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[MvmntInGrn]

Misleading subject is misleading. Shame on you.

Quite confusing.

The "Zelda guy" himself discredits GAF's #1 game of all time:

Originally Posted by Eiji Aonuma:
It's complicated. Past things belong to our memories, and they grow bigger in there. If you play Ocarina of Time nowadays, you notice that it's not that good. Sometimes it doesn't move as fast as it should, graphics aren't as beautiful as they should be; there are some confusing parts... Any present Zelda is technically superior. Everything goes faster, more fluid... but to best Ocarina of Time, a great change –comparable to what happened back then- must be introduced. And that'll be rather complicated.

According to this, it sounds more like he agrees with GAFs placement(edit: or more correctly its placement in regard to other Zelda games), not discrediting it. While he says newer Zelda are technically superior in fluidity and graphic fidelity, the have not bested Ocarina of Time.

Not meaning to attack anyones opinions, but I don't think he is saying what may are assuming him to, unless I'm missing something?

In the end you don't have to agree with him either, I think a lot of people are trying to be on "his side" without even being sure what that it.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Here's another quote:

"When a project grows continuously, you have to split it to pieces. I was the director for Wind Waker, but I let different people be responsible for different parts of the production. I had control of how things were going for them, but at the end of the production we fought against the clock and there were parts that I was forced to approve even though it didn't feel complete. I apologize that we didn't fix the triforce hunt at the end of the game. It was slow and dull." -- Eiji Aonuma

Well, I suppose it was due to the fact that the Gamecube was in big trouble and that a Zelda game was really needed.

 

[roxya]

i think super mario 64 has aged much, much better than oot.

I think by todays standards, SM64 plays much better than OOT.

 

[cooljeanius]

Kind of surprised to see him say that OoT doesn't hold up well today. It's still very playable.

I think he's talking in technical/graphical terms. I mean, obviously for the N64 it was good, but nowadays the framerate stutters, textures are smeary, models are low-poly, the camera often messes up, etc... Playing it for the first time on VC was rough to get into after being used to more current 3D games. Sure in terms of gameplay it's extremely playable, but I don't think he meant "held up" in that way.

 

[Leminnes]

I seriously want to know why he never speaks so highly of Majora's Mask. From what I know, it was the first game almost entirely created by his vision. Of course he worked on OoT, but I always felt that MM was more of his creation. The things that made MM (and OoT) great are not technical but mostly the storytelling. I'm not sure if he realizes this, but it is a bit of a comfort that he realizes that OoT isn't that good by today's standards but I'd also like to hear him say why MM and OoT are still highly regarded for their atmosphere and storytelling.

(That sounds a bit like I'm rambling. Sorry, I'm a bit tired. -_-)

 

[TheHeretic]

I seriously want to know why he never speaks so highly of Majora's Mask. From what I know, it was the first game almost entirely created by his vision. Of course he worked on OoT, but I always felt that MM was more of his creation. The things that made MM (and OoT) great are not technical but mostly the storytelling. I'm not sure if he realizes this, but it is a bit of a comfort that he realizes that OoT isn't that good by today's standards but I'd also like to hear him say why MM and OoT are still highly regarded for their atmosphere and storytelling.

(That sounds a bit like I'm rambling. Sorry, I'm a bit tired. -_-)

Regardless of the games other qualities the Zelda series is far removed from having anything resembling decent storytelling.

 

[Metal B]

these comments by aonuma make me worry that he doesn't actually understand why OOT was/is so good.

He knows why OoT is such a good game, but his problem is that he always looks on the parts that were not that good or had to cut out. He feels like just trying to perfect OoT with the later games. This interview gives me hope, that he finally breaks his vicious circle and really tries to change the Oot Zelda formula.

 

[Dr Bad Dude PHD]

gaf, before you overreact, this is of course very much true because of the rampant evolutions in gameplay and technology over the past decade.

though it is arguably deserving of 'the best game ever' title because it was so good when it first came out.

I see your point but personally I think a game that is going to be praised as 'the best game ever' should be able to hold it's own years after its initial release. There are a lot of older games that are still very playable today, OoT is not one of them.

 

[andymcc]

I think by todays standards, SM64 plays much better than OOT.

i think that was implied in my post, but, yes, this is very true.

 

[CiSTM]

"Any present Zelda is technically superior."

I can agree with this but Ocarina of time is still second best Zelda game in my books.

 

[MvmntInGrn]

I don't understand the "playability" argument.

There is nothing about OOT I find unplayable, game still feels great to me.
edit: should not have said unplayable, I guess I mean saying games like SM64 are more playable.

SM64 feels more aged to me personally.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Regardless of the games other qualities the Zelda series is far removed from having anything resembling decent storytelling.

Oh boy. Enough. Majora's Mask was very good in this sense. The storyline was told through every single different character and every single relation between them. Stories are not only good when they're long, but mostly if the characterization of the cast is well developed.

Majora's Mask, in its obvious technical limits, did really a good job.

 

[timetokill]

I don't know....

I mean, yes, the more recent Zelda games are more technically polished. But I don't think you could really say that Wind Waker has better pacing, for example, or even better dungeons.

The first hour of Ocarina of Time is, I think, still one of the best ever made. It's extremely well-designed and holds up today.

The progression and pacing of Ocarina is still great, even if it's perhaps a little slow. It's still incredibly well designed. Of course, for any good game designer, you learn from your successes and your mistakes. I'm sure that Twilight Princess tests far better than Ocarina does today, because they've been able to refine it and improve on the formula. So of course the older mechanics aren't as polished as they are today, but that's almost obvious, and I think that's what Aonuma is focusing on. As far as "playing as Link," they've been improving on that dramatically with each iteration.

But as far as what you do with Link, Ocarina is still one of the strongest games in the series. And it has one of the most memorable, impressive boss battles of all time. Those are things that are hard to replicate, even through formula.

 

[newelly87]

So we scratch OOT of the list cause it sucks... changes nothing. All the retarded fanboys will still bitch and moan cause another Nintendo game moves up to number 1.

 

[Mega Mike]

Hype train imminent in this thread.

 

[wandering goat]

... but to best Ocarina of Time, a great change –comparable to what happened back then- must be introduced.

This is absolutely, 100% correct and is one of the main reasons why Zeldas post OoT (especially Twilight Princess), while being technically solid and overall fun games, have not had nearly the same impact. I'm hoping this is all leading to the new Zelda being as big a change as he seems to have been hinting at.

 

[LazerRanger]

Go Aonuma, put some sense in the Nin fans.

It's so obvious that OOT is not the "best" game at the moment but who can convince them ?

OOT being No1 in GAF's list is something laughable, I mean the game is great but I can name more than 100 games that has better core gameplay and mechanics than OOT.

Please name just ten but remember that most third person action games built on the template of OoT and think about whether the fancy next gen ones (which I love) are going to stand as tall when their tech is outdated as Ocarina.

To clarify I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, I owned a Wii but sold it when times were hard and the games that were out didn't interest me. But Ocarina of Time is still in at least my top five games for how innovative it was at the time and how even know it still feels fun to play even its tech flaws are obvious.

 

[Night_Trekker]

Do not agree with Aonuma.

 

[Aaron]

Link to the Past is still the best Zelda anyway, making this all moot.

 

[Cartman86]

Not uncommon for a creator of something to not be entirely satisfied with their work. You hear this all the time. They are so close to the work that they are never quite satisfied.

 

[beelzebozo]

you mean an eleven year old n64 game is technically inferior to modern games? fuuuuck you're fucking me up, changing my perspective on shiiiiiiit

anyway, just talking about this game makes me want to bust it out. i play it every christmas. give me two weeks and i'll be hunting big poes in hyrule field while i watch mr. magoo's christmas carol.

 

[TheShampion]

The only thing that really aged badly technically in Oot for me are those terrible pre-rendered backdrops. So bad. Other than that, and perhaps relying on a N64 controller, I think the VC shows that it aged pretty well.

 

[markot]

At least they keep pushing themselves ^_^

I like that they acknowledge the faults of past titles.

I kind of agree, it feels... slow kinda, I guess. Its not so playable for me anyway.

I still think its one of the greatest games ever! But its a victim of its... era. I kind of feel the same way about Mario 64.

 

[Parl]

OoT is still by far the best game ever in my opinion, but it's interesting to hear his opinion on the game. His standards are obviously very high, and I have high hopes for the next Zelda.

Yeah, I've played it recently, and it's still a great game. The pacing isn't fast, but the pacing for both Zelda's and stuff like Final Fantasys and other late 90s stuff slowed down a lot once they reached the late 90s. OoT and FFVII both slowed down a lot, though I liked the slow pace in OoT because I was playing most of it, as opposed to reading or watching something.

That's why it still holds up well, but he's going to look at it from a developer perspective, and it IS a good idea to increase the pace and to have fresher experiences now, as playing a game you haven't played before is often better than playing a better game you've already played.

 

[dani_dc]

I'm still not convinced he has a vision to where the take the series next and instead keeps trying different things in hopes something will stick.

With that said, it's nice to finally see Aonuma realizing that he as been focusing too much trying to best OoT during all this years. You don't make a better game simply by looking at a 11 years old game and trying to surprass it, you have to understand what made it good. And more than that, you need to look at the mechanics and design of the series as a whole and try to figure out where it should go next, not be fixated in one game, no matter how good it was at the time.

With that said I still don't trust him in regards of the series future. It has been way too long since the last Zelda that really amazed the world, and with Aonuma in front of the franchise, at this point I regard MM has a fluke, I doubt we will get one of those again, we'll probably keep getting numerous solid, and some even great, sequels, but I've lost hope of seeing another Zelda that will surprass people expectations as the series used to up to MM.


It's time to move the series to someone else.

 

[Sipowicz]

i wish other developers could have that much insight

guy is spot on

 

[eXistor]

I've been replaying OoT for years; Oot is "still as good as ever" today.

 

[Jocchan]

but to best Ocarina of Time, a great change –comparable to what happened back then- must be introduced.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear from him.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Oot is "still as good as ever" today.

to be fair, this is because of this

I've been replaying OoT for years.

 

[_Alkaline_]

to be fair, this is because of this

OoT really does stand the test of time though. And I don't say that lightly either.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Original Interview: Revogamers.net
Translation: Good Net Inn

If I remember correctly the original interview is not from that page, but from the spanish newspaper El Mundo.
It surprised me that not a videogame magazine, but an spanish newspaper, did a better interview that the ones that magazine or videogame pages have been doing to Aonuma or other people from the sector.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

OoT really does stand the test of time though. And I don't say that lightly either.

oh, I still love it too. I usually play it before the next big Zelda release, along with Wind Waker and now TP.

 

[syllogism]

OoT has aged really poorly, I'd pretty much play any older Zelda over it

 

[GoDLiKe]

Well, it's easy to say that after more than 10 years. For me, OoT isn't only playable but still the best Zelda ever made.

The problem is that I think they are afraid to implement some new ideas - besides Phantom Hourglass. Maybe this will change with the new Zelda Wii, because they are just recycling the ideas that were implemented in OoT. This franchise needs a major overhaul.

 

[TheCardPlayer]

Link to the Past is still the best Zelda anyway, making this all moot.

Holy fucking shit, there's another like me! Hail, brother!

 

[Majukun]

Any present Zelda is technically superior.

technically doesn't mean graphics and such?
if so..where's the news?

 

[Shig]

I don't know....

I mean, yes, the more recent Zelda games are more technically polished. But I don't think you could really say that Wind Waker has better pacing, for example, or even better dungeons.

I can most definitely say that WW had better dungeons, because it most certainly did. It just didn't have enough of them.

 

[Steroyd]

instead of doing a better OoT he wants to make a new change which is what I have been hoping they would do. TP was a great send off to the formula, time to do something different.

I just hope they're not TOO smart about whatever changes, folding the DS in half after travelling to the end of a dungeon that had no shortcuts, or checkpoints of any kind wasn't a nice experience... genius but awfully frustratingly evil at the same time.

 

[beelzebozo]

show me your new game aonuma. SHOW ME.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I feel the same way, in that people give OOT more credit for being first and innovative despite later games (MM aside) being better overall packages.

I really hope the next Zelda makes a few drastic changes to he formula - more general use items (instead of dungeon specific items) would be better, as well as more loot in general in the overworld instead of rupees/heart pieces. How about a true leveling system that makes it worthwhile to grind through respawning enemies?

Spoiler

On a slightly related note, I really can't see how people can go back and play GTA3/VC/SA after playing GTA4, MGS after playing Twin Snakes, or Goldeneye after playing any modern FPS. My nostalgia glasses just don't extend to the N64/PSX gen 3D anymore.

 

[Darkpen]

The problem is that when people say they want a "remake" of OoT, they really mean they want to reexperience the magic that was experiencing OoT for the first time. Its that jump to 3D and then some more.

You go back to OoT now, and its aged poorly. The core of it is awesome, but its presentation feels downright archaic; analogous to pre-NES home console games.

There will never be, and there shouldn't be, an OoT remake, but there does need to be a spiritual successor to what made it such a game changer and memorable.

 

[dcdobson]

Link to the Past is still the best Zelda anyway, making this all moot.

True dat.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

So we scratch OOT of the list cause it sucks... changes nothing. All the retarded fanboys will still bitch and moan cause another Nintendo game moves up to number 1.

Do you have a problem accepting the opinion of other people? If you become upset for such a little thing, I wonder how do you behave for serious things.

 

[MGrant]

I haven't played OoT from start to finish in... 11 years? Seriously I think I've only beaten the Spirit Temple once. But the dungeons are seriously some of the strongest gaming memories I have.

Deku Tree - brilliant. Perhaps the perfect opening dungeon.
Dodongo's Cavern - Not bad, but kind of underwhelming.
Jabu Jabu - So memorable. Really cool idea, if a little short and linear for a Zelda dungeon.
Forest Temple - Loved the atmosphere and the big ghost puzzle. And fuck yeah Phantom Ganon!
Fire Temple - Oh my god. The atmosphere! The music (pre-censorship)! The hammer! Volvagia!
Water Temple - lol boots. Seriously not bad, or even frustrating, but lacking.
Shadow Temple - Creepy, disorienting, fun.
Spirit Temple - Yes! That's what I want from multi-part dungeons. Forget whatever PH tried to do, this was the perfect way to tackle completing a dungeon in multiple trips.

Now that I think about it, all of these dungeons were relatively short. Took maybe ann hour to get through the longest ones, whereas today we live in a world of 2 to 3-hour dungeons.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Aonuma still owes me 3.99 (the price of calling Nintendo's help line) for not knowing that I had to shoot an arrow at the sun.


Asshole.

 

[beelzebozo]

Aonuma still owes me 3.99 (the price of calling Nintendo's help line) for not knowing that I had to shoot an arrow at the sun.


Asshole.

i had to call when i was little and playing LINK TO THE PAST because i couldn't figure out how to get into the water temple in the dark world. the ol' halcyon pre-internet days.

 

[666]

Yep, you've been blowing it, boyfriend.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Shit. Hearing about Zelda Wii being realistic pisses me off. I'd at least like a mix of of cell shading and realism. Hell, I guess I'd accept another realistic Zelda if the artstyle is drastically different than TP, but seeing the single art we have for the game, I shouldnt' get my hopes up.

 

[Dandy]

OoT is severely overrated? Who knew?
Seriously though, I've suddenly become really excited for the next Zelda game.

 

[beelzebozo]

james cameron contends c.g.i. in TERMINATOR 2 "a little dated"