Support NeoGAF

[Astral Dog]

Yes it is. I didn't know I was gay until I was a teenager because I didn't feel sexually attracted to anyone being a kid.

Vivi is just a kid, who doesn't really know much about anything (including himself), let alone sex.

I didn't know until i was seven

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

It feels like 343i injected a little "romance" between Cortana and Master Chief, but maybe I misinterpreted those awkward cutscenes.

"Romance" is not the word I would use. Their connection reminds me of what Big Boss and The Boss had. When he was asked, if he had feelings for her, he replied along the lines of it being deeper than that.

 

[Caronte]

I knew I was gay before I even knew what gay meant, and I was a kid.

What now.

I definitely felt things when near certain boys. Not to mention all the shirtless men you'd see in Mexican novelas.

Good for you, that doesn't mean it works the same way for everyone. In fact I know several cases like mine. Or transgenders who initially thought they were just gay. Vivi not feeling anything because he is a child is perfectly reasonable.

Your experience isn't how science works. Most people know their sexuality in their childhood

See above.

 

[Shifty]

I don't see how the line's blurry at all. Asexual and agender are two totally different things.

Uh, helpful response. Thanks.

 

[Memento]

I think Aloy from Horizon ZD could be a candidate for this topic.

She practically shrugs off multiple romantic advances and in one quest straight up says she doesn't/hasn't experienced romantic feelings (side quest Sun and Shadow).

But you can also argue it might be because of her solitary upbringing.

No.

As you said, she just dont have any experience with it. The game even outright shows us that with the sidequest you mentioned. Which doesnt mean she is assexual since

Spoiler

she is very obviously attracted by that Nora dude from the beginning and even hit on him

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Uh, helpful response. Thanks.

Gender and sexual orientation are two very different things. How can this be hard to grasp or "blurry"?

 

[Hazmat]

Vivi is a child, and also

Spoiler

not really human

. I think considering him asexual in the same way that real people are is a stretch.

 

[Death Penalty]

Good for you, that doesn't mean it works the same way for everyone. In fact I know several cases like mine. Or transgenders who initially thought they were just gay. Vivi not feeling anything because he is a child is perfectly reasonable.



See above.

I don't think this argument holds any water, because again

Spoiler

Vivi is not a child.
He's an artificial lifeform, like the rest of the black mages.

 

[Keym]

Althought there are some things that can support the theory that Vivi might be asexual... he is a 9 year old with dormant hormones. I don't think it'd be fair to judge his sexual orientation just yet.

 

[dragonlife]

Good for you, that doesn't mean it works the same way for everyone. In fact I know several cases like mine. Or transgenders who initially thought they were just gay. Vivi not feeling anything because he is a child is perfectly reasonable.



See above.

Except my reply was the same as yours just now, but to you. Your "yes it is" (how sexuality works) and then you state your anecdote like it's the only way, and everything else is wrong... what? What you said then and what you say now aren't the same, since I agree with your post just now.

 

[SomTervo]

Uh, helpful response. Thanks.

I've explained it (in layman's terms) twice in this thread now

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=249457809&postcount=99

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=249454836&postcount=38

 

[Caronte]

I don't think this argument holds any water, because again

Spoiler

Vivi is not a child.
He's an artificial lifeform, like the rest of the black mages.

He is a child in the sense that he has no idea about anything, including himself.

Spoiler

Which I bet was the reason for making him small instead of using the exact same same as all the other black mages, which in the game know more than him (the ones that aren't hostile).

 

[molnizzle]

Chris doesn't have time for this stuff.

She's just not his type. 🌈

 

[jonjonaug]

Every female playable main character =P

Counterpoint: Bioware games, otome games, Drakengard 3 (seriously) and Nier Automata, various recent indie titles, Persona 3 Portable

Might be more accurate to say "Western made AAA games without character creators"

EDIT: Remembering Horizon now and how despite how much the narrative design ripped off of Bioware games, the closest thing to "romance" you can engage in is an extremely awkward flirting scene with the Sun King after he learned that the woman he was crushing hard on died. So, maybe Aloy counts toward the OP if you avoid the option where you're receptive to that.

 

[HStallion]

Any game that stars a Shounen protag like Gon or Luffy.

 

[Death Penalty]

He is a child in the sense that he has no idea about anything, including himself.

Spoiler

Which I bet was the reason for making him small instead of using the exact same same as all the other black mages, which in the game know more than him (the ones that aren't hostile).

Spoiler

Vivi is small because he's a prototype model of black mage, not because he's a child. This is explained in game. Like all other black mages, he's presumably created fully formed and will not physically grow or mature. Though he lacks knowledge, it's incredibly unlikely he'd "learn" a sex drive, as libido is intrinsic. Vivi is also male, both in identity and physically given that one scene with Zidane.

When you consider all these things, I think the most reasonable conclusion is that Vivi is asexual. Just because

Spoiler

all black mages are probably asexual

it doesn't change that he fits the definition.

 

[Caronte]

Except my reply was the same as yours just now, but to you. Your "yes it is" (how sexuality works) and then you state your anecdote like it's the only way, and everything else is wrong... what? What you said then and what you say now aren't the same, since I agree with your post just now.

My original post was a response to purseowner saying Hippopuncher2's theory about Vivi was basically not valid because according to him "that's not how sexuality works". I said "Yes it is" is the sense of "That's how it worked for me and many others, of course it's totally possible that could be the explanation".

Apologies if I didn't explain myself correctly.

 

[yuoke]

Chris doesn't have time for this stuff.

I mean his girl is standing right there in front of them.

 

[WhateverItTakes]

This is, unfortunately, the correct answer.



Except for ^ this one, it was legitimately jarring to notice Kat actually making advances and musing over male NPCs in the game.

Controlling a female character who actually pursues her sexuality is a huge contrast. It almost never happens.

Female characters usually have tunnel vision for the player / a single character, or are essentially completely asexual.

It was super refreshing to play the first one and have Kat crushing on people

Spoiler

and failing miserably!

 

[Crossing Eden]

I mean his girl is standing right there in front of them.

Jill isn't his partner. They have a conversation in the Lost in Nightmares DLC about Chris getting close with one of their co-workers who's apparently quite young compared to Chris.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Maya from Borderlands 2 is asexual.

When are we told that? An audio log?

 

[Keym]

Spoiler

Vivi is small because he's a prototype model of black mage, not because he's a child. This is explained in game. Like all other black mages, he's presumably created fully formed and will not physically grow or mature. Though he lacks knowledge, it's incredibly unlikely he'd "learn" a sex drive, as libido is intrinsic. Vivi is also male, both in identity and physically given that one scene with Zidane.

When you consider all these things, I think the most reasonable conclusion is that Vivi is asexual. Just because

Spoiler

all black mages are probably asexual

it doesn't change that he fits the definition.

Spoiler

But if he's a prototype, then he is not like every other black mage. It's okay if that's what you think, but he doesn't act like a 40 year old like the others. He acts like a child, most likely because he was one of the first of his kind.

 

[Memento]

Counterpoint: Bioware games, otome games, Drakengard 3 (seriously) and Nier Automata, various recent indie titles, Persona 3 Portable

Might be more accurate to say "Western made AAA games without character creators"

EDIT: Remembering Horizon now and how despite how much the narrative design ripped off of Bioware games, the closest thing to "romance" you can engage in is an extremely awkward flirting scene with the Sun King after he learned that the woman he was crushing hard on died. So, maybe Aloy counts toward the OP if you avoid the option where you're receptive to that.

That is not true. As I said above Aloy is clearly attracted by

Spoiler

the Nora dude from the beginning.

And there is no option about being receptive to the King, because she is not attracted by him, so you are dreaming that.

 

[RRockman]

Cloud?

Did you miss that whole "night under the highwind thing" with tifa?

 

[Dane_gerClose]

Almost:

Yes! I'm playing Syndicate now and was pleasantly suprised by this.

 

[jonjonaug]

That is not true. As I said above Aloy is clearly attracted by

Spoiler

the Nora dude from the beginning.

And there is no option about being receptive to the King, because she is not attracted by him, so you are dreaming that.

There's a response where she's like "not right now, but maybe we can pursue this after you're done grieving and I'm done with the stuff I have to do". The other two options call him out on being weird.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Did you miss that whole "night under the highwind thing" with tifa?

I don't think they had sex.

 

[Death Penalty]

Spoiler

But if he's a prototype, then he is not like every other black mage. It's okay if that's what you think, but he doesn't act like a 40 year old like the others. He acts like a child, most likely because he was one of the first of his kind.

Spoiler

Unless you assume (with no evidence) that Vivi is different from every other black mage in that he will grow and mature physically (not just in knowledge and personality) then you can't really assume that he'll develop a sex drive. Acting like a 40 year old and acting like a child are different from physical aging, which black mages don't do. Since Vivi presumably won't mature in the same way other black mages don't, he's likely asexual.

Other black mage prototypes (the Black Waltzes) are also manufactured fully matured. It would be strange to assume Vivi is an exception when the game makes no mention of it.

I mean, black mages are manufactured, what would they need a sex drive for?

 

[Memento]

There's a response where she's like "not right now, but maybe we can pursue this after you're done grieving and I'm done with the stuff I have to do". The other two options call him out on being weird.

Really? I will have to play again I guess. I was sure there was no flirting with him.

Spoiler

With the Nora dude in the other hand, she is actually pretty direct, but HE is the one that dont want it with a speech like the one you wrote. I was like "WTF dude, you dont want me?". I got offended for reals lmao. I think you probably missed it. It was after you go back from inside the mountain out of the big gate and everyone is out there, if you talked to him there would be this conversation

 

[Memento]

Double post.

 

[Gamegeneral]

TBH this might go against your no-headcanoning rule, but I've always felt that Solid Snake was Ace. Not necessarily aromantic (Hell, he could be Bi in that regard), but I don't think he ever canonically had sex. I wonder if it's a result of who he is as a person or what was done to him/to make him.

 

[Keinning]

Persona 3 Portable

not-canon chan can be asexual, slightly lesbian, interested in one dude, interested in all dudes and even a pedophile if you play her that way

not really sure if it counts since she's a blank slate depending on player actions

 

[Keym]

Spoiler

Unless you assume (with no evidence) that Vivi is different from every other black mage in that he will grow and mature physically (not just in knowledge and personality) then you can't really assume that he'll develop a sex drive. Acting like a 40 year old and acting like a child are different from physical aging, which black mages don't do. Since Vivi presumably won't mature in the same way other black mages don't, he's likely asexual.

Other black mage prototypes (the Black Waltzes) are also manufactured fully matured. It would be strange to assume Vivi is an exception when the game makes no mention of it.

I mean, black mages are manufactured, what would they need a sex drive for?

Spoiler

See, I can agree with that last point, it makes sense. All I'm saying is that Vivi is not as mature as the other black mages, which is why I don't think it's fair to classify his sexuality on the supposition that he's as developed as the rest of them. Now, if you want to argue that he's asexual because they're all golems... yeah, I can see that. I don't remember seeing any couples in the black mage village, so it's possible.

 

[Kinsei]

When are we told that? An audio log?

in game dialog actually.

”I know almost nothing about romance, so please pretend I just said something really inspiring about the power of love."

The writer confirmed it too.

https://twitter.com/_anthonyburch/status/771034647065038848

 

[Thud]

I thought Adol Christin (Ys) might be one, as he just loves the adventures.

Then again Falcom Gakuen plays with Adol that wants to be rescued by a fair maiden, so maybe he's attracted to women after all.

He does leave all girls behind lovesick and he doesn't give a shit. New adventures await!

 

[Astral/H3X]

I see a side conversation about the rarity of women characters in games having sexual agency, and yet I'm the first person to mention Bayonetta.

smh

 

[Mufausa The 3rd]

Chris doesn't have time for this stuff.

This should have been the first post LMAO

 

[Beartruck]

I'm playing Final Fantasy IX for the first time at the moment, and something struck me about the character of Vivi.

Zidane sees Vivi looking glum and assumes it's about a girl. Vivi replies that he doesn't really think about that sort of thing, which of course baffles Zidane.

It got me thinking - what examples can we come up with of implied asexual characters in gaming?

Now obviously there'll be very few explicit examples, due to the rather lacking representation of asexuals in media in general, let alone in gaming.

(Having not played FFIX before, I have no idea if anything later in the game contradicts his inclusion in this thread of course)

And just for clarification, this isn't about headcanoning characters, it's about implied representation that could genuinely be perceived as such. I'm sure there'll be lots of Nintendo responses too, but it'd be nice if people could come up with more thoughtful ideas - I'm talking about asexual characters not genderless ones.

Referring to Vivi as asexual is very appropriate when you discover his origins.

 

[Death Penalty]

Spoiler

See, I can agree with that last point, it makes sense. All I'm saying is that Vivi is not as mature as the other black mages, which is why I don't think it's fair to classify his sexuality on the supposition that he's as developed as the rest of them. Now, if you want to argue that he's asexual because they're all golems... yeah, I can see that. I don't remember seeing any couples in the black mage village, so it's possible.

Spoiler

My argument is pretty close to that, though it's specifically that because they're "born" fully formed, Vivi is as sexually mature as he'll ever get regardless of his mental state which is based on learning more than where he is physically. He's small because he's a different model, but he's already "fully grown" like all other black mages are when they're manufactured. You don't learn to have a libido, you develop one when you reach physical maturity. He acts like a kid because he got an opportunity to be one thanks to his grandpa, but this is an upbringing thing.

And yeah, I think probably all black mages are asexual because of what they are, though because it's not directly addressed this is all implicit and up for debate.

 

[Chao]

NiGHTS is male and identifies as such. This much was confirmed by the Sega/Archie partnership in the 90s.

Jesus Christ stop using Archie as proof for anything canon.

Nights not being a he or a she is one of the first things you learn about Nights, in page number 5 of the game’s user manual no less.

 

[dragonlife]

My original post was a response to purseowner saying Hippopuncher2's theory about Vivi was basically not valid because according to him "that's not how sexuality works". I said "Yes it is" is the sense of "That's how it worked for me and many others, of course it's totally possible that could be the explanation".

Apologies if I didn't explain myself correctly.

That makes sense. No need to apologize--I quoted an incomplete conversation, it seems.

Jill isn't his partner. They have a conversation in the Lost in Nightmares DLC about Chris getting close with one of their co-workers who's apparently quite young compared to Chris.

*a scrapped conversation. It wasn't in the final build.

 

[Rutger]

I always felt Ike from Fire Emblem was asexual since he never shows romantic interest, even when others show interest in him. That stands out quite a bit since the FE series loves to let the player play matchup.

But nothing is every said for certain, and the fanbase loves to find their own conclusions. I'll take what I can get though, haha.

Every female playable main character =P

It's a shame asexuality is often treated as a convenient tool for writers that don't want to feel uncomfortable than a part of who that character is.

 

[TissueBox]

She's just not his type. 🌈

 

[Keinning]

It's a shame asexuality is often treated as a convenient tool for writers that don't want to feel uncomfortable than a part of who that character is.

I don't trust most writers to write a competent romance for any genre & sexuality, and some games REALLY don't need romance put on them (specially most of the jrpgs with teenagers or younger) so i don't find it a shame to be honest.

i liked jsawyer's honesty when asked about romance in videogames and why he disliked them/why no romance option in new vegas. pretty much sums up how i feel as well.

 

[PleaseDontBanMe]

 

[PSqueak]

It's a shame asexuality is often treated as a convenient tool for writers that don't want to feel uncomfortable than a part of who that character is.

I'll never understand why people feel,uncomfortable with the idea of playing a female character that has attraction for males (as im told this is why they usually don't let girls have love intrests if they're the main character).

Personally im playing a female dragon in Divinity Original Sin 2 and im totally rooting for her to hook up with the Red Prince.

 

[Crossing Eden]

That makes sense. No need to apologize--I quoted an incomplete conversation, it seems.

*a scrapped conversation. It wasn't in the final build.

Awh man I don't recall it being scrapped. Well that sucks. :|

I'll never understand why people feel,uncomfortable with the idea of playing a female character that has attraction for males (as im told this is why they usually don't let girls have love intrests if they're the main character).

Something something can't relate.

 

[Rutger]

I don't trust most writers to write a competent romance for any genre & sexuality, and some games REALLY don't need romance put on them (specially most of the jrpgs with teenagers or younger) so i don't find it a shame to be honest.

i liked jsawyer's honesty when asked about romance in videogames and why he disliked them/why no romance option in new vegas. pretty much sums up how i feel as well.

The shame is that asexuality is often nothing more than an afterthought. If the writer simply doesn't want romance in the story then there's nothing wrong with that, however asexuality is often added to female characters because the devs fear sales will be hurt otherwise, and that's not cool.

I'll never understand why people feel,uncomfortable with the idea of playing a female character that has attraction for males (as im told this is why they usually don't let girls have love intrests if they're the main character).

I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't really have an effect on sales, at least it didn't seem to hurt Nier Automata.

 

[Jims]

I always felt Ike from Fire Emblem was asexual since he never shows romantic interest, even when others show interest in him. That stands out quite a bit since the FE series loves to let the player play matchup.

But nothing is every said for certain, and the fanbase loves to find their own conclusions. I'll take what I can get though, haha.

Yeah, Ike is definitely an interesting case because there is a lot of hinting about general closeness (Elincia, Soren, Ranulf) but it's usually portrayed somewhat casually, at least from his end. Characters like Mia and Aimee will flirt/compete with him and Ike is more puzzled than anything. It's hard to get a reading of Mr. I-Fight-For-My-Friends is just too busy and goal oriented to have time for real romance (which makes sense), or if he just genuinely isn't into that sort of thing.

 

[Evil John Locke]

I might be mistaken, but I believe that the Salarians in Mass Effect are asexual. The fact that that's the only example that comes to mind is indicative of how far representation has to go, though.

That's just the lame-ass Salarian excuse for not being able to pull that sweet Tali tail