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[chibcicylist]

Have there been any screenshots for Devil Kings? I just heard about that today.

The screenshot actually looks good, I give Capcom that much, though the ones I've seen were small. I do like the character design.

 

[Pureauthor]

The difference:

Nintendo games are often kiddy, but have their very own smpathic style AND near to perfect gameplay. Treasure Island might visually be appealing to some people, but overall its not a special style and not a style to like. And sorry, but just from looking at the screen, from seeng how the environment is designedd, i can feel how boring the gameplay is going to be. Run around in clunky animations, do trivial stuff, like collecting certain things and solving some block-puzzles...*yawn*

Did you just describe Zelda, or am I missing something?

Edit: Beaten by ethelred.

Mario Galaxy looks kiddy, but look how new, fresh and epic the game looks.

The Wii-demographic doesnt like kiddy-looking-games, they like good games.
DMC4 on Wii wouldnt sell much less on Wii than on X360.

Look, I'm not disagreeing here. What I am saying is:

HOW ARE THIRD PARTIES SUPPOSED TO KNOW THIS WHEN THE VAST MAJORITY OF TITLES SOLD ON NINTENDO CONSOLES ARE 'KIDDY'?

 

[Cruceh]

The Wii-demographic doesnt like kiddy-looking-games, they like good games.

Since it doesn't look kiddy, this must be good?

 

[TheGreatDave]

So... Zelda, then.

Zelda doesn't have clunky animation. And unfortunatly few block puzzles nowadays

 

[Cruceh]

double post

 

[KINGMOKU]

Since it doesn't look kiddy, this must be good?

How the hell would we know? It's not out yet.

Did my IQ just drop 50points?

 

[MasterMFauli]

So... Zelda, then.

Very own, likable style + complex interaction with the game world and non-trivial stuff, you always know that what you´re going to do is very important for the final goal, to save the world.
But keep on defending Capcom...just make sure to buy "Baby Bobble Color Revolution"...

 

[TheGreatDave]

Very own, likable style + complex interaction with the game world and non-trivial stuff, you always know that what you´re going to do is very important for the final goal, to save the world.
But keep on defending Capcom...just make sure to buy "Baby Bobble Color Revolution"...

Who cares if a game looks "kiddy" (which is a retarded term) anyway? Jesus, the game is no less likely to be fun. Hell, making something cartoony is a good way to play to Wii's strengths and not expose it's GPU.

 

[MasterMFauli]

Who cares if a game looks "kiddy" (which is a retarded term) anyway? Jesus, the game is no less likely to be fun. Hell, making something cartoony is a good way to play to Wii's strengths and not expose it's GPU.

A game can be as good as it wants to be, if it doesnt look appealing, it´s no fun to play it.

 

[thefro]

As the blog post said, they still have unannounced projects for Wii coming out in 2007, which is great news.

Seems like a steady stream of games should start hitting Wii in the second half of the year from the big third parties in Japan.

 

[ethelred]

Very own, likable style + complex interaction with the game world and non-trivial stuff, you always know that what you´re going to do is very important for the final goal, to save the world.
But keep on defending Capcom...just make sure to buy "Baby Bobble Color Revolution"...

Like I said: Nintendo fans are the reason third parties are so leery of making games on Nintendo systems. Anything that isn't a Nintendo game is automatically assumed to be drastically inferior in every respect, while Batallion Wars 2 and Project Hammer get a free pass; anything that's cartoony and mascoty is bitched about, because hey, that's Nintendo's turf, I guess.

You blokes are a riot, though, don't ever change -- I'm sure in three years when the Wii's sold 20 million units and the third parties still steer clear, you'll still be wondering why.

 

[Pureauthor]

A game can be as good as it wants to be, if it doesnt look appealing, it´s no fun to play it.

Then tie a blindfold on or something and flail madly with the Wiimote.

Like I said: Nintendo fans are the reason third parties are so leery of making games on Nintendo systems. You blokes are a riot, though, don't ever change -- I'm sure in three years when the Wii's sold 20 million units and the third parties still steer clear, you'll still be wondering why.

For the record, I'm a Nintendo fan.

Dunno if you think any better of me than them, though. =/

 

[TheGreatDave]

A game can be as good as it wants to be, if it doesnt look appealing, it´s no fun to play it.

That's the most retarded thing I've read today. I just played ****ing Excite Bike and had fun.

 

[chibcicylist]

Since it doesn't look kiddy, this must be good?

How the hell would we know? It's not out yet.

Did my IQ just drop 50points?

Kid's cute, though.

 

[the thoroughbred]

I haven't invested in next gen yet. My friend, whom lives with me, has a 360, and is thinking of getting a Wii. I really want all the Resident Evils on one console. I hope they eventually port RE 5 onto Wii. ATM I will definately end up with a Wii, before year end. But I really want RE5 as well. Dammit. Hopefully once RE: UC sells twice as much as RE:5, Capgod will decide to do a Wii version of RE:5.

 

[kikonawa]

wii is holding back next gen 8-/

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

That's the most retarded thing I've read today. I just played ****ing Excite Bike and had fun.

Excitebike still looks good.

I really think the majority of GAF has a problem with what looks "good" and "bad".

 

[Pureauthor]

wii is holding back next gen 8-/

It's not as if the Wii exerts a gravitational pull on all who approach it, thus forcing them to buy the system.

Lack of customers is what's holding back the narrow and ill-defined term you call 'next-gen', not the Wii.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Excitebike still looks good.

I really think the majority of GAF has a problem with what looks "good" and "bad".

Excitebike looks pretty terrible. Donkey Kong and Mario hold up, but Excitebike has always looked far too dated for me.

 

[MasterMFauli]

That's the most retarded thing I've read today. I just played ****ing Excite Bike and had fun.

Yeah, you played the visually most appealing Wii-game, so what?

Like I said: Nintendo fans are the reason third parties are so leery of making games on Nintendo systems. Anything that isn't a Nintendo game is automatically assumed to be drastically inferior in every respect, while Batallion Wars 2 and Project Hammer get a free pass; anything that's cartoony and mascoty is bitched about, because hey, that's Nintendo's turf, I guess.

Yeah, that´s called "trust".
Watchign the latest BW2-screens together with the comments of people from Games Convention who played the game together with the fact that´s it´s a game published by Nintendo = i can trust the game wont be crap.
Also, Project HAMMER made a huge improvement from its unveiling to the next time it was shown.

Nintendo-games may not be the visually most complex games, but you can always see a visual polish that´s just unreached by other developers. And you have to blind to look at Treasure Island and see a great game coming. Bad character-design, typical top-down-view, and so on.
And then, the most annoying thing is, WHY do 3rd-parties think, they have to make kiddy-looking games for Wii, when on X360 and PS3 they make DMC, Lost Planet, etc.?
There are at least 10 Million hardcore-Nintendo-fans all over the world. These core-fans love great games, despite the graphics. Bring a game like DMC or Lost Planet for wii, and these core-fans will support the game.
It´s 3rd-party´s own fault if they´re feeling leery. They handle their Wii-support differently than their 360/PS3-support. You cant blame Nintendo-fans for not supporting such behaviour.

 

[plagiarize]

what a crazy week this has been.

i get RE Wii this year?

when do i get to know more about it?

 

[John Harker]

Like I said: Nintendo fans are the reason third parties are so leery of making games on Nintendo systems. Anything that isn't a Nintendo game is automatically assumed to be drastically inferior in every respect, while Batallion Wars 2 and Project Hammer get a free pass; anything that's cartoony and mascoty is bitched about, because hey, that's Nintendo's turf, I guess.

You blokes are a riot, though, don't ever change -- I'm sure in three years when the Wii's sold 20 million units and the third parties still steer clear, you'll still be wondering why.

I actually tend to agree with this.

 

[Pureauthor]

Yeah, you played the visually most appealing Wii-game, so what?

Excite Bike, dude.

And then, the most annoying thing is, WHY do 3rd-parties think, they have to make kiddy-looking games for Wii, when on X360 and PS3 they make DMC, Lost Planet, etc.?
There are at least 10 Million hardcore-Nintendo-fans all over the world. These core-fans love great games, despite the graphics. Bring a game like DMC or Lost Planet for wii, and these core-fans will support the game.
It´s 3rd-party´s own fault if they´re feeling leery. They handle their Wii-support differently than their 360/PS3-support. You cant blame Nintendo-fans for not supporting such behaviour.

Again:

Look, I'm not disagreeing here. What I am saying is:

HOW ARE THIRD PARTIES SUPPOSED TO KNOW THIS WHEN THE VAST MAJORITY OF TITLES SOLD ON NINTENDO CONSOLES ARE 'KIDDY'?

 

[the thoroughbred]

At least Nintendo is trying, with games like Disaster, HAMMER, Zelda. And the biggest one of them all, NO PURPLE Wii. Could you imagine a purple Wii, it would look so gay. I blame the fall of the GC, entirely on its colour. I will go as far as saying, had they released it in Black or White only, the console would have had a very good second place.

 

[No6]

By trying to make an edgy, mature game?

Like Eternal Darkness? Didn't seem to sell too well hmmm could be a message to 3rd parties.

Nintendo games are often kiddy, but have their very own smpathic style AND near to perfect gameplay.

No, these days they have decent but flawed gameplay. Pikmin was probably the last Nintendo console game with "near to perfect" gameplay, unless you think rehashing a decade-old game's gameplay counts (complete with decade old design flaws).

Very own, likable style + complex interaction with the game world and non-trivial stuff, you always know that what you´re going to do is very important for the final goal, to save the world.

I don't know how you can claim Zelda has "complex interaction with game world" considering how much it discourages exploration. Or how chests with rupees are "very important for the final goal".

The Wii-demographic doesnt like kiddy-looking-games, they like good games.

Prove it. So far the "Wii-demographic" seems to mostly like demos and minigames. Zelda selling poorly in Japan, Excite Truck selling poorly in the US, Ubisoft managing to push ok numbers on half-assed trash (Red Steel) do not indicate what you claim at all.

Ethelred is right: If Nintendo and Nintendo fans want developers to produce something less kiddy, Nintendo needs to make those games and Nintendo fans need to buy them in order to prove that there's a point.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I actually tend to agree with this.

I actually think this is an endless cycle - hardcore Nintendo fans are bitter because they don't get 3rd party games and as such only buy Nintendo, and 3rd parties don't make games for Nintendo because they know Nintendo fans won't buy their software.

edit: Hell, I think even Nintendo knows this: as evidenced by their insistence on getting new gamers, they'll recruit gamers who don't have such a ridiculous loyalty to Nintendo that they'll buy only their games.

 

[MasterMFauli]

Excite Bike, dude.

Sorry, look at my tag :-/
Nonetheless, im talking about the present, not the past. I didnt have a NES bakc then, but Excite Bike may have looked appeailing at that time.

At your latter sentence:
Well, HOW should 3rd-parties know what sells, if they dont try to gibe Wii more adult-based games? They keep making kiddy-looking games, and all those games sell bad or average...then they cancel they support, stating "Nintendo-fans only like Nintendo-games". That´s so frustrating being a Nintendo-fan, as 3rd-parties make crappy games for Wii and expect the Wii-fans to buy that crap, when there are better alternatives.

 

[No6]

Yeah, that´s called "trust".
Watchign the latest BW2-screens together with the comments of people from Games Convention who played the game together with the fact that´s it´s a game published by Nintendo = i can trust the game wont be crap.
Also, Project HAMMER made a huge improvement from its unveiling to the next time it was shown.

No, it's called religious fervor. Neither Hammer nor Disaster have been shown to be anything above sub-par, yet they keep popping up on the N-Hive's "must buy" list. It's surreal and sends a negative message to 3rd parties.

Nintendo-games may not be the visually most complex games, but you can always see a visual polish that´s just unreached by other developers.

Total hogwash and religious fervor.

There are at least 10 Million hardcore-Nintendo-fans all over the world. These core-fans love great games, despite the graphics.

I'm pretty sure not a single GC game sold close to 10 million copies, so you're really going to have to back that up.

 

[Epiphyte]

Ethelred is right: If Nintendo and Nintendo fans want developers to produce something less kiddy, Nintendo needs to make those games and Nintendo fans need to buy them in order to prove that there's a point.

They've already done it. It was called Metroid Prime.

No, it's called religious fervor. Neither Hammer nor Disaster have been shown to be anything above sub-par, yet they keep popping up on the N-Hive's "must buy" list. It's surreal and sends a negative message to 3rd parties.

See also Killzone

 

[chibcicylist]

edit: Hell, I think even Nintendo knows this: as evidenced by their insistence on getting new gamers, they'll recruit gamers who don't have such a ridiculous loyalty to Nintendo that they'll buy only their games.

:lol

 

[John Harker]

And then, the most annoying thing is, WHY do 3rd-parties think, they have to make kiddy-looking games for Wii, when on X360 and PS3 they make DMC, Lost Planet, etc.?
There are at least 10 Million hardcore-Nintendo-fans all over the world. These core-fans love great games, despite the graphics. Bring a game like DMC or Lost Planet for wii, and these core-fans will support the game.
It´s 3rd-party´s own fault if they´re feeling leery. They handle their Wii-support differently than their 360/PS3-support. You cant blame Nintendo-fans for not supporting such behaviour.

It isnt possible that game designers have a vision, a plan, a design for a game, and it simply isn't possible for those to be realized by the limitations of the Wii?

LP and DR, as they are now, cannot be played on the Wii. Those games were designed ground-up for the Xbox because that was the game the design team wanted to create - they aren't going to compromise their vision. The games came out fantastic.

Gamers will come out and support the game if it is high quality and something worth experiencing regardless of platform. And look... they did! Both games are selling amazing.
Why should the game designers bow to you when they are making $$$ and without compromosing their visions? Why would a publisher bow to the "nintendo-fan" when there are millions of gamers out there who actully, you know, play games?

The Wii will get plenty of its own ground-up developed games that arent shoe horned or a comprimise of the designer/artists originally intentions. Just becuase you don't like it doesn't make it a poor effort. It seems to me you're being kind of childish/elitist. What kind of gamer demands fantastic games be released for a niche "core" gamer demogrpahic of their own design, despite the fact the game creaters had a vision? You can't comrpomise somones intentions because you feel burned you don't get to play them, Lost PLanet Wii would not be the game Lost PLanet Xbox was, which would be a huge loss since that game fully took advantage of everything the 360 has to offer and was amazing for it.

Just play games dude, stop complaining, the damn Wii has been out 4 months. DR took 9 and LP took like 14.

 

[No6]

Well, HOW should 3rd-parties know what sells, if they dont try to gibe Wii more adult-based games? They keep making kiddy-looking games, and all those games sell bad or average...then they cancel they support, stating "Nintendo-fans only like Nintendo-games". That´s so frustrating being a Nintendo-fan, as 3rd-parties make crappy games for Wii and expect the Wii-fans to buy that crap, when there are better alternatives.

It's not the job of 3rd parties to prove that Wii-owners are interested in non-kiddy games. They tried here and there on the GC, and were rewarded with middling-at-best sales.

 

[Pureauthor]

At your latter sentence:
Well, HOW should 3rd-parties know what sells, if they dont try to gibe Wii more adult-based games? They keep making kiddy-looking games, and all those games sell bad or average...then they cancel they support, stating "Nintendo-fans only like Nintendo-games". That´s so frustrating being a Nintendo-fan, as 3rd-parties make crappy games for Wii and expect the Wii-fans to buy that crap, when there are better alternatives.

Lemme think about that for a sec - oh yeah, how about Nintendo, the biggest game publisher on the Nintendo Wii (I know that's not the official name, shut up), steps up to the plate on these mature games? As in, provide proof to 3rd parties that hey, 'mature' games sell on our consoles, look!

Not rocket science, people.

 

[chibcicylist]

Master Fauli, you suck. You should have followed my lead.

 

[Evlar]

Like I said: Nintendo fans are the reason third parties are so leery of making games on Nintendo systems.

That's ridiculous. I fear for the future of any company that makes publishing decisions based on the messageboard rantings of a small percentage of console owners. Nobody is leery of the kind of fan who only praises one chosen company. Publishers just ignore them.

You seem to be suggesting that Wii is only attracting the Nintendo zealots. That's an explanation that doesn't match the facts on the ground, particularly the fact that new Nintendo IPs (Wii Sports, Wii Play) are dominating over established franchises that would presumably attract the faithful first (Zelda, Wario Ware, PBR). And if the bulk of Wii owners aren't dyed-in-the-wool Nintendo fanatics then the rest of the argument falls apart- that third-party titles will sink because The Faithful won't buy anything that's not Nintendo-branded.

 

[MasterMFauli]

No, it's called religious fervor. Neither Hammer nor Disaster have been shown to be anything above sub-par, yet they keep popping up on the N-Hive's "must buy" list. It's surreal and sends a negative message to 3rd parties.

Total hogwash and religious fervor.

I'm pretty sure not a single GC game sold close to 10 million copies, so you're really going to have to back that up.

Are you a hardcore religious, or what´s with all the religion-stuff you write?
Take the facts or leave it. I cant change what it is like.
Hammer has shown nothing? I saw highresolution-textures, great distance-draw, and fluid gameplay. Now add some depth by giving the game a story, different weapons and more inter-mission goals than just slashing enemies, and it´ll be a great game.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Nintendo needs to get the userbase, then third parties can trust the platform to be viable. The Gamecube never got to the point where an invesetment was something they knew could be recouped. Wii's would be doing fantastically now if any third parties had faith in Nintendo before May 06, as it is the third party support is once again lacking.

 

[John Harker]

That's ridiculous. I fear for the future of any company that makes publishing decisions based on the messageboard rantings of a small percentage of console owners. Nobody is leery of the kind of fan who only praises one chosen company. Publishers just ignore them.

You seem to be suggesting that Wii is only attracting the Nintendo zealots. That's an explanation that doesn't match the facts on the ground, particularly the fact that new Nintendo IPs (Wii Sports, Wii Play) are dominating over established franchises that would presumably attract the faithful first (Zelda, Wario Ware, PBR). And if the bulk of Wii owners aren't dyed-in-the-wool Nintendo fanatics then the rest of the argument falls apart- that third-party titles will sink because The Faithful won't buy anything that's not Nintendo-branded.

It is completely untested and unproven what types of games the Wii Sports-generation will buy next. Though it is well document what types of games the "nintendo zealots" will buy - so its a safer bet to cater toward them right now as thats where the historical data is.

Publishers don't make decisions based on messageboard rantings - they make decisions based on purchase intent. Doesn't anyone here know anything about business?

 

[MCD]

Hopefully a mega man game.

legends remake/sequel please.

 

[John Harker]

Are you a hardcore religious, or what´s with all the religion-stuff you write?
Take the facts or leave it. I cant change what it is like.
Hammer has shown nothing? I saw highresolution-textures, great distance-draw, and fluid gameplay. Now add some depth by giving the game a story, different weapons and more inter-mission goals than just slashing enemies, and it´ll be a great game.

Sorry, but you think Treasure Island looks like shit but Project Hammer looks great? :lol
"highresolution-textures, great distance-draw, and fluid gameplay" hahaha

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I actually tend to agree with this.

It's hard to ignore RE4's sales. But then again, that happened on both the last place and first place consoles. So, who's to blame? Fast forward a few years and Sega does a respectable job on Sonic and it does pretty well released late in the month. Nothing makes sense anymore. Dominate console + good game should equal good/great sales.

 

[MasterMFauli]

Lemme think about that for a sec - oh yeah, how about Nintendo, the biggest game publisher on the Nintendo Wii (I know that's not the official name, shut up), steps up to the plate on these mature games? As in, provide proof to 3rd parties that hey, 'mature' games sell on our consoles, look!

Not rocket science, people.

Metroid Prime and Zelda say hello.
Great sales-numbers.
Yet, bo adult-games by 3rd-parties. It´s not Nintendo´s job to invent franchises for lazy 3rd-parties.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Lemme think about that for a sec - oh yeah, how about Nintendo, the biggest game publisher on the Nintendo Wii (I know that's not the official name, shut up), steps up to the plate on these mature games? As in, provide proof to 3rd parties that hey, 'mature' games sell on our consoles, look!

Not rocket science, people.

Fat lot of good it did them with ED and Metroid Prime.

Nintendo shouldn't have to carry everything on the back of its system. Sony didn't have to, neither did Microsoft. Nintendo just has to prove that their console will sell to the gaming populace (which they're already doing) and people will follow.

 

[Pureauthor]

I think I can hear my Economics teacher weeping.

 

[No6]

They've already done it. It was called Metroid Prime.

And the first one was outsold by a new franchise (splinter cell) and the second sold just plain poorly for being the big November title.

See also Killzone

I agree, except that in this case it's title specific, rather than every barely shown Nintendo game, no matter how poor, is given endless faith/fervor.

 

[Zenith]

UC for 2007 was already confirmed when Nintendo put it in their reel titled "Games of 2007".

 

[Evlar]

It is completely untested and unproven what types of games the Wii Sports-generation will buy next. Though it is well document what types of games the "nintendo zealots" will buy - so its a safer bet to cater toward them right now as thats where the historical data is.

Publishers don't make decisions based on messageboard rantings - they make decisions based on purchase intent. Doesn't anyone here know anything about business?

It's not completely untested and unproven. Perhaps we could start with the theory that they MIGHT be some of the same people who are buying the DS. Surely we could find some data to work with there?

Particularly since one of the most successful third-party Wii games to date is Trauma Center.

 

[No6]

Fat lot of good it did them with ED and Metroid Prime.

I'm sorry, are you trying to blame poor sales of ED and MP(2) on 3rd parties?

Nintendo shouldn't have to carry everything on the back of its system. Sony didn't have to, neither did Microsoft. Nintendo just has to prove that their console will sell to the gaming populace (which they're already doing) and people will follow.

Sony and MS (Sony especially) made lots of games that catered to a variety of audiences. MS didn't support the young audience, and that's why they don't get many kiddy games and the few don't sell too well.

 

[Pureauthor]

Fat lot of good it did them with ED and Metroid Prime.

Nintendo shouldn't have to carry everything on the back of its system. Sony didn't have to, neither did Microsoft. Nintendo just has to prove that their console will sell to the gaming populace (which they're already doing) and people will follow.

Sony and Microsoft might not 'have' to, but if you'll look closely, you'll see what occured last gen.

Sony had an extremely wide stable of first party offerings from Crash to God of War. And the PS2 had an extremely wide stable of offerings from Devil May Cry to Odin Sphere. The XBox was known for Halo. And golly, the XBox franchise is now associated with shooters. The GCN was known for the typical Nintendo jolly fare. And look what support it achieved, aside from the complete anomaly that was Capcom with it's RE support.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

This whole discussion is too dependent on the past.

If Nintendo pursues gaming in the same way they did with the Cube, i.e: Pander to the 360/PS3 gamers by trying to attain "teh mature" titles on the console, they will fail again. What incentive is there for those gamers to leave the 360 and PS3 (well, not so much the PS3) if that's where the hardcore mature games are?

Nintendo's best strategy is to grow their market to be larger than the hardcore "we want mature games" market. Once they gain ground (as they have been with the Wii) then 3rd parties will have no choice but to support them. do you think the PS2 got all of those mature titles because they shouted from the rooftops "WE ARE THE MOST HARDCORE RAWR!!!" No, it's because they had the largest userbase and it would be idiotic from a business standpoint to not position your games to where they can touch the most people.