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[D-e-f-]

I disagree.

Bethesda may have its own problems, but it didn't get to being considered one of the top devs in the industry by completely sucking at EVERYTHING. Nintendo could and should take a few pointers on world building and deeper play mechanics. My biggest problem with the last few Zelda games is how ultimately shallow they end up being.

If you go back and look at what actually is in all the Zelda games, you'd be surprised how off-the-mark your post is. The Zelda games do exemplary work in terms of world building if you devote your attention to the NPCs and sidecharacters and their individual stories or backstories and how the world is laid out with the people in it.

And I don't get the part about deeper play mechanics. Do you want stats? Raise elemental defense by 12?

 

[DragonSworne]

Which games do you think miyamoto shouldve wanted to create?

GTAV, there is a lot there from a design and technology perspective that someone like Miyamoto could take away and build his own type of game from. The environment and map design in GTAV is leagues beyond anything Nintendo has implemented outside of Monolith

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

There's positive and negative in that. Especially since (outside the awesome indie presence and the ideas contained there) most publishers were presenting the same thing they usually do. The "AAA" industry is... well, just watch the Conan segment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO5imsViKp0

He also didn't see everything at E3, because pretty much nobody does.

This is awesome lol

GTAV, there is a lot there from a design and technology perspective that someone like Miyamoto could take away and build his own type of game from. The environment and map design in GTAV is leagues beyond anything Nintendo has implemented outside of Monolith

Stupid miyamoto, shouldve walked into that rockstar booth.

 

[D-e-f-]

Not bad, but not doing anything out of the ordinary that Nintendo should "learn" from, especially considering the difference in perspective between the two games.

Well, if you hate yourself, you can play the Elder Scrolls and recent Fallout games in third person

GTAV, there is a lot there from a design and technology perspective that someone like Miyamoto could take away and build his own type of game from. The environment and map design in GTAV is leagues beyond anything Nintendo has implemented outside of Monolith

This is awesome lol

Stupid miyamoto, shouldve walked into that rockstar booth.

Funny thing: Rockstar is never at E3 so GTAV wasn't even there. Boom! What now?

 

[Dr.Hadji]

3D World is directed by Hayashida.

Edit: Got his name wrong the first time.

Even though the first half of my post was a joke. What does the fact that someone other than Koizumi is directing 3d World supposed to prove? He's producing the game. Are you trying to absolve him of the negative press about the game because he's not listed as director?

he's more than qualified.

Wow, didn't know about assist directing WW. I ask you though. Knowing the common wish lists people have for Zelda (being more open being a main one). What on this list shows you Koizumi has a feel for a non linear game or a more open game? Sunshine is a more restrictive game than Mario64. Who was responsible for that? WW sure had an open feel but that also came with stretches of open sea and the infamous Tri-Force hunt. Who was responsible for that? I'm not inditing the guy I just don't see it for sure in his previous work.

What I do see from that list is Koizumi has a knack for story and story telling. If you told me a Koizumi Zelda would probably have a rockin story, that'd I'd believe.

 

[Coolwhip]

When there's even a slight chance to make an off-hand, dumb-ass criticism of Nintendo's business practices, he'll be there, with nothing further or insightful to say. Just one drive-by post will do.

Yep, his replies are always very level headed and always include some crazy demand for someone to retire.

 

[Frodo]

Welp. I don't really think it matters at this point.

MichaelFassbenderIsPerfection.gif

 

[royalan]

What deeper play mechanics? The skill trees? Skyrim is pretty shallow in the gameplay department. It's like a big puddle, you can do a lot of stuff but it's all pretty easy.

As someone who's played Bethesda's games rather extensively, I'm not sure you want to go down the path of calling them "deep mechanics" in many respects. There was a large thread not too long ago discussing just that (and the lack thereof), if you feel like digging it up.

Really? I understand the presentation of the open world, and why that's so popular in these games, but as far as how the game actually plays, I just can't agree. Compared to the gameplay in Zelda, particularly that of Skyward Sword, I found Skyrims to be very mechanical and average. Not bad, but not doing anything out of the ordinary that Nintendo should "learn" from, especially considering the difference in perspective between the two games.

Maybe "deeper" is the wrong way to put it.


What I mean is that, when I play Skyrim, I'm introduced to a lot of different ways I can play the game - from stats and items to the mechanics themselves. There's more variety, I suppose is what I'm trying to say, which lends itself to more freedom in how I can approach the game. I think this is something Nintendo could definitely pick up for Zelda, especially since it's supposed to be their big "exploration" type game.

 

[jmls1121]

GTAV, there is a lot there from a design and technology perspective that someone like Miyamoto could take away and build his own type of game from. The environment and map design in GTAV is leagues beyond anything Nintendo has implemented outside of Monolith

You are taking crazy pills.

 

[Coolwhip]

There's positive and negative in that. Especially since (outside the awesome indie presence and the ideas contained there) most publishers were presenting the same thing they usually do. The "AAA" industry is... well, just watch the Conan segment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO5imsViKp0

He also didn't see everything at E3, because pretty much nobody does.

Loved that bit. Really telling for current console gaming being stale.

 

[Busaiku]

Hurray.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

How is Skyrim significant? It does nothing new. It does nothing that other open world games haven't done and done better. The only thing that sets it apart from other open world RPGs is it's size.

How is Skyrim significant... How is the most popular, successful, played, etc RPG video game in the last I don't know, 5 YEARS, significant? Good grief man. That shit doesn't just happen.

 

[Glass Rebel]

But Koizumi is has almost become another GAF pariah for making that lazy, handheld rehash of a game in Mario 3d World. He made awesome games before? Who cares. We're a "what have you done for me lately" culture. He can go join Sakamoto and Eiji for tarnishing such a Nintendo classic.

Seriously though, who says Koizumi would even be well suited to make a Zelda game? Since he made his solo debut year ago on Jungle Beat, he seems like hes well suited in making linear style action games. And the common complaints people have about Zelda are things he doesn't deal with in the games he makes.

You can't make all Zelda fans happy either way and we'd get a Zelda game by one of their best directors.

 

[-Horizon-]

Welp. I don't really think it matters at this point.

Amazing

 

[B-Dubs]

How is Skyrim significant... How is the most popular, successful, played, etc RPG video game in the last I don't know, 5 YEARS, significant? Good grief man. That shit doesn't just happen.

It does absolutely nothing different. It does nothing new. It does the same shit as every other open world RPG except with worse gameplay. It would be significant if it changed how we look at RPGs. If it changed how we played them. It did neither of those things. All it was is popular and that alone doesn't make it significant. It's significant in the same way Beiber is significant.

 

[RobFox64tm]

GTAV, there is a lot there from a design and technology perspective that someone like Miyamoto could take away and build his own type of game from. The environment and map design in GTAV is leagues beyond anything Nintendo has implemented outside of Monolith

This is just wrong. How can you be so certain as to what you're saying here? It's all based on your own opinions of these games. Stop trying to turn subjective criticism into cold hard facts. You are also almost literally comparing apples to oranges, which furthers your arguement towards the realm of insane rambling. You need to give up now; you are way off base here. You've expressed your disdain with Nintendo and Zelda; you have that right. Now just move on please.

Edit: Also you're talking about a game that you've unlikely never played to begin with. Too many assumptions to take what you're saying seriously.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

You can't make all Zelda fans happy either way and we'd get a Zelda game by one of their best directors.

I like the option much better than Retro Zelda (I'm glad that has died down).

 

[D-e-f-]

Maybe "deeper" is the wrong way to put it.


What I mean is that, when I play Skyrim, I'm introduced to a lot of different ways I can play the game - from stats and items to the mechanics themselves. There's more variety, I suppose is what I'm trying to say, which lends itself to more freedom in how I can approach the game. I think this is something Nintendo could definitely pick up for Zelda, especially since it's supposed to be their big "exploration" type game.

So you mean make an entirely different game? Elder Scrolls games are about the world. You're just some random person who happens to be in that world. There is zero authored story if you want it that way. Zelda games, *cough* The Legend of Zelda games *cough* are about a boy chosen to fulfill the destined role of the hero to end whatever evil that has befallen the land (Zelda not even being in a bunch of the games makes the name seem kinda weird lol). The games are all built around a central, linear, authored narrative where going off and living in the woods for 20 hours killing wolves would be totally jarring.

I, too, would love a little more openness but it's not some Holy Grail that needs to be chased after. It's not like they're failing to come up with other worthwhile ideas.

How is Skyrim significant... How is the most popular, successful, played, etc RPG video game in the last I don't know, 5 YEARS, significant? Good grief man. That shit doesn't just happen.

Yes, how is it significant other than being a more streamlined, accessible version of Oblivion, Morrowind and Daggerfall set in a different region?

It's a sandbox-RPG. Zelda is not a sandbox-RPG. And it shouldn't be. I have no issues if NIntendo wanted to create a brand new game in the sandbox (-RPG) style but they definitely shouldn't see this as some kind of target to reach for with the Zelda series.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

So you are satisfied with Nintendo's lead producers/designers being ignorant to the latest and greatest in game design and technology?

Did you just call Skyrim the latest and greatest in game design and technology?

...

Have you ever played Skyrim?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

It does absolutely nothing different. It does nothing new. It does the same shit as every other open world RPG except with worse gameplay. It would be significant if it changed how we look at RPGs. If it changed how we played them. All it was is popular and that alone doesn't make it significant.

You might as well find a different hobby because if a game has to reinvent a genre and do something totally new, you aren't going to be playing many great games- including Zelda games.

edit: I seriously think something is significantly wrong with people who dismiss Skyrim as if it's a piece of shit. It might not get everything right, but it aims to do one thing exceptionally well, and it does. If running around styling on everything is what you want for combat, look elsewhere. It's an Elder Scrolls game.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

He played Skyrim because it was phonetically close to Skyward Sword? Here I was puzzled at why the Zelda franchise was so stagnant.

 

[mantidor]

If I wasn't on my crappy phone I would quote myself from the original thread where I thought it was clear he wasn't inspired by Skyrim the way everyone was assuming.

I don't know if there is some serious issue with the translation in japanese dev's interviews, it's the same crazyness like the one about Kamiya and Starfox.

 

[Glass Rebel]

He played Skyrim because it was phonetically close to Skyward Sword? Here I was puzzled at why the Zelda franchise was so stagnant.

That's quite the leap in logic.

 

[B-Dubs]

You might as well find a different hobby because if a game has to reinvent a genre and do something totally new, you aren't going to be playing many great games- including Zelda games.

It doesn't have to do something new, but if you are going to call a game significant then it should. I have no problem with games just doing what they are doing, but lets not call that significant because we both know it isn't. Otherwise you wouldn't have sidestepped my point the way you did.

 

[Liha]

I want a Zelda, no Skyrim clone.

 

[Boney]

Jesús por aonuma

Honestly, I think pretty much every Nintendo producers has been working their asses off because of the immense pressure to keep the software ecosystem going.

Bu aonuma defs has it the worst

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

It doesn't have to do something new, but if you are going to call a game significant then it should. I have no problem with games just doing what they are doing, but lets not call that significant because we both know it isn't. Otherwise you wouldn't have sidestepped my point the way you did.

How about a dragon randomly landing on a house in town, starting epic battles with the people in the town who can die permanently? I can see not being thrilled with the combat (even thought 'The Elder Scrolls' is on the damn box), but arguing that Skyrim is just another RPG on the shelf... that's cynicism (and maybe game elitism?) on a pretty weird scale. People took vacation days for this game and loved every minute of it.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Disaster averted, but I still have VERY low expectations for the next Zelda after everything from Twilight Princess onward slowly destroyed my faith in the franchise and Aonuma.

Aonuma seems like the kind of guy who has more than earned the chance to make something other than Zelda for a while. Let the guy loose on a new IP, or at the very least let him bring back another old Nintendo franchise. I know the Zelda series is expansive and interesting, but it must still be depressing to be stuck making the same thing for 20 years.

 

[zroid]

LOL Aonuma. Best reason to play Skyrim I've ever heard.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

How about a dragon randomly landing on a house in town, starting epic battles with the people in the town who can die permanently?

On paper thats how it works.

In reality its more like, you fast travel to a location, theres a dragon there because reasons, everyone in the area starts spamming arrows into the sky, some hit another NPC and the npcs start fighting each other while a wolf starts attacking the dragon that landed in an inaccessible piece of mountain scenery near the town.

Meanwhile quest npcs start spazzing out by attacking each other, being knocked out, waking up and attacking each other again, as you spam the jump button to try and get out of the gap between a bucket and the wall you were knocked into and cant escape.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

On paper thats how it works.

In reality its more like, you fast travel to a location, theres a dragon there because reasons, everyone in the area starts spamming arrows into the sky, some hit another NPC and the npcs start fighting each other while a wolf starts attacking the dragon that landed in an inaccessible piece of mountain scenery near the town.

Meanwhile quest npcs start spazzing out by attacking each other, being knocked out, waking up and attacking each other again, as you spam the jump button to try and get out of the gap between a bucket and the wall you were knocked into and cant escape.

Is that your take? That this is normally how it goes?

 

[B-Dubs]

Is that your take? That this is normally how it goes?

Sounds closer to my experiences with that mechanic.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Sounds closer to my experiences with that mechanic.

I'm sure it is.

I'm sure if you have a problem with the game, you're going to highlight some bad glitch or series of glitches due to a bug in your save or something. The game has it's issues. For the vast majority of players, it plays out just fine. Dragon appears in town, guards and townspeople react and defend, you jump in the fight, no problems.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Is that your take? That this is normally how it goes?

Well, yeah, because I played longer than the heavily scripted intro sequence.

 

[Ninty Legend]

This has got to be the biggest derp derp moment I have seen from Nintendo. -_-


They truly are lost and out of touch with the industry. Nintendo should make it a point for their lead producers/designers to play the highest critically acclaimed games in the industry and keep up current events, but nope, we get derp responses like this more often than not.

Unbelievable.

The hate is strong in this one. Seems there's always some needless comment like this in Nintendo threads.

But he does sound tired! Hopefully he gets some rest after the next game is done.

 

[Albo]

I'm a little concerned his fatigue with working on the series is going to impact the zelda games he's working on. Perhaps after Zelda U is finished he should consider working on a smaller scale project since he's said he wants to work on something different before retiring in the next ten years. There's a few candidates who could take his place if he were to step down.

Yoichi Yamada

-co-directed The Adventure of Link
-assistant director (A Link to the Past and The Wind Waker),
-game system director (Ocarina of Time)
-sub-director (Twilight Princess),

Takashi Tezuka

-co-directed the original LOZ and OOT
-Directed ALTTP and LA solo
-Supervisor on MM and OOX games
-Also worked on FSA (the last zelda he worked on) and directed super mario world 2

Yoshiaki Koizumi

-Writer on LA, OOT and MM
-Directed OOT and MM

Satoru Takizawa

-Art director on TP
-Art and character design in OOT, MM, TP and WW

Hidemaro Fujibayasi

-Directed SS, OOX games, FS and MC

Koji Kondo

-Worked on music for 12 zelda games and countless other ninty titles

I'd go for Kozumi or Yamada. They're younger and most experienced to handle Aonuma's job. Tezuka's an old fellow and hasn't worked on a zelda since FSA.

If you want I could PM you a link once I'm done writing this thing.

Could you PM me too please, if you can. I've just played the prologue to TP today (and SS recently) so I'd be interested to read your opinion on them.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

That's quite the leap in logic.

I am all about giant gulfs of empty space between information and logic.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Why would you not look at other games for inspiration? He's either lying because of a fear of litigation (hopefully), or just stupidly wilfully ignorant?

 

[Tripon]

they're working this guy to the bone eh

I think it's time to give the reigns to Koizumi for a bit. Give Aonuma some vacation time.

They probably will. I'd like to see what aonuma can do on a straight action title similar to the veins like devil may cry.

 

[Boogybro]

I'm not critizing Aonuma for not following Skyrim.

I am criticizing him for only playing Skyrim because it sounds like Skyward sword. I am criticizing Nintendo for not having a policy that requires their game developers to play critically acclaimed games. Because to me, this means Nintendo is far behind in game design and the new Zelda will be just another template of aLttP.

So Nintendo's main franchises are not critically acclaimed, well reviewed game? Ok I think I understand.

 

[javac]

Why would you not look at other games for inspiration? He's either lying because of a fear of litigation (hopefully), or just stupidly wilfully ignorant?

Well the Zelda games are fucking amazing thus far so whatever the fuck he's doing...keep doing that!

 

[RagnarokX]

He played Skyrim because it was phonetically close to Skyward Sword? Here I was puzzled at why the Zelda franchise was so stagnant.

It's so stagnant that it broke the stagnation counter and rolled over into every Zelda game in the past decade being very different from each other!

 

[brandonh83]

Wasn't concerned. Zelda has always been mostly terrific IMO.

It's so stagnant that it broke the stagnation counter and rolled over into every Zelda game in the past decade being very different from each other!

Seriously, I just... don't even.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Why would you not look at other games for inspiration? He's either lying because of a fear of litigation (hopefully), or just stupidly wilfully ignorant?

He's only saying that he doesn't try to force it. I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

[RagnarokX]

Wasn't concerned. Zelda has always been mostly terrific IMO.



Seriously, I just... don't even.

Are you disagreeing with me or the person I quoted?

 

[The Lamp]

Thank Ganon

Thank fuck.

Thank God.

Thank fuck for that.

Thank the Goddesses

Thank jesus

Thank G-d.

Thank the Dark Lord Ganon.

ALBW will be the game that brings me back into the Zelda fold, so I'm hoping that Zelda U can keep me there.

Lots of people to thank, it looks like.

 

[EatChildren]

Zelda Wii U will be the first multiplayer heavy 3D Zelda. It will be set in Hyrule, but there will be more than one mount available, and will have a dumb Monster Hunter-esque crafting system bolted on.

 

[sphagnum]

Zelda Wii U will be the first multiplayer heavy 3D Zelda. It will be set in Hyrule, but there will be more than one mount available, and will have a dumb Monster Hunter-esque crafting system bolted on.

None of this would surprise me.

 

[D-e-f-]

Why would you not look at other games for inspiration? He's either lying because of a fear of litigation (hopefully), or just stupidly wilfully ignorant?

You should actually read what he said.

Zelda Wii U will be the first multiplayer heavy 3D Zelda. It will be set in Hyrule, but there will be more than one mount available, and will have a dumb Monster Hunter-esque crafting system bolted on.

You forgot recharging health and DLC costumes.

 

[javac]

Zelda Wii U will be the first multiplayer heavy 3D Zelda. It will be set in Hyrule, but there will be more than one mount available, and will have a dumb Monster Hunter-esque crafting system bolted on.

You forgot the Mario costume for Link, Bowser costume for Ganon and the Peach costume for Zelda. Day one Gamestop DLC. Dat next gen Zelda.

Spoiler

Also bloom.