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[Falagard]

I agree that in the absence of perfect information, we will need to wait and see the timing and venue for the unveiling of this new Bungie project. I have certainly enough to look forward too this fall, that their next project is far enough off that I have plenty of time to get hyped for it. My only point is that if there are good relationships and good communication, that this would have been handled better. I feel that by Bungie posting the note on the website, they publicly aired their frustration. All of this should have been kept behind closed doors. Bungie could have simply stated that the build up was a tease (even their website said "expect delays") and that the true reveal will be at y date.

Why the hell would they want to do that? The build up was obviously not a tease, and the community would have gone apeshit that there was a countdown which led to nothing. As Bungie said, it's not their style. Bungie does foreplay, but the build up always leads to a "happy ending". If it wasn't their fault that the planned reveal was canceled, they shouldn't have to take the blame for it.

And if they weren't to blame, and they wanted to make sure people knew it wasn't their fault, their only choice is to say who canceled the reveal - the publisher.

 

[The Lamonster]

Basically, they should have fallen on the sword for Microsoft?

Who cares? Why would Bungie hide who's responsible for the cancellation? It doesn't make sense at all.

Exactly. It's like Luke said, "Not our style."

 

[Deleted member 21120]

Exactly. It's like Luke said, "Not our style."

Actually, I think Luke said that in response to someone claiming that the Harold Ryan letter was a hoax.

 

[TheKurgan]

To add another crackpot theory on to the heap:

I think MS was expecting Sony to reveal something big during their conference. Rockstar's big PS3 exclusive or something similar (btw, they haven't revealed that yet, have they? It's not LA Noire is it?). Bungie has made it a point to assert themselves as independent so they probably declined having it at the MS conference, instead keeping it for themselves. When Sony didn't reveal the big gun, MS didn't need the big Bungie reveal anymore. They could save it for later, so they scrapped the announcement.

Even more crackpot theory:

MS learned just yesterday that Bungie had met with Sony or Nintendo about producing something for one of their handhelds. This would scoot past the "first refusal" clause since MS doesn't have a handheld and wouldn't publish something for a competitor, and thus would be forced to refuse. MS, hearing about this, retaliated by canceling the announcement.

I vote for crackpot theory #1

 

[jacobs34]

I can understand why some people are upset, but don't worry, their announcement will probably end up being made sooner rather than later.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

By stating "However, those plans were just changed by our publisher" they basically did. Was that line necessary in the letter? I don't believe it was. They could have expressed their disappointment and unhappiness with the way things turned out, apologized, and said the reveal would be coming later than originally planned all without bringing up MS at all.

I'm pretty confident that there isn't any contractual obligation on Bungie's part to conceal the source of product announcement cancelations.

As such Bungie, as a developer who cares about community relations, is fully within their rights to explain the situation and who is responsible.

If MS can't take the heat then maybe they should exercise more due diligence.

 

[sableholic]

Who cares? Why would Bungie hide who's responsible for the cancellation? It doesn't make sense at all.

Oh I don't know maybe to stay on a nice working relationship with their publisher. What does Bungie gain by telling us that Microsoft was the one who canceled it, in fact what does anyone gain? They have caused drama that could have easily been avoided. It's not about hiding who was responsible, its about not airing things to the public that don't need to be aired.

Basically, they should have fallen on the sword for Microsoft?

Fallen on what sword? How many people do you think are genuinely mad that the countdown led to nothing? Of those mad how many are more mad that Microsoft canceled the announcement then they are about the announcement being canceled. If they hadn't mentioned the publisher in any way I guarantee this thread would have far less replies and angry responses. I think people are very understanding when it comes to unforeseen complications and that sometimes things just don't go the way you want, but giving up someone as the fault for it just doesn't help in my opinion.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

I vote for crackpot theory #1

But following that same train of thought, why not take the opportunity to absolutely bury Sony under the weight of a fantastic conference? Sony didn't reveal much of any consequence, but all MS revealed is new (great) system features. A actual (gasp) game announcement would have capitalized on Sony/Nintendo's poor showings.

 

[artredis1980]

4:30 PDT at IGN Live and Gamespot Live


BELIEVE......

 

[dancmc]

Why the hell would they want to do that? The build up was obviously not a tease, and the community would have gone apeshit that there was a countdown which led to nothing. As Bungie said, it's not their style. Bungie does foreplay, but the build up always leads to a "happy ending". If it wasn't their fault that the planned reveal was canceled, they shouldn't have to take the blame for it.

And if they weren't to blame, and they wanted to make sure people knew it wasn't their fault, their only choice is to say who canceled the reveal - the publisher.

I see what you're saying. But in the end, Bungie and MS will have to work together for the near term, and both the cancellation of the announcement and the note on Bungie.net just add new fire to what might already be a rocky relationship.

I understand their desire to let fans know that cancelling the reveal was not their fault, but quite frankly, IMHO the note was in poor taste. As many have said, the only real damage from this situation is likely to the MS/Bungie relationship

 

[Zezboob]

Oh my god MS canceled the game !!!


What ? They only canceled an announcement ?


Seriously guys, when I see so much hate about MS... whoa, they probably canceled with a good reason. Maybe just for a strategic reason, but eh, it's their work. But one thing is sure, they didn't make it just for the pleasure to screw Bungie or the fans. No one wins with it.


Now, it was not smart from Luke to say that the publisher is MS, and it was totally stupid from Mattrick to say that it was about a new Halo.
There was a lack of preparation in their planning, something changed unexpectedly.


But this story took oversized proportions IMO.

 

[Oozer3993]

But following that same train of thought, why not take the opportunity to absolutely bury Sony under the weight of a fantastic conference? Sony didn't reveal much of any consequence, but all MS revealed is new (great) system features. A actual (gasp) game announcement would have capitalized on Sony/Nintendo's poor showings.

Maybe the announcement included a CG trailer and, seeing the backlash Sony took (again) for doing those, they held off? I don't know. It's crackpot for a reason lol.

Now, it was not smart from Luke to say that the publisher is MS, and it was totally stupid from Mattrick to say that it was about a new Halo.
There was a lack of preparation in their planning, something changed unexpectedly.

When did Mattrick ever say it was about Halo? I still haven't seen a source for any comments from him. And Luke only said "Microsoft is our publisher" because people thought they had completely jumped ship and were making something for PS3. He wanted to nip that in the bud before it got to big. It didn't hurt that it also cast some eyes away from them.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

You guys are losing perspective. Sure MS has the "right" to cancel it. But outside of the game simply not being ready to be shown, there's no bloody reason to. They want it to be some megaton announcement for later? What? Nobody actually gives a shit about stuff like that. I promise.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

Oh I don't know maybe to stay on a nice working relationship with their publisher. What does Bungie gain by telling us that Microsoft was the one who canceled it, in fact what does anyone gain?

Oh I don't know, maybe not angering their fan base on account of pointless teases? Bungie goes to great lengths to build communities around their games, and these types of screw up's damage those efforts.

 

[UltimaPooh]

Back to normal now.

EDIT: Gasp, but wait an SI logo still lurks.

 

[Proelite]

I just disagree over the conspiracies that the publisher did this to spite the developer, or what they did was unethical and completely uncommon.

 

[open_mouth_]

If it was a halo 4-type announcement I don't think canceling it now to have a bigger impact by announcing it down the road is worth hurting relationships with Bungie. Microsoft has to think big picture here. But again, we don't know exactly what the announcement was so we're all just speculating at this point.

 

[Proelite]

Maybe it was Halo 3 PC? Oh god I would die for that.

1080p 4xAA all lighting and shadows on my next uber comp.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

I see what you're saying. But in the end, Bungie and MS will have to work together for the near term, and both the cancellation of the announcement and the note on Bungie.net just add new fire to what might already be a rocky relationship.

If this leads to a rocky relationship it is MS' doing, not Bungie's for explaining the situation.

MS showing calousness to Bungie's reveals does far more damage than Bungie saying who did it.

 

[TDG]

Oh I don't know maybe to stay on a nice working relationship with their publisher. What does Bungie gain by telling us that Microsoft was the one who canceled it, in fact what does anyone gain? They have caused drama that could have easily been avoided. It's not about hiding who was responsible, its about not airing things to the public that don't need to be aired.

What they have to gain is that their fans are happy with them because they were open and honest with us. Except for crazies who think that they should protect MS for some odd reason?

Besides, what exactly does Bungie have to lose? What, will MS shun Bungie? That'd work out well.

 

[sableholic]

Oh I don't know, maybe not angering their fan base on account of pointless teases? Bungie goes to great lengths to build communities around their games, and these types of screw up's damage those efforts.

So you think the fanbase is less angry knowing that MS canceled the announcement then they would have been just knowing it was canceled?

And anyways you make it sound like the people are so angry it will screw up the bungie community for the next game they release which I know for damn sure I won't remember about this stuff when I'm playing the next bungie game.

What they have to gain is that their fans are happy with them because they were open and honest with us. Except for crazies who think that they should protect MS for some odd reason?

Besides, what exactly does Bungie have to lose? What, will MS shun Bungie? That'd work out well.

ugh. I'm done with this discussion. It has nothing to do with protecting MS. If a project I'm leading on get's delayed I don't immediately say it was bob's fault knowing full well it won't change the fact that its delayed, especially if me and bob will be working together quite a bit. And what do they have to lose? Having a rocky relationship with their publisher can't be something they enjoy.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

So you think the fanbase is less angry knowing that MS canceled the announcement then they would have been just knowing it was canceled?

Yes. They know they weren't being jerked around on purpose and that things happened outside of Bungie's control. Bungie was the one running the reveal page, they were the ones that would have taken the full hit of responsibility if they just said: canceled.

 

[fin]

This thread is about:

a)Why people are upset

b)Why people arn't upset

c)The people that are upset explaining why they are upset

d)The people that aren't upset explaining that there isn't anything to be upset about.

e)What happened

?

Spoiler

Cause I don't really know anymore.

 

[sableholic]

Yes. They know they weren't being jerked around on purpose and that things happened outside of Bungie's control. Bungie was the one running the reveal page, they were the ones that would have taken the full hit of responsibility if they just said: canceled.

Did I say to just put up a page that said canceled?
Here is what I said since you didn't read it the first time:
"They could have expressed their disappointment and unhappiness with the way things turned out, apologized, and said the reveal would be coming later than originally planned all without bringing up MS at all."

They are apologizing, stating they didnt mean to jerk people around. People initially would have been mad, but I can guarantee it wouldn't be the scale of anger that is coming because they said MS decided to cancel the reveal.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

Did I say to just put up a page that said canceled?
Here is what I said since you didn't read it the first time:
"They could have expressed their disappointment and unhappiness with the way things turned out, apologized, and said the reveal would be coming later than originally planned all without bringing up MS at all."

They are apologizing, stating they didnt mean to jerk people around. People initially would have been mad, but I can guarantee it wouldn't be the scale of anger that is coming because they said MS decided to cancel the reveal.

I don't get why you are so against Bungie stating who canceled the announcement? You say it damages their relationship, but it is MS' callously canceling everything hours beforehand that does the damage. You think Bungie explaining the situation does more damage than MS actual decision? That doesn't make a damn bit of sense. Bungie has every right to say who is responsible, and MS has every responsibility to take the hit, it IS their decision after all.

 

[Walshicus]

4:30 PDT at IGN Live and Gamespot Live


BELIEVE......

Aren't you only supposed to make that kind of claim on pain of... repercussions if wrong?

 

[Xenon]

I find it hard to fault Bungie here. Its well know how much work companies put into getting ready to showcase something at E3. To have it all tossed in the waste basket by a partner had to be very frustrating. It would be different if they were still a first party. They would just have to take it. Now, they dont.

That said, they also have to understand they are a much different position in the industry than they were before MS took them under their wing. Last thing you want to do is fingerpoint at the people who write you nice fat checks. I think their reaction could have been a little more diplomatic. Im sure this ordeal will be a learning experience for the company.

 

[jergrah]

For what its worth, part of an email exchange with an old co-worker who now works at MS:

"I think it was about ability to produce for multiple platforms. I don’t have much more information (of course I have a space marine holding a gun to my head right now).

Ya, the “Fall Flash” team and avatars team are just down the hall. They have been working their butts off, and I think it is pretty cool."

 

[urk]

That is not entirely true. Don Mattrick did take responsibility for the decision. Bungie wasn't really left holding any bag as such. Mattrick spoke of the reason in interviews.

No he didn't. He dodged. When asked he said they had a lot of great content and didn't need to excite the fans. Of course, the fanbase had already been excited for months.

Interviewer: "So what's up with Bungie? They said they had some stuff ready and now their site's been updated stating Microsoft pulled the plug."

Don Juan Mattrick: "Yeah, they're understandably upset. Bungie is an amazing studio. They've been one of our pillars since the beginning. You know, we should have made the decision much earlier. It wasn't fair to the studio or to the fans who have been anticipating news from Bungie at our conference to make that call so late in the process. Sometimes things happen and you have to react quickly. But don't get too worried, Bungie's working on an amazing project and we hope to share it with you all very soon."

 

[frontieruk]

Bungie respects their fans. You know why? Because of the money. If you're a video game developer and you make a game and no one buys it, would you respect those people who snub their nose at it? Probably not. Now, would you respect all the people that buy your game? Sure. It's how the world works.

Yeah cos EA respects their fans cos of the mountains of monies they make (improving) repackaging their titles every year.... </sarcasm>

Bungies rabid (sorry they are) fans go back to Marathon/Myth so the company has always managed to maintain a strong relationship with the community around their titles. Money makes the world go round but a bit of love makes people remember you.

 

[Nikorasu]

Maybe it was Halo 3 PC? Oh god I would die for that.

1080p 4xAA all lighting and shadows on my next uber comp.

Don't forget GFW LIVE and all the arbitrary server restrictions it entails!

 

[Kibbles]

No he didn't. He dodged. When asked he said they had a lot of great content and didn't need to excite the fans. Of course, the fanbase had already been excited for months.

Interviewer: "So what's up with Bungie? They said they had some stuff ready and now their site's been updated stating Microsoft pulled the plug."

Don Juan Mattrick: "Yeah, they're understandably upset. Bungie is an amazing studio. They've been one of our pillars since the beginning. You know, we should have made the decision much earlier. It wasn't fair to the studio or to the fans who have been anticipating news from Bungie at our conference to make that call so late in the process. Sometimes things happen and you have to react quickly. But don't get too worried, Bungie's working on an amazing project and we hope to share it with you all very soon."

Very soon my ass.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

No he didn't. He dodged. When asked he said they had a lot of great content and didn't need to excite the fans. Of course, the fanbase had already been excited for months.

Interviewer: "So what's up with Bungie? They said they had some stuff ready and now their site's been updated stating Microsoft pulled the plug."

Don Juan Mattrick: "Yeah, they're understandably upset. Bungie is an amazing studio. They've been one of our pillars since the beginning. You know, we should have made the decision much earlier. It wasn't fair to the studio or to the fans who have been anticipating news from Bungie at our conference to make that call so late in the process. Sometimes things happen and you have to react quickly. But don't get too worried, Bungie's working on an amazing project and we hope to share it with you all very soon."

Urk, where is that from?

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

I was always under the impression that Bungie's announcement was to be made at PAX, didn't Luke say that fans of Bungie should try and make their way to PAX this year recently, before the e3 stuff hit?

Perhaps the original plan was pax, MS wanted to have them at E3 'just in case', after Ninty and Sony's conferences they decided that they didn't have to show their hand just yet. They still have Bungie's project.

And Forza 3.

And Ninja Blade.

 

[FrankT]

For what its worth, part of an email exchange with an old co-worker who now works at MS:

"I think it was about ability to produce for multiple platforms. I don’t have much more information (of course I have a space marine holding a gun to my head right now).

Ya, the “Fall Flash” team and avatars team are just down the hall. They have been working their butts off, and I think it is pretty cool."

Well, if that is the case and we know Bungie is working on a Halo game as Mattrick already confirmed (although this may or may not be said game) and we know that Microsoft is the publisher per Luke then we all know that would mean at least something to do with the PC in the vey least.

 

[szaromir]

I was always under the impression that Bungie's announcement was to be made at PAX, didn't Luke say that fans of Bungie should try and make their way to PAX this year recently, before the e3 stuff hit?

Perhaps the original plan was pax, MS wanted to have them at E3 'just in case', after Ninty and Sony's conferences they decided that they didn't have to show their hand just yet. They still have Bungie's project.

No, PAX was for fans to have hands=on on this new title.

 

[BakedPigeon]

If it was a halo 4-type announcement I don't think canceling it now to have a bigger impact by announcing it down the road is worth hurting relationships with Bungie. Microsoft has to think big picture here. But again, we don't know exactly what the announcement was so we're all just speculating at this point.

It will not be a halo 4 announcement... no way no how.

 

[pswii60]

No he didn't. He dodged. When asked he said they had a lot of great content and didn't need to excite the fans. Of course, the fanbase had already been excited for months.

Interviewer: "So what's up with Bungie? They said they had some stuff ready and now their site's been updated stating Microsoft pulled the plug."

Don Juan Mattrick: "Yeah, they're understandably upset. Bungie is an amazing studio. They've been one of our pillars since the beginning. You know, we should have made the decision much earlier. It wasn't fair to the studio or to the fans who have been anticipating news from Bungie at our conference to make that call so late in the process. Sometimes things happen and you have to react quickly. But don't get too worried, Bungie's working on an amazing project and we hope to share it with you all very soon."

Where'd ya copy and paste that from?

 

[Kuroyume]

Why would Microsoft ask Bungie to not show off Waterworks? The more I think about it I figure that maybe the execs at Microsoft are fans of Ivory Tower and will not allow them to show the next pack until that's in there.

I'm not angry, but I was annoyed for like 5 minutes this morning. Oh well...

 

[TDG]

ugh. I'm done with this discussion. It has nothing to do with protecting MS. If a project I'm leading on get's delayed I don't immediately say it was bob's fault knowing full well it won't change the fact that its delayed, especially if me and bob will be working together quite a bit. And what do they have to lose? Having a rocky relationship with their publisher can't be something they enjoy.

It does have to do with protecting Microsoft. If Bungie just said "oh, j/k, nevermind, not announcing now," after the months of build-up, all their fans would be pissed at them, while MS would get the free pass, even though MS were the ones who decided to pull the plug. That's not fair to Bungie at all, they've been planning this for ages, they should not have to take the heat for it being cancelled. And about having a rocky relationship with MS, open your eyes. They already do.

God, this thread has been a nightmare. From the hairbrained theories about the cancellation being fake, to the odd conspiracy theories, to insisting this was Bungie's fault, to insisting Bungie reveal the publisher, to insisting Bungie shouldn't have revealed the publisher, to the people who claim this was part of an MS plan to spite Bungie, to the people who popped in to laugh at the disappointed fans, to the helpful souls who popped in to let us all know that anyone could make Halo, it seems that many people have just entered this thread to try to look more uninformed and ignorant than the previous posters. What a mess.

 

[urk]

Urk, where is that from?

It's a hypothetical. I made it up.

 

[BakedPigeon]

God, this thread has been a nightmare. From the hairbrained theories about the cancellation being fake, to the odd conspiracy theories, to insisting this was Bungie's fault, to insisting Bungie reveal the publisher, to insisting Bungie shouldn't have revealed the publisher, to the people who claim this was part of an MS plan to spite Bungie, to the people who popped in to laugh at the disappointed fans, to the helpful souls who popped in to let us all know that anyone could make Halo, it seems that many people have just entered this thread to try to look more uninformed and ignorant than the previous posters. What a mess.

this

 

[FFChris]

I hate MS's current countering strategy they seem to have at the moment.

It seems they have a load of stuff they could show to the public, but they want to drag it out to save ammunition to counter Sony's big announcements.

They should just show their hand. Sure their current lineup is sweet but fans want to see what's up next. We want Alan Wake, Halo Chronicles, Bungie's new project and whatever the hell Ninja Blade may or may not be. This current strategy just ends up annoying gamers and MS's partners.

 

[Zezboob]

When did Mattrick ever say it was about Halo? I still haven't seen a source for any comments from him. And Luke only said "Microsoft is our publisher" because people thought they had completely jumped ship and were making something for PS3. He wanted to nip that in the bud before it got to big. It didn't hurt that it also cast some eyes away from them.

I read it here.
Did I miss something ? So much things are happening that I can't keep the rhythm :/


And about the reasons for Luke, who really thought that Bungie would completely jump ship ? The last 20 pages are about how much Bungie is loyal to its fans ! Does not compute.
If Harold Ryan took the precaution to not name the publisher it was for a good reason.


Well, I really hope that there will be no sequel to this story, it would be a loss for both of them.

 

[Quazar]

I'm guessing this has been posted....

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/07/16/microsoft-confirms-bungie-is-developing-new-halo/

"In an interview shot for MTV News on Tuesday, Microsoft’s head of Xbox business Don Mattrick, confirmed to me that Bungie is indeed working on a new “Halo” game of some sort for Microsoft.

Not only did Mattrick say not to worry and that announcements would be coming, he also said that Microsoft is working with Bungie on a “Halo” game.

I asked for clarification, wondering if Mattrick meant Bungie’s project was “Halo Wars” or the long-announced Peter Jackson “Halo” project. Neither, Mattrick said. The Bungie game is something else.

And then, not surprisingly, the topic was changed."

 

[FFChris]

I'm guessing this has been posted....

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/07/16/microsoft-confirms-bungie-is-developing-new-halo/

"Not only did Mattrick say not to worry and that announcements would be coming, he also said that Microsoft is working with Bungie on a “Halo” game.

I asked for clarification, wondering if Mattrick meant Bungie’s project was “Halo Wars” or the long-announced Peter Jackson “Halo” project. Neither, Mattrick said. The Bungie game is something else.

And then, not surprisingly, the topic was changed."

Well that's odd. Maybe he is referring to the MGS Halo game, and Bungie are just helping MGS along?

Anyway, hopefully these announcements come out sooner rather than later.

 

[Quazar]

Well that's odd. Maybe he is referring to the MGS Halo game, and Bungie are just helping MGS along?

Anyway, hopefully these announcements come out sooner rather than later.

So odd no one is posting anymore.

 

[BakedPigeon]

So odd no one is posting anymore.

I think this thread has had every single possible combination for a reply. Not much more needs to be said :lol

 

[Deleted member 21120]

It's a hypothetical. I made it up.

Oh, okay. 'Cause as far as I've seen, all of the interviews with Mattrick on "why the plug was pulled" were actually conducted before anyone knew about said plug. So Mattrick couldn't have copped to something that he wasn't being asked about.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

Oh I don't know maybe to stay on a nice working relationship with their publisher. What does Bungie gain by telling us that Microsoft was the one who canceled it, in fact what does anyone gain? They have caused drama that could have easily been avoided. It's not about hiding who was responsible, its about not airing things to the public that don't need to be aired.



Fallen on what sword? How many people do you think are genuinely mad that the countdown led to nothing? Of those mad how many are more mad that Microsoft canceled the announcement then they are about the announcement being canceled. If they hadn't mentioned the publisher in any way I guarantee this thread would have far less replies and angry responses. I think people are very understanding when it comes to unforeseen complications and that sometimes things just don't go the way you want, but giving up someone as the fault for it just doesn't help in my opinion.

Wrong. There would be many more responses along the lines of "Sony getting some payback for FF13 and are going after Bungie! :lol "

Some "insider" would come out and add fuel to the fire and say "Sony has been in contact with Bungie, that is all I'll say"