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[SentientStone]

For several years they have been pro-active to eliminate corruption by government officials. Can't say I agree with the death penalty that some people caught got. Another thing about their system is that you cannot "buy" your way into it as is the case in the US. I'm not condoning it, but I understand it.

This is why I feel at this moment the system is fine.
There are still many issues to fix and take care of, and they need a system that just gets it done. After things are more stable (most importantly, the mindset of the citizens are updated... yes, I know how this sounds), then they can perhaps opening up the government system a bit more. The thing people don't seem to get is the cost of transitioning to 'almighty' democracy right now, all the instability and potential damage it will cost in the transition, in a country that is just starting to stabilize and grow again after the Cultural Revolution (which for all the damage it did, at least kept the country sovereign and together).

 

[always crazy bacon]

China has been proactive? What's the mechanism for this? And death penalty? Holy shit. I'll take corruption over gross civil liberty violations any time (including in the us).

As far as I know, if you are a member of the party and you are convicted of corruption charges you stand a chance of being executed. Government officials being found guilty of misconduct even at a local level are exposed by the press.

 

[Bronx-Man]

 

[Principate]

China can't pull this off while the dollar is the global currency thanks to oil. Admittedly, if that changes...

Breh China's been waaaaaaaay ahead of you. They've been doing swaps for many years now. Most countries China has a relationship with don't trade with china in Dollars anymore.

China probably has the most competently run economy bar the US (though the US isn't exactly competently run anymore). It's not the second strongest economy by chance.

 

[SentientStone]

China's peak time (for the next few decades) is fast approaching. Their population is going to get old fast in 10-20 years and that will wreak havoc on their economy.

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-demographic-problems-2016-6

Will robots save China?

I think they will try to balance it with foreign workers and robots, though we shall see how that will work.

 

[4Tran]

It's hard to see why Xi Jinping is wrong. World leadership is a matter of international cooperation and of, well actually leading. Trump and the US are out right now because they're settling on nativism and straying away from international cooperation. On the other hand, you have China taking the lead in all sorts of global initiatives; from trade deals to energy policies. Realistically, other than Trump, the only other leader with all that much stature on the world stage is Merkel, and you can bet that more countries are going to look to China first.

 

[dramatis]

In asking for a "new world order", I think it's less about who is going to be the 'leader' and more about who is going to be the dominating philosophical, cultural, economic, etc. force from here on out. The general push for democracy and human rights would lessen under a China-directed 'new world order'.

Under Obama, I thought that we should have changed 'leader' into something more like 'co-leaders', where the US gradually winds down its excessive influence around the world, while emphasizing cooperation with other developed and developing nations. I don't know what we're going to get with Trump, but I do think China is jumping the gun too early.

 

[Sephzilla]

 

[kevm3]

Yea please. Id be behind a China led globalisation effort.

America is making a balls of things and doesn't deserve to be the superpower.

And what about China is better than the US? You prefer no free speech and getting jailed and possibly having your organs harvested for speaking out against the government?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/23/asia/china-organ-harvesting/

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Its weird to see people idolize china. I hope i never see a world dominated by china.

 

[SentientStone]

In asking for a "new world order", I think it's less about who is going to be the 'leader' and more about who is going to be the dominating philosophical, cultural, economic, etc. force from here on out. The general push for democracy and human rights would lessen under a China-directed 'new world order'.

Under Obama, I thought that we should have changed 'leader' into something more like 'co-leaders', where the US gradually winds down its excessive influence around the world, while emphasizing cooperation with other developed and developing nations. I don't know what we're going to get with Trump, but I do think China is jumping the gun too early.

I agree with this, but also China will evolve its culture over the next few decades to adhere to more global human rights standards. In my opinion though, a lot of the classic Chinese philosophy and culture is the highest level of human (nature) rights, but the current state of the Chinese citizen is not the same as back in the Tang dynasty or during the cultural golden period of China. So, in a way, I agree with the current narrative that the Chinese government is setting, working towards a more civilized society is the slogan you will find throughout China.

 

[tuxfool]

That argument has been running since 99 and it never comes to fruition.

The big issue China has is an impending legitimacy crisis. They pin this BS idea of communism and selfless nationalism on the masses while acquiring greater wealth (or taking it away from those businessmen who aren't in Xi's inner circle whether they are in the mainland or HK) and having their kids zoom around in lambos in Beijing.

It's a bloody ponzi scheme Mafia state and they can't peddle that ideological bull without sorting out their wealth disparities.

My fear is that when the civil disobedience erupts they will deflect it by having overseas conflicts to steer away attention from home and mop up surplus bodies in overseas wars.

True. But even the US is currently beating china in terms of wealth disparities.

 

[Steel]

I agree with this, but also China will evolve its culture over the next few decades to adhere to more global human rights standards. In my opinion though, a lot of the classic Chinese philosophy and culture is the highest level of human (nature) rights, but the current state of the Chinese citizen is not the same as back in the Tang dynasty or during the cultural golden period of China. So, in a way, I agree with the current narrative that the Chinese government is setting, working towards a more civilized society is the slogan you will find throughout China.

I don't buy the Chinese culture evolving at this point. It's devolving if anything, it's only recently that they outlawed same-sex relations on television programs. Fuck having a nation that has medieval views on that type of thing being a cultural center of the world. May as well ask for Russia to be the cultural center of the world.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

How about China embrace democratic free elections?


Not following dictatorships

Dictatorship or oligarchy which is worse?

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

 

[kevm3]

Honestly, I feel like a lot of people are allowing their dislike for Trump to cloud their judgment and I am actually seeing people in here suggest that having a communist government who censors free speech, executes politicians and executes political prisoners and harvests their organs as a better alternative to what we have now.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Honestly, I feel like a lot of people are allowing their dislike for Trump to cloud their judgment and I am actually seeing people in here suggest that having a communist government who censors free speech, executes politicians and executes political prisoners and harvests their organs as a better alternative to what we have now.

Exactly. Trump is terrible, and the worst thing that has happened in the US in decades, but America under Trump is still less awful than China. Also, Trump has an expiration date (hopefully 3.9 years from now) whereas China will have similar governance far into the future.

 

[dopplr]

Honestly, I feel like a lot of people are allowing their dislike for Trump to cloud their judgment and I am actually seeing people in here suggest that having a communist government who censors free speech, executes politicians and executes political prisoners and harvests their organs as a better alternative to what we have now.

I don't see it as better. I simply see it as a real possibility of happening. They've been setting this up for years and they have a good opportunity to progress in their vision - good or bad. They want to spread their influence and they're well poised to do it due to the current global political economy.

 

[SentientStone]

I don't buy the Chinese culture evolving at this point. It's devolving if anything, it's only recently that they outlawed same-sex relations on television programs. Fuck having a nation that has medieval views on that type of thing being a cultural center of the world. May as well ask for Russia to be the cultural center of the world.

I haven't been following the censorship regarding that, but I can tell you that many young people are quite open or at least tolerant of same-sex relationships, or maybe that's cause most college kids I know are art students. Hah

In fact, there is a gay bar next to the university where I am staying at right now (though perhaps it's not low-key and no one complained about it. Actually, many things are like this in China, most things are pretty chill as long as no one reports it (and most really only mind their own business).

 

[Lonely1]

Curious how many here are accepting China and their call to lead the new world.

Are you guys crazy?

At least they dont base election winning campaigns and policy based on hatred of my skin. Or deny science.

 

[Chittagong]

America turned middle east to rubble, China built a new Rwanda.

Yeah, I am happy for China to take the lead.

 

[bobbytkc]

Exactly. Trump is terrible, and the worst thing that has happened in the US in decades, but America under Trump is still less awful than China. Also, Trump has an expiration date (hopefully 3.9 years from now) whereas China will have similar governance far into the future.

I dont see how america can claim to be better when they set back development of entire contries in the middle east by decades and invaded entire countries while china did nothing on a similar scale.

 

[Pagusas]

At least they dont base election winning campaigns and policy based on hatred of my skin. Or deny science.

And how racially diverse is China?

 

[D4Danger]

At least they dont base election winning campaigns and policy based on hatred of my skin. Or deny science.

what campaigns? oh you mean when the state run media tells you who is in charge.

 

[Lonely1]

And how racially diverse is China?

Not very, at least they don't call us rapist and want us to pay for a ridiculous wall.

what campaigns? oh you mean when the state run media tells you who is in charge.

Yep, they don't have 24 hours networks dedicated at smearing us that now have clout over goverment.

 

[clay_ghost]

TBH, Both big brothers have their dark side. Its just that right now US is doing a lot of moves that even the less popular brother is horrified at and now seek to make use of the weakness to gain popularity. I will rather see a more balanced power share rather than one side domination but Trump is making it hard. The problem is China is not exactly nice if you disagree with her like US is not nice if you disagree with her.

 

[SentientStone]

I dont see how america can claim to be better when they set back development of entire contries in the middle east by decades and invaded entire countries while china did nothing on a similar scale.

This, I have met quite a number of international students in China from the Middle East, and most of them do not have a good opinion on America; it is understandable why though. This is another reason why I think China will rise peacefully, as it is Chinese culture to not fight needless wars, or at least if they could avoid large scale conflict they would.
But again, politics, sometimes wars exist to fulfill another goal.

 

[trembli0s]

NWO and increased globalization at gun point, no thanks. How Xi can say this, when he's planting missiles and dredging islands to put military installations, without laughing is impressive.

 

[PdotMichael]

It was just a question of time when we are having Marco Polo's China back. The fact that we are lived through a time where China wasn't a dominating power was rather the exception of the rule than anything else.

 

[Forerunner]

No thanks China.

 

[always crazy bacon]

And how racially diverse is China?

Not very, difficult to get a green card.

 

[Cidd]

And so it begins...

 

[Valhelm]

And how racially diverse is China?

China is much more multicultural than the US but also less pluralistic. Our ideas about race don't really apply to this setting, but a lot of Chinese ethnic groups (Tibetans, the Miao people) are racialized in a way similar to African Americans.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

We're getting closer to Xi seizing absolute power in China aren't we?

 

[andythinkpad]

I think a lot of you are confusing what this is.

This is not a new world order to "rule them all", this is a competing standard, competing platform, and competing ISO.

Think of it as an alternate mobile payment option. Basically US was trying to get everybody in on the unified standard where US (and sometimes UN) is running the show. Here comes China, she is basically saying, "Nope, you can install multiple payment options on your phone and you can have different world orders and morality standards.

China has already built competing sets of financial institutions to compete with the World Bank, IMF, and the failed TPP. They are proved to be quite popular (AIIB). New political order is the next step to compete with the moral high ground with the US "America First" and the "MAGA" narratives.

If this goes well, you can expect China push RMB as real world currency, maybe 20 years down the road.

If you/your country is deeply entrenched in the America ecosystem, this NWO is not for you. This is for the developing 3rd world countries. Third world countries is an outdated term. I refer to use "The Global South."

 

[PdotMichael]

China is much more multicultural than the US but also less pluralistic. Our ideas about race don't really apply to this setting, but a lot of Chinese ethnic groups (Tibetans, the Miao people) are racialized in a way similar to African Americans.

The joke is that China has a history of turning people into Han Chinese. China is not less diverse cultural than places like Europe but they were capable of unifying most of the groups under one umbrella.

 

[Lonely1]

I think a lot of you are confusing what this is.

This is not a new world order to "rule them all", this is a competing standard, competing platform, and competing ISO.

Think of it as an alternate mobile payment option. Basically US was trying to get everybody in on the unified standard where US (and sometimes UN) is running the show. Here comes China, she is basically saying, "Nope, you can install multiple payment options on your phone and you can have different world orders and morality standards.

China has already built competing sets of financial institutions to compete with the World Bank, IMF, and the failed TPP. They are proved to be quite popular (AIIB). New political order is the next step to compete with the moral high ground with the US "America First" and the "MAGA" narratives.

If this goes well, you can expect China push RMB as real world currency, maybe 20 years down the road.

If you/your country is deeply entrenched in the America ecosystem, this NWO is not for you. This is for the developing 3rd world countries. Third world countries is an outdated term. I refer to use "The Global South."

What about Mexico, who despite being a close USA partner, is now being pushed away from it by the current administration?

 

[Ethranes]

I welcome China's help, the more that we can distance ourselves from America is a positive thing.

 

[andythinkpad]

What about Mexico, who despite being a close USA partner, is now being pushed away from it by the current administration?

Geography dictates that Mexico has to put up with America's crap.

 

[Micael]

Even if we assume the USA is going to continue to be a country that is less than sane, I would still take the EU over the China any day, although truth be told I would take the EU over the USA even before Trump came into power.

Funny seeing how lots of people in this thread making a comment as if China has been rich since forever. They just start industrial revolution merely 30+ years ago. What you are seeing now is the progression of Capitalism which is still going on. Most Chinese labour still live in poor condition because China is still a developing country, it's simple as that. But it doesn't mean their people will keep being poor for the next 30 years. The amount of people who get out of poverty and join middle class in the past decades should indicate that. And it is just a matter of time before majority of the Chinese can enjoy that.

Of course China leading the world now is a bit premature and they are not yet ready for that. But unfortunately US doesn't seems want to do that anymore, and so the job is passed onto the next one.

Things aren't quite so simple though, their economy might seem big when one looks at something like their GPD, however one also needs to take into account that their population levels are far far higher than any other country, so just looking at the size of their economy isn't enough.

Right now China has less than 1/3 of the GDP of the west (just including the EU and USA here), while having close to 2x the population, for their citizens to reach a level of wealth close to the west, they can't merely match the economy of the west, they need to far surpass it, and to accomplish that is not going to be an easy task given that a lot of their growth was fueled by cheap labor, something that can't continue as they transition.

On the bright side they do have Macau and Hong Kong which are examples of economies under Chinese rule that are far more western like, but until very recently they weren't exactly fully Chinese either.

 

[dramatis]

I agree with this, but also China will evolve its culture over the next few decades to adhere to more global human rights standards. In my opinion though, a lot of the classic Chinese philosophy and culture is the highest level of human (nature) rights, but the current state of the Chinese citizen is not the same as back in the Tang dynasty or during the cultural golden period of China. So, in a way, I agree with the current narrative that the Chinese government is setting, working towards a more civilized society is the slogan you will find throughout China.

I disagree with much of classic Chinese philosophy being of the highest level of human rights. Certainly women and men were not viewed as equals for most of Chinese history. The prevailing philosophies generally favored order with men at the top. More exceptional women usually had their history written out or not preserved, while powerful women that could not be ignored were villified by later historians. That is not counting ethnic problems over the centuries.

The strength of that patriarchal cultural philsopohy dribbles down to today even in places far from China.

Aside from ethnic and gender worries, I think more problematic for China is the culture of materialism that sprung up out of this drastic change into a wealth-driven society. I used to think that eventually enough of the population would be educated enough to where the government would enter transitional democracy, but with Brexit and Trump, it's hard to believe that 'progress is inevitable' anymore.

 

[jax]

Was this before or after he shut out N Korea?

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

I'd rather the EU takes the lead. The are the only ones that can claim the title of Moral Power, which is important on the world stage.

No they can't and no it isn't.

You are delusional if you think a world power can be moral or innocent.

Besides the EU is a fractured mess of different countries with aging populations that's slipping further and further into nationalism.

They will never lead anything.

 

[Valhelm]

We're getting closer to Xi seizing absolute power in China aren't we?

That's a real possibility. There's no indication that Xi Jinping will step outside the legal bounds of his position as president, but the upcoming election within the Communist Party will probably give him and his supporters full control of the Chinese government. If this happens, Xi Jinping becomes the most powerful person on the planet. He'd have nearly as much power within his country as Putin, and have nearly as much economic and military authority as Trump.

The election could also go the other way. The right-wing liberals who want nothing other than more capitalism could take power. It's also possible that the progressive New Left, who push for greater democracy and universal basic income, might assume some influence. Because of the secret nature of Chinese politics, there's no way to know until it happens.

 

[dragonelite]

Funny seeing how lots of people in this thread making a comment as if China has been rich since forever. They just start industrial revolution merely 30+ years ago. What you are seeing now is the progression of Capitalism which is still going on. Most Chinese labour still live in poor condition because China is still a developing country, it's simple as that. But it doesn't mean their people will keep being poor for the next 30 years. The amount of people who get out of poverty and join middle class in the past decades should indicate that. And it is just a matter of time before majority of the Chinese can enjoy that.

Of course China leading the world now is a bit premature and they are not yet ready for that. But unfortunately US doesn't seems want to do that anymore, and so the job is passed onto the next one.

Isn't the Chinese middle class bigger then the total population of the US?

 

[jimmypython]

Years of propaganda (from USSR times) has rendered US and everything US related an enemy. Even today, Chinese people don't trust its government still for some reason don't question when it comes to demonizing everything US - a very twisted logic indeed.

To the subject of this thread, historically a government that is not represented/elected by the people gaining too much power and influence on the world stage is always bad news.

 

[PdotMichael]

Years of propaganda (from USSR times) has rendered US and everything US related an enemy. Even today, Chinese people don't trust its government still for some reason don't question when it comes to demonizing the US - a very twisted logic indeed.

To the subject of this thread, historically a government that is not represented/elected by the people is always bad news to anything.

What USSR propaganda? You know there were things like the Sino-Soviet split, the Sino-Soviet boarder conflict, China got closer to the USA and stuff like the One China policy happened..

Your post showcases a high level of ignorance.

 

[shintoki]

because they don't actually have to live it

Judging from the last thread with the person swearing China has been leading the world. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a few people believing that shit or honestly, nationals from there. Basically the American equalivent of Beritbert

I would like to see the EU take charge, not a country whose human rights reports was, "Senior Chinese leaders, perceiving a threat to their power, now explicitly reject the universality of human rights, characterizing these ideas as ”foreign infiltration," and penalizing those who promote them. Freedoms of expression and religion, already limited, were hit particularly hard in 2015 by several restrictive new measures."

Linkage

You're talking about the country that Trump touches himself at night about. All the media has to be "pro-government". The government can detain people and nothing can be done about it. Literally, they don't even need to do the shit Trump is doing. There is no need for "alt" facts or saying CNN is fake news. It's either approved by the government or not.

And for the people saying they'll improve. They'll improve along the lines of the Republican party. They've regressed in nearly every regard. We're talking about a country who is offended and wants to put sanctions on others who acknowledge Taiwan, Tibet, etc.

Speaking, but a Chinese lead world is basically exactly what Trump says and wants, with them just as edger as he is for a fight. I totally expect China to do something in the next 5 to 10 years to start shitting the pot.

The EU is our only hope right now unless America gets its head out of it's ass. I mean, the fact we can express this in the US already creates a massive divide between the two.

 

[ebullientprism]

I would love to see what the general opinion of the Chinese being world leaders is in different countries around the world. I would bet money that most people who dislike the idea are either from the US or UK. And I would bet a significant portion of the world population wouldnt mind the Chinese being the leaders of the world, if someone must absolutely lead it and call the shots.

Cause the rest of the world isnt exactly enamored with how the US has lead it so far.

"The US was the overwhelming choice (24% of respondents) for the country that represents the greatest threat to peace in the world today. This was followed by Pakistan (8%), China (6%), North Korea, Israel and Iran (5%). Respondents in Russia (54%), China (49%) and Bosnia (49%) were the most fearful of the US as a threat."

Oh and this was Pre Trump under Obama. Its kinda telling when even your allies think you are a threat to the peace of the world.

 

[jimmypython]

What USSR propaganda? You know there were things like the Sino-Soviet split, the Sino-Soviet boarder conflict, China got closer to the USA and stuff like the One China policy happened..

Your post showcases a high level of ignorance.

Sure.

 

[Lostconfused]

Cause the rest of the world isnt exactly enamored with how the US has lead it so far.

Poland with the lone call out for Russia.