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[kunonabi]

"There should be a reason why she's good"
(Reason x, y, z, as pulled from the text of the film proper)
"There should be good reasons why she's good. You know, like Womp Rats. That sort of good storytelling."



So she's written better, she's better at delivering the dialog she's been written, she's better at emoting, she's a better actor, she's working with better material and she executes it better.

And you guys are wondering why people believe in her character easily?

Maybe the reason you'll take the other two is because you've seen their finished arcs already.

And even if that isn't the reason, why would it matter when I'm directly comparing, one-to-one, their introductions as characters? Even divorcing the rest of their arcs from the equasion, she's still written better and portrayed better as a character than either Luke or Anakin were.

Luke and Anakin both feel like they're being challenged, other characters doubt them and write them off, they face setbacks, and overcome them in fashions that are easily understandable without reading other media or needing a sequel for. Both characters also dont make their supporting casts completely obsolete. As of right now that works better for me despite Ridley's fantastic performance.

Rey was actually one of the three things i was looking forward to prior to release and I was actually worried that she was going to be a bit player with how the marketing played up Finn and ignored her. Its kind of funny how it turned out to be the complete opposite and Finn ended up being the only part of the movie I liked.

 

[Gunslinger]

Although I don't disagree, I'm also not sure you have a great gauge on why she's better written, especially since earlier in the thread you called her moment grabbing the saber a "cheap bootlegg" version of Luke in the wampa cave

Like, if you can't recognize why those two scenes and their dramatic intentions/purposes are vastly different, I don't know if you've got the firmest grip on why Furiosa is better written than Rey is

lmaooooooo. Bro why you getting so defensive that I think that scene you posted is nothing special and rip off luke in the Wampa cave moment. You acting like I insulted your mom or something. Relax man. It's my opinion. You don't like it thats fine. I don't agree with your opinion of TFA but you dont see me hounding you to explain why. Relax man Relax.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I'll have to check those out then, thanks!

I'd be happy to see some sort of change in the status quo with the New Republic having been established for some time and the First Order being either a splinter group that's running around in hiding, which would be in sharp contrast to how the Empire and the rebellion were established in the OT. Then again, the discussion of politics and planetary negotiations might give some people bad flashbacks to the prequels, lol.

I'd suggest starting with Bloodline. It's set a few years before The Force Awakens and you get a better idea of the state of the New Republic in the lead-up to the film and how the First Order were formed/supported. It's also one of the best books of the new canon so far.

The Aftermath trilogy covers the last days of the Empire and the formation of the New Republic after Return of the Jedi. The first book's a bit iffy but I enjoyed Life Debt and Empire's End.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

lmaooooooo. Bro why you getting so defensive

I'm not getting defensive at all. Your bad opinion getting challenged isn't defensive.

(lmaaoooooooo lol)

Luke and Anakin both feel like they're being challenged, other characters doubt them and write them off, they face setbacks, and overcome them in fashions that are easily understandable.

That happens in this movie

 

[Roders5]

Luke and Anakin both feel like they're being challenged, other characters doubt them and write them off, they face setbacks, and overcome them in fashions that are easily understandable without reading other media or needing a sequel for. Both characters also dont make their supporting casts completely obsolete. As of right now that works better for me despite Ridley's fantastic performance.

Rey was actually one of the three things i was looking forward to prior to release and I was actually worried that she was going to be a bit player with how the marketing played up Finn and ignored her. Its kind of funny how it turned out to be the complete opposite and Finn ended up being the only part of the movie I liked.

Are you talking about Anakin, the 10 year old child who builds entire droids, can fix anything mechanical, wins pod races and blows up droid control ships while messing about?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Interestingly enough, neither Luke or Rey had formal light saber training.

Before his fight with Vader in ESB, he:

Turned it on at Obi-wans house
Blocked droid lasers
Force grabbed it and cut off a Wampa arm
Had a fever dream where he faced Vader/Himself

So, I don't think that particular gripe is valid against Rey.

 

[Roders5]

Rey also was clearly shown fighting confidently with a staff, they showed us this shit for a reason people.

 

[Gunslinger]

I'm not getting defensive at all. Your bad opinion getting challenged isn't defensive.

(lmaaoooooooo lol)



That happens in this movie

You mean it's a bad opinion because you THINK it's bad right? And you're not speaking for everyone else right? lol.

 

[border]

It's funny that Rey surviving a duel with Ren is so intensely harped about, but Luke beating Vader in what is his second lightsaber fight ever is perfectly acceptable.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Rey also was clearly shown fighting confidently with a staff, they showed us this shit for a reason people.

Eh...you lose me there, man.

Staff fighting =/= sword fighting

 

[Escape Goat]

Rey also was clearly shown fighting confidently with a staff, they showed us this shit for a reason people.

a staff is not a laser sword. Rey put all her points in 2 handed melee and neglected 1 handed slashing weapons.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Always great to see another thread turn into The Bobby Roberts Show

I wish people would stop replying to that fucking sperglord. Maybe then he'd go away.

Not cool, man

 

[elrechazado]

Are you talking about Anakin, the 10 year old child who builds entire droids, can fix anything mechanical, wins pod races and blows up droid control ships while messing about?

Yeah, and absolutely nobody criticized the story, the actor, the script, or anything else about that, so great point by you.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Yeah, and absolutely nobody criticized the story, the actor, the script, or anything else about that, so great point by you.

Holy shit.

 

[Kyoufu]

a staff is not a laser sword. Rey put all her points in 2 handed melee and neglected 1 handed slashing weapons.

How did she even have enough MP to grab the Lightsaber after spending it all on Jedi Mind Control earlier?

 

[Vice]

Furiosa is a better written character than Rey though. Atleast she's a battle hardened bad ass and her actions make sense. I really dig her crew too. Fit right in the Mad Max universe. Rey on the other hand makes no sense. Just a Godlike Jedi without any training.

There isn't anything Rey does that seems godlike outside of reading Ben's mind. Jedi mind powers had been shown not working on strong-willed people very well, or just not at all in some cases. As seen when Obi-Wan tells Luke the force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. Grabbing the lightsaber with the force is one of the most basic things people do with it and outside of Luke and rey it was always treated as a fairly mundane action.

As for the battling, I see it as the equivalent of Luke shooting wampa rats in a crop duster to being one of the best fighter pilots in the universe within a few days and channeling the force.

Nothing wrong with a female power fantasy. There is just a gigantic gulf in how Anakin and Luke were treated compared to how perfect Rey is and how other characters speak to her compared to Anakin and Luke that makes her stick out in a bad way. There could still be an interesting arc to write in regards to all that but we wont know until the next two movies come out. It could make TFA's depiction worthwhile or they could botch like they did with Korra.

For Anakin, the entire PT constantly talked about how powerful he was or could be. His story in TPM is him winning a race no humans can do, having more midichlorians than the most powerful jedi, and being picked for training even though he is much too old. After that, he quickly becomes one of the most powerful jedi in existence and everyone acknowledges it.

 

[Gunslinger]

How did she even have enough MP to grab the Lightsaber after spending it all on Jedi Mind Control earlier?

She had breaks in between. So probably regen enough mana to use force pull. Given how godlike she is i won't be surprised if she regen force power at 500% speed.

 

[teeny]

I've watched The Force Awakens many times at this point and, if anything, my appreciation of the film has increased on repeat viewing.

I have criticisms - I feel that exposition scenes, such as Obi Wan's house or the Death Star conference would have done much to fill in some of the missing backstory (such as the relationship between the New Republic and Resistance and origins of the First Order). I also feel that other things were missed out or tied up unsatisfactorily, such as Maz's activity during and after Takodana, R2's inactivity and the reason for Luke's map. What I do not agree with is the notion the film is a rehash. It treads the same beats and it misses one or two, but it is a fantastic return to form for the series.

I did come away from my viewings with a sense of melancholy, that the heroes I grew up with have had difficult lives consisting of obvious failures since we last saw them. I don't pretend to misunderstand this feeling with disliking the film, however - without conflict, both overarching and personal, it would not be Star Wars.

I would like to point out that Rey's abilities do seem more advanced than Luke's. However, I believe they are likely to be on par with Anakin's had Anakin not been whisked away at the comparatively younger age.

There is also obviously a reason for Rey's apparently innate force abilities which probably ties in to her family and the reason for her abandonment on Jakku, of all places (the new EU alludes to this). There are two more films in this trilogy for this to be expanded on - if it is not, then I may have an issue.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I see people saying that Luke, the direct descendant of the most powerful Jedi didn't have a spiritual awakening all cheats were enabled from the first movie.

There are no different standards. YOU made a blanket statement. You didn't say Rey--you said women.

So I gave examples.

There's someone complaining about Rey being feminist pandering like less than a page ago. This thread is full of posts trying to explain how Kylo's emotional and physical damage (after being hit by this fucking thing!) isn't enough to make Rey beat him. I mean come on.

Also, your examples are bad. Furiosa is a bad example because people were complaining about her and Trinity is a bad example because she's barely a character (1, 2). Nice try though, I guess.

 

[Escape Goat]

How did she even have enough MP to grab the Lightsaber after spending it all on Jedi Mind Control earlier?

I think she respec'd somewhere along the way.

 

[border]

Yeah, and absolutely nobody criticized the story, the actor, the script, or anything else about that, so great point by you.

He's not the one who brought up Anakin.

I have no idea why people choose to bring him up as a character who struggled, trained, faced setbacks, overcame obstacles in a believable way, etc.

 

[Roders5]

Eh...you lose me there, man.

Staff fighting =/= sword fighting

The point is she knew how to fight, it's something she had to learn due to growing up in the environment she did. Luke was a farm boy.

 

[thewaffles]

Eh...you lose me there, man.

Staff fighting =/= sword fighting

While I do think Rey's abilities were developed too quickly, we were never introduced to Luke's master marksmanship or hook-rope swinging abilities. All star wars movies tend to gloss over these things so singling out Rey for hers seems unfair. Although I do recognize that her swordsmanship competence came at such a pivotal moment.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

There's someone complaining about Rey being feminist pandering like less than a page ago. This thread is full of posts trying to explain how Kylo's emotional and physical damage (after being hit by this fucking thing!) isn't enough to make Rey beat him. I mean come on.

SomeONE. I agree.

That one person had that position.

Most people in this thread aren't saying that at all.

 

[Roders5]

He's not the one who brought up Anakin.

I have no idea why people choose to bring him up as a character who struggled, trained, faced setbacks, overcame obstacles in a believable way, etc.

Thank you, nice to see that some people here can actually read

 

[cuate]

Always great to see another thread turn into The Bobby Roberts Show

I wish people would stop replying to that fucking sperglord. Maybe then he'd go away.

 

[Glass Rebel]

SomeONE. I agree.

That one person had that position.

Most people in this thread aren't saying that at all.

Sure. They are saying the other thing that you conveniently ignored.

 

[border]

If you can explain away Luke's skills as a fighter pilot with "He used to hit wamp rats" then you can certainly justify Rey's saber skills with "She used to fight people with a staff".

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I wish people would stop replying to that fucking sperglord. Maybe then he'd go away.

Maybe YOU should go away spewing venom like the bolded.

 

[elrechazado]

He's not the one who brought up Anakin.

I have no idea why people choose to bring him up as a character who struggled, trained, faced setbacks, overcame obstacles in a believable way, etc.

So we agree that if one is opposed to bad writing and underdeveloped, unearned characters, Anakin and Rey are both examples we can criticize? Good.

 

[Gunslinger]

I wish people would stop replying to that fucking sperglord. Maybe then he'd go away.

Come on man. You may not like/agree with his opinion but don't gotta insult him like that bro. That was uncalled for come on man.

 

[thewaffles]

I wish people would stop replying to that fucking sperglord. Maybe then he'd go away.

Dude wtf.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Sure. They are saying the other thing that you conveniently ignored.

I ignored it for a reason.

That in my opinion, is no different than the gripes people had about Maul holding his own against two Jedi, kills one and then loses to Obi Wan jumping over his head. Whether it was explained or not in TFA, it didn't sit well with some people so they are griping.

YOU are inferring it it gender related but it is a difficult one for you to prove.

 

[Roders5]

I wish people would stop replying to that fucking sperglord. Maybe then he'd go away.

That's rich, the majority of your posts on this forum are angry diatribe. You have no clue how to speak to people.

 

[Vagabundo]

There isn't anything Rey does that seems godlike outside of reading Ben's mind. Jedi mind powers had been shown not working on strong-willed people very well, or just not at all in some cases. As seen when Obi-Wan tells Luke the force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. Grabbing the lightsaber with the force is one of the most basic things people do with it and outside of Luke and rey it was always treated as a fairly mundane action.

As for the battling, I see it as the equivalent of Luke shooting wampa rats in a crop duster to being one of the best fighter pilots in the universe within a few days and channeling the force.



For Anakin, the entire PT constantly talked about how powerful he was or could be. His story in TPM is him winning a race no humans can do, having more midichlorians than the most powerful jedi, and being picked for trainign even though he is much too old.

I got pissed off with the breath and scope of her powers. Okay she's got force reflexes and can fight. Okay she can handle a ship really well. Okay she's now learned how to mind trick, now she's able to fight a trained guy with a lightsabre. Too much. At some point she jumped the shark for me, and obviously other people. It broken the rules of the universe. It was bad writing, I've no wish to take away women's power fantasy, god above they ave few enough of them, but I can't force myself to connect to Rey and I stopped caring about her as a character about half way through the film.

Daisy did a great job, but the writing was a fault here I think. And I think Finn and the other were completely pointless, Rey could have done it all by herself. Luke would have been toast without any of the others.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I wish people would stop replying to that fucking sperglord. Maybe then he'd go away.

How have you lasted on this forum for over a decade with shit like this?

 

[cuate]

Come on man. You may not like/agree with his opinion but don't gotta insult him like that bro. That was uncalled for come on man.

He's rude and obnoxious. And always has to win an argument like his life depended on it. I don't care.

 

[border]

So we agree that if one is opposed to bad writing and underdeveloped, unearned characters, Anakin and Rey are both examples we can criticize?

Anakin, Rey, and Luke are all worthy of the same criticism. They're all incredibly powerful and skilled just because. As I said though, that's basically just a convention of the series at this point. If you consider it bad writing then you're really just in the wrong place.

 

[Saucestin_Roast]

I agree, OP. I'm as big a SW fan as they come. I've watched them all over 30 times. The original trilogy, much more than that. But I've only watched TFA like 3 times now and I have no more desire to watch it really.

For all the same reasons you've outlined. Really hope episode 8 is different. I even liked Rogue One more than TFA.

 

[Geno Breaker]

I wish people would stop replying to that fucking sperglord. Maybe then he'd go away.

Oh please, nobody needs to see this type of attitude.

 

[Gunslinger]

He's rude and obnoxious. And always has to win an argument like his life depended on it. I don't care.

Just put him on ignore then if you think hes annoying. The forum provides you an ignore function for a reason.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I ignored it for a reason.

That in my opinion, is no different than the gripes people had about Maul holding his own against two Jedi, kills one and then loses to Obi Wan jumping over his head. Whether it was explained or not in TFA, it didn't sit well with some people so they are griping.

YOU are inferring it it gender related but it is a difficult one for you to prove.

It's really not that difficult when it's been happening all over this thread and threads before it. You not wanting to see it and bringing up weird, nonsensical examples and whataboutisms doesn't change that.

 

[Vice]

I got pissed off with the breath and scope of her powers. Okay she's got force reflexes and can fight. Okay she can handle a ship really well. Okay she's now learned how to mind trick, now she's able to fight a trained guy with a lightsabre. Too much. At some point she jumped the shark for me, and obviously other people. It broken the rules of the universe. It was bad writing, I've no wish to take away women's power fantasy, god above they ave few enough of them, but I can't force myself to connect to Rey and I stopped caring about her as a character about half way through the film.

Daisy did a great job, but the writing was a fault here I think. And I think Finn and the other were completely pointless, Rey could have done it all by herself. Luke would have been toast without any of the others.

I see the fighting and reflexes as learned skills, and even then they would be the same reasons he was able to fight Ben. So those seem like the same ability to me. Flying ships is more mechanical knowledge and she didn't do anything incredibly tricky during the film. The mind trick required her to try it a few times and the ability was always treated as fairly simple in the OT and PT. And I don't recall any of the force abilities happening until the last third of the film for Rey.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Furiosa is a better written character than Rey though. Atleast she's a battle hardened bad ass and her actions make sense. I really dig her crew too. Fit right in the Mad Max universe. Rey on the other hand makes no sense. Just a Godlike Jedi without any training.

She's not god-like, wtf. You really think the Vader in Rogue One wouldn't be able to instantly slice the head off of TFA Rey?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

It's really not that difficult when it's been happening all over this thread and threads before it. You not wanting to see it and bringing up weird, nonsensical examples and whataboutisms doesn't change that.

So the gripes that Maul lost in the fashion he did (after taking on 2 Jedi) didn't exist and are nonsensical?

Okie dokie.

 

[hateradio]

It's okay. I couldn't even make it through Rogue One once.

Same.

Mind you I was on an airplane, but I never bothered to just finish it.

 

[elrechazado]

So the gripes that Maul lost in the fashion he did (after taking on 2 Jedi) didn't exist and are nonsensical?

Okie dokie.

Maul lost because he had the high ground. Oh wait

 

[The Librarian]

She's masturbatory girl power fantasy. Beating a trained sith who can stop laser shots dead on their tracks was beyond ridiculous, injured or not.

You should feel very, very bad for this horrible, sexist post.

 

[Gunslinger]

She's not god-like, wtf. You really think the Vader in Rogue One wouldn't be able to instantly slice the head off of TFA Rey?

No don't think so. Kylo Ren is no scrub. He displays some tremendous amount of Force power like we haven't seen before. Stopping the blaster bolt mid flight, completely stun/put on statis a force user (rey), Mind read, force sense etc. He is clearly no pushover. But he sure looked like it during the last fight. The reason I say ray is godlike because she is already displaying advanced level power that mostly Jedi's learn from years of training. Once she is trained I think even EU luke will get destroyed by her. She is too strong maybe the strongest ever. Atleast from her potential shown in TFA.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Maul lost because he had the high ground. Oh wait

Exactly. LOL