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Blade Runner 2049 |OT| Do Androids Dream of Electric Boogaloo? [Unmarked Spoilers]

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
One scene that sticks out is Joi pleading K to fry her home station and take her with him. It is both written and acted as her trying to be actively persuasive. In other words, a moment where she was trying to gain something born of her own inrerest.

Wallace Corp may have gone overboard with the amount of behaviors they allow in their Joi lineup. They must always submit to their master similar to Arnold having to submit to John Connor in T2, but at some point they can develop a more human personality and learn more beyond their initial database parameters.
 

Window

Member
Somebody said it reminded them of a scene from Ghost!

I must have been the only person who was actually squicked by the scene. Vertigo is also problematic for me, but there it's clearly supposed to be unsettling.

https://youtu.be/8317VVohgMo

It's a bit unsettling here too. I definitely had conflicted feelings about it. Scottie projects the image of the woman he desire's onto the woman he's with (despite both being one and the same, he just can't see or accept this). Here, Joi literally projects her image onto Mariette as Joi is the woman K desires. It reduces Mariette to just a vessel. Are either one an authentic expression of love?
 

NateDog

Member
Relistened to Sea Wall for the first time since watching the movie, it really is an incredible piece of work. Honestly probably the best track from any movie I have seen for a long time.
 
It's a bit unsettling here too. I definitely had conflicted feelings about it. Scottie projects the image of the woman he desire's onto the woman he's with (despite both being one and the same, he just can't see or accept this). Here, Joi literally projects her image onto Mariette as Joi is the woman K desires. It reduces Mariette to just a vessel. Are either one an authentic expression of love?

Ah, at least somebody else gets it. I feel better now.

Anita Sarkeesian is going to mention this, and the YouTubers are going to go mental again.
 
Relistened to Sea Wall for the first time since watching the movie, it really is an incredible piece of work. Honestly probably the best track from any movie I have seen for a long time.

I love how the sound design in this movie made the soundtrack seem so OPPRESIVE compared to the dialogue and sound effects.

It just comes crashing into a scene in most cases and really adds to the tension.

Also the scene where K finds out that he's not the "birth" child is such an emotional gut punch.

But then he has his tragic hero moment in the end and seeing him relax / pass out on the steps at the end was so cathartic.

It's a bit unsettling here too. I definitely had conflicted feelings about it. Scottie projects the image of the woman he desire's onto the woman he's with (despite both being one and the same, he just can't see or accept this). Here, Joi literally projects her image onto Mariette as Joi is the woman K desires. It reduces Mariette to just a vessel. Are either one an authentic expression of love?

Ah, at least somebody else gets it. I feel better now.

Anita Sarkeesian is going to mention this, and the YouTubers are going to go mental again.

Remember though, JOI had planned this with Mariette after seeing that K had met her.

Mariette may be a prostitute, but it's implied that she heard JOI's idea and was willing to go with it, judging by Mariette telling K "You've got a special one here."

JOI's line of "I could tell you liked her" made me think of more like they're a couple that met a girl they could fancy having some fun with, like a couple that looks to add a third person into the mix.

The "overlay" certainly adds an extra layer to it, but I saw it more like JOI is unable to have sexual relations so she's "living" through Mariette who is willing to be the "interface" for JOI and K's romance.

Which in and of itself does seem to reduce Mariette to an object or tool, but if she consented to the act and actually complimented JOI about thinking about it at first, it seems like Marietta had the agency in the situation. Mariette was designed to be a pleasure model android, yet here she was asked by JOI to help her fulfill a fantasy and Mariette obliged. It seems less "objectifying" than if a human had demanded Mariette have sex or something of that nature.

However, afterwards when JOI is trying to kick Mariette out by saying "I'm done with you" it does make it seem like JOI may have had some regrets about the event or doesn't want to be reminded that Mariette was the "interface" and not JOI herself. To which Mariette responds by "not much inside of you" as an insult that reminds JOI that without Mariette, the experience wouldn't have been possible.

It's a very interesting dynamic, for sure but I don't think it's a negative one in essence. It does raise the interesting thought that how far can you go to "emulate" something to make it "real"?

A one night stand using an android prostitute as the physical interface for a digital AI that you've built a "relationship" is peak cyberpunk / futurism, in my opinion. It blends reality on multiple levels, just like the visuals of JOI and Mariette layered together did.
 
It's a bit unsettling here too. I definitely had conflicted feelings about it. Scottie projects the image of the woman he desire's onto the woman he's with (despite both being one and the same, he just can't see or accept this). Here, Joi literally projects her image onto Mariette as Joi is the woman K desires. It reduces Mariette to just a vessel. Are either one an authentic expression of love?

The tragedy of it heightened the authenticity for me.
 

daviyoung

Banned
Mariette is a replicant though.

Ok, well it's the next level down for K then. He's moved on past replicant interaction like humans moved on past human interaction. She's whatever she means by being a "real girl" - solid or human. Not sure it's stated if she is replicant.
 
Saw it last night with a couple of friends in IMAX. I bought the soundtrack and the art book is on back order. This movie was amazing I loved the city scape shots and the atmosphere of the world. Props to the entire design team for taking the vibe of the first film and continuing it: the grime in the vehicles, the handheld image maker, etc. etc. I can go on and on but yeah I need to see this again before it leaves the theater.
 
Ok, well it's the next level down for K then. He's moved on past replicant interaction like humans moved on past human interaction. She's whatever she means by being a "real girl" - solid or human. Not sure it's stated if she is replicant.

Yeah it doesn't really matter for the scene.

Her being a replicant, I got that idea from the fact she's instructed by Freysa to make contact with K.
 

daviyoung

Banned
Yeah it doesn't really matter for the scene.

Her being a replicant, I got that idea from the fact she's instructed by Freysa to make contact with K.

Just because she's part of the resistance doesn't mean much. Deckard said "we were being hunted" and his humanity is still ambiguous.
 
If there is ever a sequel I hope it turns out he's just having a well earned breather. But his being dead works well, too.

Like most noir films that end ambiguously but heavily favor the idea of the protagonist dying at the end, I like to leave it open ended just in case ;)

Ok, well it's the next level down for K then. He's moved on past replicant interaction like humans moved on past human interaction. She's whatever she means by being a "real girl" - solid or human. Not sure it's stated if she is replicant.

I'm assuming she never would have been able to "sync" with JOI had she been human. So I'm assuming she's a replicant.
 
Mariette is a replicant though.

I assume so, though I think it's a bit ambiguous.

Mariette may be an android just like Joe, but I don't think that makes any difference. She's a woman being used as a fuckdoll in that scene.


I'm assuming she never would have been able to "sync" with JOI had she been human. So I'm assuming she's a replicant.

I don't think androids have any special capabilities in that regard. For instance Joe still has to look at screens and the like. I think Joi is referring to synchronising her holographic simulation with Mariette's physical position and movements.
 

Window

Member
Just because she's part of the resistance doesn't mean much. Deckard said "we were being hunted" and his humanity is still ambiguous.

K threatening to retire her and the rest of the girls (albeit in a non-serious manner) when they ask him if he's a blade runner in addition to her involvement with the resistance is what makes me think she's a replicant. That and also because her profession represents the commodification of the human body, which is the role now replicants fill in.
 

daviyoung

Banned
K threatening to retire her and the rest of the girls (albeit in a non-serious manner) when they ask him if he's a blade runner in addition to her involvement with the resistance is what makes me think she's a replicant. That and also because her profession represents the commodification of the human body, which is the role now replicants fill in.

That's fine if that's your proof
 
She's a woman being used as a fuckdoll in that scene.

I am reminded of that scene in True Detective in episode 2 or 3 when Harrelson is being scolded by the madam. You know, the thing about prostitution and 'not owning it like you thought you did.'

Viewing prostitution (and Mariette's choice to engage in it) so negatively might also be sexist in a way.

Not saying one way or the other, just something to think of...
 
I have nothing to back this up with but I wonder if Johann was let go because he didn't want to recreate Vangelis' Tears in Rain?

My guess is it's more because Ridley Scott has had a long-time relationship with Zimmer and his crew, and Johann's music wasn't a good fit for this material.
 

jett

D-Member
I assume so, though I think it's a bit ambiguous.

Mariette may be an android just like Joe, but I don't think that makes any difference. She's a woman being used as a fuckdoll in that scene.

It's not ambiguous at all, she's part of the replicant revolution.
 
I don't think androids have any special capabilities in that regard. For instance Joe still has to look at screens and the like. I think Joi is referring to synchronising her holographic simulation with Mariette's physical position and movements.

True, it depends on who is the lead and who is the lag in the situation, I guess.

JOI could be following Mariette's lead, or vice versa. I'm assuming that's why JOI had to have a conversation with Mariette about it in the first place.
 

daviyoung

Banned
It's not ambiguous at all, she's part of the replicant revolution.

The film tells us who are clearly replicant characters and who are human characters, and then there are those in the middle. You do realise every time you post conjecture as evidence when the film has already proved it can show you the characters on either side of the line makes it look ever more incompetent. I would rather think the characters it does not make obvious are left intentionally blank, rather than a gap hoping the audience will fill in.
 

jett

D-Member
The film tells us who are clearly replicant characters and who are human characters, and then there are those in the middle. You do realise every time you post conjecture as evidence when the film has already proved it can show you the characters on either side of the line makes it look ever more incompetent. I would rather think the characters it does not make obvious are left intentionally blank, rather than a gap hoping the audience will fill in.

What?

She's at the end, with every other replicant, when they're amassing. FFS. Not everything in this movie is a riddle to be solved.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
What?

She's at the end, with every other replicant, when they're amassing. FFS. Not everything in this movie is a riddle to be solved.

Yep.

When Joi syncs with her she even does this sudden ceasing of movement and gives a blank stare with her head turned sideways. Very robotic.
 

jett

D-Member
I feel they could have dropped the barely explored underground revolution scenes and have Deckard deliver the revelations directly to K.

To be honest, on my second watch, it didn't sit well with me how easily Deckard gave up information about Rachel and their daughter to K. Why would he do that? And why would he deliver even more information about it? K is nobody to him. And may in fact compromise him. And he actually literally did. There are multiple clunky exposition dumps in the movie, but that's got to be the worst one for me.
I'm saying it's the opposite, you're the one trying to solve it. Is Deckard a replicant?
Seriously?
 

Kinyou

Member
I don't think androids have any special capabilities in that regard. For instance Joe still has to look at screens and the like. I think Joi is referring to synchronising her holographic simulation with Mariette's physical position and movements.
Mariette mentions how she was inside Jois head. It was more than simply matching movements.

I'm also not really sure why this would be a topic for Anita Sarkeesian. The conflicting emotions were the whole point of the scene.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
In the Judd Apatow version of the film, the resistance leader gives K the gun to kill Deckard and looks him firmly in the eye. She says

"Now go. Do what you must. Are you a replican, or a replicant?"

Hard cut to Beastie Boys' Sabotage set to montage of K (played by Paul Rudd) loading his gun, repairing his cycler, and putting on Deckard's coat from the original movie to truly become the BLADE RUNNER.
 

daviyoung

Banned
Seriously?

Yes. Answer the question.

Mariette mentions how she was inside Jois head. It was more than simply matching movements.

I'm also not really sure why this would be a topic for Anita Sarkeesian. The conflicting emotions were the whole point of the scene.

She's meant to be making it as true and romantic and pleasant for K as possible. She's not going to say "ugh, matching to an android again? Ok, put on yer condom mate. Let's get it over it over with"
 

ZombAid82

Member
IMAX Berlin (Sony Center). Granted 1,75 € is for online pre-sale (why would anybody buy the tickets online ...>_>).

I got it for 16€...
Something wrong with your payment options ;-)
Want to join me at the Eiszeit Kino today? ;-)
19:30 in 4K, 2D and Original language, but unfortunately with german subtitles...
 

daviyoung

Banned
The movie has given absolutely zero reason to assume that Mariette isn't a replicant

That's not answering my question but ok. She refers to herself as a "real girl".

Okay.

I'm not sure if Deckard is a replicant or not, but you are definitely a crazy person.

Hope that cleared it up.

Weird because there's loads of proof. What about his dog?

You don't have to get personal. It's not a way to make yourself look superior.
 

jett

D-Member
I agree I thought she was human as well. She even says something to K about him not liking real girls.

You realize Mariette is a physical being and Joi isn't, right.

That's not answering my question but ok. She refers to herself as a "real girl".

You don't have to get personal. It's not a way to make yourself look superior.

Oh you mean like calling me incompetent? Look, you're projecting. Again.
 

robotrock

Banned
Saw this movie again, in 2D IMAX this time though. I think that Roger Deakins guy has a point for his preference for the standard 2D showing.

Image too tall, bad contrast
 
Weird because there's loads of proof. What about his dog?

I'm not sure whether you're arguing Rick is human or not. But what does that have to do with the dog?

Speaking purely personally, I tend to assume the dog is a robot like the owl in Blade Runner. It survives in a building that's been booby trapped by Rick, and it doesn't react as most dogs would react to violent explosions and fights.
 

Kinyou

Member
She's meant to be making it as true and romantic and pleasant for K as possible. She's not going to say "ugh, matching to an android again? Ok, put on yer condom mate. Let's get it over it over with"
Not sure how that refers to my comment. When she talks about how she was inside Jois head K is not even in the room.
 
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