Support NeoGAF

[Nirolak]

When did development on this game begin?

Levine has been mum for a while now.

Right after BioShock 1 shipped to my knowledge.

 

[Shurs]

oh no people are assuming a poorly-written magazine will continue to be poorly-written in the future

Do you even read Game Informer, or are you just playing armchair games journalist?

 

[charlequin]

Do you even read Game Informer, or are you just playing armchair games journalist?

Do you want me to post pictures? I read the Batman issue on the can yesterday, give me a fucking break.

 

[Shurs]

Do you want me to post pictures? I read the Batman issue on the can yesterday, give me a fucking break.

I guess I'm wondering what magazines you're comparing Game Informer to when you say that it is a "poorly-written" publication? Could you give me an example or two of why you think it is so bad?

I also find it odd that people don't want "PR pieces" when it comes to gaming articles, yet when given the chance to see something so early and out of the promotional cycle, they cry "too early." If this cover story mentions parts of the game that don't make it into the final version, I think that would actually be pretty interesting.

 

[brandonh83]

Great stuff, but good god, way too early. Just like the reveal. Should have waited until at least early next year or something. When you announce something this far ahead, it will always have extremely grand expectations to live up to.

 

[Jakabok]

Yawn another Giger ripoff bananahead creature design. Rest looks spiffing though!

 

[charlequin]

I guess I'm wondering what magazines you're comparing Game Informer to when you say that it is a "poorly-written" publication?

I dunno, Harper's? Or, to pick an on-topic magazine, Game Developer?

I also find it odd that people don't want "PR pieces" when it comes to gaming articles, yet when given the chance to see something so early and out of the promotional cycle, they cry "too early."

Let me put it this way: I'd love to get access to an early-development glimpse of the real, in-flux state of a major game like Bioshock Infinite made by an awesome, talented team like Irrational, with all kinds of interesting material about the types of decisions they're making with all the how and why. What I don't want is a repeat of the Game Informer Bioshock 2 cover story that's full of boosterism about a bunch of features, plot points, and design elements that ultimately don't make it to the final game (or do so in very different form) with no continuity or explanation as to why.

Ultimately, the way secrecy currently works in this industry, these kinds of nitty-gritty development details aren't generally things companies are willing to have public before the game's out. That means the place to really dig into this stuff isn't in previews but in post-mortems.

I dunno, though, maybe they'll surprise me. I'm already a subscriber so it's not like I won't read the issue, I just don't expect much.

 

[Shadowhaxor]

These covers are gorgeous, but they should have held off on releasing them until late next year. :lol

Nah, those are art pieces. I'm gonna hunt them all down and frame them

 

[.la1n]

These covers are great and all, but why are we even hearing about this game now when it's not going to be released until approximately 37,596 forfuckingevers from now? If the game's not out until 2012, large swathes of what they reveal in this magazine probably won't even be true by the time it's actually out.

Yeah really this gen has been rediculous with the site countdowns and reveals two years in advance. Just announce shit when I know I will be buying it in the near future otherwise I do not care.

 

[Shurs]

I dunno, Harper's? Or, to pick an on-topic magazine, Game Developer?



Let me put it this way: I'd love to get access to an early-development glimpse of the real, in-flux state of a major game like Bioshock Infinite made by an awesome, talented team like Irrational, with all kinds of interesting material about the types of decisions they're making with all the how and why. What I don't want is a repeat of the Game Informer Bioshock 2 cover story that's full of boosterism about a bunch of features, plot points, and design elements that ultimately don't make it to the final game (or do so in very different form) with no continuity or explanation as to why.

Ultimately, the way secrecy currently works in this industry, these kinds of nitty-gritty development details aren't generally things companies are willing to have public before the game's out. That means the place to really dig into this stuff isn't in previews but in post-mortems.

I dunno, though, maybe they'll surprise me. I'm already a subscriber so it's not like I won't read the issue, I just don't expect much.

Harper's? Are you serious? Why not compare it to The New Yorker while you're at it? You are comparing apples to Chevy Malibus. Game Informer has to cater to a much broader audience than Game Developer. Game Informer's peers are GamePro, EGM, the "Official" mags. I feel your comparisons are off-base and unfair.

Again, I find it interesting to retrospectively go back and look at something like the Bioshock 2 coverage, wherein they detail things that, ultimately, didn't make it into the game. I think it's an interesting glimpse into the process of birthing a game, and I'm grateful for it.

 

[charlequin]

Game Informer's peers are GamePro, EGM, the "Official" mags. I feel your comparisons are off-base and unfair.

I don't buy magazines based on whether they're better than the immediate competition, I buy them based on whether I'd actually want to read them. If I didn't get Game Informer foisted on me for buying an Edge Card I would never pay to subscribe to it in its current state. But because it's got a captive subscriber base from Edge Card purchases, it's guaranteed a 4 million member readership -- eighth highest of any magazine in the US -- when most gaming magazines can't pull one-tenth that.

After a lot of past criticism they've channeled some of the revenue from that subscriber base into revitalizing their visual appearance and done a fantastic job of it, to the point where every issue is gorgeous to look at, but the actual printed words inside haven't been improved to match. I don't see any reason they can't mix the screenshot-heavy previews and ridiculous lists with actual, in-depth content that makes valuable use of that huge circulation number, so as long as they don't I'm not going to speak too highly of their written content.

 

[disappeared]

I... I can't... choose. They're all so amazing.

 

[catotheyounger]

Covers look great. The more 2K markets Infinite this early, the more and more of a chance they are going to follow up with a multiplayer beta packaged with their XCOM release.

 

[Draft]

Game Informer's peers are GamePro

Yikes. The most brutal burn ITT.

 

[Thomper]

Yikes. The most brutal burn ITT.

Really? 'Cause modern/redesigned-by-John-Davison GamePro is actually really good.

 

[disappeared]

Great stuff, but good god, way too early. Just like the reveal. Should have waited until at least early next year or something. When you announce something this far ahead, it will always have extremely grand expectations to live up to.

Apples and oranges. The difference is that Infinite is being handled by a competent team of developers.

 

[Shurs]

I don't buy magazines based on whether they're better than the immediate competition, I buy them based on whether I'd actually want to read them. If I didn't get Game Informer foisted on me for buying an Edge Card I would never pay to subscribe to it in its current state. But because it's got a captive subscriber base from Edge Card purchases, it's guaranteed a 4 million member readership -- eighth highest of any magazine in the US -- when most gaming magazines can't pull one-tenth that.

After a lot of past criticism they've channeled some of the revenue from that subscriber base into revitalizing their visual appearance and done a fantastic job of it, to the point where every issue is gorgeous to look at, but the actual printed words inside haven't been improved to match. I don't see any reason they can't mix the screenshot-heavy previews and ridiculous lists with actual, in-depth content that makes valuable use of that huge circulation number, so as long as they don't I'm not going to speak too highly of their written content.

Each month there is one page dedicated to a top ten list. Screenshot heavy previews? Do you read any other gaming magazines besides Game Developer? They all have screenshot heavy previews.

You've yet to provide anything other than sweeping generalizations about what Game Informer does so poorly, or how they are any worse than any other game magazine with a broad reader base.

Do you come into every game magazine thread to drop a deuce on the quality of their content, or do you just save your ire for Game Informer?

 

[Salsa]

This is a totally different style though, anyone should be able to see that.

Yeah it is, im just kidding.

I mean i still think the inspiration comes from there, certainly black isle did this kinda thing first, but i have no trouble with it.

 

[charlequin]

You've yet to provide anything other than sweeping generalizations about what Game Informer does so poorly, or how they are any worse than any other game magazine with a broad reader base.

1. There is no other gaming magazine with a broad reader base, and
2. The entirety of my complaint with GI is that they fail to rise above the extraordinarily poor standard set by other gaming magazines.
   
   

   Do you come into every game magazine thread to drop a deuce on the quality of their content, or do you just save your ire for Game Informer?

   
   I came into this thread to question Irrational's weird decision to make an ultra-early promotional push for this game and to say I liked the covers, but I'm not going to pretend the magazine is good when someone gets all surprised that people are assuming future issues will be of similar quality to previous ones.

 

[Shurs]

charlequin,

I think I'll just leave it alone. There's really no point in continuing with this. You're punishing the magazine due to its success.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'll let Andy know you dig his picture in the front.

I'm totally into the cock so make sure there's a cock.

 

[Shurs]

I'm totally into the cock so make sure there's a cock.

Hey, Rez, as an Australian, do have access to Game Informer magazine?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

one of the few that's widely available in most newsagents. I struggle to find GamePro or Edge, for instance.

 

[V_Ben]

I honestly have no idea as to what's going on in this thread anymore.

 

[Stumpokapow]

charlequin,

I think I'll just leave it alone. There's really no point in continuing with this. You're punishing the magazine due to its success.

That's not really fair. Someone could easily point out that Dan Brown writes cheap pulp novels and you'd just respond "Yeah, but he sells ten million copies, and he wouldn't if he wrote engaging literature" and you'd be right but that doesn't take away from the strength of the original criticism.

Game Informer is a magazine that people generally subscribe to because of the EDGE card. Once they subscribe, Game Informer is a well-designed magazine that gets an unbelievable amount of exclusive reveals and thus provides great content. No one is going to deny either of those two things. But that doesn't make it well written, and it doesn't mean people can't complain about the analytical depth or writing quality of the magazine.

(I tried to subscribe to Game Informer but it costs about $70/year in Canada)

 

[Shurs]

That's not really fair. Someone could easily point out that Dan Brown writes cheap pulp novels and you'd just respond "Yeah, but he sells ten million copies, and he wouldn't if he wrote engaging literature" and you'd be right but that doesn't take away from the strength of the original criticism.

Game Informer is a magazine that people generally subscribe to because of the EDGE card. Once they subscribe, Game Informer is a well-designed magazine that gets an unbelievable amount of exclusive reveals and thus provides great content. No one is going to deny either of those two things. But that doesn't make it well written, and it doesn't mean people can't complain about the analytical depth or writing quality of the magazine.

(I tried to subscribe to Game Informer but it costs about $70/year in Canada)

His argument comes down to saying that because it has the largest circulation and distribution through Gamestop that they should be better than any other magazine on the market. He's provided no legitimate examples of how the magazine is poorly written, yet he's quick to say that it is. I don't see the point in going back and forth with him anymore. And, to be honest, I'm a bit intimidated about going back and forth with a Mod in this manner.

My point is that Game Informer has to play to the people in the cheap seats as well as those in the lower bowl. They are no worse than their peers, yet they get shit on the most. I think it's a bit unfair to the writers when people use, often inaccurate, blanket statements when describing the content in the magazine.

 

[(._.)]

AHHH Yes My mind is blown. Incredibly bold design for a modern magazine cover. Really like what they have going. Isn't this game made by the original team? Defiantly looking forward to this game. My subscription to GI just ran out so I may have to pick this up at a news stand.

 

[zero margin]

Awesome. GI is stepping their game up.

 

[ElFly]

Goddamnit people, hyping a game two years away is just cruel.

I am liking Nintendo's strategy of announcing games a couple of months before release more and more.

 

[Stumpokapow]

His argument comes down to saying that because it has the largest circulation and distribution through Gamestop that they should be better than any other magazine on the market. He's provided no legitimate examples of how the magazine is poorly written, yet he's quick to say that it is. I don't see the point in going back and forth with him anymore. And, to be honest, I'm a bit intimidated about going back and forth with a Mod in this manner.

Moderators don't punish people for disagreeing. charlequin certainly wouldn't, he's a pretty level-headed dude. Argue all you want. Most moderators would actually recuse themselves from disciplining someone they're directly arguing even if that person way overstepped the line.

I basically feel that Game Informer largely does publisher-supporter surface level coverage of content. This is good because the magazine is by far and away the most connected outlet in web or print or games. It's bad because it ends up being less deep than it could be. The BioShock 2 expose is an excellent example of publisher's lips -> GI's pages, and it's so obvious because virtually none of what's in that piece ended up being in the final game.

Now, one thing I will say is that GI is inordinarily better than truly wretched outlets like GamesRadar that publish nothing but "give me hits" shitty list articles. GI's offence to me isn't that it's terrible, it's that it's not particularly good.

I wouldn't say the actual level of diction is any worse than any other outlet. I've never noticed particularly poorly written stuff technically. It's moreso that the coverage is pretty shallow.

My point is that Game Informer has to play to the people in the cheap seats as well as those in the lower bowl. They are no worse than their peers, yet they get shit on the most. I think it's a bit unfair to the writers when people use, often inaccurate, blanket statements when describing the content in the magazine.

Like I said, I don't think "our audience is functionally handicapped" is a great excuse for anything. Consider something like Life & Style magazine or Weekly World News (or Glenn Beck or Alex Jones or...), who undoubtedly do a good job of appealing to their audience but a terrible job at producing interesting, compelling, well-written, well-researched content. Obviously GI is streets ahead of those two, but just to consider the general principle of if satisfying an audience means you're exempt from criticism about your quality.

This is an unfortunate impasse because I agree with you that GI probably gets more shit than it deserves, but they do deserve some of the shit they get, and I don't think this thread is unduly mean. Especially considering BioShock 2 and the huge gap between this story and BioShock Infinity's release, I don't think the trajectory of this thread is surprising.

 

[T-Matt]

I really love the second and third one.

 

[Skilotonn]

Damn I love BioShock art.

Damn.

 

[-PXG-]

I said holy fucking shit.

 

[Shurs]

Moderators don't punish people for disagreeing. charlequin certainly wouldn't, he's a pretty level-headed dude. Argue all you want. Most moderators would actually recuse themselves from disciplining someone they're directly arguing even if that person way overstepped the line.

I basically feel that Game Informer largely does publisher-supporter surface level coverage of content. This is good because the magazine is by far and away the most connected outlet in web or print or games. It's bad because it ends up being less deep than it could be. The BioShock 2 expose is an excellent example of publisher's lips -> GI's pages, and it's so obvious because virtually none of what's in that piece ended up being in the final game.

Now, one thing I will say is that GI is inordinarily better than truly wretched outlets like GamesRadar that publish nothing but "give me hits" shitty list articles. GI's offence to me isn't that it's terrible, it's that it's not particularly good.

I wouldn't say the actual level of diction is any worse than any other outlet. I've never noticed particularly poorly written stuff technically. It's moreso that the coverage is pretty shallow.



Like I said, I don't think "our audience is functionally handicapped" is a great excuse for anything. Consider something like Life & Style magazine or Weekly World News (or Glenn Beck or Alex Jones or...), who undoubtedly do a good job of appealing to their audience but a terrible job at producing interesting, compelling, well-written, well-researched content. Obviously GI is streets ahead of those two, but just to consider the general principle of if satisfying an audience means you're exempt from criticism about your quality.

This is an unfortunate impasse because I agree with you that GI probably gets more shit than it deserves, but they do deserve some of the shit they get, and I don't think this thread is unduly mean. Especially considering BioShock 2 and the huge gap between this story and BioShock Infinity's release, I don't think the trajectory of this thread is surprising.

I'm happy the Bioshock 2 article was written, looking back on it from today's perspective, it provides an interesting window into what the game aimed to be at one point in time. I find it stuff like that very interesting. It's why I keep game magazines far after the games they cover have been released. I don't see how the article could be interpreted as a blight on Game Informer's reputation. I also don't begrudge them the opportunity to provide the first details of one of the most highly anticipated games of the coming years.

I don't think that Game Informer is beyond criticism, but I also don't think it was fair of charlequin to compare the magazine to Harper's and Game Developer. I'd love to see mainstream games journalism and criticism improve. I'd love to see Game Informer do better, I just don't happen to think that they are doing anything that warrants the level of criticism they seem to attract.

 

[Mar]

Nah, those are art pieces. I'm gonna hunt them all down and frame them

 

[TheKaeptain]

And Game Informer continues to have the best covers.

They look great. Can't wait to get my copy this month.

 

[Gawny]

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

I'm glad Infinite has amazing art design cause these graphics certainly won't be able to complete with anything in two years.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

can't say I'm fan of the character design shown so far

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Game looks amazing.

 

[Y2Kev]

World of Warcraft?

 

[Zeliard]

The Handyman does seem a bit visually over-designed. I'm assuming things will change between now and 2012, though.

charlequin,

I think I'll just leave it alone. There's really no point in continuing with this. You're punishing the magazine due to its success.

Game Informer is an okay magazine but its function is to pander to the typical non-discerning Gamestop shopper. A magazine will only be as good as its clientèle.

 

[Vinterbird]

I'm glad Infinite has amazing art design cause these graphics certainly won't be able to complete with anything in two years.

It looks way more impressive in motion.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

THEY'LL TAKE OUR BUSINESS

seems a little overt

it might seem picky, but when this is all we have to look at and we're without a gameplay video, this is all I have to talk about.

 

[StuBurns]

I don't like the look of the handyman things at all, and I'm worried we're going to get some sort of I, Robot style story to go with them. I wonder why they have ice sellers.

 

[∀ Narayan]

I like how someone is just casually sweeping the deck of that burning building.

I'm glad Infinite has amazing art design cause these graphics certainly won't be able to complete with anything in two years.

It's like Bioshock 1. Technically, it isn't a very glamorous game, but its art still shines. I replayed it a couple weeks ago and was still impressed. Gameplay is very bland though. If there's anything that Bioshock 2 improved over the original, it's definitely the gameplay.

 

[brandonh83]

I don't like the look of the handyman things at all, and I'm worried we're going to get some sort of I, Robot style story to go with them.

I didn't at first but the design quickly grew on me. Something about it is just very... strange, and I like strange.

 

[Neiteio]

Whoa! Fu-fu-fu-full pic, p-please!

 

[Amir0x]

I don't buy magazines based on whether they're better than the immediate competition, I buy them based on whether I'd actually want to read them. If I didn't get Game Informer foisted on me for buying an Edge Card I would never pay to subscribe to it in its current state. But because it's got a captive subscriber base from Edge Card purchases, it's guaranteed a 4 million member readership -- eighth highest of any magazine in the US -- when most gaming magazines can't pull one-tenth that.

After a lot of past criticism they've channeled some of the revenue from that subscriber base into revitalizing their visual appearance and done a fantastic job of it, to the point where every issue is gorgeous to look at, but the actual printed words inside haven't been improved to match. I don't see any reason they can't mix the screenshot-heavy previews and ridiculous lists with actual, in-depth content that makes valuable use of that huge circulation number, so as long as they don't I'm not going to speak too highly of their written content.

IAWTP.

people wonder why game "journalism" is in the sad state it is in...

 

[Shurs]

I didn't at first but the design quickly grew on me. Something about it is just very... strange, and I like strange.

If you haven't, you should check out Zeno Clash.