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[Blader]

I thought it was a rather heavy handed metaphor for the season and the fact that they built the ending up to be something it wasn't, instead culminating in a rather improbable final twist, is pretty damn cheap trick to play on the audience. Walt seeing the effects of his product on the people in the drug den gives exactly the same message without resorting to a series of contrivances for a supposed big "wow" moment.

Doesn't effect my view that this season was fantastic regardless. I just don't think it's hard to understand why people would react negatively.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[maharg]

I can see why people are pissed, but I'm not. Maybe just because S1 ended with a not-spectacular ending (because of the strike) I never held some expectation that this was That Kind of Show where season finales are particularly important.

I rather like that the foreshadowing wasn't obvious in meaning, and I like that the pieces fit together even so. Though a Chekov's gun about Q being an air traffic controller would have been helpful (unless there was one and I missed it).

 

[joshcryer]

Improbable final twist. :lol

People are just boned that two people weren't shot dead in Walt's driveway. I think people wanted to see how they would write their way out of it next season when we all know that would be highly unlikely. Dead drug dealers / meth heads / family in Walt's driveway = Walt is a suspect. House gets searched, money gets found.

 

[Spotless Mind]

Improbable final twist. :lol

2 planes crashing as an indirect result of Walt choosing to watch Jane suffocate and the debris landing in Walt's pool right in front of his eyes isn't improbable? I think putting the lives lost in that crash on Walt's conscience (they will almost certainly go there imo) undermines the level of realism the show usually portrays. It's just too big for the scope of this show and there were many subtler ways they could have gone about it.

 

[mattiewheels]

I think putting the lives lost in that crash on Walt's conscience (they will almost certainly go there imo) undermines the level of realism the show usually portrays.

i know what you mean here, but here's a thought: maybe they won't let walt make the connection, he never knows that he was responsible, and the whole thing is just kept as dramatic irony. i'm perfectly satisfied with that, i like how they summed up his selfish actions with a cataclysmic event that he may never feel the effects of, but we see them loud and clear. maybe he needs another season to see the effects of his work :lol

 

[Solaros]

2 planes crashing as an indirect result of Walt choosing to watch Jane suffocate and the debris landing in Walt's pool right in front of his eyes isn't improbable? I think putting the lives lost in that crash on Walt's conscience (they will almost certainly go there imo) undermines the level of realism the show usually portrays. It's just too big for the scope of this show and there were many subtler ways they could have gone about it.

This

The show plays with your moral conscience on an emotional level.

I usually feel drawn into this show whenever I watch, and I felt completely detached from the ending scene.

Edit: I do like the thought of the bodies being unidentifiable and Walt slipping his watch on one of the people's wrist, dropping his glasses in the pool, and putting personal ID on the other person.

Edit 2: I just reread that and it doesn't seem very plausible, but neither did that ending plane crash :lol We'll see

 

[maharg]

Yeah I'm not at all convinced they'll make it so Walt understands he 'caused' the crash. I'm not even sure how that would happen.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Yeah... I really didn't feel the plane crash. It wasn't laaaaaaamee, but it wasn't anywhere near good.

 

[Spotless Mind]

i know what you mean here, but here's a thought: maybe they won't let walt make the connection, he never knows that he was responsible, and the whole thing is just kept as dramatic irony. i'm perfectly satisfied with that, i like how they summed up his selfish actions with a cataclysmic event that he may never feel the effects of, but we see them loud and clear. maybe he needs another season to see the effects of his work

Yeah, maybe they won't go there. I'd much rather they keep it as a sort of dramatic irony, as you said. I don't think it would be hard to get him to realize a connection if they wanted to go that direction though. The writers had Walt conveniently run into Jane's father at the bar in the episode before after all.

Even without having this event on Walt's conscience, i still feel it is far beyond the scope of the show and extremely disappointing.

 

[maharg]

It would take Walt finding out all of the following for him to piece it together:
- That the flight crashed because of an air traffic controller losing his concentration
- That the ATC who failed was the guy he met at the bar (and he has to remember Q)
- That Q was Jane's father

I think if he finds all those things out, it will strain the shows credibility for me.

 

[Ashhong]

Not at all. All the newspaper has to say is:

air traffic controller screwed up
controllers daughter died of an overdose whatever months ago

a BIG story like this in Albequerque would surely have details. if it just included Janes name, Walter will make an instant connection. i think this is almost definitely going to happen.

i really dont understand how some of you cant understand why some of US are disappointed. they built this shit up with what, 4-5 episodes showing destruction and death outside of WALTS HOUSE. that just screams epic finale. for it to be just a plane crash that he may (or may not) be affected by is just a little disappointing.

 

[maharg]

You'll forgive me if I don't take someone's word for it that something will DEFINITELY happen on a show when they apparently weren't in tune enough with the writers to see what DEFINITELY did happen coming.

And I said I understand why people are upset. I just am not myself.

 

[joshcryer]

2 planes crashing as an indirect result of Walt choosing to watch Jane suffocate and the debris landing in Walt's pool right in front of his eyes isn't improbable?

No more improbable than a person with perfect health and straight edge their whole existance getting lung cancer. No more improbable than a meth head who escapes your DEA brothers grasp winding up being your go to guy. No more improbable than your DEA brother in law finding exactly where you've been taken by your previous drug dealer who got busted (Tuco). No more improbable than Jesse getting free money from the ATM machine after it crushes someones head (despite them having banged on it all night), and then that death resulting in Jesse himself becoming rich. No more improbable than having a very cute ass neighbor girl who just so happens to have been a drug addict (while you yourself am a drug dealer). The list goes on and on and on but I'm too tired to explain to you just how far out there this show is. It is by no means "realistic." The coincidences are enormous, the happenstance is what drives the show.

Note that real life *is* full of concidences, but not this many, real life lacks such rich narrative, so the coincidences are necessary.

It would take Walt finding out all of the following for him to piece it together:
- That the flight crashed because of an air traffic controller losing his concentration
- That the ATC who failed was the guy he met at the bar (and he has to remember Q)
- That Q was Jane's father

I think if he finds all those things out, it will strain the shows credibility for me.

Why? What? They're going to do an investigation. He has to find out. Something blew up over his house. They'll even say "Flight controller distraught after daughters death." I don't see why this is a big deal.

Now I can see Walt watching TV only for the phone to ring and him walk away as they show the picture of the flight controller or something. It could go that way. But they have to address this next season otherwise *I* will be upset.

A plane doesn't just crash in the sky above your house without *reasons* for it. If we're to believe Walt wouldn't care and wouldn't want to know, then that would be the real stretch here.

 

[duderon]

I doubt the airline company would disclose the identity of the air traffic controller that accidentally killed 300 people to the press.

 

[Ashhong]

You'll forgive me if I don't take someone's word for it that something will DEFINITELY happen on a show when they apparently weren't in tune enough with the writers to see what DEFINITELY did happen coming.

And I said I understand why people are upset. I just am not myself.

well i wasnt asking for you to take my word, i was just pointing out the logic behind it after you said that it just isnt realistic to happen. also, it goes both ways. did you see the ending coming?

and i also wasnt directing my last thing at you. there are others that are like "OMG HOW CAN YOU BE DISAPPOINTED?!"

I doubt the airline company would disclose the identity of the air traffic controller that accidentally killed 300 people to the press.

dont know much about this kind of stuff, but wouldnt he maybe be prosecuted or something like that? you cant let 2 planes crash into each other and not face any consequences.

 

[Spotless Mind]

No more improbable than a person with perfect health and straight edge their whole existance getting lung cancer. No more improbable than a meth head who escapes your DEA brothers grasp winding up being your go to guy. No more improbable than your DEA brother in law finding exactly where you've been taken by your previous drug dealer who got busted (Tuco). No more improbable than Jesse getting free money from the ATM machine after it crushes someones head (despite them having banged on it all night), and then that death resulting in Jesse himself becoming rich. No more improbable than having a very cute ass neighbor girl who just so happens to have been a drug addict (while you yourself am a drug dealer). The list goes on and on and on but I'm too tired to explain to you just how far out there this show is. It is by no means "realistic." The coincidences are enormous, the happenstance is what drives the show.

Note that real life *is* full of concidences, but not this many, real life lacks such rich narrative, so the coincidences are necessary.

I'm not acting like this show is some ultra realistic drama, but there is a big difference between the narrative conveniences you mentioned and the direction they took in this finale. I take no issue with any of those, because they were grounded in some sort of reality and weren't foreshadowed as some huge personal event for the characters all season long. I used the wrong word when i said "twist" in my other post. It was obvious where they were heading with it from the opening, but it didn't come across any less contrived to me.

I commend the writers for having the forethought to do something like this and stick to their guns, though. I appreciate what they did, even though it didn't exactly work for me. I'm sure it will sit better once i see where they head with it next season and it sinks in.

Also : Give Cranston the emmy right now. Fucking stunning performance all season long.

 

[duderon]

dont know much about this kind of stuff, but wouldnt he maybe be prosecuted or something like that? you cant let 2 planes crash into each other and not face any consequences.

Yeah, this would fall under negligence. I'm no law student, but I believe the airline would most likely be liable first and foremost, as this event would be foreseeable. It would be in their best interest to prevent a grieving air traffic controller from working before he/she is in a right state of mind.

edit: Plus the airline has the deep pockets.

 

[maharg]

I don't remember any individual ever being singled out in the media coverage of any plane crash I've ever been aware of. Even 9/11 was scant on details of the individuals involved.

I honestly can't actually imagine Walt watching TV for the news at this point. It just doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would engage him, even if the planes did blow up over his house. He lives in a whole different world now.

(not saying that's a premise for my opinion that the pieces are unlikely to fall together for Walt. I actually think the weak link is him finding out the connection between Q and Jane.)

 

[Ashhong]

i dont read or watch the news much, so you guys might be right on that one. but 2 commercial airliners crashing on right above you and parts of it landing on your house? even walt has to be affected and curious.

that reminds me, didnt it show Walts glasses being part of the evidence and stuff? are we to assume it was just random glasses now?

 

[maharg]

I think there's still a bit more we haven't seen.

 

[Destructo Spin]

I doubt walt will pretend to be one of the victims. What would be the chances of catching a plane, having a middair collision, and your body landing in your own back yard.

I thought the season was amazing. The finale struck the right chord with me too. I really enjoyed watching Cranston squirm behind his sons monologue. And something about the horrific nature of the ending, the eerie and subtle music, before the long focus on Walt sitting by his pool and BOOM. Awesome. The brutality of what happened really struck me.

Can't wait for next season. It seems like many of you put too much levity on the flash forwards, they never gripped me that much to be honest...

 

[xbhaskarx]

I doubt walt will pretend to be one of the victims. What would be the chances of catching a plane, having a middair collision, and your body landing in your own back yard.

WTF, who suggested that was even the remotest of possibilities? :lol

 

[Ashhong]

:lol :lol seriously what? what a weird train of thought. i dont think anybody ever would consider that. :lol

 

[AlternativeUlster]

:lol What the hell? That would be just fucking odd. It's like saying you don't expect Jesse to fall in love with an ostrich or some bizarro thing like that.

 

[teepo]

i think he's responding to the supposed leak of the plot for season 3's that i have seen mentioned elsewhere.

 

[dave is ok]

They just started brainstorming for S3.

I don't think the entire plot either exists

And I'll defend the plane crash until my dying breath, I thought it was an excellent way to end the season - and to show the devestating outcome of Walts actions without laying more guilt on him

 

[Kastro]

Wow, I just finished this season and I can't believe I see so many people complaining about it. It was fucking amazing. How do people take the final 5 minutes and turn into a "bullshit copout ending" just because the twist wasn't what they expected? Nothing about the ending was a "cop out". Ugh.

Best show on TV by far.

 

[Ventrue]

Wow, I just finished this season and I can't believe I see so many people complaining about it. It was fucking amazing. How do people take the final 5 minutes and turn into a "bullshit copout ending" just because the twist wasn't what they expected? Nothing about the ending was a "cop out". Ugh.

Best show on TV by far.

I had no expectations for the twist. It's just a complete deus ex machina.

 

[Kastro]

How? Do explain.

 

[maharg]

It can't really be a deus ex machinas if no problems were actually solved.

 

[gdt]

I've had a couple of weeks to think about it, so here it is.

I have no problem with the actual crash. It's an way ok to show how Walt affects the universe/karma in ways he may never find out. However, I agree with Spotless Mind (omg) that the drug house scene dealt with that better.

The bother is all the buildup, especially in that we ALL thought two of our characters was going to die. Frankly, I expected more as a resolution to the buildup.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

eh... i guess it's an arguable deus ex machina. it was assumed that fate was bound via flashback and some deaths would occur, probably at walt's place. and then LOL AIRPLANE CRASH

i'd call it a post modern deus ex machina

 

[Kastro]

In a thread full of people with Lost icons we have cries of Deus Ex Machina because of a plane crash? Interesting

Even without the plane crash I don't see how anyone could be let down by the ending.. the drama was superb and Season 3 was set up excellently.

 

[maharg]

There was no magic, no god, nothing supernatural, and even the claims of improbable coincidence are a little overblown (the major coincidence is them meeting, which is both explainable and not relevant to the chain of events). On top of that, as I said, no problems were solved. Battlestar ended with a deus ex machina literally by definition, this did not. I think it's a bit of an abuse of the term to suggest this was one.

I'm not sure why you think it's post-modern either, but that term is so weighted and messy to begin with I'm not going to argue it. But I do think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest fast-forwards are post modern.

 

[gdt]

In a thread full of people with Lost icons we have cries of Deus Ex Machina because of a plane crash? Interesting

I haven't called it a Deus Ex Machina at all.

 

[Blader]

In a thread full of people with Lost icons we have cries of Deus Ex Machina because of a plane crash? Interesting

They're completely different shows with completely different expectations of their writing.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

I'm not sure why you think it's post-modern either, but that term is so weighted and messy to begin with I'm not going to argue it. But I do think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest fast-forwards are post modern.

lol i was kidding about that

 

[Ventrue]

How? Do explain.

Technically, it doesn't solve any problems but it does come out of nowhere.

I think my bigger problem is that it completely destroys realistic consequences in the show. The result of Walt's actions is just so random and arbitrary that it doesn't really reflect on him at all, it's like a Rube Goldberg machine of moral consequences.

Breaking Bad is hardly 'realistic', but it's about willing suspension of disbelief. I can believe the unusual circumstances of the show, because it's grounded in fairly reasonable things happening. Walt's secret criminal work jeopardises his family life. Okay. That is realistic. Walt's inaction in saving someone's life leads to a plane crash. What?

It means that any action can have more or less any consequence and the decisions of the characters are no longer important.

EDIT:
For the record I'm not a fan of Lost, for similar reasons.

EDIT:
Yes, there's no magic or anything like that, but it's just completely out of left field. They could just as easily say that Jane's father worked for the CDC and held a deadly, highly contagious strain of ebola which he decided to release because he hated the world after Jane died, and then have the bodies in Walt's yard be ebola victims.

 

[Kastro]

Walt's inaction in saving someone's life leads to a plane crash. What?

Butterfly effect.. ever heard of it? Gilligan already explained that. Not a deus ex machina.

 

[Ventrue]

Butterfly effect.. ever heard of it? Gilligan already explained that. Not a deus ex machina.

Call it whatever, it's still completely arbitrary.

EDIT: Hell, how about next season Walt flaps his arms and it causes a hurricane half way around the world?

 

[Kastro]

You're focusing far too much on the plain crash.. The result of Walt's actions are random? What's random about his wife catching up with his lies and asking him to move out?

 

[Ventrue]

You're focusing far too much on the plain crash.. The result of Walt's actions are random? What's random about his wife catching up with his lies and asking him to move out?

I don't have a problem with that part (well, I thought it was a bit sudden with the flash forward but it's a minor quibble). The rest of the episode was fine. But the plane crash is a pretty significant event and I did not at all like it.

 

[maharg]

Yes, there's no magic or anything like that, but it's just completely out of left field. They could just as easily say that Jane's father worked for the CDC and held a deadly, highly contagious strain of ebola which he decided to release because he hated the world after Jane died, and then have the bodies in Walt's yard be ebola victims.

I'm sorry, but that would have been awesome. I'd be very excited for the next season if Walt was responsible for decimating humanity.

 

[hateradio]

I thought the end was great, I hadn't really focused on the dead body bags before, but like I said earlier.

Spoiler

The focus is on the end of his relationship, and how everything that he worked for is going to hell. 1) He doesn't have cancer, hopefully, anymore 2) His family left him 3) Jesse, rehab, and his unstable being may be a bad thing for them in the future.

 

[Meier]

Slowly making my way through S2 on my DVR. Holy shit at the tortoise/head scene! :O

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Yeah, that was quite a surprise...though I wish it hadn't meant that

Spoiler

Trejo's part was so small

. Third season, from what I gather, will be pretty dark and crazy.

 

[op_ivy]

Yeah, that was quite a surprise...though I wish it hadn't meant that

Spoiler

Trejo's part was so small

. Third season, from what I gather, will be pretty dark and crazy.

any word when it will start to air?

 

[Cornballer]

any word when it will start to air?

I'd guess S3 is going to start in early 2010. Wikipedia says March.

 

[OptimoPeach]

I finished this a few weeks ago, just wanted to say that I'm with the

Spoiler

plane crash was fucking stupid and beyond implausible camp

. I'm still looking forward to the third season, though.

Have they said if this will be the last one?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

any word when it will start to air?

Next year early, AFAIK. They're still shooting around town and at the studios.

Have they said if this will be the last one?

They want to continue it as long as they can. So, as long as ratings hold up, they should go further than just three.