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[Hallowed]

I know how you feel OP. I'm a brown guy, muslim, and I can be lazy af sometimes (..okay, most of the time), and not shave. I think the more I grow out my unkempt beard, the more I look like someone whose picture you'd see put up after a terrorist attack.

I remember some years after 9/11 happened and brown people were suddenly in the spot light, I would be traveling by train to University, and sometimes I'd have a very fully bag with me that had my clothes in it. The side-eye looks I caught sometimes, when thinking about it, were hilarious. Some people would get really nervous, and I couldn't really blame them. Some times peoples imagination just go wild and they get paranoid.

Just continue being yourself, OP. You're not doing anything wrong, you're not harming anyone. They can deal with their own insecurities.

 

[starblade]

I know exactly how you feel OP. Having to deal with hundreds of these types of interactions and microagressions down here in Florida (and other places during my time in the military) it can definitely get to you.

 

[Slayven]

Taking a walk at night in some flip flops, I get stared down by groups and couples as I walk by, and they often go silent; sometimes they mention me when they think I'm not in listening distance.

I don't look mean, albeit a stocky guy and I don't have a suspicious body language.

It's as if I don't belong in some places, despite being generally a person that's first to help.

During the day it's different with the refusal to make eye contact with me and a worried body language; as if I want to take what others have.

I don't even want to go to my job because people will immediately disqualify my information and go to the nearest lighter skinned person just to be told the same thing.

It's just annoying.

I wish i could give you some tips on correcting this, but all I can do is give you tips with coping.

First it is what it is, don't ever internalize this shit as something you did. Second don't dwell on it, it will drive you insane playing "what if".

 

[FallingEdge]

As a bigger dood and a minority, I feel like I get looks and mean mugged all the time. Personally, I embrace it. I don't mind it at all.

 

[Bounceounce]

"See a doctor" is not advice given in good faith to someone who is experiencing prejudice from others. Unless you are implying that it is all a hallucination, stop gas-lighting

I believe that it is.
Prejudice won't disappear, and regardless or whether all of the sources of these slights is real or not, if they've reached the point where this constant piling on of micro-agressions his hindering your ability with the outside world, then it might be advisable to see a professional or work on establishing coping mechanisms on your own.

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging how the stress of living as a minority can lead to mental health related issues or just general changed behaviors.

 

[Escape Goat]

Because it sounds like your saying the racism he's experiencing is his head and he's imagining things when every minority has to go through this on a daily basis for their entire lives. Its just a shitty thing to say.

As a gay man it's something I've dealt with my entire life. I've faced homophobia before and I started thinking everyone was looking and talking about me. And they weren't. Not everyone felt I deserved to go to Hell. The anxiety colored my entire perception of others. OP hasn't responded but if he has felt anxious there is something he can do about it. Nowhere did I say it wasn't racism but there's nothing anybody can say that's going to end racism. I was trying to be helpful but most people in this thread either didn't take the time to read and understand my posts. But I'm through with this thread. OP, I hope you took my post with the spirit in which it was intended. If you don't have anxiety then that sounds like racism and I don't know what to say except I wish this world was a better one.

 

[ErasureAcer]

You're letting the terrorists win OP.

 

[ghostofsparta]

SF/Bay Area

this make sense. I'm a native guy and I get some creepy ass stares in the bay. For such a "liberal" area, it really doesn't make me feel welcomed. I stay in most weekends. It's depressing

Also besides you, SF proper has like 3 other black people in total (ok I kid, I haven't spend much time in the city, but it seems that way)

 

[gogosox82]

Well, I didn't interpret that as such. I really don't think that was what that person was suggesting at all.

And in fact, lots of other people here seem to be in agreement that an anxiety-disorder could develop from the treatment he's getting from strangers, so it's not really out of the realm of disbelief that that anxiety would further exacerbate the issue. And I'm speaking out of experience here, as a person with an anxiety disorder caused by abuse during childhood. Point being, I really don't see why the suggestion is out of line here.



I guess you could have interpreted his comment as such, but that's the hair-trigger response I'm talking about. I really don't see the point in assuming that that's what he meant when his comment seems to be at the very least well-meaning.

I'm sure the poster was well meaning. All people were doing was explaining that his post was a bit insensitive. Its still ok to respond to another poster on a forum and disagree with him as long as your respectful isn't?

 

[Slayven]

It's kinda hard, that as a black male you kinda of have go on a personal vision quest and find your head space for dealing with bullshit. Usually someone gives you the "Talk", and not the one about condoms

 

[excelsiorlef]

As a gay man it's something I've dealt with my entire life. I've faced homophobia before and I started thinking everyone was looking and talking about me. And they weren't. Not everyone felt I deserved to go to Hell. The anxiety colored my entire perception of others. OP hasn't responded but if he has felt anxious there is something he can do about it. Nowhere did I say it wasn't racism but there's nothing anybody can say that's going to end racism. I was trying to be helpful but most people in this thread either didn't take the time to read and understand my posts. But I'm through with this thread. OP, I hope you took my post with the spirit in which it was intended. If you don't have anxiety then that sounds like racism and I don't know what to say except I wish this world was a better one.

There is a significant difference between being gay and being black yes terms of public presentation and by that I mean everyone knows black folk are black not everyone is gonna no gay folk are gay. Thus immediately jumping to maybe it's in your head based on your experiences as a gay man isn't exactly applicable.

 

[Heckler456]

I'm sure the poster was well meaning. All people were doing was explaining that his post was a bit insensitive. Its still ok to respond to another poster on a forum and disagree with him as long as your respectful isn't?

It is. I was more talking about the three posters before the one I replied to, who just offered up sardonic replies.

There is a significant difference between being gay and being black yes in terms of public presentation.... everyone knows the OP is black.

Public signs of affection springs to mind. That seems similar. Even just walking hand-in-hand with your loved one. He's just relating, you know? Not saying they're exactly the same.

 

[Two Words]

One of the most annoying things as a black person is how people react to you when you get even slightly mad outwardly. People often act like you're going to blow up just because you have some level of frustration, even if that frustration is justified. It's like they think you're gonna turn into the Hulk or something.

 

[Bounceounce]

There is a significant difference between being gay and being black yes in terms of public presentation.... everyone knows the OP is black.

His comment is drawing a link between the two concepts, not claiming they're mirror images of each other.
It's what you do when trying to use empathy to give advice to someone in another situation or understand it.

 

[always crazy bacon]

I know how you feel OP. I'm a brown guy, muslim, and I can be lazy af sometimes (..okay, most of the time), and not shave. I think the more I grow out my unkempt beard, the more I look like someone whose picture you'd see put up after a terrorist attack.

I can relate. I live in China and when I grow my beard people here will joke I look like Bin Laden. I'm white and my beard is not long. But If I go through the border to Hong Kong I will get "randomly selected" for a bag search more often than if I don't have a beard. I have to remember to shave it off before I pass the border just to avoid the hold ups.

 

[excelsiorlef]

His comment is drawing a link between the two concepts, not claiming they're mirror images of each other.
It's what you do when trying to use empathy to give advice to someone in another situation or understand it.

But in the context of the OP they are so inherently different that they really can't be compared.

It's logical to assume in general that people are gonna know you're black just by looking at you, that cannot be said for being gay.

 

[Two Words]

As a gay man it's something I've dealt with my entire life. I've faced homophobia before and I started thinking everyone was looking and talking about me. And they weren't. Not everyone felt I deserved to go to Hell. The anxiety colored my entire perception of others. OP hasn't responded but if he has felt anxious there is something he can do about it. Nowhere did I say it wasn't racism but there's nothing anybody can say that's going to end racism. I was trying to be helpful but most people in this thread either didn't take the time to read and understand my posts. But I'm through with this thread. OP, I hope you took my post with the spirit in which it was intended. If you don't have anxiety then that sounds like racism and I don't know what to say except I wish this world was a better one.

Maybe you should stop projecting your experience with anxiety on another person with a separate issue that is quite different in terms of the public knowing he is black versus knowing you are gay.

 

[VeeP]

As a brown person I experience these micro aggressions all the time. It definitely makes me feel like I am outsider, but I am an outsider and I left my home country a few years ago. But I can't even imagine how it's like for someone to experience this since they were born. It's truly a terrible feeling to have. A white person would usually dismiss these events as being not a big deal, at least individually. Even when they recognise that it's wrong, being hit by these micro aggressions almost everyday makes an impact on the mental health of any person. Hence the OP.

One of my good friends is Sikh and wears a turban. One time we got on an elevator and we're going down. A middle aged white guy hops on and goes "Wow! You look like you just came out of the Middle East!"

My friend was literally wearing a Nike hoodie and joggers, is well groomed, but okay guy. And Indias not even in the Middle East, but ignorant people won't change.

 

[gogosox82]

As a gay man it's something I've dealt with my entire life. I've faced homophobia before and I started thinking everyone was looking and talking about me. And they weren't. Not everyone felt I deserved to go to Hell. The anxiety colored my entire perception of others. OP hasn't responded but if he has felt anxious there is something he can do about it. Nowhere did I say it wasn't racism but there's nothing anybody can say that's going to end racism. I was trying to be helpful but most people in this thread either didn't take the time to read and understand my posts. But I'm through with this thread. OP, I hope you took my post with the spirit in which it was intended. If you don't have anxiety then that sounds like racism and I don't know what to say except I wish this world was a better one.

But this is what you said:

Do you have anxiety? I used to think people were looking at me/talking about me but it was just my brain going into overdrive. Rationally, I knew they weren't but my brain reacted that way regardless.

I mean, how can that be interpreted as you saying anything else that "Are you sure its racism and not just seeing things that don't exist" which is something that every minority has heard every time they they to talk about race and racism in general. I'm sure you meant well and I'm sure you have your struggles as well being a gay man but that doesn't mean that it wasn't an insensitive thing to say.

 

[always crazy bacon]

As a gay man it's something I've dealt with my entire life. I've faced homophobia before and I started thinking everyone was looking and talking about me. And they weren't. Not everyone felt I deserved to go to Hell. The anxiety colored my entire perception of others. OP hasn't responded but if he has felt anxious there is something he can do about it. Nowhere did I say it wasn't racism but there's nothing anybody can say that's going to end racism. I was trying to be helpful but most people in this thread either didn't take the time to read and understand my posts. But I'm through with this thread. OP, I hope you took my post with the spirit in which it was intended. If you don't have anxiety then that sounds like racism and I don't know what to say except I wish this world was a better one.

I can pass you in the street and not know you are gay, but I cant pass someone in the street and not see they are black. That's the difference.

 

[Bounceounce]

But in the context of the OP they are so inherently different that they really can't be compared.

It's logical to assume in general that people are gonna know you're black just by looking at you, that cannot be said for being gay.

The idea of feeling eyes on you because you expect for eyes to be on you regardless of whether they're real or not is a universal concept, his comment was milquetoast advice that i've seen given plenty of times across race/issues.
If someone is claiming what the OP is claiming then recommending they look into how they're perceiving it will always be a valid response whether it's occurring or not, especially because it's needed to develop coping mechanisms to deal with micro-agressions.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The idea of feeling eyes on you because you expect for eyes to be on you regardless of whether they're real or not is a universal concept, his comment was milquetoast advice that i've seen given plenty of times across race/issues.
If someone is claiming what the OP is claiming then recommending they look into how they're perceiving it will always be a valid response whether it's occurring or not, especially because it's needed to develop coping mechanisms to deal with micro-agressions.

Maybe it's just in your head is not good advice.

That you see it offered a lot is actually a problem.

 

[wandering]

I kind of feel like I have the opposite anxiety as an Asian guy. I also feel like I don't belong in a lot of places, but it feels more like people see me as a weaker or someone who can be pushed around, someone not to be taken seriously.

 

[Heckler456]

Maybe it's just in your head is not good advice.

I feel like people in this thread have been explicitly making clear that this is absolutely not what they're trying to say enough times by now for you to stop claiming that that's what they're trying to say.

Every time someone is walking slower than me or at me I cut through any terrain to quickly pass then. I think you're thinking too much into it man.

Well, almost everyone.

 

[DocSeuss]

- When you've had people cross the street to avoid you
- Zip up / clutch their bags harder when you walk past
- Avoid sitting next to you on public transport (and I don't just e reluctance, I mean fill up a bunch of other seats even if it means facing the wrong way or have to get someone else to move so they can sit down)
- hide their phone / purse / cover their jewellery

...etc etc — you'll realise real quick that its not anxiety (well not on your part anyway). And you can try and ignore it all you want but you're only human — every so often it gets to you and that shit just hurts.

I've had all of this happen. I think I'm agreeing with you when I say it caused anxiety. It wasn't a side effect of having anxiety.

 

[Conor_Fool]

Few days ago I was walking on a decent sized sidewalk, there was a lady coming in the opposite direction. She decided to walk in the grass as she got closer to me and once she passed I looked back and she was back on the sidewalk. There was plenty of room for us to fit on the sidewalk.

I'm not scary looking or intimidating at all and I had bags from 7/11 in my hand. Was legit shocked. Like you'd rather walk in the dirty grass than pass beside me on the sidewalk? Daaaamn.

Every time someone is walking slower than me or at me I cut through any terrain to quickly pass then. I think you're thinking too much into it man.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I feel like people in this thread have been explicitly making clear that this is absolutely not what they're trying to say enough times by now for you to stop claiming that that's what they're trying to say.

The context of the conversation I was having was still about the very first post.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Some of the responses in this thread are goddamn revolting.

OP, I know how you feel. For me, it's been two extremes: Experiences similar to your own and then the other side where I'm a literal invisible person. Nobody acknowledges you and everyone pretends you don't exist.

I've gone into grocery stores and been in like with checkers who are ultra friendly to people ahead of me, and then clam up like they don't know how to talk until it's time to tell me the total. No eye contact, nothing.

In either case, it hurts.

I'm not sure what to say outside of try stay strong and do your best to surround yourself with people who love and care about you, in whichever way is possible for you to do that. Online, phonecalls, in person, whatever you can. Try your best not to allow yourself to get down on yourself because this fucked up world is filled with fucked up people.

 

[Heckler456]

The context of the conversation I was having was still about the very first post.

Yeah, but... He has since clarified his original comment. You can keep going in on that post, and look at it at face value, but that's a bit counterproductive I think.

 

[Bounceounce]

Maybe it's just in your head is not good advice.

That you see it offered a lot is actually a problem.

Would it be better to indulge someone without asking how they're perceiving these slights?
Especially when its weighing on their mind and leading to them wanting to stay inside.
It's not some dismissive "maybe it's all in your head", it's be introspective and depending on the results your introspection yields, act accordingly.

 

[Mesousa]

Taking a walk at night in some flip flops, I get stared down by groups and couples as I walk by, and they often go silent; sometimes they mention me when they think I'm not in listening distance.

I don't look mean, albeit a stocky guy and I don't have a suspicious body language.

It's as if I don't belong in some places, despite being generally a person that's first to help.

During the day it's different with the refusal to make eye contact with me and a worried body language; as if I want to take what others have.

I don't even want to go to my job because people will immediately disqualify my information and go to the nearest lighter skinned person just to be told the same thing.

It's just annoying.

The bold stands out to me.

You need to find black friends/black community in the area. Social isolation always leads to feelings of not belonging.

 

[Verelios]

Every time someone is walking slower than me or at me I cut through any terrain to quickly pass then. I think you're thinking too much into it man.

They were going in opposite directions (I believe, as he looked back at her) so he's not thinking too much. It was a swerve. She swerved him.

 

[Basketball]

black btw

get more confident dude
some power in your chest

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

I know exactly how you feel OP. I'm still fighting it, but it's a shitty battle.

 

[CrocMother]

thanks for sharing. I can't imagine what that must be like.

 

[M52B28]

Berkley, Oakland or SF proper?

SF proper.

 

[Two Words]

Would it be better to indulge someone without asking how they're perceiving these slights?
Especially when its weighing on their mind and leading to them wanting to stay inside.
It's not some dismissive "maybe it's all in your head", it's be introspective and depending on the results your introspection yields, act accordingly.

You don't start with a prognosis of anxiety. You ask for more details and see how those details pan out.

 

[kikiribu]

If it makes you feel any better, in my next life, I want to be Idris Elba or Michael Jordan.

Seriously though, every black friend I have instantly becomes one of my best friends. Coolest people. It sucks that you let these things get to you.

 

[shoelacer]

SF proper.

Gotcha. Seems like a weird as fuck place to be right now. You work in tech?

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Yeah, but... He has since clarified his original comment. You can keep going in on that post, and look at it at face value, but that's a bit counterproductive I think.

And like many have said, they understand that it was well meaning but the way it was worded was interpreted to be insensitive by many in this thread. So its not really counter productive to discuss why that is so. Had it been articulated better then not so much of this conversation would be about it.

Some people have said they embrace these things, some have said not not internalize it and blame themself or not to dwell on it. While others are like "I'm white and this happens to me too, whats the problem?"

If its getting to a point you dont want to leave your house because its getting to you so much and your advice is to look at the anxiety that could be contributing to it getting to this point, then there is a way to get that across without it coming off as being insensitive. And its at least worth talking about it so that next time a conversation like this happens then people can come into the conversation with a little more empathy and understanding of the situation.

 

[excelsiorlef]

If it makes you feel any better, in my next life, I want to be Idris Elba or Michael Jordan.

Seriously though, every black friend I have instantly becomes one of my best friends. Coolest people. It sucks that you let these things get to you.

Just fyi the bolded isf a dismissive thing to say about the OP's experiences and basically puts the blame for the OP's current problems on them, which when we're talking about experiences of racism is really not cool

And the rest of your post is off putting.

 

[Keri]

Earlier today I was out eating with my family. I was sitting in a booth, facing outwards because my baby was in my lap and I was waiting for my husband to get back with a high chair. As we were sitting there, a man walked past with a tray of trash and I instinctively clutched my baby. Immediately afterwards I realized that it probably looked like I was worried he'd kidnap my child or something and I may have made that poor man feel terribly. I was actually trying to pin my child's arms down, so he wouldn't swat at the tray and make a mess.

Your post reminded me of this and how I may have contributed to someone feeling similarly. So, I just want to say that I'm sorry you've had those experiences and you've been made to feel so uncomfortable in your surroundings, OP.

 

[Bounceounce]

If it makes you feel any better, in my next life, I want to be Idris Elba or Michael Jordan.

Seriously though, every black friend I have instantly becomes one of my best friends. Coolest people. It sucks that you let these things get to you.

This is actually all just very patronizing/fetishizationish and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Captin Quacker]

if I could borrow a line

Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Can't believe this is still happening. Interesting to read as a white guy. Also makes me feel sad.

 

[M52B28]

No, my mind isn't "making this up" through anxiety. I've experienced enough shit to be able to point it out when I see it. Sometimes, when I see or hear something said to me, gestured to me or about me, I question myself because I've been noticing so much of these instances, but it's not - there's just a ton of them.

So, no, there's not much wrong with me on that front despite me having some minor problems.

I guess it's safe to say that, from what I mean, is that I'm tired of trying with people. What I do most of the time now is just move in, do what I have to do and get out. I'm not going to bother opening up to someone if they never had the authentic thought of opening up to me.

Most of the time, I just feel like a statistic. Not a customer, a friend, a person, just a statistic. And that is a severe problem in the job prospects of the Bay Area, as I'm currently studying for a degree which will land me in the tech sector.

 

[Ishan]

youre in the bay area. one of the more accepting places on the planet. stop thinking and just be yourself. If you think ppl hate you youre get into more of that cycle of thinking ppl hate you... just go out be yourself meet ppl and you'll see how many ppl love you and most ppl are chill

 

[Lev]

- When you've had people cross the street to avoid you
- Zip up / clutch their bags harder when you walk past
- Avoid sitting next to you on public transport (and I don't just e reluctance, I mean fill up a bunch of other seats even if it means facing the wrong way or have to get someone else to move so they can sit down)
- hide their phone / purse / cover their jewellery

...etc etc — you'll realise real quick that its not anxiety (well not on your part anyway). And you can try and ignore it all you want but you're only human — every so often it gets to you and that shit just hurts.

That's why I hated walking on the campus of the university I used to go to. This bullshit would happen nearly on a daily basis to me, and even inside buildings too. I tried to ignore but I just got tired of that shit.

 

[TheVampire]

What if you dress fancy in a suit and tie?

 

[formasymphonic]

I've had all of this happen. I think I'm agreeing with you when I say it caused anxiety. It wasn't a side effect of having anxiety.

Yeh - to clarify what I meant:

I meant that it's not anxiety on OP's part, it's that age old social anxiety - fear of black people™. I've had all of those thing happen to me and more, frequently in broad daylight and even travelling to and from work (even in uniform) and I'm by no means a particularly huge or threatening guy in any context. (I'm not tall by any means and could do with spending more time at the gym).

While I don't want to discredit that these things happen to other guys in certain situations - when they happen to you frequently regardless of time or place or how you carry yourself and the only consistent thing is that they took one look at you as a black guy, you know what the trigger is.

My original point was that this isn't a thing the other posters shouldn't assume is in Op's mind - People treat you differently when you're black. The colour of your skin sets off a response in a lot of people - It's a legit thing that happens that you can only really understand that when you've been through it for yourself. The earlier posters may have had some good intentions behind the "maybe you have another problem, it might be worth speaking to a professional" sentiment, but they kind of skipped over the fact that the social prejudice is a real thing and yeh that's what I was getting at.