinks he's invisible, but he's not. Burning bridges in the professional world like this isn't a good idea.
It's fine to criticise other writers' work within reason, but personally attacking them by calling them names over a misquotation situation is just unbelievably infantile. This shouldn't have escalated into this big, unnecessary spat. He should have just apologised.
I have no idea how anyone can defend Vargas. He continuously does this. The name-calling, the general verbal mistreat of other writers and people in the industry. He's slowly digging himself a big hole and if he seriously thinks he has a future in this, then he should seriously consider rethinking his behaviour. It's just uncalled for. He seems to just be one of those people on a power trip because of his position of minor internet fame. He thinks he's invisible, but he's not. Burning bridges in the professional world like this isn't a good idea.
It's fine to criticise other writers' work within reason, but personally attacking them by calling them names over a misquotation situation is just unbelievably infantile. This shouldn't have escalated into this big, unnecessary spat. He should have just apologised.
That's the joke of this all (and why I never bother with review scores or metacritic): There's no real difference between and 8.9 and a 9.0
I wouldn't blame someone for thinking an 8.9 score was effectively the same as a 9.
I guess? I think people give way too much weight to review scores. They're utterly meaningless.
TekGryphon
Banned
The fact that he's arguing that there's a substantive difference between 8.9 and 9.0 suggests to me what most of us already suspect - that publishers can "buy in" to different grading ranges. Titanfall bought into a range that guaranteed them a high score, say 8.6 to 10, and thus the .1 falls on a 15 point grading scale which is actually substantial.
I think that may be reaching. I'm not saying this doesn't happen (how the hell would I know) just that I don't believe this is a common sense inference.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I don't understand Dan's argument that the game is in the 8-8.9 range. Surely an 8.9 has more in common with a 9.0 than an 8.0 game? If not, then they need to evaluate their review process. I think the best system is the "buy, rent, ignore" system. Whenever I ask friends or read people's opinion on GAF that's all I look for, not a score. Hell, if I went off a score I wouldn't have considered getting EDF 2025. And to drive home the silliness of this argument, the review final score is not far off from IGN's preview hype so I don't know why they feel they're being misrepresented.