D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
Quoted for the new page. Very well said, Wallach.Wallach said:
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Bungie's announcement canceled, confirming once again that E3 sucks
- Thread starter Kai
- Start date
Quite frankly, this situation is likely the result of miscommunication or under communication combined with some clashing egos which is a dangerous combination when talking about business relationships.
What probably should have happened, is that if MS decided to not proceed with the announcement (which as the publisher and financier of the project is their right), that should have been communicated to Bungie with hopefully a reasonable rationale, and together they should have come up with a new agreed upon reveal date (Leipzig, x08, TGS, etc). Then Bungie should have reset the countdown clock on the website instead of putting up the message about the cancellation. Bungie could have spun the previous hints as simply part of a larger tease.
IIRC, bungie made references to both E3 and PAX as potential reveal dates, so maybe both were options for the reveal and MS decided that E3 was not the place but Bungie felt otherwise.
We all scream bloody murder that MS pulled the announcement and dissed Bungie like that, but on the spectrum of unprofessionalism, it is really Bungie that acted more unprofessionally by outing the inner corporate workings of the relationship. By doing so, I really think this reveals some significant insight into the relationship between the senior management of the 2 companies.
What probably should have happened, is that if MS decided to not proceed with the announcement (which as the publisher and financier of the project is their right), that should have been communicated to Bungie with hopefully a reasonable rationale, and together they should have come up with a new agreed upon reveal date (Leipzig, x08, TGS, etc). Then Bungie should have reset the countdown clock on the website instead of putting up the message about the cancellation. Bungie could have spun the previous hints as simply part of a larger tease.
IIRC, bungie made references to both E3 and PAX as potential reveal dates, so maybe both were options for the reveal and MS decided that E3 was not the place but Bungie felt otherwise.
We all scream bloody murder that MS pulled the announcement and dissed Bungie like that, but on the spectrum of unprofessionalism, it is really Bungie that acted more unprofessionally by outing the inner corporate workings of the relationship. By doing so, I really think this reveals some significant insight into the relationship between the senior management of the 2 companies.
I don't understand why people are becoming so sensationalist. Ghaleon, there really was no reason to do what you did.
Microsoft cares about the image of the Halo series. It has to. It's a company. It likes profit. If it didn't care about Halo, the announcement would have been made.
The reason I say this is quite simple. MS clearly thought that their other games would be drowned out from a Halo announcement. It's true. No one would give a shit about the Gears of War 2 videos. Everyone would be spending hours trying to dissect the supposed Halo 4 trailer.
Then the other obvious reason. If Halo 4 is to be announced...why not have it take place on a better conference? Why not give it more personalized attention than lumping it with a fucking FF XIII announcement. MS wants the game to be the holy grail of the system.
A premature Halo 4 announcement was never the way to go if the announcement was Halo 4. A frickn countdown? Please.
And for all those that say MS fucked over Bungie. There is some truth to it. A last second cancellation is not very professional. However if the announcement involved some non Halo games then it shows one over looked thing:
MS really believe in Bungie. I mean it has to if a non Halo announcement was pushed to a later more suitable event.
But yes. Companies care about money. That involves proper marketing and if for some reason the execs at MS thought it better to delay the announcement then we can't really blame them. Would you blame an investment banker for his lack of loyalty if he changes companies for a better salary? It's how shit works.
Microsoft cares about the image of the Halo series. It has to. It's a company. It likes profit. If it didn't care about Halo, the announcement would have been made.
The reason I say this is quite simple. MS clearly thought that their other games would be drowned out from a Halo announcement. It's true. No one would give a shit about the Gears of War 2 videos. Everyone would be spending hours trying to dissect the supposed Halo 4 trailer.
Then the other obvious reason. If Halo 4 is to be announced...why not have it take place on a better conference? Why not give it more personalized attention than lumping it with a fucking FF XIII announcement. MS wants the game to be the holy grail of the system.
A premature Halo 4 announcement was never the way to go if the announcement was Halo 4. A frickn countdown? Please.
And for all those that say MS fucked over Bungie. There is some truth to it. A last second cancellation is not very professional. However if the announcement involved some non Halo games then it shows one over looked thing:
MS really believe in Bungie. I mean it has to if a non Halo announcement was pushed to a later more suitable event.
But yes. Companies care about money. That involves proper marketing and if for some reason the execs at MS thought it better to delay the announcement then we can't really blame them. Would you blame an investment banker for his lack of loyalty if he changes companies for a better salary? It's how shit works.
The Lamonster
Member
Eh, there comes a time when it's more important to uphold your own dignity rather than have your principles and community relationships trampled on by the Microsoft machine.dancmc said:
What were they supposed to tell their fans? LOL JUS KIDDING GUISE
But who did it honestly hurt? Some people here talk about the backlash of delaying the announcement and how it hurt the community. Yet you guys are the ones that are creating all the strife. If it is Halo 4, are any of you not going to buy it because of this? No. You're going to buy it if it turns out to be a great game. Most people will buy it whether it's a great game or not, simply because it's Halo 4. The only dignity lost is in the eye of the forum goers. If everyone here took a deep breath and said "okay, the announcement was delayed, let's just wait until we hear the full story or hear the announcement itself," everything would be okay. But a lot of people are making a situation out of nothing. It's like turning a mole hill into a mountain for no reason.The Lamonster said:
sableholic
Member
The Lamonster said:
Maybe just apologize and say the announcement has been moved to a later date without throwing anybody under the bus?
Maybe something a little less fervor inducing such as. "Due to unforeseen circumstances the announcement will have to be postponed. We sincerely apologize blah blah blah but best assured you won't be disappointed. We'll have more on when and where soon."The Lamonster said:
Edit: what sableholic said.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
sableholic said:
Pretty much. We can all blame Bungie, or we can blame Microsoft. As sad as I am in how things turned out, in the end, it's dead and done.
I just wish there was more clarification on when we can hear more.
JdFoX187 said:
Nobody is saying it hurts the title itself. It's simply disrespectful to the community and the studio. If Microsoft made the call to delay the announcement, then they should have stepped up and communicated that with everyone who was waiting and watching for the Bungie announcement that had been hyped for months. Instead, they scratched the studio from the conference schedule, stifled the release of any new information, and then forced the studio to run the damage control.
Bungie respects their fans. You know why? Because of the money. If you're a video game developer and you make a game and no one buys it, would you respect those people who snub their nose at it? Probably not. Now, would you respect all the people that buy your game? Sure. It's how the world works.Falagard said:
Microsoft, unlike Bungie, has more important things to worry about. Bungie's only job is to develop the game and get it ready to go. That's what video game development studios do. It's up to Microsoft to distribute and publicize the game. And since Microsoft has other games other than Bungie's titles, it has to decide whether to showcase the game or whether to keep it hidden until further notice. I don't think anyone is arguing how stupid it was to pull the plug at the last second, but it was still within their right.
Oh I'm sure they're upset. But hurt feelings are nothing. And by the time the game is released, I really don't think there'll be people protesting it saying "you remember back a couple years ago when Microsoft pushed back the reveal?" Everything being said is in the heat of the moment, nothing more.Wallach said:
I'm willing to withhold judgment and stop the blame game until I find out why it was delayed and what really happened. We don't know that right now. And that's why it's stupid to jump to conclusions.urk said:
AndersTheSwede
Member
joey_z said:
This reason makes no sense because these types of reveals are planned well in advance. MS has likely known for a month which games they would show at E3. You think just yesterday they thought "oh Halo4 might overshadow gears!" Nonsense. If they thought that then they would have planned separate showings. They wouldn't have planned showings at E3 if they thought that was a problem.
This was very much a last minute decision.
artredis1980
Banned
Falagard said:
i am assuming you dont own a 360?
Blakero said:
I think everyone understands how business works. We are awake.
Say there is this lottery, it's been going on for 3 months. You must get all 7 numbers correct to win. One number is drawn each week for seven weeks. 6 weeks go by and you have all six numbers matching, then 12 hours before the last number is called...
A letter saying that the lottery is cancelled because the the sponsers never wanted to give away the money yet.
Although not as life altering as a lottery
for some 
JdFoX187 said:
Doesn't change the fact that Microsoft was not out doing any salvaging public relations work. They simply made the call and sent the Bungie crew out to do clean up. All Mattrick was willing to reveal was that he felt the conference was so "loaded" that they didn't need to "get gamers excited." Do you think he was ignorant of the several month build up Bungie was conducting?
artredis1980
Banned
EazyB said:
The game does not look next gen enuff compared to Gears and Killzone?
JdFoX187 said:
I don't really like the reasoning that if a company merely bought the property or team and called it their own that it's not really "their game." Staff members come and go all the time, its really no different. The company sees a product with a lot of potential that embodies a similar design philosophy and they 'take it in' so to speak, and polish it up to their own standards.
The Lamonster
Member
Why do you think they pulled it then?AndersTheSwede said:
joey_z said:
Nothing to understand. Even if you discount the merit of the narrative surrounding the game and its marketing, and disregard the fact that this totally breaks the illusion Bungie was crafting, you should still be able to grasp the fact that the studio was ready to go, as indicated by their message, and that it was Microsoft's call to scrap the announcement. If that's the case, why is Bungie left holding the bag while Microsoft stays mum? Even when pressed, Microsoft won't comment and take responsibility.
dancmc said:
How is Bungie being unprofessional? Microsoft has known, or should have known, about this reveal for at least a month. Yet they wait until a few hours before hand to pull the plug? Something big changed yesterday afternoon. We don't know what that was, and maybe never will, that made MS decide that Bungie shouldn't go ahead with the announcement. The wheels had already been put in motion, though so Bungie had to give some type of reason for canceling the reveal. They'd been teasing it for a months and, being the community sensitive studio they are, thought their fans deserved as a good as reason as they could give us. They didn't out anything. It should be common knowledge for anyone posting in the Gaming section that publishers can control the flow of information about titles they are going to publish.
I don't know why MS canceled it, but I'm not going to assume that it's a stupid reason. We don't know. But since it was done so quick to the deadline, with such large prior knowledge, it can be easy to assume the worst. I won't. I'll give MS the benefit of the doubt, that they were looking out for the game's best interests. And until they inevitably announce it, I will sit patiently and wait.
The Lamonster
Member
BIG BROTHER SAYS IT'S IN OUR BEST INTERESTEazyB said:
AndersTheSwede
Member
The Lamonster said:
No idea. I've given up trying to fathom the workings of Redmond. But that particular reason doesn't make any sense, and if MS really did cancel it because of that then they are simply incompetent. I hope there is a reason that actually makes sense.
It's true. The pieces of the puzzle aren't coming together. Which is the very reason why I don't want to jump to conclusions.urk said:
Take Portal for example. Valve saw the work the team had did. Wasn't it like some kind of tech demo or flash game? They bought the team and gave them the money they needed to make it into a full-fledged game.Nikorasu said:
It'd be like me owning a publishing company. I have this friend who is writing a book which could be great, but he's having a hard time paying his bills to write it. I buy the rights to the book and pay off his bills. Does that mean it's my company's work? No, it's the work of the individual (or in this case, group) that originally conceived of the idea and started working.
urk said:
That is not entirely true. Don Mattrick did take responsibility for the decision. Bungie wasn't really left holding any bag as such. Mattrick spoke of the reason in interviews. You don't actually expect him to make an official press statement do you? That would kill any illusion Bungie was crafting. And Microsoft won't put the reason up on xbox.com or anything because that sort of doesn't make any sense as a lot of people don't follow this gaming community stuff and might be visiting the site just for general information.
Remember...it has only been a few hours since the cancellation. Mattrick has taken responsibility. I don't understand what you expect in such a short time period.
Whatever Bungie put up on the website was done because they were pissed off and thought the fans deserved to know the reason. But they weren't forced to clean up anything really.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
What are you talking about? Where did Don Mattrick take responsibility for the decision to cancel the announcement?joey_z said:
The Lamonster
Member
.Cocopjojo said:
[citation needed]
Oozer3993 said:
I agree that in the absence of perfect information, we will need to wait and see the timing and venue for the unveiling of this new Bungie project. I have certainly enough to look forward too this fall, that their next project is far enough off that I have plenty of time to get hyped for it. My only point is that if there are good relationships and good communication, that this would have been handled better. I feel that by Bungie posting the note on the website, they publicly aired their frustration. All of this should have been kept behind closed doors. Bungie could have simply stated that the build up was a tease (even their website said "expect delays") and that the true reveal will be at y date.
To add another crackpot theory on to the heap:
I think MS was expecting Sony to reveal something big during their conference. Rockstar's big PS3 exclusive or something similar (btw, they haven't revealed that yet, have they? It's not LA Noire is it?). Bungie has made it a point to assert themselves as independent so they probably declined having it at the MS conference, instead keeping it for themselves. When Sony didn't reveal the big gun, MS didn't need the big Bungie reveal anymore. They could save it for later, so they scrapped the announcement.
Even more crackpot theory:
MS learned just yesterday that Bungie had met with Sony or Nintendo about producing something for one of their handhelds. This would scoot past the "first refusal" clause since MS doesn't have a handheld and wouldn't publish something for a competitor, and thus would be forced to refuse. MS, hearing about this, retaliated by canceling the announcement.
It could have been, but I think Bungie is just as frustrated as us and wanted some marginal bit of payback. Purposefully saying "our publisher" and then clarifying who they meant was their slight jab at MS. I don't think that's all that harsh a retaliation. They didn't give the specific reason or go into depth about how angry this has made them.
They'd already teased the "Expect Delays" line in regards to the Superintendent on their forums. Their fans would have known they were being jerked around and just gotten pissed.
I think MS was expecting Sony to reveal something big during their conference. Rockstar's big PS3 exclusive or something similar (btw, they haven't revealed that yet, have they? It's not LA Noire is it?). Bungie has made it a point to assert themselves as independent so they probably declined having it at the MS conference, instead keeping it for themselves. When Sony didn't reveal the big gun, MS didn't need the big Bungie reveal anymore. They could save it for later, so they scrapped the announcement.
Even more crackpot theory:
MS learned just yesterday that Bungie had met with Sony or Nintendo about producing something for one of their handhelds. This would scoot past the "first refusal" clause since MS doesn't have a handheld and wouldn't publish something for a competitor, and thus would be forced to refuse. MS, hearing about this, retaliated by canceling the announcement.
dancmc said:
It could have been, but I think Bungie is just as frustrated as us and wanted some marginal bit of payback. Purposefully saying "our publisher" and then clarifying who they meant was their slight jab at MS. I don't think that's all that harsh a retaliation. They didn't give the specific reason or go into depth about how angry this has made them.
They'd already teased the "Expect Delays" line in regards to the Superintendent on their forums. Their fans would have known they were being jerked around and just gotten pissed.
sableholic
Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
They are the publisher, they have the right to cancel the announcement. Bungie however doesn't have to go ahead and say the publisher decided to cancel the announcement. I don't care who decided to cancel it. All they had to do was apologize, say the reveal has been moved to a later date, and let that be that.
soldat7 said:
By stating "However, those plans were just changed by our publisher" they basically did. Was that line necessary in the letter? I don't believe it was. They could have expressed their disappointment and unhappiness with the way things turned out, apologized, and said the reveal would be coming later than originally planned all without bringing up MS at all.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
Basically, they should have fallen on the sword for Microsoft?sableholic said: