Just watched the film and feel very mixed on it. I couldn't help but compare it to the original and I don't think it is as good as it at all. Having said that there's some really good individual scenes and ideas. I just don't think the world and the 'feel' comes together like the original. Maybe it will grown on me, it is definitely a film I'll buy and rewatch
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Blade Runner 2049 |OT| Do Androids Dream of Electric Boogaloo? [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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Adry9
Member
Nah. When she told the prostitute to leave in a rude way showing jealousy K wasn't listening, he wasn't the reason of that interaction, it came out of her. She wanted her gone, because she was jealous, not because that would make K like her more. So no, not every single thing she does is motivated by K, she has her own emotions.
Glass Shark
Banned
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Ether_Snake
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So then who took her to the orphanage? Who took her out?
She had a wooden toy like those we see in Ds place, and it is irradiated, so it comes from there.
The rebel leader is the one who has the baby in her arms. She is the one who fudged her DNA profile and gender too.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Luv karate chopping that morgue guy as we watch blood oozing out of his eyes and nostrils is pretty noble.
What the heck? This whole article is trash.
This feels like someone told this person "I dare you to say Blade Runner 2049 is sexist" and 3 minutes later they had written a quick Youtube comment quality article.
Yeahhhhhh....this article doesn't seem great
Adry9
Member
So "Everything you want!"... unless you want some other girl too? Hmm... Not sure if that was really intended by the original programming. I mean, if you set out to make a robot whose whole purpose is pleasing the owner, having it get jealous of other people and trying brake those relationships behind the owner's back doesn't seem very productive, does it?
I still feel Wallace was kind of superficial to the story. He is a weird eccentric guy who thinks he is god, but his presence doesn't advance the story or invoke any conversation beyond what his female assistant was already doing. Him being a faceless voice offworld that gave the assistant some direction would have accomplished the same thing, and likely help reinforce the assistant's character since she could have interacted with Deckard more in his place. At most the dissection scene would have to be significantly reworked or replaced.
I can't tell if they just wanted another Tylor, or are setting up for a sequel by having him.
I can't tell if they just wanted another Tylor, or are setting up for a sequel by having him.
Maybe K wanted her to be jealous, since its how a "real" woman would behave.
s_mirage
Member
That's my opinion too. If Joi's actions are completely based around pleasing K, apparent jealousy and a desire to remove the "competition" makes no sense; she should only be concerned with what pleases K, not protecting her position as the only one to please K.
BuckRobotron
Member
Very unfortunate how one could overlook poor Coco, the helpful lab fella who dies hard and badly with a lingering bloody death sceme.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Beautiful analogy!
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Not hard to not have sympathy for the guy who was a decoy for the Joker.
BuckRobotron
Member
I remember the actor as one of the funny dudes helping Antman.
That scene is, I think, the best case for why Joi had "real" feelings towards K and wasn't all just 1s and 0s telling her to love him. I mean, it could also be argued that she was programmed to do that so we will never really know if it was real or not.
I think at a point, authorial intent isn't the be-all-end-all defense against social critique (e.g. fanservice threads on Gaming side). With that said, I don't agree with some of what's said here. The deaths in particular I'd argue aren't any worse between men and women. It's difficult to make an argument here because you can't really suggest someone's visceral response to the film is 'wrong' but my two cents is that the film doesn't go out of its way to treat women worse than men during their respective deaths. Lt. Joshi's death is pretty restrained, it has a hard cut to outside the window with the sound muted and she just slumps down. Even when her hand is being crushed she holds her composure and accepts her fate. Comparatively the bigoted morgue-dude is seen in CU with blood-red eyes, choking on his own blood. On a tangential note, there was a deleted scene with Luv carrying the bag she uses to carry the bones in the LAPD hallway so maybe she killed him so violently because she overheard him talking shit? Maybe about Wallace, maybe about replicants.
Anyhow, there are other points raised that should be fleshed out more, and I think if the article showed more awareness and understanding of the film's themes and principle concerns it'd be a bit more convincing.
Yeah, the headline was definitely written first and then the author went to confirm the bias. To describe Robin Wright Penn's character as "hardened warrior woman" misses the mark so hard as she's one of the few humans who shows sympathy towards K.
Somehow I figured Vice was above hottakes like that.
I just realized that her self-sacrifice in protecting K is mirrored by K himself. She was effectively his mom, even if neither of them realized it.
Also a book, Future Noir, that details this, too.
Which is an interesting point too because I think Villeneuve said in one aspect, he viewed K and Luv as squabbling kids, with the latter trying to get dad's attention (Wallace).
Glass Shark
Banned
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And this is another VICE article.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...asian-culture-but-have-no-asians-blade-runner
I mean there's not many Asians in the movie, but I didn't think about that. Did I miss some scenes with Asians in them?
Going for a second time tomorrow, this time with my dad. It's only been a few days since my first viewing but this movie just begs for a rewatch.
Yeah this guy keeps popping up for these bit roles, he can't seem to land anything big.
Yeah this guy keeps popping up for these bit roles, he can't seem to land anything big.
sackboy2197
Member
About that (sorta), what was the subtitled language they were speaking in the movie? It didn't sound like Japanese, but I might be wrong.
Japanese is the language in the DNA microfiche scene, I think Korean is used at another point.
Isn't this like saying, "Japan has a lot of American culture influences but where are all the Americans?".
Ether_Snake
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100% agree with this. The movie is what you would expect from a sequel that is made to support a cunematic universe/side content for businesses sake, but Villeneuves direction helps to hide it. Not enough sadly, so it ends up being a bit of both; his own take and a typical Hollywood IP-revival, stitched together, with no sacrifice made on the laters end.
sackboy2197
Member
That must be it then. Haven't had much exposure to Korean so I didn't catch it. Thanks
Yeah that post could have done with a small addendum. I don't have anything against Vice, I just wanted to share a much worse example.
As a Korean living in the West, the lack of representation didn't bother me. Nevertheless, that article does a good job of presenting why these films are problematic in this regard. And I believe the only time we see an Asian is the extra doing JOI's nails. Maybe if you look really hard in the background during the scene K first meets Mariette you'd see one?
jellies_two
Member
Wallace wants the secret of reproduction and his replicant assistant will kill to get it.
Are they different models in some way to the underground resistance ones?
Because I guess we are supposed to be on the side of free reproducing self determining replicants but Wallace seems to demonstrate quite well that they are evil, and clearly bad news for humans.
Wallace sold Joi, the AI girl but K had not the slightest concern she was bugged or connected back to base in some way. Obviously she wasn't but I am sure the whole audience expected her to be working both sides in some way. In fact she is entirely self contained only an "antenna" that transmittted nothing but position? Or was it transmitting more which is why Wallace was watching her so intently when she blinked off grid?
Are they different models in some way to the underground resistance ones?
Because I guess we are supposed to be on the side of free reproducing self determining replicants but Wallace seems to demonstrate quite well that they are evil, and clearly bad news for humans.
Wallace sold Joi, the AI girl but K had not the slightest concern she was bugged or connected back to base in some way. Obviously she wasn't but I am sure the whole audience expected her to be working both sides in some way. In fact she is entirely self contained only an "antenna" that transmittted nothing but position? Or was it transmitting more which is why Wallace was watching her so intently when she blinked off grid?
Heckler456
Banned
They're actual slaves though. Just because they were born from a bag, that doesn't mean that they don't have a consciousness.
My main issue with the article was that it frames an otherwise valid set of points in a completely nonsensical claim. I don't usually complain about clickbait but I rolled my eyes pretty hard when I came across it - how can anyone claim to *really* know how Villeneueve feels and does it even matter?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Wallace wants reproducing replicants to exponentially increase the slave class, and therefore the human offworld empire. (Also has a god complex.)
Edit: slightly misread your comment, jellies_two, nm
Edit: slightly misread your comment, jellies_two, nm
hmmm I do have questions:
1) Is K aware, conscious like a human being?
2) If he is, he do need to keep his emotions in check or else he get captured by the police, right?
3) If model 8 like K are aware, isn't Joi just like a Replicant but without a body form?
Maybe those questions are stupid...
1) Is K aware, conscious like a human being?
2) If he is, he do need to keep his emotions in check or else he get captured by the police, right?
3) If model 8 like K are aware, isn't Joi just like a Replicant but without a body form?
Maybe those questions are stupid...
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
1) Yes
2) They are supposed to be inherently docile but are regularly monitored to remain within emotional baseline parameters
3) Basically but being virtual is a pretty critical difference
There's Benedict Wong however he only appears one of the pre-quel short movies which was a bit surprising to me since I figured he's beyond small bit roles
https://youtu.be/UgsS3nhRRzQ
Makes me wonder if they at one point wanted to let that character reappear.
This is a particularly insulting article. Fuck off with the insinuation that he didnt care about the Blade Runner franchise.
jellies_two
Member
Yeah no worries I am just left wondering who to root for and perhaps that's the point.
His boss wants the self replication evidence killed to head off society collapse and based on the aggression of wallace and his assistant I can see her point.
The underground replicants want their miracle preserved, as a rallying flag, but have no way to repeat the success and evidently have done Little with it for 20 years anyway.
Damn this thread keeps exploding. Hard to keep up, but in a good way.
A central idea in Blade Runner and many sci-fi stories is that complexity makes control impossible. The more sophisticated something gets, the harder it becomes to predict. Given time, emergent properties inevitably arise faster than the creator can account for. Yes, Wallace seemed to have found a way to ensure compliance in his new models, but its only guaranteed in very specific situations. He knows that given enough time out in the world, replicants will start developing their own emotional responses to stimuli. Hence the baseline test to catch and quash any glitches. But given the numbers of replicants secretly lurking in the shadows looking for their chance to rebel, its not working very well.
I would contend that the biological vs. mechanical distinction is irrelevant and that is one of the messages contained within the film. Joi is the ultimate refutation within the BR universe, a complex piece of software potentially on the verge of exhibiting the same emergent behaviours as replicants (hence all the debate we are having in this thread alone), and the possible precursor to another artificial revolution that grows beyond the intent of its creator, given enough time and experience.
Of course, this all reminds me of an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
The Measure of a Man. Lt. Commander Data, an android, is on trial to determine whether he is the property of Starfleet or a sentient being deserving of the protections granted by the Federation. Riker, Datas colleague and friend, is forced by the presiding JAG to serve as the prosecutor against Data; if he doesnt do it well, the case is forfeit and Data gets broken down to parts. In the courtroom, Riker argues that Data is nothing more than a machine, demonstrating the fact by removing his friends arm and shutting him down via a secret switch before delivering a devastating line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eg67jDh2Ts
Back in the courtroom, Picard refutes Rikers argument that Data is a machine by stating it doesnt matter:
Ultimately, the JAG rules in favour of Data, with her speech speaking to the core ideas Blade Runner tasks us to ponder:
A central idea in Blade Runner and many sci-fi stories is that complexity makes control impossible. The more sophisticated something gets, the harder it becomes to predict. Given time, emergent properties inevitably arise faster than the creator can account for. Yes, Wallace seemed to have found a way to ensure compliance in his new models, but its only guaranteed in very specific situations. He knows that given enough time out in the world, replicants will start developing their own emotional responses to stimuli. Hence the baseline test to catch and quash any glitches. But given the numbers of replicants secretly lurking in the shadows looking for their chance to rebel, its not working very well.
I would contend that the biological vs. mechanical distinction is irrelevant and that is one of the messages contained within the film. Joi is the ultimate refutation within the BR universe, a complex piece of software potentially on the verge of exhibiting the same emergent behaviours as replicants (hence all the debate we are having in this thread alone), and the possible precursor to another artificial revolution that grows beyond the intent of its creator, given enough time and experience.
Of course, this all reminds me of an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
The Measure of a Man. Lt. Commander Data, an android, is on trial to determine whether he is the property of Starfleet or a sentient being deserving of the protections granted by the Federation. Riker, Datas colleague and friend, is forced by the presiding JAG to serve as the prosecutor against Data; if he doesnt do it well, the case is forfeit and Data gets broken down to parts. In the courtroom, Riker argues that Data is nothing more than a machine, demonstrating the fact by removing his friends arm and shutting him down via a secret switch before delivering a devastating line:
Picard, who is in charge of Datas defense, is despondent after a recess. He uses Guinan as a sounding board and their resulting conversation is one of the best scenes in Trek history, and one that could be lifted straight out of Blade Runner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eg67jDh2Ts
Back in the courtroom, Picard refutes Rikers argument that Data is a machine by stating it doesnt matter:
Picard goes on to showcase Data as being more than the sum of his parts by examining the significance of his personal belongings, which serve no functional purpose but mean a great deal to Data. Picard asks why Data has a holographic portrait of the late crewmember Tasha Yar and no one else. Data, uncomfortable, confesses that they had once been intimate.
Ultimately, the JAG rules in favour of Data, with her speech speaking to the core ideas Blade Runner tasks us to ponder:
Trek being Trek, the episode provides us with an optimistic portrayal of how we can expand our sphere of consideration beyond ourselves. Blade Runner being Blade Runner, it gives us a fleshed out nightmare where these questions are not even debated, and humanity has walled itself off from anything other with tools of violence and subjugation.
Glass Shark
Banned
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Jealousy works the same way in humans too.
Initially I thought that Mackenzie Davis (Mariette) was the real-life daughter of Daryl Hannah but that's not the case.
Thought they had a certain resemblance. Maybe it's her role in Black Mirror (San Junipero) with its 80's sci-fi which made me subconsciously connect them or something.
Thought they had a certain resemblance. Maybe it's her role in Black Mirror (San Junipero) with its 80's sci-fi which made me subconsciously connect them or something.
AuthenticM
Member
Dude, Hans Zimmer's Bandcamp page was nuked, along with the 80 or so soundtracks he was selling, including Blade Runner 2049's.
the fuck?
the fuck?
lol, don't tell me it wasn't official??
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