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[dfyb]

That's the thing, though. This is visual evidence. All the "graphical edge" that's been given is subjective. Some people might prefer 360's look, some people might think the more impressive explosions make the game feel more visceral. At this point each version has enough going for it that, as Cowboy Astronaut stated so very long ago, each person can really and truly and comfortably come to their own conclusion about which they prefer.

i wouldn't say it's entirely subjective. while the 360 version may be a tad sharper, the dithering sort of "scrambles" the 360's picture. ps3's version may have more blur, but it still manages to preserve details better than the 360 version.

from:
360
http://upload.dfyb.net/uploaded_raket/360bowling.png

ps3
http://upload.dfyb.net/uploaded_raket/triplebowling.png

360

ps3

360

ps3

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

i wouldn't say it's entirely subjective. while the 360 version may be a tad sharper, the dithering sort of "scrambles" the 360's picture. ps3's version may have more blur, but it still manages to preserve details better than the 360 version.

Sorry, but comparing the games at that level, a resolution and magnification you will NEVER see while naturally playing the game, is a completely subjective decision.

They have no concrete bearing on a normal person sitting on their couch playing the game. Each individual can honestly look at the video picture in front of them and choose which one they prefer.

That "scrambling" won't cause any serious concrete interference in the 360's picture. It's just a different overall effect. There's nothing missing in the 360 version.

It's all just slight differences in presentation.

Naturally, the two consoles do have completely different methods of executing effects, which leads to very different explosions. In that respect, the PS3 is naturally the stronger version.

But overall, visually, there is no "advantage" when it comes to the final picture on a regular tv set. Only differences that some could subjectively prefer over the other.

I don't see why there's anything wrong with that.

 

[DeadGzuz]

That "scrambling" won't cause any serious concrete interference in the 360's picture. It's just a different overall effect. There's nothing missing in the 360 version.

It's all just slight differences in presentation.

It's not just a different look, it is a rendering artifact/bug. It scrambles textures, some of which are text. If you like it fine, but why rag on the PS3 version for aliasing and give the 360 a pass for dithering.

Here is an ongoing technical discussion:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=47872&page=4

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Sorry, but comparing the games at that level, a resolution and magnification you will NEVER see while naturally playing the game, is a completely subjective decision.

They have no concrete bearing on a normal person sitting on their couch playing the game.

I'd have to disagree here. Those shots are only very small portions of the screen, if you multiply that 2-3% of screen to 100% there will be a substantial and noticeable difference.

 

[dfyb]

Sorry, but comparing the games at that level, a resolution and magnification you will NEVER see while naturally playing the game, is a completely subjective decision.

They have no concrete bearing on a normal person sitting on their couch playing the game. Each individual can honestly look at the video picture in front of them and choose which one they prefer.

That "scrambling" won't cause any serious concrete interference in the 360's picture. It's just a different overall effect. There's nothing missing in the 360 version.

It's all just slight differences in presentation.

it's easy to see the differences in the screenshots at normal size... ps3 version is easy to read while the 360 version has a weird fuzzy effect in the center of the burger text. the wire rack in the back (like the one in the close ups, but the one farther back and infront of the green neon sign) is clearly descernable in the ps3 shot but the 360 shot makes it look almost like it is disintegrating.

slight difference, yes. but not necessarily 100% subjective. i'm not denying the possibility to prefer the 360 version's visuals, but i think there are definitely measurable advantages to how the ps3 version looks.

Naturally, the two consoles do have completely different methods of executing effects, which leads to very different explosions. In that respect, the PS3 is naturally the stronger version.

But overall, visually, there is no "advantage" when it comes to the final picture on a regular tv set. Only differences that some could subjectively prefer over the other.

I don't see why there's anything wrong with that.

to me it looks like ps3 explosions are actually doing more work -- lighting up more (and better) smoke and shooting off more debris. hard to tell without having 100% identical explosions to compare though.

 

[LowParry]

Playing the first hour of both PS3 and 360 versions was fun. I actually like the 360 with the sharpness on screen, than the soft look effect. Both look great regardless. 360 version for me though because my friends list is much bigger than my PS3 counterpart of a list. Fun times ahead!

 

[bishoptl]

It's not just a different look, it is a rendering artifact/bug.

This. I've stayed out of the general thread discussion on purpose, but I can't let that slide, BB.

 

[JRW]

Ive been playing through 360's version but I watched my bro play PS3's version for awhile last night and must admit the softer image, lighting & color differences make it seem more natural, 360's is so sharp it looks more PC'ish (did that make sense?)
360's runs a bit smoother overall but I wouldn't mind playing through either version. It's a great game regardless of the system its played on.

 

[rollingstart]

I dunno, did you watch the helicopter comparisons in that video? The GetALife building spontaneously disappears/reappears in the PS3 version. I know it's just one example, but it makes me wonder if the issue is as cut-and-dry as reviewers made it seem.

I flew past that building several times in night and day and nothing like that ever happend to me.

 

[65536]

.

 

[Raistlin]

Very nice comparison video there, if anyone after watching that says there is either version is ultimately superior/inferior then they are fucking crazy seriously, they look practically identical, I personally like the the smoother filtered look of the PS3 version, do I think it's better than the 360 version, nope, I know other people will prefer the cleaner look of the 360 one, I'm afraid which ever way you look at this time it comes down to likes and dislikes, no one version is ultimately better than the other, there is no winner here.

/thread tbh.

No offense, but why are people that actually own both versions seeing more of a difference then?

 

[Raistlin]

i've only put a few hours into the game but where does this supposed terrible framerate come into play? it certainly runs ok as far as gta/open world type games go imo.

Drive fast.

 

[kbear]

For what it's worth, I've had no pop-in / pop-up issues whatsoever with the game (360).

Drive fast.

There is no terrible framerate. It's very solid... no problems with the 360 version.

99% of people don't notice a minor framerate hitch here and there.

 

[65536]

.

 

[Beer Monkey]

The graphics are close enough that sane people will buy for other reasons (which version their friends bought, which controller do they prefer, do they give a fuck about episodic content). 99% of gamers aren't hair splitters.

 

[kbear]

Gametrailers comparison: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33469.html

Wow.. that was fantastic, like professional editing. The 360 version looks sharper and more crisp for sure.

 

[PapiShasho]

Oh wow is this that big of a deal? I have the 360 version and it looks good and I'm having a blast with the game. That's all that should matter.

 

[inertiatic]

Aside from technicalities, both versions look extremely alike.

The PS3 version has a great looking filter over everything, which gives it a great overall look.

The 360 version seems a bit sharper, less aliased and smoother.


This is what I gathered from the Gametrailers video. Everyone wins, I guess.

 

[Raistlin]

Sorry, but comparing the games at that level, a resolution and magnification you will NEVER see while naturally playing the game, is a completely subjective decision.

Look at the full size pics ... it is readily apparent.

They have no concrete bearing on a normal person sitting on their couch playing the game. Each individual can honestly look at the video picture in front of them and choose which one they prefer.

Certainly

That "scrambling" won't cause any serious concrete interference in the 360's picture. It's just a different overall effect. There's nothing missing in the 360 version.

As far as it being a purposeful effect, it is likely the opposite. Its an effect on both versions, that is lower in precision on the 360 rev, or has some sort of error in it.

Is it serious? In the grand scheme of things, no. However, it is readily apparent, moreso in motion.

It's all just slight differences in presentation.

I personally haven't A/B'd them, so I can't comment on just how big it is to me personally. Most people that have compared, definitly find the difference noticeable. Both have some pros and cons, so which presentation one prefers certainly is subjective.

Naturally, the two consoles do have completely different methods of executing effects, which leads to very different explosions. In that respect, the PS3 is naturally the stronger version.

CELL ftw

But overall, visually, there is no "advantage" when it comes to the final picture on a regular tv set. Only differences that some could subjectively prefer over the other.

I don't see why there's anything wrong with that.

Well, I suppose its subjective, based on how you weight the differences personally. That doesn't mean the debating what the differences are isn't ... interesting

 

[BobsRevenge]

I've played this game on my PS3 and watched a roommate play it on the same TV on his 360.

My comments on this:
360 has less framerate problems, but this is only noticable when driving really fast and for big explosions
360 has better motion blur when driving fast (its considerable)
360 looks sharper
PS3 has better colors and feels warmer
PS3 has weird muddy aliasing while 360 has barely there anti-aliasing, can be hard to tell the difference

I didn't realise this until I saw the gametrailers video, but I knew something was weird when the 360 really got the action going. The explosions really are more impressive in the PS3 version. The 360's feel light. I think the PS3 experiences slowdown slightly when the explosions happen, but it kinda just makes it feel more epic instead of taking away from the game.

So basically I really can't add much to the discussion. My overall experience is that the 360 feels more clinical and gamey while the PS3 feels warm and cinematic.

Excuse my bias, but I only own PS3. Tried to look at this objectively but some probably snuck its way in.

edit: Also, not sure if anyone else felt this... but I never realised how much I intuitively felt that GTA was a Playstation series. When I saw my roommate playing it with his 360 controller it looked awkward to me.

 

[lowrider007]

No offense, but why are people that actually own both versions seeing more of a difference then?

where in my post did I say that they was identical ?, I said that they are practically the same, which they are tbh, I've played both versions myself and they are really similar, I'm just glad that a decent video comparison is out so that others can see that is the case, yes there are differences but they are minuscule and also they are subjective, the differences come down to personal preference rather than either version being superior or inferior, anyone that owns both version and theres there is a world of difference between the two versions is smoking crack tbh.

 

[AgentOtaku]

edit: Also, not sure if anyone else felt this... but I never realised how much I intuitively felt that GTA was a Playstation series. When I saw my roommate playing it with his 360 controller it looked awkward to me.

Thanks for the comments Bob and yeah, it's still very much embedded with alot people as a Playstation franchise ....shit when I was playing it on my PS3...you did indeed get that "welcome home" feeling

 

[Raistlin]

Generally these videos/screens are captured via component, which means that they're capturing 4:2:2 colour resolution instead of the 4:4:4 RGB that most people will see on their TV screen. (HDMI/VGA) Usually with these component capture cards you don't get nearly as sharp an image as you would connecting it up to a TV either. Then you also have MPEG compression, which is usually at quite low bitrates for download – it's very far from what you see on-screen.

This whole process softens the image, so the 360 one looks a lot softer than it actually does, which makes the difference seem smaller.

The only way to do a proper comparison would be to have two CRT monitors side-by-side (I don't know anything else that's 720p native) running each version of the game, or to have lossless screenshots – either from a HDMI capture card that can capture 4:4:4 (you would need a HDCP stripper hooked up to the PS3) or from devkits.

Very good points regarding the capturing process!


As far as native 720 displays, yeah you won't see it in flat panels (I believe there may be a few Plasma models that came out iirc, but it was an insignificant amount if there were any). Basically for CRT, its only monitors for direct-view, and front-projectors. There are also native 720p DLP and LCoS, and there may be a few rear-projection LCDs iirc.

Since most people don't have those however, its still useful to compare on other displays, since that's ultimately what people will see in-home.

where in my post did I say that they was identical ?, I said that they are practically the same, which they are tbh, I've played both versions myself and they are really similar, I'm just glad that a decent video comparison is out so that others can see that is the case, yes there are differences but they are minuscule and also they are subjective, the differences come down to personal preference rather than either version being superior or inferior, anyone that owns both version and theres there is a world of difference between the two versions is smoking crack tbh.

I didn't intend to misrepresent your statement.

That said (in part, because of the above), what you'll see on a non-720p display is going to differ a bit, depending on the display type involved and the processing.

There are people here that have compared the two, and found the difference to be quite noticeable. Your mileage will vary.

 

[HokieJoe]

O.O

ps3 is great doing that stuff. look at Stardust with it's millions of particles flying around

I agree the PS3 version looks better here. I wouldn't make too many architectural generalizations though (just game limitations). Lost Planet's explosion's are godly, and are an example of explosions done right on the 360. Never played the PS3 version of LP so I'd guess they're similarly awesome.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

This. I've stayed out of the general thread discussion on purpose, but I can't let that slide, BB.

Fair enough, but honestly, I don't really think it's creating such a vastly different visual experience.

And this:

why rag on the PS3 version for aliasing and give the 360 a pass for dithering.

Is a gross fabrication of anything resembling my posts on this matter. I never ragged on the PS3 version nor did I give the 360 a pass.

I fully admit I have no frame reference when it comes to the intricacies of the graphics engines or dithering or any of that. I honestly felt the evidence in the GT video made it clear that, explosions aside, both versions had strengths and weaknesses, and that any owner of any version would be happy with their decision.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Drive fast.

The framerate might not be ab.fab. but when you drive fast, you feel like you're driving fast.
For the record, you should have said: Drive into lots picnic tables and benches.

 

[Ken Masters]

After reading this entire thread the 360 definitely looks sharper with less jaggies then the PS3 version. But at the same time I do like that "warm" color to the ps3 version, but the blurriness does bother me a little bit. Framerate and pop in seems identical on both, which is dissapointing seeing how the PS3 version has an HD install



I bought the ps3 version (still unopened) now I'm leaning towards getting the 360 version, but I just wish I knew what the DLC was (just more missions or entire new areas to explore)

 

[Dead Prince]

After reading this entire thread the 360 definitely looks sharper with less jaggies then the PS3 version. But at the same time I do like that "warm" color to the ps3 version, but the blurriness does bother me a little bit. Framerate and pop in seems identical on both, which is dissapointing seeing how the PS3 version has an HD install



I bought the ps3 version (still unopened) now I'm leaning towards getting the 360 version, but I just wish I knew what the DLC was (just more missions or entire new areas to explore)

play ps3 version. beat it completely. sell it back and buy 360 version when the price drops or at least buy used.

 

[GreekWolf]

I just wish I knew what the DLC was (just more missions or entire new areas to explore)

At roughly 25 million per episode, I'd imagine the DLC will be considerably more substantial than a few po-dunk missions. I mean, heck, Gears of War was made for less money.

 

[Raistlin]

The framerate might not be ab.fab. but when you drive fast, you feel like you're driving fast.
For the record, you should have said: Drive into lots picnic tables and benches.

Yeah, you're right. Drive into some stuff that causes lots of physics.

 

[bobbytkc]

Just watched the gametrailers video. The video was really good, and everything was lined up nearly perfectly for comparison. Planning to get the game at the end of the year, but I was pretty surprised at how close the two were considering the amount of argument over it.

Some comments:

Yep, the 360 version is definitely sharper, but this appears to be at the expense of lighting and shadows, which are also obviously different between the 2. PS3 definitely softer image, but it is quite pleasant, I must say.

Framerate appear slightly smoother on 360 during faster driving, but practically no difference in all other cases.

Pop in also noticeable in both versions. Geometry pop in appears to be more or less the same, but texture and shadow map pop ins are readily more apparent on the 360 version. Shadows of PS3 version appear more detailed, especially when they drive underneath the rail tracks.

Aliasing also appears to be the same, though pixel counters say the PS3 version has no AA. But I trust my eyes, not specs. Whatever filter effect they have on the PS3 makes the jagginess less obvious though. This is most apparent about a minute and a half into the video, during the driving scene. When they shift the view from the 360 to the PS3 version, one can immediately see that the staircase effect on the reams of the car are more jarring and obvious on the 360 version.

The above are only slight differences. The most obvious difference to me are the explosions. The PS3 version has the definite advantage here. Bigger, more particles and fuller smoke.


In all, I'd prefer the PS3 version. Though as I live in asia, the 360 just dropped its price by 20% hmmm..... decisions decisions.....

 

[65536]

.

 

[TheRipDizz]

Gametrailers comparison: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33469.html

Wow. The resolution differences really make the detail in the 360 version stand out. Textures in the PS3 version look kinda eww by comparison. No Thanks.

 

[godhandiscen]

Gametrailers comparison: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33469.html

There is a lot of popup on the PS3 version at the end during the flyby, but this isn't happening at all on the 360. A freaking building dissapears in front of the helicopter in the PS3 version. WTF?

 

[bishoptl]

I honestly felt the evidence in the GT video made it clear that, explosions aside, both versions had strengths and weaknesses, and that any owner of any version would be happy with their decision.

Agreed.

 

[Stinkles]

Agreed.

This is no time for agreement.

 

[JRW]

I just got back from witnessing GTA4 (360) on a friends 32" SDTV CRT. I could barely read the text on the cellphone and had to crank the in game brightness setting up .. Ugh, anyhow I found it interesting that the game's framerate is noticeably smoother in 480i vs. how Ive been running it (720p).

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I just got back from witnessing GTA4 (360) on a friends 32" SDTV CRT. I could barely read the text on the cellphone and had to crank the in game brightness setting up .. Ugh, anyhow I found it interesting that the game's framerate is noticeably smoother in 480i vs. how Ive been running it (720p).

A lower resolution to render would help a lot if it uses a 480p sized frame buffer when in SD than just downscaling from 720p.

 

[Speevy]

that gt comparison needs more driving

 

[bishoptl]

This is no time for agreement.

I agree with this sentiment also.

Wait, what?

 

[CrushDance]

Personally I don't really care about these comparisons anyway and GT is still my favourite site for reviews, but they don't really compare properly. That's why there was that debacle a while back with people asking why PS3 games looked so light.

We don't create these videos for the fanboys. That's not the point. We create them so that people who own both systems can be a little more informed on which version to buy. It's the fanboys that turn the comments section for these videos into a debacle.

As for using RGB or adjusting the white levels on the PS3, that completely defeats the point of these videos. We play both systems on default settings with the same cabling. If we were to adjust the settings on the PS3 to make it look better then we'd be sacrificing the integrity of the video. It's not the other way around.

And yet...

Just addressing the whole "it's too light!" comments. You know theres barely any difference when people are having to ZOOM IN 300X to spot anything. Enjoy the game!

I agree with this sentiment also.

Wait, what?

:lol

 

[Fallout-NL]

Wow. The resolution differences really make the detail in the 360 version stand out. Textures in the PS3 version look kinda eww by comparison. No Thanks.

Yeah, in that video the 360 version really does look significantly better (especially the cut-scenes), and that's coming from a guy who owns the PS3 version. So, no bias here.

 

[Blimblim]

Personally I don't really care about these comparisons anyway and GT is still my favourite site for reviews, but they don't really compare properly. That's why there was that debacle a while back with people asking why PS3 games looked so light.


And yet...

http://i11.tinypic.com/62zumfd.jpg[img]

[img]http://i11.tinypic.com/6cqm72e.jpg[img]

[img]http://i12.tinypic.com/6g3orib.jpg[img]

[img]http://i10.tinypic.com/4t7nres.jpg[img]

Just addressing the whole "it's too light!" comments. You know theres barely any difference when people are having to ZOOM IN 300X to spot anything. Enjoy the game![/QUOTE]
I don't see the point of your screens. We all know that HDMI captures will always look better than component. But as long as you are capturing both 360 and PS3 footage with component, the comparison itself is still valid.
And it's not like you can't adjust the colors from the captured footage afterwards. Personally I use avisynth to postprocess the video and adjust the luminance to what it should be.

 

[CrushDance]

I don't see the point of your screens. We all know that HDMI captures will always look better than component. But as long as you are capturing both 360 and PS3 footage with component, the comparison itself is still valid.
And it's not like you can't adjust the colors from the captured footage afterwards. Personally I use avisynth to postprocess the video and adjust the luminance to what it should be.

True. This would have been easily solved if Sony included an HDMI cable in the box, there would be no excuse then.

Edit: Yeah i was wrong. The complaints were about GT not using HDMI on the PS3. But really like I said above, it`s Sony`s fault at the end of the day.

 

[konrad77]

I don't see the point of your screens. We all know that HDMI captures will always look better than component. But as long as you are capturing both 360 and PS3 footage with component, the comparison itself is still valid.
And it's not like you can't adjust the colors from the captured footage afterwards. Personally I use avisynth to postprocess the video and adjust the luminance to what it should be.

Well, capture them with HDMI then. I guess most of the ps3 users connect their ps3 through the HDMI interface.

 

[lowrider007]

Yeah, in that video the 360 version really does look significantly better (especially the cut-scenes), and that's coming from a guy who owns the PS3 version. So, no bias here.

significantly better, eh?, I'm sorry and I don't mean to be rude, but significantly better ?, I've watched that video 4 times now and seen both versions in the flesh, no way on this planet is either version significantly better , what are you seeing that I'm not, and I'm a graphics whore normally.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

When a freakin' CG text over black background appears grey, your set-ups calibration is screwy.

 

[Slayer-33]

Wow. The resolution differences really make the detail in the 360 version stand out. Textures in the PS3 version look kinda eww by comparison. No Thanks.

Considering that the whole game will always look sharper and better most of the time because of the sharpness, 360 version for me.

I don't care about a few extra fluffs from the PS3 version explosions, I hate blurrier textures and darker washed out colors.

:lol

Cant wait for the DL content as well, I do kinda wish I had a dualshock though (just for this game).. but oh well.

 

[p3tran]

Gametrailers comparison: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33469.html

so I tried to find differences (other that the slightly crisper gfx)...
at ~2:40 when the night helicopter ride is shown, is the getalife building appearing-disappearing on ps3 at close distance?

 

[Brashnir]

so I tried to find differences (other that the slightly crisper gfx)...
at ~2:40 when the night helicopter ride is shown, is the getalife building appearing-disappearing on ps3 at close distance?

yep