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[MassiveAttack]

Yeah, a long time before you actually
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10969021&postcount=132

Wreckless was a pretty poor effort of a game, but its lighting engine was way ahead of its time.

Well, to be fair, Wreckless was developed with a staff of just 11 with a schedule of less than 1.5 years and a budget that would make most people laugh.

Does anyone have figures for GTA4 in terms of staff size, development schedule, cost? Les Benzies at Rockstar North put the total PD cost at well above $100M.

 

[moai]

360 version here: massive pop up (launch unit maybe?) and some multi matches get slowdowns to unbearable levels.

 

[bigmakstudios]

I've already posted this in the GTA 4 official thread, but I thought it might be slightly more pertinent here. Basically, I think something might be wrong with my 360, and I noticed it while playing GTA 4.
It was running perfectly fine yesterday. There weren't any horrible framerate problems, and the jaggies were mostly unnoticeable. But today, after switching my HDMI cable out for a component video cable, it's looked and performed horridly. While switching the cables, I was suspending the 360 in the air vertically, and I might have... I don't know... inadvertently waggled it a little while I was switching them, but I don't think that movement was nearly enough to damage it. Yet, the game looked and played starkly different in 720p over component video than it did in 720p over HDMI. It was blurry, I was constantly seeing objects pop-up, and the shadow dithering looked about 100 times worse. Occasionally, the framerate would slow down significantly, and at one point, the game stopped completely for a split second before returning to a normal frame rate. I tried using the HDMI cable again to see if switching the cables had caused the problem, even though I thought that seemed like a strange concept, but while my 360 was connected through HDMI, the game still seemed to perform differently than it had yesterday. The aliasing was much more prominent than it had been before, and again, the pop-up was very bad, although strangely enough, it wasn't as bad as it was while the 360 was connected through component video cables.
So, I have a few questions.
Is my 360 on its death bed?
If I am just imagining that it looks worse through HDMI than it did yesterday, then why is it that it's also performing blatantly horrible through component video cables? Why the hell would that make any difference whatsoever in image quality, let alone performance?

I posted this yesterday, and I was hoping for more responses. I really want to know if anyone else has had this problem before.

 

[BeeDog]

Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I hope Rock* uses the interweb to finally patch their games, and if possible, perhaps optimize the engine a bit (don't know how many console devs have done it so far, only remember hearing that Sony Liverpool improved something for F1:CE).

 

[Xint]

PS3 40gb version here. Although I'm getting used to the graphics, I must say I wasn't impressed at first. Jaggies, bad framerate and that whole smeary feeling the game has.

This is running on a 720p HDTV through a (cheap ass) HDMI-cable. I've actually been considering if there's something wrong with my TV or cable, even though my other games run fine

 

[DeadGzuz]

For example when indoors the 360 version is hitting well above 30fps, you can just see the extra smoothness in the framerate, yet on PS3 it seems to be capped at a max 30fps no matter what.

How would you know if it's above 30fps if v-sync is enabled? Are you claiming it's jumping to 60fps on the 360? It is possible, but I bet the game is locked at 30fps.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

How would you know if it's above 30fps if v-sync is enabled? Are you claiming it's jumping to 60fps on the 360? It is possible, but I bet the game is locked at 30fps.

In does look much smoother in certain occasions.

 

[Relix]

In does look much smoother in certain occasions.

Yeah, in some parts it definitely goes over 30FPS. My eyes are trained for this lol ) and I notice the slight changes, same way I notice the slowdown. Hell, to me the FPS of this game is 25 with some moments of 30 inside buildings. It's disappointing, but the scale is breathtaking

 

[65536]

.

 

[Surfheart]

I'm glad I purchased it only on PS3 then. I mean, the slightly higher framerate would be nice (though it still seems low to me), but the visual changes in the 360 version produce a less appealing visual package. The framerate on PS3 is not good by any means, but it is better than the PS2 games as well as stuff like Saint's Row. I actually popped in GTA3 yesterday just for kicks and the framerate feels much worse.

Had I owned both versions, I would have gone crazy trying to figure out which one I wanted to keep. I'll just deal with the framerate and continue.

Indeed, this is very true. The 360's framerate is less than ideal as well. To say the difference is night and day between the two would be misleading.

With regards to online, I've had games were the framerates have been in single digits on both versions and then other games were the framerate has been pretty good. It seems tied to lag and neither version is better or worse than the other.

Each version has it's own set of compromises. I guess we'll have to wait for the perfect version to appear, on PC

 

[cjtiger300]

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20080504#1209914577

Wow at the Flesh tones on the PS3 screen of Roman. To me the PS3 looks way better on that one. On the other pics it looks like the 360 is a little sharper. Big surprise, but I prefer the PS3 version. I guess that is good since that is the one I have.

 

[cjtiger300]

Call me crazy, but the trees look way better on the PS3 as well. It may be trivial but take a look!

360

PS3

 

[JRW]

Call me crazy, but the trees look way better on the PS3 as well. It may be trivial but take a look!

360

PS3

360 has more shrubs on the ground (look by the benches) and the only difference i see with the tree's is the bottom half of the tree's are darker on ps3.. perhaps a different time of day? not sure how you'd think ps3's looks better in that shot.

And whats with the funky checkerboard effect on the nearest bench (PS3). Looks proper on 360.

 

[cjtiger300]

Look at the leaves. Here are more.

360

PS3

Here is a really good one, and the cell phone shows its the same time of day.

360

PS3

 

[Agent Ironside]

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20080504#1209914577

Wow, great comparisons, I gotta go with the 360's crispness on this though, more shrubs as well, hmmm, gotta be the memory constraint on the PS3.

 

[cool_dude]

Look at the leaves. Here are more.

360

PS3

Here is a really good one, and the cell phone shows its the same time of day.

360

PS3

I like the 360 trees better. They look less "planar" and more "leafy."

 

[JRW]

Look at the leaves. Here are more.

360

PS3

Here is a really good one, and the cell phone shows its the same time of day.

360

PS3

lol wow you really think ps3's tree's look better? Especially in the bottom set where the cellphone shows the same time.

 

[cjtiger300]

I like the 360 trees better. They look less "planar" and more "leafy."

To me the 360 trees look like they are painted (if that makes any sense). The PS3 trees have more variety. I can't believe I am breaking down the trees in a Video game. I have truly been GAFafied (think I just made up a word)!

 

[cjtiger300]

lol wow you really think ps3's tree's look better? Especially in the bottom set where the cellphone shows the same time.

Yeah, I do. Not sure why that is "lol" worthy.

 

[JRW]

Yeah, I do. Not sure why that is "lol" worthy.

Nah thats fine I was just 'lol' because to me the 360's tree's look better, I guess I like the sharper / Bob Ross painted look

 

[iceatcs]

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20080504#1209914577

Great comparisons, I can see why some prefer PS3 or 360.

 

[Bebpo]

http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/GTA4/GTA4_06_360.png
http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/GTA4/GTA4_06_PS3.png

PS3 cab shows the shitty jaggies that bring the PS3 version down.

http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/GTA4/GTA4_26_360.png
http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/GTA4/GTA4_26_PS3.png

The background sky, the shadows, and their surroundings show how the PS3 version can look better in the backgrounds. Foregrounds always win on X360 IMO because what's right in your face should be sharp, but as you get further away the PS3 look is arguably nicer for the distance and color.

 

[h3ro]

...I guess I like the sharper / Bob Ross painted look

happy little trees ftw.

 

[65536]

.

 

[dfyb]

Did anyone else spot that there doesn't seem to be nearly as much grass in the PS3 version there?

yeah, and 360 has no flowers but ps3 does. zomg [edit: looked again, 360 screen might have flowers -- if those are flowers, they just aren't reflecting light as well as the ps3 flowers]

there's a very good chance those weeds and flowers aren't manually placed by the developers. in all likelyhood, they use a technique that places simple objects like that when you have geometry that uses a specific texture. i can't remember the name of the technique, but i've used it while making maps for the half-life 2 engine. as the level artist, you just place the texture and configure the script that places weeds/flowers etc. it will generate them in-game when geometry is using that specific texture, and depending on the script, it probably won't generate the same placement/quantity every time.

in other words, it's not like rockstar put more weeds in the 360 version because the ps3 version couldn't handle it, like some of you are implying :lol. if anything, that screenshot comparison would give the memory issue edge to ps3 because the ps3 has both flowers and shrubs in ram while the 360 only has shrubs -- the amount of ram it takes to have multiple isntances of the same object is negligible. but again, that would be a silly conclusion to come to.

personally i think the large number of shrubs in the 360 screenshot look awkward. typically parks aren't going to have a lot of large weeds/small shrubs all in the grass like that - http://www.dailyventure.com/400x300/nyc_centralPark_01.jpg

 

[iceatcs]

Grass and flower is random cos once I went to the park at the night it was little too much grass cos those are so fucking ugly. Daytime looks much different like this PS3 shot where there aren't much around.

[edit] OR can you see the gardener on PS3 shots? Maybe he has removed some weeds

 

[dfyb]

light-hearted post removed

dunno how strict bish is being with sarcastic posts.

 

[AgentOtaku]

....I traded in my PS3 version for 360 version =x

 

[UncleGuito]

....I traded in my PS3 version for 360 version =x

I still have both versions, but I don't know how long I'm going to keep the PS3 one. I was over 15 hours in on my PS3, but I restarted the campaign on my 360 because the multiplayer is a much smoother experience, and the graphics are definitely easier on the eyes (after starting the 360 campaign, I really can't go back to the "blurred" look of the PS3 version).

 

[chespace]

I still have both versions, but I don't know how long I'm going to keep the PS3 one. I was over 15 hours in on my PS3, but I restarted the campaign on my 360 because the multiplayer is a much smoother experience, and the graphics are definitely easier on the eyes (after starting the 360 campaign, I really can't go back to the "blurred" look of the PS3 version).

Seriously, I wonder what the press was referring to when they said the PS3 version edged out 360 in graphics. Buh?

 

[Bebpo]

Seriously, I wonder what the press was referring to when they said the PS3 version edged out 360 in graphics. Buh?

I guess they really liked colors & shadows.

I'd trade in my PS3 version, but all my friends are on PSN and since I'm not a big fan of single player GTA in the first place, I doubt I'd put in the hours to even make it worth it. For the amount I'll play the graphics are good enough.

 

[dreamer3kx]

I guess they really liked colors & shadows.

I'd trade in my PS3 version, but all my friends are on PSN and since I'm not a big fan of single player GTA in the first place, I doubt I'd put in the hours to even make it worth it. For the amount I'll play the graphics are good enough.

??..wha

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I guess they really liked colors & shadows.

Those are some of my favorite things about the game, actually. (360 version, though.)

On a clear sunny day, there's colors and shadows galore.

 

[Bebpo]

Those are some of my favorite things about the game, actually. (360 version, though.)

On a clear sunny day, there's colors and shadows galore.

For shadows I meant the cleaner look they have on the PS3 and the colors difference has been discussed to death by now.

The X360 version is still pretty much the better version, but those are the two areas where PS3 triumphs it IMO. Which is why I answered those two aspects to Che's question of why reviewers liked the PS3 visuals more.

??..wha

Eh, nothing against the games. I just never get more than 10% in any of them before I lose interest. Now Crackdown & Just Cause I loooooved. So I guess I'm just not a fan of missions in cars and stuff. Also I'm like blimblim in that I couldn't really get into the old ones because of the framerate and I was hoping GTA4's framerate would be gorgeous and make me a GTA fan...but it's still not so I'm still not.

 

[UncleGuito]

Those are some of my favorite things about the game, actually. (360 version, though.)

On a clear sunny day, there's colors and shadows galore.

With the expanded black level option enabled on my 360, the colors look really awesome- they're as good as, if not better, than on my PS3 version. I'm about 12 hours into the 360 campaign now, and I'd say that the only visual edge the PS3 version has on the 360's is the amount of pop-ins. The 360 version definitely has more, even if they still aren't that noticeable (usually objects like signs appearing in the distance on occasion).

I'm surprised that there haven't been comparison screens showing the multiplayer, though. On my TV, at least, the difference is very noticeable. For some reason, the PS3 version has a considerable amount of jaggies while the 360 one has barely any (HDMI and VGA, respectively). Not to mention the online framerate of the 360 version is much better.

 

[rollingstart]

Seriously, I wonder what the press was referring to when they said the PS3 version edged out 360 in graphics. Buh?

maybe different preference and all that.

I know some of my friends kept the blur shit on for Vice City and I turned it off right away. I just finished the PS3 game and what little I played on the 360 makes me think that version looks better.

 

[chubigans]

Wow, look at the difference in these shots:

Its a good thing I like the PS3 version since I'm stuck with it.

 

[flipswitch]

How does the xbox 360 version compare to the PS3 ver in regards to car pop up and fade in?More traffic/more peds on screen or no? We know that the ps3 has more jaggies, and the image is on the blurry side( which Im used to).

 

[Lion Heart]

In chubigans shots, I definitely like the ps3s street shot, but i like the 360s park shot. Anyway, im glad I have the PS3 version although 360s smoother online is something that concerns me. But purely on the look of the two, I prefer PS3s. I think 360s is technically better, but the cinematic look (or w/e you want to call it) is nicer on the triple. Its definitely a preference though, probably like a 50/50 split on a survey.

 

[cameltoe]

Ok, I traded the PS3 version for the 360 version because I heard the frame rate was better on the 360.

In SP it is exactly the same. I havent played MP as much as I have on teh PS3 but so far it seems pretty solid.

The PS3 version looked a lot better IMO. These flickering shadows/textures/trees are really annoying on the 360. Driving under the train tracks gives me a headache....the fucking shadow flicker is nuts....Oh, and the pop-in is like 3x's worse.

 

[chubigans]

Ok, I traded the PS3 version for the 360 version because I heard the frame rate was better on the 360.

In SP it is exactly the same. I havent played MP as much as I have on teh PS3 but so far it seems pretty solid.

The PS3 version looked a lot better IMO. These flickering shadows/textures/trees are really annoying on the 360. Driving under the train tracks gives me a headache....the fucking shadow flicker is nuts....Oh, and the pop-in is like 3x's worse.

So are you going to switch back? :lol

 

[DeadGzuz]

Seriously, I wonder what the press was referring to when they said the PS3 version edged out 360 in graphics. Buh?

Because they were not counting pixels, they just liked the look?

 

[cameltoe]

So are you going to switch back? :lol

No....Ill deal.

 

[WickedLaharl]

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20080504#1209914577

holy fuck at the aliasing in the ps3 version in this comparison.

 

[antiloop]

Look at the leaves. Here are more.

360

PS3

Here is a really good one, and the cell phone shows its the same time of day.

360

PS3

Actually that's what I noticed the most in the gamesradar (I think it was their vid). The trees looked so much better on PS3. Although the framerate looked lower.


Edit:

What's with the shadows?

compared to the PS3 version:

 

[AgentOtaku]

Put 3 hours into SP tonight and:

- WOW!, with the exception of when there's alotta shit going on, yeah, indeed the 360 version runs ALOT smoother in my eyes....and yeah, it's really weird that you can tell in many places it looks like it's running around 35-45 fps. The PS3 version constantly hovered around sub 30 to 25ish...

- Controls...well I just couldn't get comfortable with them with the DSIII =(

- sound really is identical it seems. Also this game is quieter that your average game...I mean in that, I have to turn the volume up quite a bit

- I thought I would have missed the "blurrier/more natural look" of PS3 version, but I immediately took to the look of the 360 sku and now I prefer that more....More than likely because of the relatively smoother framerate and overall sharpness to the image...oh my PS3 and X360 are hooked up via HDMI btw at 720p

....anyways, that's all I got for now

 

[Forsete]

Uh I didnt think the 360 version would look THAT bad.. Im really no fan of that photoshop effect. Does it shimmer in the distance? Looks like it would.

 

[Fafalada]

I remember back in 2002 dreaming of the day when we would have a GTA game that looked as good or better than Wreckless. I'm glad that day is finally here.

Wreckless was a good example of the simple fact that HDR is more about artistic touch and little about technology (the extended range wasn't even dynamic, it was uber low-precision, but the end results speak for themselves).
Not that that would stop arguments about which HDR tech is better.

 

[dfyb]

holy fuck at the aliasing in the ps3 version in this comparison.

other than that one yellow sign, i think the ps3 version in that shot has less aliasing than the 360 shot. there's some pretty bad 360 aliasing going on, too, you know. take off your goggles.

edit: assuming you're talking about the first two images. but in general, i think ps3's image is smoother in most cases. especially far away objects, but often times closeup objects too. like the one of roman.

 

[OverHeat]

Wreckless was a good example of the simple fact that HDR is more about artistic touch and little about technology (the extended range wasn't even dynamic, it was uber low-precision, but the end results speak for themselves).
Not that that would stop arguments about which HDR tech is better.

Any good video of wreckless to show this?